Poor DH's, They are the middle child. I know it's still early but from the looks of things DH's are still utterly fucked. In fact they maybe more so. Again I know it's early so things might change
Poor DH's, They are the middle child. I know it's still early but from the looks of things DH's are still utterly fucked. In fact they maybe more so. Again I know it's early so things might change
Why do you say that? Most of their damage skills have been buffed and resource costs reduced. The only nerf I really saw was to shadow power which I agree with.
Poor DH's, They are the middle child. I know it's still early but from the looks of things DH's are still utterly fucked. In fact they maybe more so. Again I know it's early so things might change
I'm not sure if DH's are fucked as you said, because IMO DHs are the most balance class right now, so after they'll "fix" the other classes they should all feel similar plus the new loot will also help.
hmm changes to the DH are not what I imagine and some of them seem like nerf... but I gues that now that we won't have op builds like WotB, Archon wizard or CM wizard everything will be more equal between classes... So let's see everything looks interesting.
Great work guys! and ty for the info.
Well my take was that they did nerf the DH - which I find almost shocking since I basically abandoned mine at P41 for a new WD I built for considerably less cost (not that I ever had much gold) but was able to get to MP7 pretty quickly whereas my DH could never effectively get past MP3. I'm no expert player but it's pretty well agreed DH is currently the most borked class.
I went in to the read expecting to see more buffs but it's definitely a mixed bag, maybe even a nerf in total.
I'd also say they're trying to cut crit chance percentages in half - no more 70+% crit chance builds I think.
Poor DH's, They are the middle child. I know it's still early but from the looks of things DH's are still utterly fucked. In fact they maybe more so. Again I know it's early so things might change
I'm not sure if DH's are fucked as you said, because IMO DHs are the most balance class right now, so after they'll "fix" the other classes they should all feel similar plus the new loot will also help.
Poor DH's, They are the middle child. I know it's still early but from the looks of things DH's are still utterly fucked. In fact they maybe more so. Again I know it's early so things might change
Why do you say that? Most of their damage skills have been buffed and resource costs reduced. The only nerf I really saw was to shadow power which I agree with.
hmm changes to the DH are not what I imagine and some of them seem like nerf... but I gues that now that we won't have op builds like WotB, Archon wizard or CM wizard everything will be more equal between classes... So let's see everything looks interesting.
Great work guys! and ty for the info.
Well my take was that they did nerf the DH - which I find almost shocking since I basically abandoned mine at P41 for a new WD I built for considerably less cost (not that I ever had much gold) but was able to get to MP7 pretty quickly whereas my DH could never effectively get past MP3. I'm no expert player but it's pretty well agreed DH is currently the most borked class.
I went in to the read expecting to see more buffs but it's definitely a mixed bag, maybe even a nerf in total.
I'd also say they're trying to cut crit chance percentages in half - no more 70+% crit chance builds I think.
My main is a DH and I'm one of those that hate shadow power(it's a crutch) so I never used it. Having said that I know that some things got buffed but I also know that somethings got nerfed. My main concern is of our survival skills in relation to our offensive skills. As it stands now I can solo MP 10 without using gloom but because of our lack of good cc, defense, and having wet noodle skills it's just a pain to play in relation to other classes. Don't get me wrong i'm not raging at all because I know this info is flimsy and it subject to change. I just hope they equalize all the classes as much as they can.
^Perhaps its your build then. I never had survability problems with my DH although I ran 60k life and 550 AR. Problem with DHs is they're low farm speed, and seems like they're buffing that with the damage increases.
^Perhaps its your build then. I never had survability problems with my DH although I ran 60k life and 550 AR. Problem with DHs is they're low farm speed, and seems like they're buffing that with the damage increases.
I never had surviability issues either lol, and you just confirmed my statement. I think we are on the same page. To be more clear I just hated how gloom was such a far better defensive ability than anything stand alone(skill wise). My hope is they bring our other cc and defenses up to par to it while also increasing our offensive capabilities(they are off to a good start). I would just like DH's to be just as viable and efficient as the other classes.
Infinite WotB, Infinite Fury regen and Infinite Archon were all very broken mechanics and I'm glad to see them go. There's just no way to balance the game when strats like that exist. Only thing missing is a Critical Mass nerf.
^Perhaps its your build then. I never had survability problems with my DH although I ran 60k life and 550 AR. Problem with DHs is they're low farm speed, and seems like they're buffing that with the damage increases.
I never had surviability issues either lol, and you just confirmed my statement. I think we are on the same page. To be more clear I just hated how gloom was such a far better defensive ability than anything stand alone(skill wise). My hope is they bring our other cc and defenses up to par to it while also increasing our offensive capabilities(they are off to a good start). I would just like DH's to be just as viable and efficient as the other classes.
Gotcha, I read your post wrong. I just dont understand what you're worried about then. We agree that gloom was op and made it pretty much a mandatory skill, they are slightly nerfing it, we agree that DH need harder hitting skills, they are buffing that.
Seriously, people really need to understand the disclaimer there. None of these are final, and some are probably only there for "testing purposes". This is like a pre-alpha build of those changes.
We will only know what really changed when they release patch notes. And only know if it was for the best or the worst after actually playing with the changes.
Gloom got nerfed but so did all the other life steal skills, it's a good change. Kinda weird that Bombardment got buffed though since it's already one of the best skills.
WotB / crazy-fast-barbs-no-one-can-catch-up-to and Archon nerfs are great, but CM is unchanged as well as all the CM skills? WTF. Blizzard please.
^Perhaps its your build then. I never had survability problems with my DH although I ran 60k life and 550 AR. Problem with DHs is they're low farm speed, and seems like they're buffing that with the damage increases.
I never had surviability issues either lol, and you just confirmed my statement. I think we are on the same page. To be more clear I just hated how gloom was such a far better defensive ability than anything stand alone(skill wise). My hope is they bring our other cc and defenses up to par to it while also increasing our offensive capabilities(they are off to a good start). I would just like DH's to be just as viable and efficient as the other classes.
Gotcha, I read your post wrong. I just dont understand what you're worried about then. We agree that gloom was op and made it pretty much a mandatory skill, they are slightly nerfing it, we agree that DH need harder hitting skills, they are buffing that.
I'm worried that, because this is data mined info that none of this is set in stone.
My hope is that they make the DH equal to other classes in game.
To sum up everything what I'm saying is; Blizzard please don't screw the DH.
Because after all, this is data mined info and subject to change. Just what ever you decide to do Blizz please make the DH shine.
Seriously, people really need to understand the disclaimer there. None of these are final, and some are probably only there for "testing purposes". This is like a pre-alpha build of those changes.
We will only know what really changed when they release patch notes. And only know if it was for the best or the worst after actually playing with the changes.
I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.
Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.
As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)
I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.
I didn't get your point. You say the Shadow Power change is uncalled for? Btw, it's not really a number change. It's a concept change.
Giving a character the ability to have an on-demand 15% lifesteal is problematic. Because except for Barbs (which can get 9% lifesteal, or I guess could ;)), classes like the Wizard and WD will never come even close to that sort of sustain. It also means that class doesn't need to care about any sustain in gear, and pretty much all that matters is getting enough Discipline to keep that up all the time.
Shadow Power was obviously designed as a "burst heal", not as an "infinite sustain" that outshadows all other Discipline abilities. That concept didn't work. And the %-based Sustain neither.
Maybe they're trying something new. We don't know what was discussed internally. Can't say I totally disagree with them for wanting to mix things up.
Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.
Having a hard time understanding this part. As I said, it's not even a "math" change. It's a concept change. 800+ Life on Hit is significant, and we don't even know what they're doing with proc ratios. So really? No room for debate or explanations? At all?
As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)
You mean the Attack Speed change shouldn't have happened?
Also, I didn't mean: "do not criticize any change whatsoever". If you're against the Shadow Power change, discuss it, voice your opinion, say it's unreasonable, think of alternatives, try to prove how the skill isn't broken (you're gonna have a hard time with that one).
But there's no need to go overboard with the reactions.
My point was: we don't even know if these changes are gonna make it to a PTR/beta until they do. Big skill changes like this will very likely go through a PTR testing.And that's the adequate moment for strong and well informed feedback, not now.
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You're a wizard Harry.....
Why do you say that? Most of their damage skills have been buffed and resource costs reduced. The only nerf I really saw was to shadow power which I agree with.
I'm not sure if DH's are fucked as you said, because IMO DHs are the most balance class right now, so after they'll "fix" the other classes they should all feel similar plus the new loot will also help.
Well my take was that they did nerf the DH - which I find almost shocking since I basically abandoned mine at P41 for a new WD I built for considerably less cost (not that I ever had much gold) but was able to get to MP7 pretty quickly whereas my DH could never effectively get past MP3. I'm no expert player but it's pretty well agreed DH is currently the most borked class.
I went in to the read expecting to see more buffs but it's definitely a mixed bag, maybe even a nerf in total.
I'd also say they're trying to cut crit chance percentages in half - no more 70+% crit chance builds I think.
My main is a DH and I'm one of those that hate shadow power(it's a crutch) so I never used it. Having said that I know that some things got buffed but I also know that somethings got nerfed. My main concern is of our survival skills in relation to our offensive skills. As it stands now I can solo MP 10 without using gloom but because of our lack of good cc, defense, and having wet noodle skills it's just a pain to play in relation to other classes. Don't get me wrong i'm not raging at all because I know this info is flimsy and it subject to change. I just hope they equalize all the classes as much as they can.
You're a wizard Harry.....
I never had surviability issues either lol, and you just confirmed my statement. I think we are on the same page. To be more clear I just hated how gloom was such a far better defensive ability than anything stand alone(skill wise). My hope is they bring our other cc and defenses up to par to it while also increasing our offensive capabilities(they are off to a good start). I would just like DH's to be just as viable and efficient as the other classes.
You're a wizard Harry.....
Gotcha, I read your post wrong. I just dont understand what you're worried about then. We agree that gloom was op and made it pretty much a mandatory skill, they are slightly nerfing it, we agree that DH need harder hitting skills, they are buffing that.
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Wise ElderWe will only know what really changed when they release patch notes. And only know if it was for the best or the worst after actually playing with the changes.
WotB / crazy-fast-barbs-no-one-can-catch-up-to and Archon nerfs are great, but CM is unchanged as well as all the CM skills? WTF. Blizzard please.
I'm worried that, because this is data mined info that none of this is set in stone.
My hope is that they make the DH equal to other classes in game.
To sum up everything what I'm saying is; Blizzard please don't screw the DH.
Because after all, this is data mined info and subject to change. Just what ever you decide to do Blizz please make the DH shine.
You're a wizard Harry.....
Some good feels, man.
Seriously, people really need to understand the disclaimer there. None of these are final, and some are probably only there for "testing purposes". This is like a pre-alpha build of those changes.
We will only know what really changed when they release patch notes. And only know if it was for the best or the worst after actually playing with the changes.
I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.
Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.
As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)
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Wise ElderHahaha, perfect. So many of my barb friends are panic selling their gear. Silly, silly.
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Also, changing weaponthrow to a furygenerator = brilliant.
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Wise ElderI didn't get your point. You say the Shadow Power change is uncalled for? Btw, it's not really a number change. It's a concept change.
Giving a character the ability to have an on-demand 15% lifesteal is problematic. Because except for Barbs (which can get 9% lifesteal, or I guess could ;)), classes like the Wizard and WD will never come even close to that sort of sustain. It also means that class doesn't need to care about any sustain in gear, and pretty much all that matters is getting enough Discipline to keep that up all the time.
Shadow Power was obviously designed as a "burst heal", not as an "infinite sustain" that outshadows all other Discipline abilities. That concept didn't work. And the %-based Sustain neither.
Maybe they're trying something new. We don't know what was discussed internally. Can't say I totally disagree with them for wanting to mix things up.
Having a hard time understanding this part. As I said, it's not even a "math" change. It's a concept change. 800+ Life on Hit is significant, and we don't even know what they're doing with proc ratios. So really? No room for debate or explanations? At all?
You mean the Attack Speed change shouldn't have happened?
Also, I didn't mean: "do not criticize any change whatsoever". If you're against the Shadow Power change, discuss it, voice your opinion, say it's unreasonable, think of alternatives, try to prove how the skill isn't broken (you're gonna have a hard time with that one).
But there's no need to go overboard with the reactions.
My point was: we don't even know if these changes are gonna make it to a PTR/beta until they do. Big skill changes like this will very likely go through a PTR testing. And that's the adequate moment for strong and well informed feedback, not now.