After seeing the recent data mining post hint at another difficulty mode, I am unsure whether this is really necessary.
Having completed Act IV Inferno on several toons, I felt it would only be necessary to tackle Act V on Inferno difficulty - which diminishes the Diablo experience.
On one hand, an extra difficulty setting gives me more to do with my Lvl 60 characters when the expansion comes out. - which is a good thing.
On the other, if I want to level a new character from scratch, I have to complete 5 difficulty setttings to get to "end game". That's a LOT of repetition. I feel the difficulties should be scaled to a maximum of 3 settings - therefore Torment/Inferno difficulty should be the Hell mode setting, or you should be able to skip difficulty settings if your toon can handle it.
I think the MP setting scales the difficulty experience without having to add ANOTHER difficulty setting.
Unless they're planning on scrapping Inferno I don't mind. Maybe they're changing the way the whole difficulty progression works, or fixing something about it. I certainly hope so because I doubt that anyone at Blizzard would be thinking "This game needs another difficulty".
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Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Should include Spoiler tags in your thread name, and call it Difficulty changes[Spoilers] so as not to spoil it for anyone that wouldn't want it spoiled. INB4 you say it's on the front page, not everyone reads those posts specifically because they say spoiler all over them and they dont want things ruined for when the game releases.
On topic though I think its a way to give an uber difficulty. Unlocked at the end of Inferno Lv 70 you can get achievments for completing it but it doesn't count as beating the game. Beating the game is just inferno. Torment is probably going to be PRe Inferno nerf so that it truly is a torment to get through. At least this is what I hope it is. I mean I think pre-inferno was actually challanging and therefore rewarding when you could beat it. The way inferno is right now is just a useless cakewalk lvl up. By the end of Hell you can most likely get thru MP1 if you tried maybe even MP 2 or 3 depending on the gear you found in Hell.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I have a strong thought that this is what their current idea is:
Normal
Torment
Inferno
Like TicklishCorn mentioned that the in-game Tip for unlocking Nightmare no longer exists. But also all the achievements that you see there in the Datamined strings already exist with Nightmare!
"Kill Butcher in less than 2 minutes on Nightmare or higher" something along those lines, only they have replaced Nightmare with Torment.
Nightmare is DEFINITELY being replaced with Torment.
Blizzard also mentioned at some point a few months back (can't find source, sorry) that they said they were considering the community's proposal of removing an entire difficulty because 4 times is just too much. I am pretty sure they want to keep Inferno as the highest difficulty because that way it can still stay around as the difficulty everybody talks about and plays on, also when they remove Nightmare and use Torment, Diablo 3 has it's only difficulty names and it just adds that tiny bit more difference between Diablo 2 and 3.
So in short, there will be only 3 difficulties, Normal first, then Torment, then Inferno for endgame.
God, I hope it's not a 5th difficulty ... that would suck. I think 4 is a lot more than there should be. 3 was a fine number in Diablo 2.
Agreed. 4 is too much.
Tbh. i almost hope they will reduce it to 2 in the next expansion. Although if they raise the lvl cap to 80, then you would have to have 79 lvl-ups in a single difficulty, which is probably a bit too often, even with 6 acts.
Or they could remove levels and just have 1 difficulty !
Don't be ridiculous
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Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Or they could remove levels and just have 1 difficulty !
And while we're at it, why not remove items and different classes and call it a fps
From a nostalgic point of view I wouldn't like to see the classics Nightmare and Hell go, I'd rather have them reworked instead of getting replaced by their new age cousins. But I think, having 3 difficulties would be better than 5, though you have to keep in mind, that they need both lvl up and farming areas for vanilla and expansion chars. So, Inferno as is, would have to stay for vanilla guys, whether it remains in the game as "Inferno" or gets renamed, and expansion guys will need a place to lvl to 70 and a place beyond that.
What I could imagine:
Normal a1-a5: lvl 1-35,
Nightmare a1-a5: reach lvl 60,
Nightmare MP1+: all mobs lvl63 like current Inferno MP1+
Hell a1-a5: reach lvl70,
Hell MP1+: all mobs lvl73 similar to current Inferno.
I know, the difficulties won't keep thes names, but it's my idea, so I'd keep them as well
Also consider it unlikely, that they'll reduce vanilla players to only two difficulties, but I don't see a possibility for them to have as many difficulties as expansion players.
This is nothing but speculation, but I can see them revamping difficulties. Removing the requirement of defeating the one to unlock the other and simply giving players the ability to switch between them as difficulties in other games let you do. I can see Monster Power being removed as an option and being integrated into the difficulties themselves. Much like it is on the console version. You start your game and choose your difficulty.
That would explain adding a 5th difficulty, removing the requirement from the tooltip and giving the players that feel they don't want to play past Normal a great answer.
This is nothing but speculation, but I can see them revamping difficulties. Removing the requirement of defeating the one to unlock the other and simply giving players the ability to switch between them as difficulties in other games let you do. I can see Monster Power being removed as an option and being integrated into the difficulties themselves. Much like it is on the console version. You start your game and choose your difficulty.
That would explain adding a 5th difficulty, removing the requirement from the tooltip and giving the players that feel they don't want to play past Normal a great answer.
This is nothing but speculation, but I can see them revamping difficulties. Removing the requirement of defeating the one to unlock the other and simply giving players the ability to switch between them as difficulties in other games let you do. I can see Monster Power being removed as an option and being integrated into the difficulties themselves.
I don't think that they will remove the unlocking tier difficulties because each difficulty has its own set of items associated with it (it's hard to notice because you can't see item types on rares or legendaries). I think they're going to rework them, though, because 4 difficulties plus 10 monster powers is just too much. They suggested as much at Gamescom. I think we'll get an official announcement at Blizzcon.
I'm drawing the line here though, if they just add a fifth difficulty I'm out.
This is nothing but speculation, but I can see them revamping difficulties. Removing the requirement of defeating the one to unlock the other and simply giving players the ability to switch between them as difficulties in other games let you do. I can see Monster Power being removed as an option and being integrated into the difficulties themselves. Much like it is on the console version. You start your game and choose your difficulty.
That would explain adding a 5th difficulty, removing the requirement from the tooltip and giving the players that feel they don't want to play past Normal a great answer.
This is nothing but speculation, but I can see them revamping difficulties. Removing the requirement of defeating the one to unlock the other and simply giving players the ability to switch between them as difficulties in other games let you do. I can see Monster Power being removed as an option and being integrated into the difficulties themselves.
I don't think that they will remove the unlocking tier difficulties because each difficulty has its own set of items associated with it (it's hard to notice because you can't see item types on rares or legendaries). I think they're going to rework them, though, because 4 difficulties plus 10 monster powers is just too much. They suggested as much at Gamescom. I think we'll get an official announcement at Blizzcon.
I'm drawing the line here though, if they just add a fifth difficulty I'm out.
Good point but don't forget they are revamping itemization so that nullifies any current sets within difficulties.
Also to go off of both people that got quoted here, I'm also really hoping monster power gets a revamp. 10 is too high of a ceiling and really a lot of MP's feel the same. I would like to seem them condense it and change it to the Master I-V they have on console, or something else.
Should include Spoiler tags in your thread name, and call it Difficulty changes[Spoilers] so as not to spoil it for anyone that wouldn't want it spoiled. INB4 you say it's on the front page, not everyone reads those posts specifically because they say spoiler all over them and they dont want things ruined for when the game releases.
On topic though I think its a way to give an uber difficulty. Unlocked at the end of Inferno Lv 70 you can get achievments for completing it but it doesn't count as beating the game. Beating the game is just inferno. Torment is probably going to be PRe Inferno nerf so that it truly is a torment to get through. At least this is what I hope it is. I mean I think pre-inferno was actually challanging and therefore rewarding when you could beat it. The way inferno is right now is just a useless cakewalk lvl up. By the end of Hell you can most likely get thru MP1 if you tried maybe even MP 2 or 3 depending on the gear you found in Hell.
It's not a lore spoiler so no. Just no. If they add a new difficulty to the game then I am definitely not buying this expansion. A new difficulty is not going to add any more pleasure or enjoyment to the game. It is already frustrating enough to play 4 difficulties that are exactly identical in content.
I always said Blizzard made out in this game. They only had to make 1/4 of the game. Because we play that 1/4 of the game four times over. All they had to do was bump up the damage and HP of the mobs and called it a full game.
If they made a 5th difficulty then in reality Blizzard just turned their 1/4 of the game to 1/5.
I always said Blizzard made out in this game. They only had to make 1/4 of the game. Because we play that 1/4 of the game four times over. All they had to do was bump up the damage and HP of the mobs and called it a full game.
If they made a 5th difficulty then in reality Blizzard just turned their 1/4 of the game to 1/5.
Really crappy way to make a game. Lazy too.
Except that's not what the game was about? There are quite a few people that spent more time in the last difficulty than hundreds of people spent in all 4 difficulties combined.
My point is for every 10 people you show me that stop playing once they complete the game once, twice or even 4 times. I can show you somebody that has spent more time in the last difficulty than those 10 have combined hours played multiple times over.
As for the OP, I'm with the Torment = Nightmare+ hell combined camp. I think monster power works perfectly for what inferno was designed to accomplish and because of that there is no need for more difficulties.
Except that's not what the game was about? There are quite a few people that spent more time in the last difficulty than hundreds of people spent in all 4 difficulties combined.
It just would have been nice if they made each difficulty a little bit different. Maybe in normal we fight Zoltun Kulle. In nightmare we fight his father. In hell we fight his grandfather. In inferno we fight the first of his bloodline. I don't know. Something like that.
I found it extremely boring fighting the same people with the same story for each difficulty.
It just would have been nice if they made each difficulty a little bit different. Maybe in normal we fight Zoltun Kulle. In nightmare we fight his father. In hell we fight his grandfather. In inferno we fight the first of his bloodline. I don't know. Something like that.
I found it extremely boring fighting the same people with the same story for each difficulty.
Errrr.....
Why change something from the two previous games that absolutely didn't need to be changed? Normal/Nightmare/Hell worked just fine, in fact it's pretty obvious that adding Inferno wasn't the greatest of ideas.
I never heard anyone whine about D2 that they wanted to fight Mephisto's grandfather on Hell mode. Quite a bizarre suggestion.
I never heard anyone whine about D2 that they wanted to fight Mephisto's grandfather on Hell mode. Quite a bizarre suggestion.
Not understanding why you call this whining. This is a discussion on the different difficulties. People are saying whats on their mind. I was doing the same.
Except that's not what the game was about? There are quite a few people that spent more time in the last difficulty than hundreds of people spent in all 4 difficulties combined.
It just would have been nice if they made each difficulty a little bit different. Maybe in normal we fight Zoltun Kulle. In nightmare we fight his father. In hell we fight his grandfather. In inferno we fight the first of his bloodline. I don't know. Something like that.
I found it extremely boring fighting the same people with the same story for each difficulty.
I agree if you're playing the game for story alone, I can see that as being an ideal situation. However, as far as I go, Blizzard would be wasting resources doing such a thing.
I don't care much for the story progression, it's interesting once and that's it. It's not even a selling point to me and most of the people I know that play the game. I played WoW for quite some time and I didn't give a crap about the backstory of the bosses. I only cared about gameplay and engaging/difficult encounters. (I didn't care about loot either unless it was required for an encounter)
In Diablo a game centered around loot and farming, there isn't really any room for lore as a focal point.
Except that's not what the game was about? There are quite a few people that spent more time in the last difficulty than hundreds of people spent in all 4 difficulties combined.
It just would have been nice if they made each difficulty a little bit different. Maybe in normal we fight Zoltun Kulle. In nightmare we fight his father. In hell we fight his grandfather. In inferno we fight the first of his bloodline. I don't know. Something like that.
I found it extremely boring fighting the same people with the same story for each difficulty.
I can respect that. Diablo 3 comes from a lineage where the story just isn't that important. It's kind of like an arcade game in that sense; that's why it sucks so much that they made this version so scripted, with all the stupid events and cutscenes, and how you have to "pick a spot in the story" before you start any given game.
I agree with you in the sense that the final difficulty needs more stuff that is unique to that difficulty, like the Key Wardens. They also need to bring back that world event that triggered when enough SoJs were sold, and Super Diablo (or whatever) just dropped into your game.
The original inferno was a great idea; super hard mode to test your character. The problem was, it required too much unrewarding grinding. 99% of the stuff you needed to progress in Inferno, was in Inferno, so it was a catch-22. Only 1% (probably less) of what dropped in Hell mode would help you in Inferno. It just sucked. If you want to have something like original inferno, you need something like today's inferno where you can go farm up that uber set you need to rock the oldschool inferno, if you see what I mean.
Did you guys miss the removal of nightmare mode hinted at in there? And that the threads for torment are for torment or higher? I think they are combining nightmare and hell into torment so it's 3 play throughs, not 5.
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Having completed Act IV Inferno on several toons, I felt it would only be necessary to tackle Act V on Inferno difficulty - which diminishes the Diablo experience.
On one hand, an extra difficulty setting gives me more to do with my Lvl 60 characters when the expansion comes out. - which is a good thing.
On the other, if I want to level a new character from scratch, I have to complete 5 difficulty setttings to get to "end game". That's a LOT of repetition. I feel the difficulties should be scaled to a maximum of 3 settings - therefore Torment/Inferno difficulty should be the Hell mode setting, or you should be able to skip difficulty settings if your toon can handle it.
I think the MP setting scales the difficulty experience without having to add ANOTHER difficulty setting.
What are other peoples thoughts?
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
"TIP024 - Defeating Normal difficulty will unlock the next difficulty setting, Nightmare. (THIS TIP IS NO LONGER IN THE GAME FILES)"
No idea why they would remove that tip but not the other ones regarding difficulty advancement.
On topic though I think its a way to give an uber difficulty. Unlocked at the end of Inferno Lv 70 you can get achievments for completing it but it doesn't count as beating the game. Beating the game is just inferno. Torment is probably going to be PRe Inferno nerf so that it truly is a torment to get through. At least this is what I hope it is. I mean I think pre-inferno was actually challanging and therefore rewarding when you could beat it. The way inferno is right now is just a useless cakewalk lvl up. By the end of Hell you can most likely get thru MP1 if you tried maybe even MP 2 or 3 depending on the gear you found in Hell.
Normal
Torment
Inferno
Like TicklishCorn mentioned that the in-game Tip for unlocking Nightmare no longer exists. But also all the achievements that you see there in the Datamined strings already exist with Nightmare!
"Kill Butcher in less than 2 minutes on Nightmare or higher" something along those lines, only they have replaced Nightmare with Torment.
Nightmare is DEFINITELY being replaced with Torment.
Blizzard also mentioned at some point a few months back (can't find source, sorry) that they said they were considering the community's proposal of removing an entire difficulty because 4 times is just too much. I am pretty sure they want to keep Inferno as the highest difficulty because that way it can still stay around as the difficulty everybody talks about and plays on, also when they remove Nightmare and use Torment, Diablo 3 has it's only difficulty names and it just adds that tiny bit more difference between Diablo 2 and 3.
So in short, there will be only 3 difficulties, Normal first, then Torment, then Inferno for endgame.
This.
Also,. Why do you call characters for "toons", this is not WoW and nothing like Bugs Bunny.
:: Enkeria [Twitter / Twitch / Website / Tattoos]
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
And while we're at it, why not remove items and different classes and call it a fps
From a nostalgic point of view I wouldn't like to see the classics Nightmare and Hell go, I'd rather have them reworked instead of getting replaced by their new age cousins. But I think, having 3 difficulties would be better than 5, though you have to keep in mind, that they need both lvl up and farming areas for vanilla and expansion chars. So, Inferno as is, would have to stay for vanilla guys, whether it remains in the game as "Inferno" or gets renamed, and expansion guys will need a place to lvl to 70 and a place beyond that.
What I could imagine:
Normal a1-a5: lvl 1-35,
Nightmare a1-a5: reach lvl 60,
Nightmare MP1+: all mobs lvl63 like current Inferno MP1+
Hell a1-a5: reach lvl70,
Hell MP1+: all mobs lvl73 similar to current Inferno.
I know, the difficulties won't keep thes names, but it's my idea, so I'd keep them as well
Also consider it unlikely, that they'll reduce vanilla players to only two difficulties, but I don't see a possibility for them to have as many difficulties as expansion players.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
That would explain adding a 5th difficulty, removing the requirement from the tooltip and giving the players that feel they don't want to play past Normal a great answer.
Ha. Bagstone.
I don't think that they will remove the unlocking tier difficulties because each difficulty has its own set of items associated with it (it's hard to notice because you can't see item types on rares or legendaries). I think they're going to rework them, though, because 4 difficulties plus 10 monster powers is just too much. They suggested as much at Gamescom. I think we'll get an official announcement at Blizzcon.
I'm drawing the line here though, if they just add a fifth difficulty I'm out.
Good point but don't forget they are revamping itemization so that nullifies any current sets within difficulties.
Also to go off of both people that got quoted here, I'm also really hoping monster power gets a revamp. 10 is too high of a ceiling and really a lot of MP's feel the same. I would like to seem them condense it and change it to the Master I-V they have on console, or something else.
It's not a lore spoiler so no. Just no. If they add a new difficulty to the game then I am definitely not buying this expansion. A new difficulty is not going to add any more pleasure or enjoyment to the game. It is already frustrating enough to play 4 difficulties that are exactly identical in content.
If they made a 5th difficulty then in reality Blizzard just turned their 1/4 of the game to 1/5.
Really crappy way to make a game. Lazy too.
Except that's not what the game was about? There are quite a few people that spent more time in the last difficulty than hundreds of people spent in all 4 difficulties combined.
My point is for every 10 people you show me that stop playing once they complete the game once, twice or even 4 times. I can show you somebody that has spent more time in the last difficulty than those 10 have combined hours played multiple times over.
As for the OP, I'm with the Torment = Nightmare+ hell combined camp. I think monster power works perfectly for what inferno was designed to accomplish and because of that there is no need for more difficulties.
It just would have been nice if they made each difficulty a little bit different. Maybe in normal we fight Zoltun Kulle. In nightmare we fight his father. In hell we fight his grandfather. In inferno we fight the first of his bloodline. I don't know. Something like that.
I found it extremely boring fighting the same people with the same story for each difficulty.
Errrr.....
Why change something from the two previous games that absolutely didn't need to be changed? Normal/Nightmare/Hell worked just fine, in fact it's pretty obvious that adding Inferno wasn't the greatest of ideas.
I never heard anyone whine about D2 that they wanted to fight Mephisto's grandfather on Hell mode. Quite a bizarre suggestion.
Not understanding why you call this whining. This is a discussion on the different difficulties. People are saying whats on their mind. I was doing the same.
I agree if you're playing the game for story alone, I can see that as being an ideal situation. However, as far as I go, Blizzard would be wasting resources doing such a thing.
I don't care much for the story progression, it's interesting once and that's it. It's not even a selling point to me and most of the people I know that play the game. I played WoW for quite some time and I didn't give a crap about the backstory of the bosses. I only cared about gameplay and engaging/difficult encounters. (I didn't care about loot either unless it was required for an encounter)
In Diablo a game centered around loot and farming, there isn't really any room for lore as a focal point.
I can respect that. Diablo 3 comes from a lineage where the story just isn't that important. It's kind of like an arcade game in that sense; that's why it sucks so much that they made this version so scripted, with all the stupid events and cutscenes, and how you have to "pick a spot in the story" before you start any given game.
I agree with you in the sense that the final difficulty needs more stuff that is unique to that difficulty, like the Key Wardens. They also need to bring back that world event that triggered when enough SoJs were sold, and Super Diablo (or whatever) just dropped into your game.
The original inferno was a great idea; super hard mode to test your character. The problem was, it required too much unrewarding grinding. 99% of the stuff you needed to progress in Inferno, was in Inferno, so it was a catch-22. Only 1% (probably less) of what dropped in Hell mode would help you in Inferno. It just sucked. If you want to have something like original inferno, you need something like today's inferno where you can go farm up that uber set you need to rock the oldschool inferno, if you see what I mean.