I think everyone understands the disclaimer. I think people also understand there is a process to tuning abilities. So when there's drastic changes like the shadow power one, which is not an appropriate number, people will call them on it for even thinking that was a valid number for testing.
I didn't get your point. You say the Shadow Power change is uncalled for? Btw, it's not really a number change. It's a concept change.
I never said it was uncalled for. If you had read any of my previous posts I said it could use a changing. Also while it's a concept change in your eyes. It's a numbers shift in mine, I've already said 3% life steal = 900+ life on hit ala item budget, it's actually 956 if we're being specific. The idea is to regen hp while attacking enemies. That didn't change.
As I've already said they could be removing life steal entirely since all life steal abilities have a LOH or an absorb effect now. But this doesn't address the issue of the gear scaling and how useless even 800 life on hit is now vs 3% life steal.
Giving a character the ability to have an on-demand 15% lifesteal is problematic. Because except for Barbs (which can get 9% lifesteal, or I guess could ;)), classes like the Wizard and WD will never come even close to that sort of sustain. It also means that class doesn't need to care about any sustain in gear, and pretty much all that matters is getting enough Discipline to keep that up all the time.
DH defense is shit compared to wizard and barb. Things that are frozen can't hit you, also having a 40% armor + resist bonus is huge. I'm not saying they should nerf wizard or barb, but demon hunters have always been awful in the ehp department. DH's need better defense, not less of it. It's been that way since day 1.
DH's don't have the highest dmg but have the worst EHP. If they are suppose to kite they should hit harder than witch doctors. But instead WD can just face tank anything with good gear and only 3% lifesteal.
Math doesn't leave room for debate, feelings or opinions. Again unless they change the coefficients for demon hunter to something ridiculously high, like 4-6x , this number is way off for practical testing purposes. So the only way that their judgment wouldn't be rightfully ridiculed.. would be if they just randomly typed in a number.
Having a hard time understanding this part. As I said, it's not even a "math" change. It's a concept change. 800+ Life on Hit is significant, and we don't even know what they're doing with proc ratios. So really? No room for debate or explanations? At all?
We know what the proc rates are currently and as far as we know they have not changed. So it's definitely room for concern.
As an aside. I'd rather be the guy that jumped the gun and made a case for something that didn't need one. Rather than say nothing and watch the change come to pass, because of lack of foresight on their part. (i.e. attack speed values @ launch)
You mean the Attack Speed change shouldn't have happened?
No I mean it should have never made it live to begin with. I thought I was pretty clear. I was saying they demonstrated a huge lack of foresight. I also insinuated that they are very capable of doing it again. Hence my concern.
Also, I didn't mean: "do not criticize any change whatsoever". If you're against the Shadow Power change, discuss it, voice your opinion, say it's unreasonable, think of alternatives, try to prove how the skill isn't broken (you're gonna have a hard time with that one).
But there's no need to go overboard with the reactions.
It could use a change and I've already shown that 3% life steal is 956 loh in terms of budget. I've also stated in MP7 gear 3% life steal is significantly better than 956 loh. This is essentially reducing shadow power to less than 10% of it's current power, rendering it useless in any form.
So just so we're clear 15% -> 3% -> 800 loh = worse scaling
RoS= stat inflation 3x over at the very least. 800 life on hit then is like 266 loh on now, which is less than 1% life leech now.
Does it all make sense now? They are nerfing the effectiveness of shadow powers purpose to about 1/15 of what it was. Hopefully it does change and it probably will. But I really question why even start there, it's not efficient.
The number is WAY too low. The end.
My point was: we don't even know if these changes are gonna make it to a PTR/beta until they do. Big skill changes like this will very likely go through a PTR testing.And that's the adequate moment for strong and well informed feedback, not now.
I am questioning their rationale. Since you need to have a reason to change something and an idea of the direction you want to go. So unless they randomly put a number there, their methods have issues. If a person is willing to nerf or buff something by over 1000%, even as a test, they have little foresight. I mean unless their goal is to see how useless or mandatory an ability becomes.
Build your DH correctly and you wont have any ehp problems. I face tanked everything on my dh. Gloom was correctly nerfed as it was way too op compared to any other dh ability that it made it a mandatory skill. They are nefing LS across the board it seems for all classes, so a 15% LS skill is way too powerful and needs to go. Bringing gloom down to 25% damage reduction does not make it useless by any means.
Besides that, they are buffing nearly every damage skill and reducing its its resource cost.
Did no one else notice this? or has it been confirmed elsewhere that there is another gem being added?
Gain 0 resistance to all elements for every different color gem socketed into your gear. / If you have 5 different color gems socketed into your gear, you gain another 0 resistance to all elements.
If i remember correctly, there were 5 gems considered originally, the 5th being Sapphire which gave life steal. If they are removing life steal away from skills it could be that they are adding this gem which will make up for lost life steal.(even though that would mean less damage overall)
Did no one else notice this? or has it been confirmed elsewhere that there is another gem being added?
Gain 0 resistance to all elements for every different color gem socketed into your gear. / If you have 5 different color gems socketed into your gear, you gain another 0 resistance to all elements.
If i remember correctly, there were 5 gems considered originally, the 5th being Sapphire which gave life steal. If they are removing life steal away from skills it could be that they are adding this gem which will make up for lost life steal.(even though that would mean less damage overall)
They are adding a Diamond gem, which if I remember correctly gives you all resist, and reduces cooldowns in helmets. But this could change also.
I see the DH changes as a huge nerf myself, as my DH build gets close up to the mobs, if they moved the changes to live right now my build wouldnt work on mp1 at all (i dont have good gear but i can do up to mp4/5 as it is)
Even with the damage boost on the skills for the DH, they will be forcing people to get life steal on a manticore, which will lower the overall damage making the damage adjustments on the skills worthless. (if you get lifesteal you wont get the % damage or the extra socket)
or if they move life steal to a gem or socketable, it will still lower the damage and make the damage boosts on the skills useless.
just my take on the DH changes
EDIT:
I also thing one of the underlying problems with the DH is that its the only class that doesnt have defence.
Now what i mean by this is:
The barb has the damage reduction for being melee and other things to reduce/boost all res.
The monk has the damage reduction for being melee and other stuff.
The wizzard's main stat is Int which gives All res. this allows the wizzard to get some high all res.
The WD's main stat is Int which gives all res, same with thing as the wizzard. Most WD's i see doing mp10 have like 700 all res.
Now the DH has a main stat of Dex, which give only gives dodge chance.
All the other classes get usefull bonuses. The DH gets nothing, but a "Chance" to dodge, which in theory might be a good thing, but in the game its not.
I know the DH is soposed to be used to "kite" but how can you kite when you are getting knocked back, jailed, walled in, sucked to the monster, stunned, or eve the monster telelports to you. In all its good theory.
tl:dr Core issue of the DH is no defence. and kiting cant exist in a game when monsters can pull/wall/jail/stun/teleport.
Anybody else feeling like using Deadly Reach might lead to some awkward situations?
Deadly Reach Generate: 67 Spirit per attack / Project lines of pure force over a short distance for 110% weapon damage. as Physical. / Every third hit extends 25 yardshas a 30% chance to knock up enemies.
I see the DH changes as a huge nerf myself, as my DH build gets close up to the mobs, if they moved the changes to live right now my build wouldnt work on mp1 at all (i dont have good gear but i can do up to mp4/5 as it is)
Even with the damage boost on the skills for the DH, they will be forcing people to get life steal on a manticore, which will lower the overall damage making the damage adjustments on the skills worthless. (if you get lifesteal you wont get the % damage or the extra socket)
or if they move life steal to a gem or socketable, it will still lower the damage and make the damage boosts on the skills useless.
just my take on the DH changes
EDIT:
I also thing one of the underlying problems with the DH is that its the only class that doesnt have defence.
Now what i mean by this is:
The barb has the damage reduction for being melee and other things to reduce/boost all res.
The monk has the damage reduction for being melee and other stuff.
The wizzard's main stat is Int which gives All res. this allows the wizzard to get some high all res.
The WD's main stat is Int which gives all res, same with thing as the wizzard. Most WD's i see doing mp10 have like 700 all res.
Now the DH has a main stat of Dex, which give only gives dodge chance.
All the other classes get usefull bonuses. The DH gets nothing, but a "Chance" to dodge, which in theory might be a good thing, but in the game its not.
I know the DH is soposed to be used to "kite" but how can you kite when you are getting knocked back, jailed, walled in, sucked to the monster, stunned, or eve the monster telelports to you. In all its good theory.
tl:dr Core issue of the DH is no defence. and kiting cant exist in a game when monsters can pull/wall/jail/stun/teleport.
... you do have Smoke Screen and Vault, you know. You can Vault clear of TPs, vortex, frozen, and SS out of Jailer and Knockback's slow. No other class has such good CC breaking on low-to-no cooldowns. Yes, it costs Disc - but with Gloom and Punishment nerfed out of "mandatory", you might try spending your disc there, not relying on snapshots and actually using Hatred builders. You'll even have a big burst heal rune for SS.
Build your DH correctly and you wont have any ehp problems. I face tanked everything on my dh. Gloom was correctly nerfed as it was way too op compared to any other dh ability that it made it a mandatory skill. They are nefing LS across the board it seems for all classes, so a 15% LS skill is way too powerful and needs to go. Bringing gloom down to 25% damage reduction does not make it useless by any means.
Besides that, they are buffing nearly every damage skill and reducing its its resource cost.
I stopped playing my demon hunter back in June/July of last year with nearly 500 hours played. But I'm pretty sure I'm one of few demon hunters who had 680 res all,800 physical resist, 2.8% ll, 70k + hp, 4500 armor and 120k dps without ss in June of last year. This is when the majority didn't have 120k dps with sharpshooter and the ones that did had about 30k hp and 200 resist.
@Everyone who cries about Shadowpower nerf or ignores how nearly all %LL abilities got removed.
1. %LL might get so broken in the addon(well it alrdy is now) that every mob would need to nearly oneshot everyone so they would take dmg.
2.%LL will get phased out(even from item's) and our mainsustain will be 1) Healthregen 2) Healthglobe's 3) Health on hit 4) Shield's and at the same time enemy dmg will get lowered to a point where they can kill us without the need to oneshot us.
I already assumed they were going the same route as they did with consoles. Which is health globes are much more valuable. However, you're failing to realize that in itself nerfs shadow power even more so. If the majority of healing comes from globes, then there's no reason to have a minute amount of loh for 1 skill slot.
What they should do is go with their original plan with shadow power where it increased the attack speed. Then again they could make gloom default shadow power and spice up the runes a bit more. Either way it has to either be reworked completely or they need to buff the loh. Otherwise it will never be used.
Probably. Here's an interesting read on the topic.
Wyatt: I agree that if we cut incoming damage and healing rates in half, players would run with half as much EHP, like you predict. So we can’t just go in there, make that change, and expect everything to be okay. I like the way you broke things into EHP and Sustain, it’s a good way to look at the problem.
I think that framework also hints at a potential solution too. We need to look at ways to test both your character’s Sustainability as well as your EHP. Melee classes already experience a good deal of this, which is why they were the first to adopt Life On Hit when the game first came out. As a melee class you are constantly taking melee damage from enemies, so your sustain is tested every second.
Right now we don’t have many ways to stress the EHP of the ranged classes without it feeling bursty. I think this is because the game has an plethora of “Do the right thing and take 0 damage, do the wrong thing and take 100K damage”. Since the outcomes are so binary, the correct way to build a ranged class is to try to do the right thing as often as you can, and maybe build enough survivability so you can make a mistake once in a while.
What I think we need more of is “Do the right thing and take 20K damage, do the wrong thing and take 80K damage”. You’re still trying to do the right thing, but you’re still taking damage either way. Besides, Sanctuary is a dangerous, violent and hazardous place – some amount of damage comes with the territory. When I play, I want to feel stress on my EHP and my Sustainability while still feeling satisfied for making smart plays. I also want to value incremental survivability choices I make on my gear and my skill build.
P.S. LpSS scales with attack speed too since you get more attacks per second which translates into more spirit generation.
Well if you can’t depend on health globes for healing when you need them most, wouldn’t it make sense, as a player, to instead build around one of the life regen affixes like LS or LoH instead? If LoH or lifesteal are strong enough to cover a 30-second gap in health globes, they’ll be way more than enough to sustain yourself through the trash.
It just seems that the inevitable outcome is that health globes become the secondary source of healing instead of the primary source.
Wyatt: Yes. I think your analysis is correct. I think your assessment is why healing from health globes feel marginalized in the current live game at high levels of play.
One possible solution would be if you weren’t starved for 30 seconds on the elite. Like if the elite dropped a health globe every 20% health, then you’d get a health globe every 6 seconds while fighting this high health elite.
TL;DR Lifesteal is too strong of a stat, they didn't like it going into diablo 3 which is why it was nerfed from what it was in diablo 2. However, that just delays the inevitable when gear improves. As you can see by looking at June of last year to June of this year. Where items were considered trash with lifesteal instead of loh. Now it's completely the other way around.
So they are going to make the primary source of healing - health globes. Life from spirit/fury spent will be buffed and minor loh and absorbs look to be the secondary source of healing.
The idea that the runes shift the elemental types of the various skills and that wizard builds deal with boosting elemental damage is exactly what I was hoping for. I would imagine this is just the first pass of the changes, for all classes. For wizards still needing attention is:
-- Blizzard. If it doesn't stack, you can't design a build around it. Hopefully at least one rune that lets it stack.
-- Hydra. One hydra is just not enough. Note that legendary wand has been changed to say it allows "1 more hydra to be cast". Hopefully that means default is something like 3 hydra and the wand makes it 4.
-- Archon. Perma archon is dead (yeah!). But if Archon is the oh sh!t button it needs some work. It excels at killing lots of little things, but needs to really be better at elites and champs, not tons of trash mobs--rarely do you need help with those. Additionally if it only lasts 15 sec, runes like slow time (20 sec cooldown, 15 sec duration) make little sense.
-- CM. Clearly something needs to be done to CM.
As a final note, the change to Power Hungry could be excellent, if health globes drop more regularly as Wyatt suggested. Instead of providing no benefit when near or full AP, you can bank a ton of AP with this now. I can imagine meteor builds in particular where you cast frequent meteors that cost 0 AP.
... you do have Smoke Screen and Vault, you know. You can Vault clear of TPs, vortex, frozen, and SS out of Jailer and Knockback's slow. No other class has such good CC breaking on low-to-no cooldowns. Yes, it costs Disc - but with Gloom and Punishment nerfed out of "mandatory", you might try spending your disc there, not relying on snapshots and actually using Hatred builders. You'll even have a big burst heal rune for SS.
It is still the core problem with the DH. SS and vault are okay but they are useless if thats all your doing in a fight. many a time i have vaulted away just to get sucked back in and killed. And if you have to use both in a build, that means something is wrong and it would also make it to where all you are doing is Vaulting or SS'ing half the time, slowing down the clear time to agonizingly slow times.
I used to use Vault but i have taken a liking to using caltrops in my Strafe build for the extra 10% crit chance. The vault was actually hurting my build. when i actually used it to get away id lose the charge up on strafe and would not have enough disc to use shadow power. I like my build but these changes would ruin it.
DH is the only class without inherit defense in the stats or damage reduction. Yeah they should take less damage as they are so posed to be farther away from the fights, but that's never the case is it? If you are soloing mp10 will you always be far away from the mobs? Yeah vault and SS make it so you an escape but they just drain your disc for other things and making your fighting time less.
the way i see it, LS/gloom/perfectionist are all ways put in to make the defenses of the DH a tad bit better. removing LS removes the DH's defense slightly. Now if you want to Vault and SS around all day running from monsters kiting and taking a hour+ to do fields, then go do so.
I dont see the Punishment change as a nerf, more of a balance, and i honestly didnt really use gloom until lately, ive done fine without it, instead ive used night bane for longer Strafes. but then again ive never gone out of mp4/5 (mostly due to im poor)
Anybody else feeling like using Deadly Reach might lead to some awkward situations?
Deadly Reach Generate: 67 Spirit per attack / Project lines of pure force over a short distance for 110% weapon damage. as Physical. / Every third hit extends 25 yardshas a 30% chance to knock up enemies.
Yep me too. Can't wait to knock up some succubi. Also by the wording, I think the range of all three strikes are the same now.
I'm waiting for Boot Armor to increase the damage of the 3rd strike of Deadly Reach.
... you do have Smoke Screen and Vault, you know. You can Vault clear of TPs, vortex, frozen, and SS out of Jailer and Knockback's slow. No other class has such good CC breaking on low-to-no cooldowns. Yes, it costs Disc - but with Gloom and Punishment nerfed out of "mandatory", you might try spending your disc there, not relying on snapshots and actually using Hatred builders. You'll even have a big burst heal rune for SS.
It is still the core problem with the DH. SS and vault are okay but they are useless if thats all your doing in a fight. many a time i have vaulted away just to get sucked back in and killed. And if you have to use both in a build, that means something is wrong and it would also make it to where all you are doing is Vaulting or SS'ing half the time, slowing down the clear time to agonizingly slow times.
I used to use Vault but i have taken a liking to using caltrops in my Strafe build for the extra 10% crit chance. The vault was actually hurting my build. when i actually used it to get away id lose the charge up on strafe and would not have enough disc to use shadow power. I like my build but these changes would ruin it.
DH is the only class without inherit defense in the stats or damage reduction. Yeah they should take less damage as they are so posed to be farther away from the fights, but that's never the case is it? If you are soloing mp10 will you always be far away from the mobs? Yeah vault and SS make it so you an escape but they just drain your disc for other things and making your fighting time less.
the way i see it, LS/gloom/perfectionist are all ways put in to make the defenses of the DH a tad bit better. removing LS removes the DH's defense slightly. Now if you want to Vault and SS around all day running from monsters kiting and taking a hour+ to do fields, then go do so.
I dont see the Punishment change as a nerf, more of a balance, and i honestly didnt really use gloom until lately, ive done fine without it, instead ive used night bane for longer Strafes. but then again ive never gone out of mp4/5 (mostly due to im poor)
But this is exactly what I'm saying. If you're not spending all your Disc on Shadow Power - say because you're using the Smoke Screen rune that gives 10% of your maximum life back over 1 second on activation - then interrupting your channel to Vault isn't as bad, because it doesn't mean "wasting" the Shadow Power snapshot. People might even try non-channeled hatred spenders, instead of the main choice being which RF rune, or maybe Emberstrafe or Stinging Steel. Furthermore, DHes are getting almost across-the-board buffs to their hatred spenders, lowering cost and raising damage. They're even making Echoing Blast baseline on Spike Trap (at the cost of some damage, but Scatter is scary DPS now). They're putting more "cannon" into DH's, and toning back some of their sustain options, so there are choices that aren't "facetank everything". And if you're in the mood to facetank, the new Brooding is kind of great for RF builds, giving you very strong life regen while stationary.
I'm not meaning you run from everything. But if TPs, vortexes, jailer or frozen is troubling you the way your post suggested, the DH has the best tools bar Thrive on Chaos right now to deal with those, and the patch is planning to make them better. Strafe builds, like non-permazerk Whirlwind builds, Tempest Rush or Dashing Strike monks, or Furious Charge spam builds, are naturally vulnerable to Jailer because they rely on a movement ability. It's the price you pay to get DPS while moving. Thrive on Chaos just let you ignore this price, so everyone got used to that as "reasonable". It isn't, permazerk is going away, and DH's can still break every jailer with one ability while monks, WD's, barbarians and wizards all have 16-second cooldowns at best on their snare breaks.
... you do have Smoke Screen and Vault, you know. You can Vault clear of TPs, vortex, frozen, and SS out of Jailer and Knockback's slow. No other class has such good CC breaking on low-to-no cooldowns. Yes, it costs Disc - but with Gloom and Punishment nerfed out of "mandatory", you might try spending your disc there, not relying on snapshots and actually using Hatred builders. You'll even have a big burst heal rune for SS.
It is still the core problem with the DH. SS and vault are okay but they are useless if thats all your doing in a fight. many a time i have vaulted away just to get sucked back in and killed. And if you have to use both in a build, that means something is wrong and it would also make it to where all you are doing is Vaulting or SS'ing half the time, slowing down the clear time to agonizingly slow times.
I used to use Vault but i have taken a liking to using caltrops in my Strafe build for the extra 10% crit chance. The vault was actually hurting my build. when i actually used it to get away id lose the charge up on strafe and would not have enough disc to use shadow power. I like my build but these changes would ruin it.
DH is the only class without inherit defense in the stats or damage reduction. Yeah they should take less damage as they are so posed to be farther away from the fights, but that's never the case is it? If you are soloing mp10 will you always be far away from the mobs? Yeah vault and SS make it so you an escape but they just drain your disc for other things and making your fighting time less.
the way i see it, LS/gloom/perfectionist are all ways put in to make the defenses of the DH a tad bit better. removing LS removes the DH's defense slightly. Now if you want to Vault and SS around all day running from monsters kiting and taking a hour+ to do fields, then go do so.
I dont see the Punishment change as a nerf, more of a balance, and i honestly didnt really use gloom until lately, ive done fine without it, instead ive used night bane for longer Strafes. but then again ive never gone out of mp4/5 (mostly due to im poor)
But this is exactly what I'm saying. If you're not spending all your Disc on Shadow Power - say because you're using the Smoke Screen rune that gives 10% of your maximum life back over 1 second on activation - then interrupting your channel to Vault isn't as bad, because it doesn't mean "wasting" the Shadow Power snapshot. People might even try non-channeled hatred spenders, instead of the main choice being which RF rune, or maybe Emberstrafe or Stinging Steel. Furthermore, DHes are getting almost across-the-board buffs to their hatred spenders, lowering cost and raising damage. They're even making Echoing Blast baseline on Spike Trap (at the cost of some damage, but Scatter is scary DPS now). They're putting more "cannon" into DH's, and toning back some of their sustain options, so there are choices that aren't "facetank everything". And if you're in the mood to facetank, the new Brooding is kind of great for RF builds, giving you very strong life regen while stationary.
I'm not meaning you run from everything. But if TPs, vortexes, jailer or frozen is troubling you the way your post suggested, the DH has the best tools bar Thrive on Chaos right now to deal with those, and the patch is planning to make them better. Strafe builds, like non-permazerk Whirlwind builds, Tempest Rush or Dashing Strike monks, or Furious Charge spam builds, are naturally vulnerable to Jailer because they rely on a movement ability. It's the price you pay to get DPS while moving. Thrive on Chaos just let you ignore this price, so everyone got used to that as "reasonable". It isn't, permazerk is going away, and DH's can still break every jailer with one ability while monks, WD's, barbarians and wizards all have 16-second cooldowns at best on their snare breaks.
The reason why i have these problems is because i have bad gear, and because of the lack of inherent defense. you keep saying SS and Vault are defense, they arnt. You can vault away and still get destroyed if you cant take the hits.
Okay ill put it this way, a WD can get up to 700 all res WITH 200k+ unbuffed DPS
a DH can get up to like what, 200k dps with 500ish All res for the same amount of gold?
unless they make up for the missing defense in class specific items, the DH will forever be garbage for mp10.
you will always take hits no matter how many times you vault or SS you will take damage. Kiting them will drag your clear time drastically. (If you want to kite things, go play Ezreal on League of Legends.)
I also explained with the LS nerf, the damages are still nerfed. since you have to make up for the lost LS, you gotta get it in the weapon. which you will lose either a socket or up to 50% weapon damage in the manticore's case. Which is a LOT of damage.
So basically this is a big screw you do DH's everywhere. As it is we NEEDED shadow power to survive on a gear equivelancy mp as the other classes. Now thats gone so what are we supposed to do? where is our actual defensive "oh crap i cant run anymore" ability? Dh's have needed a QOL improvement since the game launched, and now with the expac instead of actually helping dh's they are going to hinder our survivability. gunna feel like a fresh 60 all over again.
Why are people crying about the DH. Yes it needs a buff, and they got it. All the damage dealers have been buffed and resource costs lowered.
The only nerf is to shadow power which needed it for two reasons. One, it seems they're changing their philosphy on LS and nerfing it across the board for skills so that huge 15% LS had to go. Second, it was too good compared to any other defensive skill that it made it pretty much mandatory. Reducing to 25% DR instead of 35% isn't going to make the skill useless. It's still a great skill.
And DHs dont really have problems surviving on high mp if you build them right, they're problem is they dont have the damage output to farm. Note I said farm and not single target kill speed because they have that - my 346 unbuffed DH was able to down mp10 Ghom in 37 seconds which is comparable to other classes at the same unbuffed dps. They only have one real good farm skill on high mp and thats bombardment. blizz is solving this by buffing the damage dealers and reducing resource cost.
So they are removing life steal and instead give joke and NON-SCALING LoH/ life regen/ shield values that couldn't absorb a sneeze from current MP1 level 63 fallen. Yet they leave the defense skills gutted with high CDs forcing for example CM Wizards to be the way to go because you are going to be demon food otherwise.
They will prolly nerf monster damage too. And CM will most likely get the nerfbat as well.
Build your DH correctly and you wont have any ehp problems. I face tanked everything on my dh. Gloom was correctly nerfed as it was way too op compared to any other dh ability that it made it a mandatory skill. They are nefing LS across the board it seems for all classes, so a 15% LS skill is way too powerful and needs to go. Bringing gloom down to 25% damage reduction does not make it useless by any means.
Besides that, they are buffing nearly every damage skill and reducing its its resource cost.
If i remember correctly, there were 5 gems considered originally, the 5th being Sapphire which gave life steal. If they are removing life steal away from skills it could be that they are adding this gem which will make up for lost life steal.(even though that would mean less damage overall)
They are adding a Diamond gem, which if I remember correctly gives you all resist, and reduces cooldowns in helmets. But this could change also.
You're a wizard Harry.....
Even with the damage boost on the skills for the DH, they will be forcing people to get life steal on a manticore, which will lower the overall damage making the damage adjustments on the skills worthless. (if you get lifesteal you wont get the % damage or the extra socket)
or if they move life steal to a gem or socketable, it will still lower the damage and make the damage boosts on the skills useless.
just my take on the DH changes
EDIT:
I also thing one of the underlying problems with the DH is that its the only class that doesnt have defence.
Now what i mean by this is:
The barb has the damage reduction for being melee and other things to reduce/boost all res.
The monk has the damage reduction for being melee and other stuff.
The wizzard's main stat is Int which gives All res. this allows the wizzard to get some high all res.
The WD's main stat is Int which gives all res, same with thing as the wizzard. Most WD's i see doing mp10 have like 700 all res.
Now the DH has a main stat of Dex, which give only gives dodge chance.
All the other classes get usefull bonuses. The DH gets nothing, but a "Chance" to dodge, which in theory might be a good thing, but in the game its not.
I know the DH is soposed to be used to "kite" but how can you kite when you are getting knocked back, jailed, walled in, sucked to the monster, stunned, or eve the monster telelports to you. In all its good theory.
tl:dr Core issue of the DH is no defence. and kiting cant exist in a game when monsters can pull/wall/jail/stun/teleport.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumI stopped playing my demon hunter back in June/July of last year with nearly 500 hours played. But I'm pretty sure I'm one of few demon hunters who had 680 res all,800 physical resist, 2.8% ll, 70k + hp, 4500 armor and 120k dps without ss in June of last year. This is when the majority didn't have 120k dps with sharpshooter and the ones that did had about 30k hp and 200 resist.
I already assumed they were going the same route as they did with consoles. Which is health globes are much more valuable. However, you're failing to realize that in itself nerfs shadow power even more so. If the majority of healing comes from globes, then there's no reason to have a minute amount of loh for 1 skill slot.
What they should do is go with their original plan with shadow power where it increased the attack speed. Then again they could make gloom default shadow power and spice up the runes a bit more. Either way it has to either be reworked completely or they need to buff the loh. Otherwise it will never be used.
Probably. Here's an interesting read on the topic.
TL;DR Lifesteal is too strong of a stat, they didn't like it going into diablo 3 which is why it was nerfed from what it was in diablo 2. However, that just delays the inevitable when gear improves. As you can see by looking at June of last year to June of this year. Where items were considered trash with lifesteal instead of loh. Now it's completely the other way around.
So they are going to make the primary source of healing - health globes. Life from spirit/fury spent will be buffed and minor loh and absorbs look to be the secondary source of healing.
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/102306-wizard-skill-review-for-ros/
The idea that the runes shift the elemental types of the various skills and that wizard builds deal with boosting elemental damage is exactly what I was hoping for. I would imagine this is just the first pass of the changes, for all classes. For wizards still needing attention is:
-- Blizzard. If it doesn't stack, you can't design a build around it. Hopefully at least one rune that lets it stack.
-- Hydra. One hydra is just not enough. Note that legendary wand has been changed to say it allows "1 more hydra to be cast". Hopefully that means default is something like 3 hydra and the wand makes it 4.
-- Archon. Perma archon is dead (yeah!). But if Archon is the oh sh!t button it needs some work. It excels at killing lots of little things, but needs to really be better at elites and champs, not tons of trash mobs--rarely do you need help with those. Additionally if it only lasts 15 sec, runes like slow time (20 sec cooldown, 15 sec duration) make little sense.
-- CM. Clearly something needs to be done to CM.
As a final note, the change to Power Hungry could be excellent, if health globes drop more regularly as Wyatt suggested. Instead of providing no benefit when near or full AP, you can bank a ton of AP with this now. I can imagine meteor builds in particular where you cast frequent meteors that cost 0 AP.
It is still the core problem with the DH. SS and vault are okay but they are useless if thats all your doing in a fight. many a time i have vaulted away just to get sucked back in and killed. And if you have to use both in a build, that means something is wrong and it would also make it to where all you are doing is Vaulting or SS'ing half the time, slowing down the clear time to agonizingly slow times.
I used to use Vault but i have taken a liking to using caltrops in my Strafe build for the extra 10% crit chance. The vault was actually hurting my build. when i actually used it to get away id lose the charge up on strafe and would not have enough disc to use shadow power. I like my build but these changes would ruin it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DH is the only class without inherit defense in the stats or damage reduction. Yeah they should take less damage as they are so posed to be farther away from the fights, but that's never the case is it? If you are soloing mp10 will you always be far away from the mobs? Yeah vault and SS make it so you an escape but they just drain your disc for other things and making your fighting time less.
the way i see it, LS/gloom/perfectionist are all ways put in to make the defenses of the DH a tad bit better. removing LS removes the DH's defense slightly. Now if you want to Vault and SS around all day running from monsters kiting and taking a hour+ to do fields, then go do so.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont see the Punishment change as a nerf, more of a balance, and i honestly didnt really use gloom until lately, ive done fine without it, instead ive used night bane for longer Strafes. but then again ive never gone out of mp4/5 (mostly due to im poor)
Yep me too. Can't wait to knock up some succubi. Also by the wording, I think the range of all three strikes are the same now.
I'm waiting for Boot Armor to increase the damage of the 3rd strike of Deadly Reach.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumI'm not meaning you run from everything. But if TPs, vortexes, jailer or frozen is troubling you the way your post suggested, the DH has the best tools bar Thrive on Chaos right now to deal with those, and the patch is planning to make them better. Strafe builds, like non-permazerk Whirlwind builds, Tempest Rush or Dashing Strike monks, or Furious Charge spam builds, are naturally vulnerable to Jailer because they rely on a movement ability. It's the price you pay to get DPS while moving. Thrive on Chaos just let you ignore this price, so everyone got used to that as "reasonable". It isn't, permazerk is going away, and DH's can still break every jailer with one ability while monks, WD's, barbarians and wizards all have 16-second cooldowns at best on their snare breaks.
The reason why i have these problems is because i have bad gear, and because of the lack of inherent defense. you keep saying SS and Vault are defense, they arnt. You can vault away and still get destroyed if you cant take the hits.
Okay ill put it this way, a WD can get up to 700 all res WITH 200k+ unbuffed DPS
a DH can get up to like what, 200k dps with 500ish All res for the same amount of gold?
unless they make up for the missing defense in class specific items, the DH will forever be garbage for mp10.
you will always take hits no matter how many times you vault or SS you will take damage. Kiting them will drag your clear time drastically. (If you want to kite things, go play Ezreal on League of Legends.)
I also explained with the LS nerf, the damages are still nerfed. since you have to make up for the lost LS, you gotta get it in the weapon. which you will lose either a socket or up to 50% weapon damage in the manticore's case. Which is a LOT of damage.
The only nerf is to shadow power which needed it for two reasons. One, it seems they're changing their philosphy on LS and nerfing it across the board for skills so that huge 15% LS had to go. Second, it was too good compared to any other defensive skill that it made it pretty much mandatory. Reducing to 25% DR instead of 35% isn't going to make the skill useless. It's still a great skill.
And DHs dont really have problems surviving on high mp if you build them right, they're problem is they dont have the damage output to farm. Note I said farm and not single target kill speed because they have that - my 346 unbuffed DH was able to down mp10 Ghom in 37 seconds which is comparable to other classes at the same unbuffed dps. They only have one real good farm skill on high mp and thats bombardment. blizz is solving this by buffing the damage dealers and reducing resource cost.
They will prolly nerf monster damage too. And CM will most likely get the nerfbat as well.