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    posted a message on Enchantress hinting at expansion at the end?
    Quote from Darcy_Maris

    Then you (yeah, you) destroyed Diablo and thus the Black Soulstone. Or so I assume. There is no reference to you destroying it but none is there any reference to it being still in once piece....

    I wouldn't know where you'd have to go, but I'm pretty sure Blizzard personnel have come forth and explicitly clarified that the BS is still intact. (You can see it falling through the clouds or whatever if you look close) Just put in my CE Behind the Scenes DVD, here is the Storyboard showing the soulstone is definitely still in one piece after Diablo disintegrated.

    "But the Black Soulstone is flawed and cannot contain that many demons for long. We must capture Azmodan within it and shatter it... lest all these Evils be reborn."

    As for Tathamet coming back, remember that this game was codenamed 'Project Hydra.'
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Enchantress hinting at expansion at the end?
    And Btw, wasn't the missing angel the prophet?

    The missing Angiris council member? That would be Malthael, former aspect of Wisdom.

    He's pretty much an enigma. It will be interesting to see what they have planned for him. Personally, I have him coming back as the Aspect of Death and siding with Imperius against the nephalem.

    Tyrael:Long ago, when Inarius and his ilk stole the Worldstone to create Sanctuary, Malthael became consumed with discovering its whereabouts.
    As the archangel of Wisdom, he was tortured by his inability to recover the sacred artifact.
    Where is he now?
    Some say he haunts the silent halls of Pandemonium, forever seeking answers to the unknowable mysteries of life and death.


    The Enchantress' Prophet is likely Inarius, but I don't think there was ever confirmation of such.

    You know, I wrote some posts about where the expansions might be headed. I think I overlooked or dismissed this Enchantress bit, lemme look that up.
    Enchantress Eirena:
    I spoke to Itherael, and he helped me translate the document. It was written by an angel who saw promise in humanity...
    He began to teach a group of young women who had killed the daemons their masters summoned...
    You and your sisters?
    Enchantress Eirena:
    None other. The Prophet I have followed for so many years... He was an angel!
    That is why you knew Tyrael was an angel.
    Enchantress Eirena:
    Yes... but I do not know whether the Prophet was the dying angel I met or not. The writings say that he worked in absolute secrecy. Itherael knew nothing of them.
    Then you must find a new path through the world without him.
    Enchantress Eirena:
    You are right. And I hope that path will still be with you, my friend,

    Okay, maybe not, as they apparently translated it already. I was thinking it may have been given to her so she could fully decipher the End of Days prophecy, but I guess not. (Been a while since I've dabbled in Diablo lore :hehe: )

    I don't really know what role Eirena will play in the future story (I think there's a chance some of her sisters lived, I don't think she checked them all?), but suffice it to say we should be seeing angels and demons fighting on Sanctuary, likely starting with the end cinematic for X1.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Leah (Spoilers)
    Here's what the creators of the game said on the matter in the Behind the Scenes DVD (paraphrased a bit):

    "Since she was a little girl, Cain's been roaming around this map looking for pieces of this prophecy of the End Days. All that while, he's teaching Leah to be his apprentice. He would have been constantly talking to her about this prophecy, you know, 'At the End of Days, Angels and Demons will fight on the land of Man' but she has never seen angels or demons so she doesn't believe it, but at the same time she closes her eyes and sees these nightmares and doesn't know if they are real or just her uncle's stories blending together."

    "Leah eventually has to come to terms that everything he had been telling her was real, and she finally realizes that and starts fulfilling this and becomes this new Cain for us. Tyrael, as a mortal now, begins to rely on Leah as that Deckard Cain role. Together, they help pretty much uncover Diablo's maneuverings and what he's been planning under the surface of all of this all along."

    So, yeah, she was basically the Sanctuary equivalent of an internet user screaming PROOF!!!!!!! or not believing that anyone, ever, could be related to or personally know someone 'famous.'

    The worst part is at one point she specifically talks about dragging Uncle away from a horde of skeletons or something years? before the Metyrael falls, but those must have just been stories too.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Adria more powerful than we know? (Spoilers)
    I didn't believe that Diablo became Tathamet in the first place. I don't see this as possible within the lore. Following his death, the seven heads of Tathamet spawned the Great Evils. His headless corpse became the Burning Hells. I don't see how Tathamet could become whole again. If Diablo did transform into Tathamet, wouldn't he have been unstoppable? Wouldn't Sanctuary have burned? I don't think that anyone but Anu himself would be capable of stopping Tathamet. Plus, if Diablo did become Tathamet during the events of Diablo III, I'm sure that they wouldn't have left us guessing. Shit would have been explicitly stated during the narrative of Act IV.

    Yeah that's one thing that they did kind of strangely, hyping Diablo as the Prime Evil and this super mega badass. On other forums, I've seen people saying things like 'lol how can there be an expansion, we killed the prime evil' 'yeah right, we killed the prime evil and now we gonna fight the sin lieutenants or something?'

    They should have done a better job of explaining what exactly the Prime Evil was in context of Diablo's 'prime evil' aka all the evils in his body. (Or Leah's body I guess technically :hehe: ) Especially since they have Tyrael randomly mentioning Tathamet (which like you said, should have roflstomped whatever went against him, unless we are to believe one Nephalem is that powerful) when asked what the Prime Evil refers to. I guess that may be intentional though, as it seems 'prime evil' seems to refer to a few different things, like in that quote from one of the devs the 7 Evils are all 'prime evils,' the 3 brothers are also the 'prime evils,' then of course the 7 Evils in one body is the 'prime evil' and Tathamet was the original Prime Evil.

    I'm not sure if it ended up in the game, but in the beta files Diablo had bunch of curses from the other Evils:
    Diablo_CurseOfAnguish_name Curse Of Anguish
    Diablo_CurseOfDestruction_name Curse Of Destruction
    Diablo_CurseOfHate_name Curse Of Hate
    Diablo_CurseOfPain_name Curse Of Pain

    Adria has undoubtably been lying through her teeth. We shouldn't trust anything we have heard from her. I went from loving Adria as a character in Diablo to despising her as a character in Diablo III. I can't wait to embed a knife in her skull with my DH.

    I don't think that we know what is going on at all. I think that the expansions to Diablo III are going to blow us away. I'm hyped as fuck because I am dying to see how this shit plays out.

    Thank you for the insight. You know, this is exactly why I joined DiabloFans in the first place. I've been craving lore discussion such as this for a long time.

    Lastly, Pyrrhic, you should read Diablo III: The Order by Nate Kenyon.

    I'm definitely looking forward to the expansion, not just for the inevitable new features, but to see where this story is headed. Sucks that it is likely over a year away still, but we'll probably get some info on it sooner than that. (Probably will get the name first via trademarking like with Mists of Pandaria, a 'blue' then saying "Well, usually when we trademark names like Diablo 3: Queen of the Abyss, it's for a Diablo series book or comic." and then the official press release comes out a bit later confirming Queen of the Abyss or whatever is the expansion.)

    At least with DiabloFans, you know the people here should be, well, fans of Diablo, and if they are wandering into the Lore & Storyline forum, they should be interested in the lore and story. As I mentioned earlier about the 'other forums,' other night I looked at a 'what will the expansion be' topic, and they were discussing why Westmarch is more than likely going to be a setting (which it seems is probably 98% chance that it is, unless they pull a fast one and just happened to have 2/3 followers have strong ties to it, with their plotlines both ending with them wanting to go there or you going there with them) and saw some jagoff saying something like "lol u guys probably think the stuff ur foloowers say is releveant too." (Which is hilariously stupid, especially when you watch that Behind the Scenes thing about how they went about telling the story while still letting it be a fast-paced game, and how they wanted the followers to be involved characters.)

    I'll probably pick up the Diablo books at some point, but currently I am reading WW I era or earlier books since I've always found the Great War intriguing and most of them are free for my Kindle.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on D1/D2 References
    Cut-content, or was there actually a Paladin in the game?


    For the Butcher thing, a popular opinion I've seen around the forums is that Butcher should have been swapped with Skeleton King. You have the majority of Act I focused on Leoric's lore, and end up taking him down very early, then just get the Butcher tossed in there.

    Granted, it's probably kind of tricky to reference what was a playable character in a sequel rather than an NPC. Cause it's not like the Necro would've had an official name or anything

    The Sorceress was given a name in the Wizard's short story, Isendra. Also, 'not all of them' are alive.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Adria more powerful than we know? (Spoilers)
    Quote from GeNMaKB

    I am glad that my topic has spawned such excellent discussion. I do not have the time to read through everything right now (fucking dentist) but I will later tonight. My interest is definitely piqued. From what I have read of your post already, Pyrrhic, you deserve a +1. It is nice to know that there are people out there that find the lore of Diablo as interesting as I do.

    Edit: I thought that the souls of Mephisto, Diablo and Baal were trapped in the abyss, following the events of Diablo II: Lord of Destruction. How did Adria mark their souls for capture within the Black Soulstone?

    In the Behind the Scenes DVD, they talk about how they were throwing around ideas for what to do with the story, and they decided that since the Dark Exile, Diablo has been conspiring to kill off the other Evils and unite all their souls into one body, his body.

    Paraphrased a bit for some quotes (bold is my emphasis):

    "Leah represents innocence. Leah represents hope. She is smart, she is resourceful, she has powers of her own. She represents everything that humanity can be."

    "What happens to Leah is sort of the ultimate tragedy and is what is going to happen to everybody if you, the player, doesn't stop it."
    (The people will die, or they will become hosts for demons/corrupted...?)

    "One of the guys had this idea for this kind of cool NPC girl you meet out in the woods with a bow, and there was some suggestion, that she might have been the daughter of the Wanderer from Diablo 2"

    "Her mother was the witch Adria, Adria was a character that occurred in Diablo 1. I think we look at her as this woman who was obsessed with the occult, the arcanum. You know, chasing mysteries and magical powers over the course of her life."

    "She meets with the Dark Wanderer and falls in love with him, and at this point he has been corrupted by Diablo, and she bears his child, and this child is Leah.."

    "It was clear that she was not fit to be a mother, and potentially she had her own dark mission, such that Adria gave up Leah for adoption."

    "Ultimately it was Cain that recognized this baby was very special and kept her safe for the past twenty years."

    "He potentially knows that evil is lurking within her, but because he carries so much guilt from the past games, trying to help people understand that the sky is falling, and not really taking action, he felt he needed to take her on and raise her the right way. And on the other hand, he knew if this girl so much as looked sideways, he knew it would be his job to take her out."

    "Since she was a little girl, Cain's been roaming around this map looking for pieces of this prophecy of the End Days. All that while, he's teaching Leah to be his apprentice. He would have been constantly talking to her about this prophecy, you know, 'At the End of Days, angels and demons will fight on the land of man.' but she has never seen angels or demons so she doesn't believe it, but at the same time she closes her eyes and sees these nightmares and doesn't know if they are real or just her uncle's stories blending together."
    (Yep, called it that the End of Days isn't fully manifested :tyrael: )

    "Leah eventually has to come to terms that everything he had been telling her was real, and she finally realizes that and starts fulfilling this and becomes this new Cain for us. Tyrael, as a mortal now, begins to rely on Leah as that Deckard Cain role. Together, they help pretty much uncover Diablo's maneuverings and what he's been planning under the surface of all of this all along."

    "In trying to solve this riddle of how Diablo comes back again, we kind of had the idea that maybe this time he comes back through his mortal offspring."

    "All the way back to the Great Exile, this has all been Diablo's plan. At a certain point he discovered the idea of the Prime, the idea that all the Evils can become one, and become exponentially more powerful than they had ever been before, and that essentially the last 300 or so years have been his plan to off all the other Evils."

    "For the first time all the essences of these 7 prime evils now, go into Leah and she turns into Diablo and becomes the one prime evil."
    (That's a direct quote, confirming that the Diablo in game was not the Prime Evil aka Tathamet, and just all the 'essences' supercharging Diablo?)

    "It fits with a lot of the stories that were told in the original Diablo and Diablo 2, where we see really precious characters succumb to this kind of corruption and madness and evil, and so this was an opportunity for us to take a character that a player directly interacted with, and hopefully that the player really likes, and see that exact thing happen to her. It was just too evil for us to resist."
    (Must have been fun compiling this story, wish I could have been on that team. :hehe: )

    "To see her father Diablo take her over and turn her into a demon lord is the greatest tragedy we could think."

    "It's tragic what happens to her. But I think the truth of Leah is she's innately heroic. She's a good person. But this evil was rooted at a genetic level. And the turn that her life takes was inevitable to some great degree. When ultimately her turn comes, it feels terrible. We want you to feel like you've been socked in the gut, like you know, "anyone but her." Her spirits still out there somewhere. There's a good girl there that deserves to be saved and brought back from the Abyss. While we don't have any clue yet what subsequent chapters will be, a couple clues (Metzen winks), I'd bet that we would chase that down because it feels right from a story level, and it feels right from a character level."
    (Covetous Shen: Do you think that Leah is lost forever?
    Player: Diablo consumed her. She is gone.
    Covetous Shen: Do you not think Leah's soul is stronger than that? But, oh, but then sometimes I-I forget that you have not seen everything that I have seen.)

    So this is Diablo's plan he has been going after for centuries. The whole 'Adria marked the souls' thing? Well, for one, do we actually trust her at her word? No, not after what she does and the fact we have been 'played like a fiddle' by Diablo the entire time.

    For all we know, Izual could have been the one that rigged up the Black Soulstone. Or Zoltun Kulle, who the other characters pretty much drilled into our skulls was untrustworthy, set it up himself to suck in the big boss Angels and Demons and feigned surprise to try and get us to let him use it on his own. Or the Evils/Diablo themselves at some point, since as far as I know, the events of Diablo 2 were the first time they had ever been 'smashed' and Tyrael was likely the one that thought smashing their stones would send them to the Abyss. (The same soulstones we know were flawed and used as tools by the Evils, thanks to Izual)

    Tyrael's my man, but like he says in the game:
    Angels do not, in fact, know everything.

    I'd have to look for a precise timeline/in-game dialogue, but:

    Tyrael:Three hundred years ago, I selected Kulle and six others to form the Horadrim. He was a great man who was driven mad with his long quest to hunt evil.
    Tell me, why did the Horadrim have to kill Zoltun Kulle?
    He delved into powers not meant for men, trying to fashion an artifact that could fill his empty heart with the souls of angels and demons. The Horadrim had no choice but to slay him. The order... never recovered.

    So potentially, the Black Soulstone may have been around for hundreds of years, around the same amount of time, as stated in the BtS quote above, that Diablo has been planning his big 'middle-finger' to his brothers and sister. Again, would have to look up references, but now is possibly the first time in centuries the Evils were ever vanquished, since the Primes were running amok on Sanctuary and the Lessers were chilling in Hell due to the Eternal Conflict going to a standstill as all eyes focused on Man.

    Although the Great Conflict burned hotter and longer than any of the stars in the sky, neither side could gain dominion over the other for long. Both factions sought some way to turn the tides of the war to their favor. With the ascension of Man and his mortal realm, the Great Conflict ground to a mysterious halt. Both armies paused in a breathless stalemate, waiting to see to whose side Man would eventually turn.

    So, it is possible that the souls were 'marked' centuries ago, and Adria was just making sure all the pieces came together, like getting Deckard Cain out the picture, guiding the Nephalem hero to find ZK's bits, making sure Belial and Azmodan got the kibosh put on them, etc.
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on 1.0.3 - Jay Wilson Effect 3
    For the ME3 posters:


    I thought the ending was alright in kind of an 'ewok celebration' way, but left more questions that answers.

    And to be fair, isn't all that different from D3's in that regard - Angels: "The victory's won! The War is over! The whole wide world is wreathed in clover!" Nephalem: "Uh, haven't you been telling us we needed to smash that soulstone or they'd be reborn? Why the Hell did you just toss him off the side of this tower? That was Leah's body, and her ghost's apparently already angry enough at me! Even if the Big 7 are gone, there's still an entire realm (not to mention Sanctuary) crawling with demons. Don't you think the Evils will just reform like they always have?" Tyrael: "... Time will tell. Ask me again in about a year and a half when the expansion is out."
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Is this a new way of saying "Invulnerable Minions"
    Quote from Aerisot

    I think this was from Early Alpha which then got changed to invul minions.

    I'm going to assume if you are seeing it now in the present, it is probably a bug.

    Looks like Nephalem Valor stacks though, which I think was a 'recent' addition and certainly not from alpha? (Unless it's a PhotoShop and...)

    Pretty funny if real though, gives you something to ponder while lying there dead. "Hmm no Physical, what about Fire? Nope, Lightning, Cold... Oh come on, Poison too? I'm a Witch Doctor for Light's sake! Arcane too, no help from the spirit realm... What about Holy? That should wreck some demons! What, that too? Damn you, Dark Moon Clan Shamans!"
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on people keep saying diablo 3 is going to die, but i dont think so
    D3 may seem like it's 'dying' in part possibly because people were cracking out on it so much in the first weeks/month (OMG! FINALLY! ONLY TOOK 12 YEARS!) and got bored with it. (Pre-release I saw some guy claiming he and his friend took a month off of work to play D3 and were going to 'put at least' 24 hours in on the first day. Kind of curious, if he was serious, how that turned out.)

    A lot of people seemed to have quit/got a refund/stopped playing because it just didn't click for them or they didn't like the direction of the game's design. :S

    I doubt D3 would be as popular for as long as D2 was in it's current state, but with content patches and quite possibly two planned expansions, it might get there. (Just look at how much it has changed in the month+ since launch. Okay, not necessarily always for the better, though :hehe: )The game will probably be hemorrhaging active players until the PvP patch hits, though.

    Quote from mavfin

    People have been predicting the death of WoW for years now, and they still have more players left than all the other MMOs combined. Can't please everyone.

    Considering some 'ancient' games like EverQuest are still going with far less population, I don't think WoW will 'die' anytime soon. (Unless Blizzard themselves pull the plug on it or Titan/some other game is really that good to drop subscribers so low that they take a loss from it. In which case it would probably just go F2P and gain a playerbase again)

    So, let's see how WoW holds up against other MMORPG subscriber counts worldwide. Here are some of the largest MMORPG's by population or "popularity" that have listed their subscription figures:

    Dungeons and Dragons Online - 2 Million
    Knight Online - 4.25 Million
    Flyff - 5 Million
    Guild Wars - 6 Million
    Metin2 - 7 Million
    Gaia Online - 8 Million
    Lineage 1 - 10 Million
    Free Realms - 12 Million
    World of Warcraft - 12 Million
    Wizard 101 - 15 Million
    Silkroad Online - 18 Million
    Lineage 2 - 20 Million
    Second Life - 20 Million
    Dofus - 30 Million
    MU Online - 40 Million
    DarkOrbit - 50 Million
    Perfect World - 50 Million
    Scions of Fate - 50 Million
    Ragnarok Online - 60 Million
    Farmville - 80 Million
    Westward Journey Online II - 86 Million
    Maple Story - 100 Million
    RuneScape - 130 Million
    Dungeon Fighter Online - 200 Million

    All of these numbers are certainly debatable, but these are the official subscribers counts.. apparently.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Cains Death wasn't epic enough.
    Quote from FoxBatD2

    The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.

    Well, at least it wasn't to Ghom. He could have been sat on, eaten alive, killed and fed to other prisoners then they get eaten, suffocated in Ghom's gas clouds, or killed by his stomach acid slimes or whatever those are supposed to be...
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Max Schaefer on the D3 MMO
    There's a little bit more scattered out there about it, but not much as far as I have seen.

    Blizzard North began working on D3 in 2000, lots of the BN crew left in 2003, and the project continued at BN until mid-2005 when BN ceased to be and D3 was moved into Irvine.

    Here's Mr. Schaefer talking a little bit more about the D3 MMO, the first time it was revealed as such I think. (He also mentions that they declined to make more D2 expansions on principle, wanting to modernize the game, despite knowing they would sell like hotcakes. Kudos, Blizzard North.)

    An email from an ex-Blizzard employee allegedly talked about D3 back in 2005.

    The 'Gaming Steve' website claimed to have insider contacts in Blizzard and talked about D3 in early 2006.

    In that podcast interview, Max said at the time he was working there the Heaven area shown in these screenshots of the BN version didn't exist. Possibly gives some credence to the Hartgraves and Gaming Steve leaks, since I believe the SS's didn't leak until 2010?

    If that new Max Schaefer interview is accurate, he seems to be saying D3 was still an MMO up until 2005 when it got moved into Irvine and became what we are playing today.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on My Lilith = Adria Theory
    Quote from Aerisot

    You didn't play the entire game did you.

    Edit* Also he is not an "Aspect" That is WoW, Tyrael WAS the Archangel of Justice, by the end of the game he now stands as Wisdom

    'Aspect' is the new hip thing in Diablo land/the Metzenverse apparently. :hehe:



    Quote from TheDFO

    It wasn't Izual's trick, unless he turned to the Demon's side before he got captured.

    From the Diablo manual:
    The greatest of these heroes was Izual, lieutenant to the Arch-Angel Tyrael and bearer of the Angelic Runeblade Azurewrath. He once led a fierce attack upon the Hellforge as the creation of the dark demonblade Shadowfang was nearing completion. His quest was to destroy both wielder and weapon - a charge that he was destined never to complete. Izual was overcome by the legions of chaos and, tragically, was lost to the Darkness. His fate stands as testament to the fact that Angels and Demons alike shall fearlessly enter into any domain - so long as their hated enemies dwell within.

    From Diablo 2:
    Tyrael: Despite his valor and strength, Izual was captured by the Prime Evils and twisted by their pervese power. They forced him to betray his own kind and give up Heaven's most guarded secrets.
    He became a corrupt shadow of his former self - a fallen angel trusted neither by Heaven nor Hell.

    Izual: Tyrael was a fool to have trusted me! You see, it was I who told Diablo and his Brothers about the Soulstones and how to corrupt them. It was I who helped the Prime Evils mastermind their own exile to your world. The plan we set in motion so long ago cannot be stopped by any mortal agency. Hell, itself, is poised to spill forth into your world like a tidal wave of blood and nightmares.
    You and all your kind... are doomed.

    Tyrael: Thank you, hero, for putting Izual's tortured spirit to rest. May the Light protect you and the powers of Heaven shine upon your path. But, if what you tell me is true, then I fear that we have been played for fools all along. Izual helped Diablo and his Brothers trick me into using the Soulstones against them... Now the Stones' powers are corrupted. With the combined powers of the Soulstones under their control, the Prime Evils will be able to turn the mortal world into a permanent outpost of Hell!

    From Diablo 3:
    Ithereal: The angel Izual was once Tyrael's lieutenant, but he was captured by the enemy after an ill-advised assault upon the Hellforge. Izual surrendered to demonic corruption and revealed the secrets of the soulstones to the Prime Evils. Tyrael claimed that Izual was slain years ago, but his replacement has never emerged from the Crystal Arch...

    Tyrael and Ithereal believe he was captured and tortured/submitted to demonic corruption. It almost seems like Izual did it willingly by what he himself says though. 'Tyrael was a fool to trust me. I told them about the stones and how to corrupt them. I helped plan their Exile. The plan we set in motion so long ago..'
    Or it could be taken as, "Tyrael was a fool to entrust me with his secret plan's info. I ended up telling them all about it and helped plan everything after I was corrupted."

    Personally, I'm kind of leaning towards Izual was 'fallen' before his 'ill-advised assault on the Hellforge' if only because it reminds me of some movie or game plotline, I'll be darned if I can think of the name, but the double agent pretends to have been killed/captured and was of course just getting back to the side of his prefered allies without raising suspicion. :tyrael:

    Especially since for one, he showed up again in D3, on the demon's side of course, and two, his title is 'The Betrayer'

    "It seems we've both fallen from grace, Tyrael. Come, embrace your former lieutenant."
    "You've failed again, Tyrael.The corruption cannot be stopped!"

    Which points to Tyreal was either only half informed, or foolishly arrogant, about the soulstones. If he knew that these stones wouldn't actually allow them to corrupt humans and gain stronger bodies, I doubt he would have used them.
    That said, I agree that we should not assume whatever he says is correct. He thought the Soulstones could protect them, they couldn't. When he found out that the stones could be corrupted, he...waits until the Wanderer almost frees Baal? One would think he would have checked up on those stones, at least once a century or something.

    Don't be so rough on poor old Big T, afterall:
    Tyrael: Of the many things I find intriguing about humans, the greatest is their endless thirst for knowledge.
    Angels believe that everything there is to know is written in the Scroll of Fate. Therefore, curiosity is not a common angelic trait.
    Ironically, my suspicions have been confirmed. Angels do not, in fact, know everything. Seeing the world through mortal eyes has given me much to ponder.

    I think the whole smashing the Soulstones thing was just to stop the Evils from being able to get back into Sanctuary, somehow. That is what the Hell's Forge quest suggests anyway.

    Deckard Cain:The time has come for you to destroy Mephisto's Soulstone!
    Take the Stone to the Hellforge. Place it upon the forge and strike it soundly with the Hammer.
    Only by doing this can you prevent Mephisto from manifesting in this world ever again.

    Then after you beat the Terror's End quest:
    Tyrael: Praise be to the Light! You have accomplished the impossible!
    Diablo and Mephisto have been banished back into the Black Abyss that spawned them and the corrupted Soulstones are no more.
    You've done well, hero. For now, you should rejoice.

    Alternatively, Tyrael might just really like the sounds of them breaking since he is constantly trying to get people to smash the things. =]

    More about Soulstones from the Diablo manual:

    No longer in command of his body or spirit, he raised the stone above his head and uttered words long forgotten in the realm of mortals. His will destroyed, Lazarus shattered the Soulstone upon the ground. Diablo once again came into the world of Man. Although he was released from his imprisonment within the Soulstone, the Lord of Terror was still greatly weakened from his long sleep and required an anchor to the world. Once he had found a mortal form to wear, he could begin to reclaim his vastly depleted power.

    The Nature of the Soulstones
    by Jered Cain of the Horadrim

    It was long ago that the enigmatic Arch-Angel Tyrael bestowed upon us the secrets of the mysterious Soulstones. Tyrael bequested upon our Order three of these Stones so we could contain the vile essences of the Three Prime Evils who had been let loose upon our world. Although the artifacts were constructed in realms far removed from our own, we found that they were simple to understand.

    The Soulstones effect only beings that are non-corporeal and thus have no power over living, breathing creatures. When invoked, the Soulstones bring into being a strong “spiritual” vacuum. Any non-physical entities caught within this vacuum are drawn into the burning recesses of the Soulstone and are forever trapped within. These spirits are released only when the Soulstone is deactivated or destroyed.

    The power of the Soulstones proved to be much more difficult to employ when used against the great Prime Evils. Voraciously disposed to possessing hapless mortals, the Three Brothers found that they were immune to the effects of the Stones while occupying human souls. Sadly, we were forced to hunt down and kill the innocent victims of the Prime Evils so that their demonic essences could be subject to the effects of the Soulstones.

    Mephisto and Diablo, once found, were easily lured into the Soulstones. The capture of their brother Baal, however, became complicated when the Soulstone that was to be his eternal prison was shattered and fragmented. We found that while the shards still held the power to lure the demon to them, they could not properly contain it. Tal Rasha, a fellow Initiate who has been since immortalized in Horadrim lore, theorized that a mortal of strong will might be able to contain Baal within his own mortal soul. This sacrifice meant that the essence of any mortal so chosen would be forever tortured while locked in eternal conflict with the enthralled demon. To this end, Tal Rasha volunteered to contain the raging Lord of Destruction.

    Piercing his breast with a shard of the Soulstone, Tal Rasha took within himself the essence of Baal, the Lord of Destruction. The Initiate’s body was shackled, chained and buried deep within a tomb under the desert. The sacrifice of Tal Rasha has kept Baal imprisoned for many years now, and although the demon was imprisoned without the use a whole Soulstone, we believe that our victory may be a hollow one. Should Tal Rasha ever escape, he would have the formidable powers of Baal added to his own. By ridding the world of this present Evil, we may have created a nightmare worse than that which we first sought to contain...

    The bit about Baal at the end there is pretty interesting, does make you wonder how much of the story they had planned out way back in 1996. =] (Although it sounds like they were fearing an evil Tal Rasha enhanced with Baal powers breaking free to wreak havor and not the other way around)
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Would you buy an updated Diablo expansion/add-on for D3?
    I was listening to some Diablo music and reminiscing about the good ol' days when my brother and I first purchased Diablo and began our descent into Hell, he as the Warrior and myself as the Rogue. Or one summer many years ago when one of my friends and I played through the game start to finish one weekend, I think.

    I started playing it again a few months ago and had some fun for a while, but can see why the modern gamer wouldn't necessarily enjoy some aspects of it. :kitty:

    The core concepts of it are excellent though, just going down this labyrinth, beating the Hell out of demons and undead and using their living Light-damned guts to grease the links of your chainmail. :dh:

    What would you think if Blizzard made an expansion/add-on for Diablo 3 that was an upgraded Diablo using the D3 engine? It could be a stand-alone game and/or integrated into Diablo 3, allowing you to use your D3 characters to play through it if you want to. (Kind of farb, but hey, would add some content and sort-of new locales)

    • It would add three new classes, for use in the Diablo portion and/or D3:
    Warrior - a Strength based, sword and shield focused character.

    Rogue - a Dexterity based archer character. (Obvious problem with this would be Rogues are from an all female organization. The male version could have a 'thief' background like the Scoundrel I suppose.)

    Sorceror - an Intelligence based caster, focused on elemental magics.
    • It would possibly add another 6-10 hour campaign, with Nightmare/Hell/Inferno available. (I honestly have no idea how long it took to beat that game, or how much time could be cut off by being able to move at D3 speed/kill rate)
    • It would have random quests, and quests that actually give pre-set rewards. (These could be like 'legendaries' with some random stats, encouraging multiple playthroughs to get a 'good one', or completely pre-set stats. In any case, they should be account-bound, and possibly have upgraded versions for each difficulty)
    • It would let new-comers to the Diablo series experience the original without being off-put by 'archaic' features of the original
    • A lot of the gameplay features might not translate over, like Staves, any character being able to use magic, stat point distribution, etc.
    • The atmosphere would not be the same in 3D.
    • Would possibly lose the epic feeling of exploring the dark labyrinth. (Remember finding the Butcher for the first time?)
    • It likely would not have all the charm of the original.
    • There would be massive raging if it wasn't 100% true to the original, especially if it used the new skill system, automatic stat points, lack of potions/scrolls/staves, etc.
    • None, or very few if any, of the original guys that made the game are still at Blizzard, leaving it in an entirely new set of hands
    Probably some more pros and cons but that's about all I could think of.

    My brother and I would probably get it, more-so if it was connected with Diablo 3 since it would add some 'new'ish content and bring back a cheerful memory from the past. (Without trying to find one of my current friends willing to endure some of the antiquated systems of Diablo like no running :miniD: )

    Alternatively, it could be included as a small 'DLC' type addition. Diablo: Aidan's Tale.

    Adds two new classes, the Warrior, a Strength based, sword and shield focused character, and the Dark Wanderer, a Strength based, demonic and unholy power user. The Dark Wanderer is only unlocked after completing the game on Normal.

    When you first start out, you have to start as the Warrior/Aidan. Finishing the game on Normal as Aidan will unlock access for all other characters on your account. (If it's tied in to D3 anyway, and not a completly seperate product)

    Instead of being a direct copy of Diablo, this game would focus on the life of Prince Aidan as he fought in Westmarch and returned home to find the life he knew is gone.

    First Act would be fighting alongside Lachdanan and co. in the Khanduras-Westmarch war.
    Second Act would be returning to Tristram and descending down the catacombs until you fight Lazarus.
    Third Act would be the descent into Hell and the final battle against Diablo.
    Fourth Act would be following Aidan as he became the Dark Wanderer, and would include a boss battle against Tyrael.

    Followers would be the Rogue and Sorceror, with Marius in Act IV.

    Edit: Fixed up poll, never set up a multi-questioner before. :bigD:
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [Spoilers/Poll]Possible Plot expansions
    Quote from Ranim

    I wish the whole game turned out to be a carefully orchestrated illusion where you really did go to those places, but what you saw was different, and you were the one who killed Cane, and you were the one who Injured Imperius, and you fought at the wall and defeated Azmodan, as an unknowing agent of Belial. That would make the mess we're left with brilliant.

    Everything you see is what they want you to see. Everything you do is what they want you to do. Everything you think you know, is a lie. Nephalem, you are indoctrinated.

    That would explain why the big evils and their goons have suddenly developed holo-com technology to broadcast their plans at the Nephalem hero. ("Oh, uh I totally saw this dude using an amulet, so I stole it, yeah, that's what I did.")

    Hmm, the Wizard thinks some book had them as this hero of Prophecy. The Demon Hunter had their family killed and a group of hate-filled killers recruited them. The Witch Doctor was sent on his quest by the spirits? I don't remember the Barb/Monk pre-story, I think the Barb was looking for the ultimate challenge or something.

    Expansion starts with a cinematic of Deckard Cain and the surviving Diablo 2 heroes ripping you out of a demonic torture chamber. "By the Light, what have those fiends done to you? At last, I was able to decode some of the ancient Horadrim prophecies, which led us to you, but I fear I may have been too late. Dead? No, my friend, I can assure you I am quite alive! However, if we do not act swiftly, I am afraid we shall all be headed for the Unformed Lands! "
    You stagger forward, eyes set on an open doorway with sunlight pouring in in the distance. The sounds of battle echo off the caverns walls. You fall to your knee, a tired-looking Amazon and sullen Druid support you as you shuffle towards the exit. The camera pans out over a devastated wasteland down below, a horrendous battle is waging. The rivers run dark with the blood of the fallen, the bodies of angels, demons, and men, litter the ground as far as your eyes can see. In the skies, the angels and winged demons clash in a beautiful display of aerobatics and death. The poor souls that are wounded and sent earthward in this deadly aerial battle are torn apart by the frenzied forces on the ground.

    You stagger back from the doorway, a bright light shines behind you and you feel an armored hand grip your shoulder. The Archangel Tyrael, Aspect of Justice, looks at you with the black void that is his face, "Nephalem, I do not know what lies the demons have been feeding you, but we haven't much time. The final battle is upon us, whoever triumphs on this day shall be the victor of the Eternal Conflict. Come, Nephalem, the hour of your true destiny is at hand."
    Posted in: Lore & Storyline
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    posted a message on Refuses to make offline version; justifies "pay-to-win" model to fund server costs.
    Quote from Catalept

    Quote from Pyrrhic

    Work with major consumer brands to facilitate product placement and licensing within the world of Blizzard Entertainment's next-gen MMO that enhances the gameplay experience.

    There are very few scenarios where this makes any sense at all.

    ... oh God... please don't tell me they're making a near-future MMO MilSim. /vomit

    Activision is making something like that, called Call of Duty China/Asia, and Bungie is also making an unknown MMO, so that should rule out Blizzard making something like that.

    The old Daeity from the DigiCas blog apparently had a bunch of concept art, screenshots, details, etc. on Titan in early 2011. His blog was subsequently shut down and all Titan (and financials) related content he had gathered was purged from the web.

    From some of his older posts, and a handful of Blizzard leaks that were found, you can sort of guess at what the game may be about.


    (I think the big leak he had may have come from this, as I'm not seeing any search results for "Activision Commercial Summit" besides that page and the whois. Whatever it was, if anything, appears to have been swept under the rug)

    you have some diablo-like drawings by the d3 team / you have fantasy elves and wow stuff from the wow art team / and then you have stuff like this from the next gen team.


    I don't know if he was talking about the 'horseman' from 2010, but if you look at some of the art blogs from the 'Bits and Pieces' post you can sort of see what he was talking about. Lots of sci-fi looking landscapes, futuristic fighter jets. Those two I found interesting as the one from 2010 looks like a WW I cavalryman, then another by a different artist many months later has essentially the same character, except fantasy-ized with a giant lizard/dragon thing. Don't know if it's Titan, or just something they like to draw/from some other IP.

    No BlizzCon this year, but still a chance they could reveal some info on it
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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