The title says it all, for a character such as Deckard Cain, you'd think they'd have put some emotion into his death. It just didn't make me go "nooooo cain!!'.
If you want to watch it again without going into the game:
It just seems strange and bland in the way they did it. Like they just tossed his death aside. With a company like blizzard, with the work they've done in the past, they're known worldwide for their amazing cinematics and all they do for Cain is some silly in-game cut-scene? I'm no game developer and I'm not going to tell them how to do their job, but as one of their consumers, not happy Jan!
Now I know that some of us don't like comparing two completely different games so I'm not going to do that! If we look at such games as Gears of War 3 and look at how Dominic Santiago died whether you like the game or not I don't care, they made his death really epic, no pun intended.
This is the clip.
The games have absolutely nothing in common, I know. But both had one thing in common, they were with you through each of the games. A character like Deckard Cain, someone who's been at our side throughout all three games, you'd think they'd put a little bit more compassion and effort into his death?
Anyway Deckard Cain's death is the only thing that really got under my skin with Diablo 3.
TL;DR: Deckard Cain's death sucked.
This whole thing is badly worded, but you get what I'm saying.
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Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Well it's not as epic as bio shock either and that was a shooter. The ending was way more epic than Cain's death. Overall, I love diablo 3, but they definitely could have made his death much more memorable.
I agree with op. It's not necessarily that the death was lackluster in itself. It's that it was given a friggin in game cut-scene while we get an epic cinematic of Leah trying to figure out what the black soulstone is.
Off-topic: How excellent was the end of Act 1 cinematic with Tyrael?
I"ve blasted people complaining about this game before, but I do wonder how they kind of missed the mark on how epic they could have made this. I'm in hell now so I have seen the story, and I gotta say I wasn't all that impressed with it. To be fair however, there were spoilers out that kind of ruined everything even though I didn't open them (titel was enough). I think it's the fact that we all waited 10 or so years for this game and we wanted something that drops your jaw. Blizzard has the capability, but i'm not sure what their aim was.
I do hope an expansion comes soon and really picks the story up a bit... there's no reason this game cannot be epic with an expansion. Additionally, I would like to know for those who played D2 was there a lot of content added from the LOD expansion from the original?
> tells that he does not want to tell them how to do their job
> reminds of blizzards epic cinematics and critizes this cutscene
> tells that he is not going to compare with other titles
> posts vid of GoW3 and D3 and how epic doms death was
> tells games have "absolutely nothing" in common
> both had "one thing" in common
> tells "no pun intended"
> "TL;DR: Deckard Cain's death sucked."
> mfw
indeed, I am an idiot. oh well
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).
What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.
To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).
What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.
I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.
To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).
What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.
I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.
Yeah but at least that was a really cool fight, Cain's death didn't even look like they put effort into it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).
What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.
I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.
Yeah, I kinda understand the reason WHY they did it, but I still think they shouldn't have, because the in game engine is not capable of decent cinematics. The fight between Illidan and Arthas wasn't good. It wasn't even exciting. Further, the in game cinematics from War3 and SC2 are slightly different. They were either from the RTS camera angle, in which case there weren't any "acting" beyond the talking, so it was at least passable, or they were the ones in SC2 that were, even if built in the in game engine, specifically built for the cutscene - along with body language and motion. The ones in D3 are close enough that it is weird if they don't do anything, and close enough to show off bad/reused body language, mostly using stock motions. This is one thing that bothers me about CGI in a lot of games and movies - just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. If the CGI is so bad it distracts, then you should probably find another way to do it.
The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.
The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.
Well, at least it wasn't to Ghom. He could have been sat on, eaten alive, killed and fed to other prisoners then they get eaten, suffocated in Ghom's gas clouds, or killed by his stomach acid slimes or whatever those are supposed to be...
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Non nobis, Domine, non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam.
The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.
Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.
But that goes down a whole other path that I thought they were going - Leah slowly breaks down from killing her uncle/all the crazy horrors she's seen/Diablo poisoning her mind, and starts to resent the PC/Tyreal/Adria because Deckard died for no reasons, as the end of the world isn't coming and/or there aren't actually angels and demons fighting a proxy war through us (which is how I read her comments that "no of this is real," not dismissing the fact that monsters exists, as so many people assume, but that the end times aren't upon us, and the forces of Hell and Heaven aren't fighting a proxy war in Sanctuary). All this could have been building subtly (maybe we get a cinematic or two where we wander by Leah and she's talking to herself, and for some reason we can hear that one of the voices is Diablo, and we can tell that because its slightly demonic reverbed), until at the end of Act 3, where she voluntairly takes the BSS, stabs it into herself, becomes Diablo, kills Adria, and runs off to Heaven.
The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.
Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.
But that goes down a whole other path that I thought they were going - Leah slowly breaks down from killing her uncle/all the crazy horrors she's seen/Diablo poisoning her mind, and starts to resent the PC/Tyreal/Adria because Deckard died for no reasons, as the end of the world isn't coming and/or there aren't actually angels and demons fighting a proxy war through us (which is how I read her comments that "no of this is real," not dismissing the fact that monsters exists, as so many people assume, but that the end times aren't upon us, and the forces of Hell and Heaven aren't fighting a proxy war in Sanctuary). All this could have been building subtly (maybe we get a cinematic or two where we wander by Leah and she's talking to herself, and for some reason we can hear that one of the voices is Diablo, and we can tell that because its slightly demonic reverbed), until at the end of Act 3, where she voluntairly takes the BSS, stabs it into herself, becomes Diablo, kills Adria, and runs off to Heaven.
THAT, would have been one hell of a story
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.
I'm wondering how you're using the word "technically", because Leah never once hints at remorse over accidentally causing Cain's death. Rather she's upset that she wasn't able to use her power sooner to drive off Maghda and prevent the evil butterfly magic from being cast. He regret was explicitly that she couldn't "save" Cain, not that she killed him. (Although I agree, that idea has vastly more potential.)
Don't ask me why her demonic explosions only affect certain people, I too was wondering why when wrestling with the soulstone in act 3, gaurds standing right next to adria and tyreal keel over and die, while they and our player are unaffected.
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If you want to watch it again without going into the game:
It just seems strange and bland in the way they did it. Like they just tossed his death aside. With a company like blizzard, with the work they've done in the past, they're known worldwide for their amazing cinematics and all they do for Cain is some silly in-game cut-scene? I'm no game developer and I'm not going to tell them how to do their job, but as one of their consumers, not happy Jan!
Now I know that some of us don't like comparing two completely different games so I'm not going to do that! If we look at such games as Gears of War 3 and look at how Dominic Santiago died whether you like the game or not I don't care, they made his death really epic, no pun intended.
This is the clip.
The games have absolutely nothing in common, I know. But both had one thing in common, they were with you through each of the games. A character like Deckard Cain, someone who's been at our side throughout all three games, you'd think they'd put a little bit more compassion and effort into his death?
Anyway Deckard Cain's death is the only thing that really got under my skin with Diablo 3.
TL;DR: Deckard Cain's death sucked.
This whole thing is badly worded, but you get what I'm saying.
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Off-topic: How excellent was the end of Act 1 cinematic with Tyrael?
I do hope an expansion comes soon and really picks the story up a bit... there's no reason this game cannot be epic with an expansion. Additionally, I would like to know for those who played D2 was there a lot of content added from the LOD expansion from the original?
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
I do agree that Cain's death was really lackluster. None of the Diablo III cinematics really wowed me.
I still think the Act V ending cinematic from DII was the coolest in the whole series. Badass Tyrael, epic music, explosions, etc.
What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.
I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
Yeah, I kinda understand the reason WHY they did it, but I still think they shouldn't have, because the in game engine is not capable of decent cinematics. The fight between Illidan and Arthas wasn't good. It wasn't even exciting. Further, the in game cinematics from War3 and SC2 are slightly different. They were either from the RTS camera angle, in which case there weren't any "acting" beyond the talking, so it was at least passable, or they were the ones in SC2 that were, even if built in the in game engine, specifically built for the cutscene - along with body language and motion. The ones in D3 are close enough that it is weird if they don't do anything, and close enough to show off bad/reused body language, mostly using stock motions. This is one thing that bothers me about CGI in a lot of games and movies - just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. If the CGI is so bad it distracts, then you should probably find another way to do it.
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Well, at least it wasn't to Ghom. He could have been sat on, eaten alive, killed and fed to other prisoners then they get eaten, suffocated in Ghom's gas clouds, or killed by his stomach acid slimes or whatever those are supposed to be...
Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.
But that goes down a whole other path that I thought they were going - Leah slowly breaks down from killing her uncle/all the crazy horrors she's seen/Diablo poisoning her mind, and starts to resent the PC/Tyreal/Adria because Deckard died for no reasons, as the end of the world isn't coming and/or there aren't actually angels and demons fighting a proxy war through us (which is how I read her comments that "no of this is real," not dismissing the fact that monsters exists, as so many people assume, but that the end times aren't upon us, and the forces of Hell and Heaven aren't fighting a proxy war in Sanctuary). All this could have been building subtly (maybe we get a cinematic or two where we wander by Leah and she's talking to herself, and for some reason we can hear that one of the voices is Diablo, and we can tell that because its slightly demonic reverbed), until at the end of Act 3, where she voluntairly takes the BSS, stabs it into herself, becomes Diablo, kills Adria, and runs off to Heaven.
Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."
"Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
I'm wondering how you're using the word "technically", because Leah never once hints at remorse over accidentally causing Cain's death. Rather she's upset that she wasn't able to use her power sooner to drive off Maghda and prevent the evil butterfly magic from being cast. He regret was explicitly that she couldn't "save" Cain, not that she killed him. (Although I agree, that idea has vastly more potential.)
Don't ask me why her demonic explosions only affect certain people, I too was wondering why when wrestling with the soulstone in act 3, gaurds standing right next to adria and tyreal keel over and die, while they and our player are unaffected.