What happened with the AH and the ridiculous proliferation of powerful items has them terrified. This is just a phase, it'll pass.
But still, I don't see them playing it so safe to be all that shocking.
edit: I dunno, his reasoning is pretty sound. Trading is good, but it's not the point of the game. Better to do whatever you can to make the core part of the game enjoyable.
I have been in agreement with legendary and set items being strictly soulbound for a long time now and have been a proponent of that for a long time. I am glad that Travis Day agrees with me on this as finding a legendary should actually FEEL legendary. If any item is tradable it automatically becomes trivial because when thousands upon thousands of people are playing every day that item will just be everywhere and so easy to obtain it can't possibly feel good to own it and have found it yourself. You can't have your cake and eat it too on this one.
It makes even more sense in the fact that they want to make every legendary good and useful and not have crappy rolls on it. Everyone wants legendaries to feel legendary and have very low range on affix rolls and also drop often enough to not be extremely scarce, but you can't have that if the legendaries are tradeable because it makes them too abundant and obsolete.
We all want our characters to feel unique, and making legendaries soulbound on pick up proliferates this. If legendaries are used to open up new builds, then when you are using that new build because you actually found that legendary then in a way that build becomes inherently unique to your character. Your friends can't just trade for the item and use that build within the hour. If they want that build they have to put in the work and find that item themselves.
Think about set items as well. When you see someone with all the parts of Tal Rasha or Immortal Kings you know that person actually FOUND all of those set pieces making the set bonuses that much more impressive. They didn't just trade for them all with ease. It actually has inherent meaning to own them all.
Think of how much more rewarding finding a legendary will feel when you factor in all these things.
Let's not forget how soulbound legendaries will negatively affect duping, botting, scamming, and pay to win. Totally worth it.
I am really excited for this change and I know that the majority do not agree with me on this but I hope that this will make it into the final product. I'm sure everyone will whine though and it will get overturned, but one can dream.
Everyone that frequents this forum knows that I've been a staunch opponent of the AH and mass trading from day 1.
But this is just ridiculous. I guess "overreaction" is the new buzzword at Blizzard.
They've all been affected by
Dat overreaction (by them, not you)...
Either way, we don't know if this is final or the actual details (maybe Sets and Legendaries only become soulbound if they're affected by Smart Drops).
And we have no idea how that feels from a gameplay PoV. Who knows, maybe the game is absolutely mindblowing from an item hunting standpoint.
They should really start letting us test those things, like right naow!
Like Ive said, they need to either find a new way of standardizing trade, or they need to make self-found crazy good. Looks like theyre shooting for the latter.
Been a proponent of this "only trading within your group"-system as well.
It is drastic for sure, and maybe it will turn out to be too drastic, but damn does it solve many problems at once.
It makes even more sense in the fact that they want to make every legendary good and useful and not have crappy rolls on it. Everyone wants legendaries to feel legendary and have very low range on affix rolls and also drop often enough to not be extremely scarce, but you can't have that if the legendaries are tradeable because it makes them too abundant and obsolete.
Yes, you can. Just don't trade for legendaries. What's so hard about that? As long as the game is not balanced around everyone mass-trading, then everyone will, eventually, and within a reasonable time scale, find the legendaries they want/need.
Your friends can't just trade for the item and use that build within the hour. If they want that build they have to put in the work and find that item themselves.
You seem to view your friends as adversaries.
I view them as allies, and that's why, to me, this is a horrible change. I love giving items to my friends, and I love receiving them as well. Whether or not they can emulate build X within the hour is the furthest thing from my mind when I play with them.
I don't view my friends as adversaries, I just want to feel like something I found makes me unique from everyone else. It's the same thing with skills. Picking my skills now does not feel unique or separate me from another character of the same class because they can just emulate me instantaneously by changing their skills to mine. It's not that I don't want people to move up, I just want some of the things I do to be a unique experience solely for me and not instantaneously emulated by anyone else on a whim. It's not like other players aren't going to be finding their own legendaries and doing their own things that make them individually powerful, it's just different and not mimicable at the drop of a hat.
Self-imposing to not trade for legendaries does not help with how finding a legendary makes me personally feel. If I find an amazing legendary, I will just know in the back of my mind that I could have traded for it a week after the games release instead and it just won't feel as worthy as it should. Not to mention that everyone else around me already traded for one months ago. How does that feel good? Having the game enforce a concept that makes legendaries feel valuable and rewarding when you find them makes it that much more so. If I just play different on my own, it just doesn't feel the same, especially when all my friends are just trading for legendaries with ease and I am that much more out of the loop. It is important for the game to stand behind and enforce the concept so everyone is on equal footing. Finding a legendary won't feel good if everyone else can instantly gratify themselves by obtaining it instantly; that's the point. It's impossible to achieve.
So in a game where I might play for 2 years and not find say a mempo, I now can't trade to get one at all?
I am not going to go into all the reasons this is a bad idea, if you don't play in a team you may as well be in offline single player mode.
The idea is that Mempo is not the end all be all of everything if they implement itemization correctly. If they make the scope of legendaries so great and so vast that every legendary item is valuable and useful, you won't mourn that you haven't found a mempo just yet, you will have many other legendary set helms that are just as good and useful. Plus, when you actually do find the mempo it will feel that much more rewarding because you found it yourself. You didn't just instantly gratify yourself, which cheapens the experience of owning it.
Even if it would be hard to balance low lvl legendaries, who cares anymore.
It isnt like Blizzard is trying to make low lvl interesting. They long ago made it binary; either you are max lvl or you are not - and nothing indicates that they want to change this.
As such, it shouldnt matter if low lvl legendaries were balanced, just throw them out there for the fun of it.
I also want to also state that this is a system that would affect me adversely too, but I still support it. I too want to look at my friends characters and be jealous too of something they found, that I yet haven't, and know that I can't just instantly gratify myself with my very own version within an hour's time. I wouldn't be as impressed that he owned it in the first place if I knew that I could just go trade for it and get my own relatively hassle-free. I crave that experience that makes me see an item I want on a friend and encourages me to go hunt for my very own on monsters, instead of a trade channel. Then to know that when I finally find it, it will be that much savory of a victory.
Either way, we don't know if this is final or the actual details (maybe Sets and Legendaries only become soulbound if they're affected by Smart Drops).
I'm pretty sure Josh mentioned that they wanted Smart Drops to be BoA, so this is pretty likely.
I'm firmly with maka, and others, though. If they make Sets/Legendaries BoA by default, I simply won't buy RoS. It's the most ridiculous overreaction to the "AH situation" that they could have come up with.
If I go four years and never find a Mempo I sure as hell want the OPTION to be able to acquire one. In a game based on RNG you *must* have a check against bad luck. Trading has always been that check in the Diablo franchise. I never found a Windforce in all my time playing D2. To say to me "then you cannot have a Windforce, no matter how much time you invested" is just stupid, arrogant, and completely misses the point of what trading is supposed to accomplish.
[...] Plus, when you actually do find the mempo it will feel that much more rewarding because you found it yourself. You didn't just instantly gratify yourself, which cheapens the experience of owning it.
I don't untderstand this point of view - at all. You can play selffound totaly fine even if you have the possibility to trade. No one forces you to trade for items, but you have the possibility to chose so if you like. I played selffound in D2, had the possibility of trading, but I chose not to because I find it more rewarding to find the gear myself. Now you don't have the power to chose how you would like to play - they decide for you...
You can still trade rares, gems, crafting materials, etc... so it is not self found at all. It's completely different. Choosing to play in a way that hinders yourself by self-imposition is not fun. It is important that the game enforces this sense of making finding legendaries actually rewarding and not an irrelevant experience, which trading of legendaries so readily accomplishes.
I will leave it at that and let others discuss. I know my opinion on this is not popular, but I think once people see it for what it is and actually try it, it will be a rewarding experience.
You have to remember the positives of this outcome and see the big picture for what it is. Legendaries will drop more often and will have better rolls guaranteed. Making them soul-bound is the only way to allow this and keep them from not being too abundant and irrelevant.
I'm not happy with that either @shaggy. I hope my post didn't convey that idea. As I said, big overreaction by them.
I wouldn't go as far as saying I wouldn't buy the game because of it, but it definitely is a negative thing in my eyes now. We just need more info and time to think about it. I don't like knee-jerk reactions to changes like these (even though sometimes said reactions are necessary).
Anyone that had been complaining for the removal of the AH should have seen this coming. What would be the point of removing the MEANS to trading without also removing the PURPOSE for trading. Now you truly won't and CAN'T trade, you should be happy.... and its a good lesson to the overly-vocal community that post their same dam complaints month-in and month-out: Be careful what you wish for!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
I also want to also state that this is a system that would affect me adversely too, but I still support it. I too want to look at my friends characters and be jealous too of something they found, that I yet haven't, and know that I can't just instantly gratify myself with my very own version within an hour's time. I wouldn't be as impressed that he owned it in the first place if I knew that I could just go trade for it and get my own relatively hassle-free. I crave that experience that makes me see an item I want on a friend and encourages me to go hunt for my very own on monsters, instead of a trade channel. Then to know that when I finally find it, it will be that much savory of a victory.
All this shows to me is:
#1 - you're jealous of your friends' gear (wtf, jealous? really? talk about misplaced emotions...), which is weird;
#2 - you have no self control.
I've played self found since release, but I understood the people that said that they felt "forced" to use the AH even though they didn't like it; the self found experience was so frustrating that I totally understood if some people just couldn't be asked to 'suffer' through that.
But, if they do things right, and with the demise of the AH, playing self found will be a blast, and nowhere near that level of frustration, so I can no longer sympathise with that way of thinking. Now all it takes is a tiny amount of self control.
It's not about self-control. It's just not as fun. Can I do it? Yes. Is it fun? No. It's not fun for me unless everyone else is doing it the same way.
It's not directly jealousy. Not the best word choice. More of a feeling of awe. Like. WOW! You found that?! Awesome man! Nice work! Then to know that I can't just copy him makes it that much more awesome. If I wanted it too I'd have to go take my chances with slaying some monsters, instead of spamming a trade channel and getting it within an hours time.
It's not about self-control. It's just not as fun. Can I do it? Yes. Is it fun? No. It's not fun for me unless everyone else is doing it the same way.
It's not directly jealousy. Not the best word choice. More of a feeling of awe. Like. WOW! You found that?! Awesome man! Nice work! Then to know that I can't just copy him makes it that much more awesome.
Listen, I understand what you're talking about, but you also have to understand and acknowledge that that's your own 'thing', and not really prevalent amongst the playerbase at large. It was a feeling I could get behind when the existence of the AH basically dictated how many drops you got, but with it gone, and with the focus shifting more towards the self found experience, there's no longer any reason to feel 'forced' to trade, except because your inner voice is telling you that "you could have that item by hopping on d2jsp".
So yeah, I understand, but I think that it's your own 'problem', and you should deal with it yourself, instead of imposing the 'cure' on everyone else.
What other people are doing, including my friends, in the scope of the game matters. Take duping for example. If Blizzard endorsed duping that would not be fun, even if I was able to restrain myself from duping myself. I could isolate myself and not dupe, but that defeats the multiplayer experience.
If you want legendaries to be plentiful in dropping and you want to decrease the range the affixes roll at, you can't have them be tradeable. It overloads the game with a bunch of legendaries that automatically become irrelevant because they are overabundant. Everyone will just have the most powerful items all over the place and it won't bear any meaning in the scope of the game. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I think you guys don't see all the good in this...
1.) No bots
2.) No third party sites
3.) Sub prime drops will now appear good as players are now on an even playing field. No more players such as Athene that get fed and make everyone else think their gear sucks. No more trade scams/tycoons.
4.) PvP can finally find a center of balance. Just like esports, everyone has an even playing field. No ability to use real money.. no ability to use social connections to stack up.
5.) FINDING items is actually the end game like it was meant to be....
I think you guys don't see all the good in this...
1.) No bots
2.) No third party sites
3.) Sub prime drops will now appear good as players are now on an even playing field. No more players such as Athene that get fed and make everyone else think their gear sucks. No more trade scams/tycoons.
4.) PvP can finally find a center of balance. Just like esports, everyone has an even playing field. No ability to use real money.. no ability to use suicidal connections to stack up.
Trading is fun for some people.
Sometimes, the thrill of a great drop is the items value on trade. If I find a GREAT barb legendary, I'm not gonna play barb.....so it's useless to me. Instead of being able to trade it for a great WD or Monk item, I'm stuck with my best drop ever collecting dust....can't even give it to my buddy for free.
Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ_y4H-Epto 1:15 in the video.
What happened with the AH and the ridiculous proliferation of powerful items has them terrified. This is just a phase, it'll pass.
But still, I don't see them playing it so safe to be all that shocking.
edit: I dunno, his reasoning is pretty sound. Trading is good, but it's not the point of the game. Better to do whatever you can to make the core part of the game enjoyable.
It makes even more sense in the fact that they want to make every legendary good and useful and not have crappy rolls on it. Everyone wants legendaries to feel legendary and have very low range on affix rolls and also drop often enough to not be extremely scarce, but you can't have that if the legendaries are tradeable because it makes them too abundant and obsolete.
We all want our characters to feel unique, and making legendaries soulbound on pick up proliferates this. If legendaries are used to open up new builds, then when you are using that new build because you actually found that legendary then in a way that build becomes inherently unique to your character. Your friends can't just trade for the item and use that build within the hour. If they want that build they have to put in the work and find that item themselves.
Think about set items as well. When you see someone with all the parts of Tal Rasha or Immortal Kings you know that person actually FOUND all of those set pieces making the set bonuses that much more impressive. They didn't just trade for them all with ease. It actually has inherent meaning to own them all.
Think of how much more rewarding finding a legendary will feel when you factor in all these things.
Let's not forget how soulbound legendaries will negatively affect duping, botting, scamming, and pay to win. Totally worth it.
I am really excited for this change and I know that the majority do not agree with me on this but I hope that this will make it into the final product. I'm sure everyone will whine though and it will get overturned, but one can dream.
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Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Dat overreaction (by them, not you)...
Either way, we don't know if this is final or the actual details (maybe Sets and Legendaries only become soulbound if they're affected by Smart Drops).
And we have no idea how that feels from a gameplay PoV. Who knows, maybe the game is absolutely mindblowing from an item hunting standpoint.
They should really start letting us test those things, like right naow!
It is drastic for sure, and maybe it will turn out to be too drastic, but damn does it solve many problems at once.
I don't view my friends as adversaries, I just want to feel like something I found makes me unique from everyone else. It's the same thing with skills. Picking my skills now does not feel unique or separate me from another character of the same class because they can just emulate me instantaneously by changing their skills to mine. It's not that I don't want people to move up, I just want some of the things I do to be a unique experience solely for me and not instantaneously emulated by anyone else on a whim. It's not like other players aren't going to be finding their own legendaries and doing their own things that make them individually powerful, it's just different and not mimicable at the drop of a hat.
Self-imposing to not trade for legendaries does not help with how finding a legendary makes me personally feel. If I find an amazing legendary, I will just know in the back of my mind that I could have traded for it a week after the games release instead and it just won't feel as worthy as it should. Not to mention that everyone else around me already traded for one months ago. How does that feel good? Having the game enforce a concept that makes legendaries feel valuable and rewarding when you find them makes it that much more so. If I just play different on my own, it just doesn't feel the same, especially when all my friends are just trading for legendaries with ease and I am that much more out of the loop. It is important for the game to stand behind and enforce the concept so everyone is on equal footing. Finding a legendary won't feel good if everyone else can instantly gratify themselves by obtaining it instantly; that's the point. It's impossible to achieve.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
The idea is that Mempo is not the end all be all of everything if they implement itemization correctly. If they make the scope of legendaries so great and so vast that every legendary item is valuable and useful, you won't mourn that you haven't found a mempo just yet, you will have many other legendary set helms that are just as good and useful. Plus, when you actually do find the mempo it will feel that much more rewarding because you found it yourself. You didn't just instantly gratify yourself, which cheapens the experience of owning it.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
It isnt like Blizzard is trying to make low lvl interesting. They long ago made it binary; either you are max lvl or you are not - and nothing indicates that they want to change this.
As such, it shouldnt matter if low lvl legendaries were balanced, just throw them out there for the fun of it.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
I'm pretty sure Josh mentioned that they wanted Smart Drops to be BoA, so this is pretty likely.
I'm firmly with maka, and others, though. If they make Sets/Legendaries BoA by default, I simply won't buy RoS. It's the most ridiculous overreaction to the "AH situation" that they could have come up with.
If I go four years and never find a Mempo I sure as hell want the OPTION to be able to acquire one. In a game based on RNG you *must* have a check against bad luck. Trading has always been that check in the Diablo franchise. I never found a Windforce in all my time playing D2. To say to me "then you cannot have a Windforce, no matter how much time you invested" is just stupid, arrogant, and completely misses the point of what trading is supposed to accomplish.
You can still trade rares, gems, crafting materials, etc... so it is not self found at all. It's completely different. Choosing to play in a way that hinders yourself by self-imposition is not fun. It is important that the game enforces this sense of making finding legendaries actually rewarding and not an irrelevant experience, which trading of legendaries so readily accomplishes.
I will leave it at that and let others discuss. I know my opinion on this is not popular, but I think once people see it for what it is and actually try it, it will be a rewarding experience.
You have to remember the positives of this outcome and see the big picture for what it is. Legendaries will drop more often and will have better rolls guaranteed. Making them soul-bound is the only way to allow this and keep them from not being too abundant and irrelevant.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Also if items are to be solebound I assume that means no more hand me downs?
I wouldn't go as far as saying I wouldn't buy the game because of it, but it definitely is a negative thing in my eyes now. We just need more info and time to think about it. I don't like knee-jerk reactions to changes like these (even though sometimes said reactions are necessary).
Be careful what you wish for!
It's not about self-control. It's just not as fun. Can I do it? Yes. Is it fun? No. It's not fun for me unless everyone else is doing it the same way.
It's not directly jealousy. Not the best word choice. More of a feeling of awe. Like. WOW! You found that?! Awesome man! Nice work! Then to know that I can't just copy him makes it that much more awesome. If I wanted it too I'd have to go take my chances with slaying some monsters, instead of spamming a trade channel and getting it within an hours time.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
What other people are doing, including my friends, in the scope of the game matters. Take duping for example. If Blizzard endorsed duping that would not be fun, even if I was able to restrain myself from duping myself. I could isolate myself and not dupe, but that defeats the multiplayer experience.
If you want legendaries to be plentiful in dropping and you want to decrease the range the affixes roll at, you can't have them be tradeable. It overloads the game with a bunch of legendaries that automatically become irrelevant because they are overabundant. Everyone will just have the most powerful items all over the place and it won't bear any meaning in the scope of the game. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
1.) No bots
2.) No third party sites
3.) Sub prime drops will now appear good as players are now on an even playing field. No more players such as Athene that get fed and make everyone else think their gear sucks. No more trade scams/tycoons.
4.) PvP can finally find a center of balance. Just like esports, everyone has an even playing field. No ability to use real money.. no ability to use social connections to stack up.
5.) FINDING items is actually the end game like it was meant to be....
Trading is fun for some people.
Sometimes, the thrill of a great drop is the items value on trade. If I find a GREAT barb legendary, I'm not gonna play barb.....so it's useless to me. Instead of being able to trade it for a great WD or Monk item, I'm stuck with my best drop ever collecting dust....can't even give it to my buddy for free.
There's a middle ground here.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan