Maybe it's not the Hell Forge that matters in destroying the soulstone, but only the fact that you were in Hell, so that you don't release the spirit contain within the mortal world.
I don't know, Tyrael tells marius to take the stone there, Cain tells you to take the stone there. But that doesn't exactly disprove your point, but it does make sense that that is the only place you can destroy it, makes it seem more special.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Maybe it's not the Hell Forge that matters in destroying the soulstone, but only the fact that you were in Hell, so that you don't release the spirit contain within the mortal world.
They make it seem as if the Hellforge is the only place that the stones can actually be destroyed. But yeah, there's nothing that completely disproves your theory.
Quote from "Veltras" »
Seeing as the Prime Evils has planned their Dark Exile for along, it seems to me that they intended to use the soulstones to gain the powers of their target and perhaps in time even the power of the Nephalem. I'm pretty sure that the destruction of the Worldstone has been planned from the beginning by them.
Yes, I too have often thought that even the destruction of the Worldstone was part of their plan as well. I guess it was a win/win situation for them: corruption or destruction. But we'll find out the answer soon enough.
Quote from "Veltras" »
Also, wasn't Lazarus the one possessing Mephisto's Soulstone, I always thought it was the reason why he became mad in the first place.
No, Mephisto's Soulstone was kept safe in the Guardian Tower in the Travincal. Lazarus was from there originally (as part of the Zakarum), but he seemed fine up until arriving at Tristram.
Quote from name="Game Manual" »
Sensing that freedom was within his grasp, Diablo entered the nightmares of the Arch Bishop and lured him into the dark, subterranean labyrinth. In his terror, Lazarus raced throughout the abandoned hallways until he at last came to the chamber of the burning Soulstone.
I suppose it is possible that Mephisto already made him susceptible to Diablo's attack when Lazarus was in Kurast, but nothing hints at this. Though, if Diablo needed a body, I really don't know why he didn't just use Lazarus. A powerful mage such as Lazarus would have been perfect. Maybe Diablo was just having one of those days? lol.
Originally Posted by Game Manual Sensing that freedom was within his grasp, Diablo entered the nightmares of the Arch Bishop and lured him into the dark, subterranean labyrinth. In his terror, Lazarus raced throughout the abandoned hallways until he at last came to the chamber of the burning Soulstone.
Quote from "Atrumentis" »
No, Mephisto's Soulstone was kept safe in the Guardian Tower in the Travincal. Lazarus was from there originally (as part of the Zakarum), but he seemed fine up until arriving at Tristram.
It seems that the D2 manual has another view on this:
Originally Posted by Diablo 2 Game Manual
Faithfull Lazarus,
....But most important, the Horadrim trusted our Church to maintain the wardings that keep our dark guest chained beneath the Temple City. Since it has been your sole responsibility to safeguard Mephisto's Soulstone, I wonder if perhaps your dread task isn't affecting your noble spirit in some malign way.
....
Sankekur, Que-Hegan
p.105
That would explain why Diablo didn't posess Lazarus and why Lazarus came to Tristram in the first place, because he was already controlled by Mephisto.
Ah, I was looking for that, but Solomir's site is temporarily down for some reason, and I can't find my game manual. Well, there's the hint you needed to support your theory. But, you could have provided that quote in the first place lol.
What throne? As far as I know (and I could be wrong, as proven multiple times lol), that a physical throne of Hell is never mentioned. There is not a single ruler of Hell though, there are three rulers: Diablo, Mephisto and Baal. Or at least, they were the rulers, but since the Dark Exile (when they were 'banished' to Sanctuary), Azmodan and Belial have been fighting over rule of Hell. So I suppose you could say that Azmodan and Belial are the next in line for the 'throne', but until one of them is defeated or someone else more powerful comes along (Lilith? or if the Prime Evils return), they will forever fight over it and never actually claim it.
Sorry if this is kind of random, but did any of you ever think how odd it is that Baal's and Mephisto's soulstones were stored in elaborate, grand places, while Diablo's was just underneath a backwater town in the middle of nowhere?
Sorry if this is kind of random, but did any of you ever think how odd it is that Baal's and Mephisto's soulstones were stored in elaborate, grand places, while Diablo's was just underneath a backwater town in the middle of nowhere?
But that can also be made into a clever hiding place, no? A little backwater town that no one would really suspect.
Tristram is where Diablo was captured. Mephisto and Baal were caught in the desert and were buried there. Mephisto was later moved.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Heres a question. Can someone give me a HISTORY of baal? Like..besides the information provided in the game where baal was imprisoned by Tal Rasha in Lut Golen or however it's spelled what was baal up to before that? If you could give a history as far back as possible that would be cool
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Yes, I too have often thought that even the destruction of the Worldstone was part of their plan as well. I guess it was a win/win situation for them: corruption or destruction. But we'll find out the answer soon enough.
I'd guess it was more of a backup-plan. If their goal was to destroy it, couldn't Baal have done it himself? I can't see how Tyraels powers would in any way be any more suited to destroy the Worldstone compared to Baal.
To me, it seemed the original plan of corrupting the stone was to give Hell an advantage, only granting access to hell but limiting it still for Heaven. It also seems as if destroying it is a carefully considered action. Tyrael doesn't reveal any form of hints to suggest that he knows what will happen, and once again it seems unlikely that Baal would possess that knowledge.
Quote from "Vimes6" »
I would like ask the question:Who is next in queue to the Throne?
Since most of us are pretty much assuming the Three will return, I don't think there's any real answer to that, other than Azmodan/Belial.
Tyrael is an angel. i don't think he'll have any way of controlling demons, at least not as long as two Lesser Evils still live.
Quote from "Magistrate" »
Sorry if this is kind of random, but did any of you ever think how odd it is that Baal's and Mephisto's soulstones were stored in elaborate, grand places, while Diablo's was just underneath a backwater town in the middle of nowhere?
Most likely just a plot device Blizzard used to get us out in the open
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Heres a question. Can someone give me a HISTORY of baal? Like..besides the information provided in the game where baal was imprisoned by Tal Rasha in Lut Golen or however it's spelled what was baal up to before that? If you could give a history as far back as possible that would be cool
If you want to know more about Baal, look at p.106 in the D2 game manual. I'm not going to rewrite it for you, so you better find a virtual version if you don't have the manual.
To make it short, it says that Baal seemed to have been heading toward the north of Luth Gholein (to Mt. Arreat perhaps???). Tal Rasha and his companions hunted him down in the desert and eventually killed him. Unfortunately for them, Baal destroyed the Soulstone during the battle. As a last resort, Tal Rasha took the biggest shard left and combined it with his own body to imprisoned Baal.
Tyrael then imprisoned Tal Rasha in one tomb amongst seven others in the desert (apparently those hasn't been made by the Horadrims) and left him there to fight with Baal forever.
If you want to know more about Baal, look at p.106 in the D2 game manual. I'm not going to rewrite it for you, so you better find a virtual version if you don't have the manual.
To make it short, it says that Baal seemed to have been heading toward the north of Luth Gholein (to Mt. Arreat perhaps???). Tal Rasha and his companions hunted him down in the desert and eventually killed him. Unfortunately for them, Baal destroyed the Soulstone during the battle. As a last resort, Tal Rasha took the biggest shard left and combined it with his own body to imprisoned Baal.
Tyrael then imprisoned Tal Rasha in one tomb amongst seven others in the desert (apparently those hasn't been made by the Horadrims) and left him there to fight with Baal forever.
And you know the rest...
i know that part. that wasn't my question. Thats the earliest information of baal i know of. I have yet to finish the sin war so maybe his story starts there. But like, we have way more info on diablo and mephisto. what about baal? what was he up to way back in the day?? preferably starting in sin war era if his history traces that far back
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
i know that part. that wasn't my question. Thats the earliest information of baal i know of. I have yet to finish the sin war so maybe his story starts there. But like, we have way more info on diablo and mephisto. what about baal? what was he up to way back in the day?? preferably starting in sin war era if his history traces that far back
There's practically nothing of Baal in The Sin War, as far as I remember we never really get any interaction from him, just his name mentioned a few times.
Makes you wonder what he was up to all those years.
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This is not going to answer your question, but in the Sin War Lucion has a servant named Gulag who is a favored pet of Baal. Gulag, is depicted as a demon of inferior intelligence who rely mostly on raw strength to achieve his ends.
Since he is the Lord of Destruction, I think Baal is probably the less intelligent of the Three and thus has less influence on their ultimate plan, so that's probably why we didn't hear too much about him so far.
I'd guess it was more of a backup-plan. If their goal was to destroy it, couldn't Baal have done it himself? I can't see how Tyraels powers would in any way be any more suited to destroy the Worldstone compared to Baal.
To me, it seemed the original plan of corrupting the stone was to give Hell an advantage, only granting access to hell but limiting it still for Heaven. It also seems as if destroying it is a carefully considered action. Tyrael doesn't reveal any form of hints to suggest that he knows what will happen, and once again it seems unlikely that Baal would possess that knowledge.
Since most of us are pretty much assuming the Three will return, I don't think there's any real answer to that, other than Azmodan/Belial.
Tyrael is an angel. i don't think he'll have any way of controlling demons, at least not as long as two Lesser Evils still live.
Most likely just a plot device Blizzard used to get us out in the open
Here is my theory. Previously posted in a dead thread.
I think the prime evils wanted their soulstones destroyed so that they could return to hell and reclaim their throne. Before they returned to hell they needed to soften it up. What better way than to destroy the worldstone, unleashing a holy/unholy war between heaven and hell. When Belial and Azmodan were all but defeated they would make their return and become rulers of hell once again. I believe Tyrael tried to stop them but was overcome by corruption in the presence of two prime evils within tal rasha's tomb. He pretended to befriend you and led you to all of the prime evils and their soulstones in order to break them from the mortal realm. After killing baal Tyrael destroys the worldstone in order to set the plan into action. Tyrael is soon after banished to an icy tomb to spend all of eternity in a frozen sadness by the agrinis council or the ancients.
There's practically nothing of Baal in The Sin War, as far as I remember we never really get any interaction from him, just his name mentioned a few times.
Makes you wonder what he was up to all those years.
Definitely, baal is a very mysterious character
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Since he is the Lord of Destruction, I think Baal is probably the less intelligent of the Three and thus has less influence on their ultimate plan, so that's probably why we didn't hear too much about him so far.
Although following your reasoning, Baal would probably be mightier than his brothers in single combat, which I find hard to believe, seeing as Diablo is always held as the strongest of the Three in terms of raw power.
Quote from "Murderface" »
Here is my theory. Previously posted in a dead thread.
I think the prime evils wanted their soulstones destroyed so that they could return to hell and reclaim their throne.
That would depend on how the Exile is interpeted. I always drew the conclusion from the game that the Exile was masterminded by the Three, meaning the whole "Lesser Evils kikcs out Prime Evil" thing was a ruse to begin with.
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That would depend on how the Exile is interpeted. I always drew the conclusion from the game that the Exile was masterminded by the Three, meaning the whole "Lesser Evils kikcs out Prime Evil" thing was a ruse to begin with.
really? i always felt that it was the brothers getting screwed over lol. but, considering my previous theory that is displayed in most all of the books that humans know very little about what is actually going on and just have pieces of the puzzle. And the whole "prime evils defeated 1/3 of the legions of hell before succumbing" could just be myth and the prime evils weren't defeated but rather intended for it to happen. i understand
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
really? i always felt that it was the brothers getting screwed over lol. but, considering my previous theory that is displayed in most all of the books that humans know very little about what is actually going on and just have pieces of the puzzle. And the whole "prime evils defeated 1/3 of the legions of hell before succumbing" could just be myth and the prime evils weren't defeated but rather intended for it to happen. i understand
Go talk to Izual, you'll understand everything...
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
Although following your reasoning, Baal would probably be mightier than his brothers in single combat, which I find hard to believe, seeing as Diablo is always held as the strongest of the Three in terms of raw power.
I'm not saying that Baal is stronger, just that he is less smart. Mephisto seems to be the head of the Three while Diablo is more like a serpent ready to backstab you when you least expect it. On the other, I suppose that Baal could still control a stronger army of demons than his brothers (think about act 5).
really? i always felt that it was the brothers getting screwed over lol. but, considering my previous theory that is displayed in most all of the books that humans know very little about what is actually going on and just have pieces of the puzzle. And the whole "prime evils defeated 1/3 of the legions of hell before succumbing" could just be myth and the prime evils weren't defeated but rather intended for it to happen. i understand
The underlying idea as to why I believe that is that Sanctuary is the tool needed to win, and the Three realize this. Now, they faked the exile, as is evident by Andariel and Duriel rejoining them, but I think it might have backfired with Azmodan and Belial starting their own little homegrown war. It is possibly that it was planned for those two to stay behind and guard Hell, but things got out of hand when they got the power they now wield as lords of Hell.
EDIT: And Veltras, that topic took a lot of muster out of me last time I discussed it, I think we ought to leave it for now. At least until we get some more canon from Blizzard
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I don't know, Tyrael tells marius to take the stone there, Cain tells you to take the stone there. But that doesn't exactly disprove your point, but it does make sense that that is the only place you can destroy it, makes it seem more special.
They make it seem as if the Hellforge is the only place that the stones can actually be destroyed. But yeah, there's nothing that completely disproves your theory.
Yes, I too have often thought that even the destruction of the Worldstone was part of their plan as well. I guess it was a win/win situation for them: corruption or destruction. But we'll find out the answer soon enough.
No, Mephisto's Soulstone was kept safe in the Guardian Tower in the Travincal. Lazarus was from there originally (as part of the Zakarum), but he seemed fine up until arriving at Tristram.
I suppose it is possible that Mephisto already made him susceptible to Diablo's attack when Lazarus was in Kurast, but nothing hints at this. Though, if Diablo needed a body, I really don't know why he didn't just use Lazarus. A powerful mage such as Lazarus would have been perfect. Maybe Diablo was just having one of those days? lol.
It seems that the D2 manual has another view on this:
That would explain why Diablo didn't posess Lazarus and why Lazarus came to Tristram in the first place, because he was already controlled by Mephisto.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
To me, it seemed the original plan of corrupting the stone was to give Hell an advantage, only granting access to hell but limiting it still for Heaven. It also seems as if destroying it is a carefully considered action. Tyrael doesn't reveal any form of hints to suggest that he knows what will happen, and once again it seems unlikely that Baal would possess that knowledge.
Since most of us are pretty much assuming the Three will return, I don't think there's any real answer to that, other than Azmodan/Belial.
Tyrael is an angel. i don't think he'll have any way of controlling demons, at least not as long as two Lesser Evils still live.
Most likely just a plot device Blizzard used to get us out in the open
If you want to know more about Baal, look at p.106 in the D2 game manual. I'm not going to rewrite it for you, so you better find a virtual version if you don't have the manual.
To make it short, it says that Baal seemed to have been heading toward the north of Luth Gholein (to Mt. Arreat perhaps???). Tal Rasha and his companions hunted him down in the desert and eventually killed him. Unfortunately for them, Baal destroyed the Soulstone during the battle. As a last resort, Tal Rasha took the biggest shard left and combined it with his own body to imprisoned Baal.
Tyrael then imprisoned Tal Rasha in one tomb amongst seven others in the desert (apparently those hasn't been made by the Horadrims) and left him there to fight with Baal forever.
And you know the rest...
i know that part. that wasn't my question. Thats the earliest information of baal i know of. I have yet to finish the sin war so maybe his story starts there. But like, we have way more info on diablo and mephisto. what about baal? what was he up to way back in the day?? preferably starting in sin war era if his history traces that far back
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Makes you wonder what he was up to all those years.
Since he is the Lord of Destruction, I think Baal is probably the less intelligent of the Three and thus has less influence on their ultimate plan, so that's probably why we didn't hear too much about him so far.
I think the prime evils wanted their soulstones destroyed so that they could return to hell and reclaim their throne. Before they returned to hell they needed to soften it up. What better way than to destroy the worldstone, unleashing a holy/unholy war between heaven and hell. When Belial and Azmodan were all but defeated they would make their return and become rulers of hell once again. I believe Tyrael tried to stop them but was overcome by corruption in the presence of two prime evils within tal rasha's tomb. He pretended to befriend you and led you to all of the prime evils and their soulstones in order to break them from the mortal realm. After killing baal Tyrael destroys the worldstone in order to set the plan into action. Tyrael is soon after banished to an icy tomb to spend all of eternity in a frozen sadness by the agrinis council or the ancients.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
That would depend on how the Exile is interpeted. I always drew the conclusion from the game that the Exile was masterminded by the Three, meaning the whole "Lesser Evils kikcs out Prime Evil" thing was a ruse to begin with.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Go talk to Izual, you'll understand everything...
I'm not saying that Baal is stronger, just that he is less smart. Mephisto seems to be the head of the Three while Diablo is more like a serpent ready to backstab you when you least expect it. On the other, I suppose that Baal could still control a stronger army of demons than his brothers (think about act 5).
EDIT: And Veltras, that topic took a lot of muster out of me last time I discussed it, I think we ought to leave it for now. At least until we get some more canon from Blizzard