My name is Zaramos (Barbarian Classleader of <Zero Empathy>) and i want to show you some details on how big the current Paragonsystem influences Leaderboards after reaching Paragon 800 is. I will not only throw numbers on you but also a practical example and how easy it is to scale it up accordingly to the Paragonlvl. Keep in mind that this is not intended to be a whine threat but wants to solve the problem.
Practical Example:
I knew that i wouldnt have enough time to compete on either Season/Era this time so i played the game for fun the past 3 month. With "FUN" i mean doing Solo Grifts for pushing and training and theoriecrafting, and for me it is a lot of fun and the endgame of D3.
I started with Paragon 1114 this Era and ended up being Paragon 1180 without doing a sgl XP run. In total i did around 500-600 pushing Solo Grifts.
I was able to finish T71 in a okayish Rift (Enchantress Map,Thralls/Grotesque,Mothers,Punishers, 12% progress Conduit, 6min30 fight against EMBER).
So I knew on a dream rift with better Conduit + Boss i am able to do T72, and i got a Top 3 Dream Rift (best one i got within all my keys):Unburried/Goats,Big Arreat Crater lvl1,25% Conduit,but Orlash. This was the result:
After that rift i stopped playing for rankings cause i knew it is possible for me within another 1000 keys or lvling my gems to lvl 90 to ease it a bit. At that point some people on NS started reaching Paragon 2600 even in our Clan so i did the math, which is kinda simple:
I have exacly 12000 Main Stat at Paragon 1180. A Paragon 2620 guy has 19200 Main Stat if he has the exact same gear.
19200/12000=1.6 => 60% flat dmg increase, also 7200 Armor more which decreases the DMG taken by around 23%.
Mob Healt increases by 1.17 per Tier and Dmg done by 1.07 => 1.17^3 = 1.60 (Mobs have 60% more HP); 1.07^3 = 1.225 (Deal 22.5% more DMG).
Its easy to see that a Paragon 2600+ guy can do 3 Tiers higher with the same gear on the same map with the same mobs
For a Paragon 800 Char it is 4 Tiers difference. 19200/10000 = 1.92 => 92% Dmg increase. 1.17^4 = 1.87.
This is just to show the numbers and i dont want to blame people who put a hell lot of time in this game to get those high Paragons if they did it without botting. I would like you to also take a look on how much more someone has to play to get to 2.6k and if the advantage is fair:
Paragon 800: 3.196.623.480.000 (3.2T XP needed)
Paragon 1180: 20.830.856.760.000 (20.8T XP needed)
Paragon 2600: 250.511.368.710.000 (250.5T XP needed)
A Paragon 2600 guy has played 80 times more than a p800 char and 12.5 times more than i did.
In my opinion it is somehow fair that people that spend way more time into the game should be rewarded maybe even like it is right now, but it drains the fun from 99.9999% of the other D3 players, may it be competitive players or casual players.
I knew i wouldnt be able to get Rank 1 this Era so i played in my own "League" and compered my achievments with Paragon 1100-1400 chars.
You can do it as well but it does not get reflected on the leaderboard so my "Paragon League" idea was born:
The Paragon Leagues: (TL;DR)
Keep in mind that this is just an example and i really want your opinion and maybe tweaks to this idea.
A new League:
What about a 4th anchor on the leaderboard which sorts the board depending on the Paragonlvl the Ranking was done?
For example: 0-300,301-600, 601-900 etc. within those 300 Paragons the difference in DMG/EHP is not more than 1 Tier (with the same Gear)
As i was thinking about this a bit more there were more things that this "Leagues" will do for the game and for the players.
Bringing back the FUN!
Currently everyone is grinding gear and paragon for month till the 2 weeks warning and then they start with the "Fun". (95% grinding 5% fun). The "League-System" would enhance the funfactor by a lot for most players as they can compete even mid season/era on their respective boards. The most competitive players will skip all of that early grifitng till they are 2k+ but they dont influence you anymore if you dont have the time or passion.
New Builds for low Paragonlvl!
Below Paragon 800 there might be different builds as you dont have all Stats from the Paragonsystem and you might not have the perfect Set yet . Your gear is not yet full ancients, you dont have the mats or the right items to cube etc.
Bots?
If you think deeper into this you might see that it somehow fixes the influence of botts at least for not top end players as it makes not much sense to bot within a 300 paragons reach as you will have limited time to compete in that league anyways so better play wisely and efficient
Groupplay?
For groupplay the average lvl of the group can be used.
What happens to my Rankings if i reach higher Paragon?
They will stay as long as you are within top 1000 at the end of Season/Era. So there will be players trying to compete on all leagues!
Futher additions from the Playerbase:
A suggestion over from reddit by akagamisteve: The League can also be determined by the Paragon Points you have spend doing the run.
Good thing about it: You can participate in every League you want by spending less points.
Downside for the more casual playerbase: Gear will matter a lot more so does botting/playtime
So now i want to hear your opinion! Feel free to comment, criticism appreciated!
you're not the first one with the idea of paragon brackets, nevertheless you wrote it out very well.
Also i like this idea very much and from a technical side it is not hard to implement.
The only fukin argument blizzard will come with against this - if they even bother commenting on any of these - it increases ui clutter und confuses new players bla bla..
Well i don't like it very much, it would be kinda bad to be pushing for let's say 600-900 leaderboard and when you are getting there you lvl to 901,It would be simpler if you could filter out everyone that has a specific paragon, say remove all paragon 1500+ from showing up on the leaderboard for you, no need to create a new ladder when the data shown is already present in the current ones, we just need options to filter it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
I've had the same feelings for awhile when it came to the paragon grind, it's just not fun. Knowing that even if I played every three hours a day, there's just no possible way to remain even slightly competitive after just a couple weeks into the season. I agree someone who puts in more time should feel rewarded, but I personally feel that reward should be all the chances at better gear, not straight damage and mitigation.
I'm not sure if capping the main stay gain after 800 would be the best route, but right now it's just not fun. I played for about 3 weeks into this new season and got a bunch of great gear. I had to take about a week off for work. When I logged back on and saw the hundreds of levels ahead leaderboards were at, I didn't start playing again, because there's zero chance to be competitive. Should I be handed first place because I don't play as much? Of course not. But knowing that if I DON'T log 10 hours or more a day I wouldn't be able to place no matter what I did means somethings wrong.
In my opinion the problem is with the overall gaming philosophy in Diablo 3 but since this will or cannot be solved in the next millenia, your paragon league description is the way to go. Oh and hey will never add skill trees unfortunately...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Truth is like a lion. Don't try to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself" Augustine of Hippo
Not a fan of brackets. I think having a competitive rift mode ( in which you go for leaderboard rankings) where paragon is capped after 800 is the best solution. People with high paragon would still enjoy their benefits out side of the leaderboard competitions but if they wish to compete, it equalizes the field.
Well i don't like it very much, it would be kinda bad to be pushing for let's say 600-900 leaderboard and when you are getting there you lvl to 901,It would be simpler if you could filter out everyone that has a specific paragon, say remove all paragon 1500+ from showing up on the leaderboard for you, no need to create a new ladder when the data shown is already present in the current ones, we just need options to filter it.
I rather like the OPs ideas but I agree that a simple filter would solve many problems regarding leaderboards. You can truely see where you stand in your "brackets".
But....oh well, paragon needs to be revised again anyway. The suggestions for +1-2 mainstat for each plvl beyond 800 is also decent but I would prefer a complete rework which deals with the current plvl problems regarding leaderboards and powercreep.
You don't really customize your character with paragon which is the actual purpose for it. The stats shouldn't capping out and somehow not break the game. I think a system which revolves about diminishing returns would be kinda the best solution.
1 plvl point for increasing mainstat +5 (value can be as high as blizzard wishes, just to keep it simple we stay at +5 mainstat for each increase)
2 additional plvl points for increasing mainstat to +10
3 additional plvl points for increasing mainstat to +15, and so on and so forth... just to give an example.
also blizzard should give people more options to spend points in. 4 for each category is simple not enough and my suggestion would not help much with only 4 for each category.
First off im happy with the way paragons are now and dont really want to see any major changes to the way 800+ works.
So as an alternative id suggest something closer to a daily run that works something like this
- At fixed points in the season a static grift becomes available - in a 3 month season perhaps the last week of each month
- All paragons are equalized to be 800 in the rift preferably with the main stat page reflects your current paragon (point in speed and resource remain the same and the remainder put into main stat and vit at the same ratio up to 200 points)
-Rifts would be static like the new set dungeons, density and mob type to be ideal for all classes - possibility of changing every few ranks to keep it interesting.
- A set number of attempts per day or cycle would be allowed per solo class ie 5 as a wd, 5 as monk, etc etc. and a separate amount of attempts in mp ie 10 2man, 10 3man and 10 4man
This would still give a slight advantage to player who log more hours with better rolled items but would eliminate the huge main stat paragon advantage. With the static rift the ranking become more about skill and less about spending hundred of hours fishing.
I was talking about the same thing for a while and this would be the game changer for me
I don't have the time to hit 2k paragon every season over and over again due to my real life things and having a wife and a job also needs another farming and grinding outside of my game-life so that would be great to see where I'm standing in the paragon range to me.
would be good to have brackets in 200 range so for example I2m now 876 paragon and would only need to beat the ppl up to 1000 paragon which is possible with a bit of luck and "skillz"
It's kinda boring to compete against 2000 paragon ppl with level 90 gems tho
Splitting paragons into tiers for leaderboard ranking is a great idea. We could still have the overall rank, which includes all paragon levels, but I would be curious to see where I fell within the certain ranks and if I could even hit the top 1000 as I usually only play to p600-p800 in a season before taking a break until the next patch. This would definitely help create some extra interest in the end game without putting in the 100s of hours the elite players do.
As the OP mentioned, only using 800 paragon points (rather than however many they have) would allow players to compete in any tier lower than
that they've reached. I wouldn't be concerned with gear quality, but rather legendary gem level. Perhaps the gems' level could be capped at a certain level based on the tier. For example p0-p800, leg gems could be capped at 60 or 70 (or whatever makes most sense).
For those who don't want to participate in tiers, they don't have to. They'd still be competing normally for personal solo goals and towards the overall leaderboard. Nothing would change for them. I suppose to indicate this, you'd need to select your tier from the grift menu, with the default being the overall tier (no caps, no restrictions).
I was trying to think of other potential issues, and mainly only group grifts come to mind. Averaging the paragon levels is interesting, as mentioned by the OP, but I assume we'd see people with paragon level 1 in the grift with super high paragon level toons to lower the average. While it's a smart strategy, it's boring. I think holding the group players to the same restrictions as the solo players makes the most sense.
Regardless, I think this idea is excellent and applaud the OP's well thought out post.
I think the cap of paragon should be 800 and every 100 paragon after you should be able to get a paragon token. These paragon tokens can then be traded in at an NPC (kadala like) where you can pick a ancient weapon/armorpiece/jewelry of your choosing with stats of your choosing. This way everybody has the same resources at their disposal kinda like with an MMO hitting the levelcap, but you are rewarded by getting perfect rolled gear. This helps in pushing GRifts but anyone still has the chance of getting a great piece by it dropping. But hey Caldesann will only make the gap bigger so I do not have my hopes up.
I think the cap of paragon should be 800 and every 100 paragon after you should be able to get a paragon token. These paragon tokens can then be traded in at an NPC (kadala like) where you can pick a ancient weapon/armorpiece/jewelry of your choosing with stats of your choosing. This way everybody has the same resources at their disposal kinda like with an MMO hitting the levelcap, but you are rewarded by getting perfect rolled gear. This helps in pushing GRifts but anyone still has the chance of getting a great piece by it dropping. But hey Caldesann will only make the gap bigger so I do not have my hopes up.
This is a terrible idea. Perfectly rolled gear should never be given. Farming is the best part of dungeon crawlers. Finding that hard to get, perfectly rolled item is what makes the grind worth it. Am I wrong?
What is with everyone wanting handouts?
I think the cap of paragon should be 800 and every 100 paragon after you should be able to get a paragon token. These paragon tokens can then be traded in at an NPC (kadala like) where you can pick a ancient weapon/armorpiece/jewelry of your choosing with stats of your choosing. This way everybody has the same resources at their disposal kinda like with an MMO hitting the levelcap, but you are rewarded by getting perfect rolled gear. This helps in pushing GRifts but anyone still has the chance of getting a great piece by it dropping. But hey Caldesann will only make the gap bigger so I do not have my hopes up.
I'm sorry, but I don't like that idea of the tokens. For one, it really encourages botting for paragon to advance your character up the latter. It's already bad, but people who bot to 2K+ paragon would have perfectly rolled gear for when they try to advance.
I also think that this goes against the nature of this game. The end game is the loot grind and GRifting advancement. You would be nerfing the GRifting meta and destroying the grinding experience.
However, I would like to see a cap on paragon. People can still earn experience and let it translate into NS paragon advancement, but 800 should be the cap with the current paragon perks. Hell, I think 600 could be good, because then it requires players to make a choice on how they are allocating those points instead of blindly maxing out all the available options.
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Hey guys,
My name is Zaramos (Barbarian Classleader of <Zero Empathy>) and i want to show you some details on how big the current Paragonsystem influences Leaderboards after reaching Paragon 800 is. I will not only throw numbers on you but also a practical example and how easy it is to scale it up accordingly to the Paragonlvl. Keep in mind that this is not intended to be a whine threat but wants to solve the problem.
Practical Example:
I knew that i wouldnt have enough time to compete on either Season/Era this time so i played the game for fun the past 3 month. With "FUN" i mean doing Solo Grifts for pushing and training and theoriecrafting, and for me it is a lot of fun and the endgame of D3.
I started with Paragon 1114 this Era and ended up being Paragon 1180 without doing a sgl XP run. In total i did around 500-600 pushing Solo Grifts.
I was able to finish T71 in a okayish Rift (Enchantress Map,Thralls/Grotesque,Mothers,Punishers, 12% progress Conduit, 6min30 fight against EMBER).
So I knew on a dream rift with better Conduit + Boss i am able to do T72, and i got a Top 3 Dream Rift (best one i got within all my keys):Unburried/Goats,Big Arreat Crater lvl1,25% Conduit,but Orlash. This was the result:
http://imgur.com/a/fihG4
My Profile and Gear I used:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/de/profile/zaramos-2604/hero/59558231 (GEMS:lvl76 BoT/Taeguk and lvl 70 PE)
After that rift i stopped playing for rankings cause i knew it is possible for me within another 1000 keys or lvling my gems to lvl 90 to ease it a bit. At that point some people on NS started reaching Paragon 2600 even in our Clan so i did the math, which is kinda simple:
I have exacly 12000 Main Stat at Paragon 1180. A Paragon 2620 guy has 19200 Main Stat if he has the exact same gear.
19200/12000=1.6 => 60% flat dmg increase, also 7200 Armor more which decreases the DMG taken by around 23%.
Mob Healt increases by 1.17 per Tier and Dmg done by 1.07 => 1.17^3 = 1.60 (Mobs have 60% more HP); 1.07^3 = 1.225 (Deal 22.5% more DMG).
Its easy to see that a Paragon 2600+ guy can do 3 Tiers higher with the same gear on the same map with the same mobs
For a Paragon 800 Char it is 4 Tiers difference. 19200/10000 = 1.92 => 92% Dmg increase. 1.17^4 = 1.87.
This is just to show the numbers and i dont want to blame people who put a hell lot of time in this game to get those high Paragons if they did it without botting. I would like you to also take a look on how much more someone has to play to get to 2.6k and if the advantage is fair:
Paragon 800: 3.196.623.480.000 (3.2T XP needed)
Paragon 1180: 20.830.856.760.000 (20.8T XP needed)
Paragon 2600: 250.511.368.710.000 (250.5T XP needed)
A Paragon 2600 guy has played 80 times more than a p800 char and 12.5 times more than i did.
In my opinion it is somehow fair that people that spend way more time into the game should be rewarded maybe even like it is right now, but it drains the fun from 99.9999% of the other D3 players, may it be competitive players or casual players.
I knew i wouldnt be able to get Rank 1 this Era so i played in my own "League" and compered my achievments with Paragon 1100-1400 chars.
You can do it as well but it does not get reflected on the leaderboard so my "Paragon League" idea was born:
The Paragon Leagues: (TL;DR)
Keep in mind that this is just an example and i really want your opinion and maybe tweaks to this idea.
A new League:
What about a 4th anchor on the leaderboard which sorts the board depending on the Paragonlvl the Ranking was done?
For example: 0-300,301-600, 601-900 etc. within those 300 Paragons the difference in DMG/EHP is not more than 1 Tier (with the same Gear)
As i was thinking about this a bit more there were more things that this "Leagues" will do for the game and for the players.
Bringing back the FUN!
Currently everyone is grinding gear and paragon for month till the 2 weeks warning and then they start with the "Fun". (95% grinding 5% fun). The "League-System" would enhance the funfactor by a lot for most players as they can compete even mid season/era on their respective boards. The most competitive players will skip all of that early grifitng till they are 2k+ but they dont influence you anymore if you dont have the time or passion.
New Builds for low Paragonlvl!
Below Paragon 800 there might be different builds as you dont have all Stats from the Paragonsystem and you might not have the perfect Set yet . Your gear is not yet full ancients, you dont have the mats or the right items to cube etc.
Bots?
If you think deeper into this you might see that it somehow fixes the influence of botts at least for not top end players as it makes not much sense to bot within a 300 paragons reach as you will have limited time to compete in that league anyways so better play wisely and efficient
Groupplay?
For groupplay the average lvl of the group can be used.
What happens to my Rankings if i reach higher Paragon?
They will stay as long as you are within top 1000 at the end of Season/Era. So there will be players trying to compete on all leagues!
Futher additions from the Playerbase:
A suggestion over from reddit by akagamisteve:
The League can also be determined by the Paragon Points you have spend doing the run.
Good thing about it: You can participate in every League you want by spending less points.
Downside for the more casual playerbase: Gear will matter a lot more so does botting/playtime
So now i want to hear your opinion! Feel free to comment, criticism appreciated!
Zaramos
you're not the first one with the idea of paragon brackets, nevertheless you wrote it out very well.
Also i like this idea very much and from a technical side it is not hard to implement.
The only fukin argument blizzard will come with against this - if they even bother commenting on any of these - it increases ui clutter und confuses new players bla bla..
Love it.
Now, who tells blizz about this idea?
Well i don't like it very much, it would be kinda bad to be pushing for let's say 600-900 leaderboard and when you are getting there you lvl to 901,It would be simpler if you could filter out everyone that has a specific paragon, say remove all paragon 1500+ from showing up on the leaderboard for you, no need to create a new ladder when the data shown is already present in the current ones, we just need options to filter it.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
I've had the same feelings for awhile when it came to the paragon grind, it's just not fun. Knowing that even if I played every three hours a day, there's just no possible way to remain even slightly competitive after just a couple weeks into the season. I agree someone who puts in more time should feel rewarded, but I personally feel that reward should be all the chances at better gear, not straight damage and mitigation.
I'm not sure if capping the main stay gain after 800 would be the best route, but right now it's just not fun. I played for about 3 weeks into this new season and got a bunch of great gear. I had to take about a week off for work. When I logged back on and saw the hundreds of levels ahead leaderboards were at, I didn't start playing again, because there's zero chance to be competitive. Should I be handed first place because I don't play as much? Of course not. But knowing that if I DON'T log 10 hours or more a day I wouldn't be able to place no matter what I did means somethings wrong.
I see no other solution than this. I dig it.
In my opinion the problem is with the overall gaming philosophy in Diablo 3 but since this will or cannot be solved in the next millenia, your paragon league description is the way to go. Oh and hey will never add skill trees unfortunately...
"Truth is like a lion. Don't try to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself" Augustine of Hippo
I am not able to post this on the official D3 forums as i am banned there somehow -.-
Added a suggestion over from reddit (might be debatable but that´s what this threat is about)
If you want to read and join the discussion over at reddit (over 60 comments) use this link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/3tt8us/the_state_of_paragon_in_d3_and_an_example_how_to/
Not a fan of brackets. I think having a competitive rift mode ( in which you go for leaderboard rankings) where paragon is capped after 800 is the best solution. People with high paragon would still enjoy their benefits out side of the leaderboard competitions but if they wish to compete, it equalizes the field.
I am also fine with a 1:1 ratio, but we will see
But....oh well, paragon needs to be revised again anyway. The suggestions for +1-2 mainstat for each plvl beyond 800 is also decent but I would prefer a complete rework which deals with the current plvl problems regarding leaderboards and powercreep.
You don't really customize your character with paragon which is the actual purpose for it. The stats shouldn't capping out and somehow not break the game. I think a system which revolves about diminishing returns would be kinda the best solution.
1 plvl point for increasing mainstat +5 (value can be as high as blizzard wishes, just to keep it simple we stay at +5 mainstat for each increase)
2 additional plvl points for increasing mainstat to +10
3 additional plvl points for increasing mainstat to +15, and so on and so forth... just to give an example.
also blizzard should give people more options to spend points in. 4 for each category is simple not enough and my suggestion would not help much with only 4 for each category.
First off im happy with the way paragons are now and dont really want to see any major changes to the way 800+ works.
So as an alternative id suggest something closer to a daily run that works something like this
- At fixed points in the season a static grift becomes available - in a 3 month season perhaps the last week of each month
- All paragons are equalized to be 800 in the rift preferably with the main stat page reflects your current paragon (point in speed and resource remain the same and the remainder put into main stat and vit at the same ratio up to 200 points)
-Rifts would be static like the new set dungeons, density and mob type to be ideal for all classes - possibility of changing every few ranks to keep it interesting.
- A set number of attempts per day or cycle would be allowed per solo class ie 5 as a wd, 5 as monk, etc etc. and a separate amount of attempts in mp ie 10 2man, 10 3man and 10 4man
This would still give a slight advantage to player who log more hours with better rolled items but would eliminate the huge main stat paragon advantage. With the static rift the ranking become more about skill and less about spending hundred of hours fishing.
this also just supports extreme luck
Blizzard already spoke on paragon problem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ06ATvGQM8
+10000000kkkkkk
I was talking about the same thing for a while and this would be the game changer for me
I don't have the time to hit 2k paragon every season over and over again due to my real life things and having a wife and a job also needs another farming and grinding outside of my game-life so that would be great to see where I'm standing in the paragon range to me.
would be good to have brackets in 200 range so for example I2m now 876 paragon and would only need to beat the ppl up to 1000 paragon which is possible with a bit of luck and "skillz"
It's kinda boring to compete against 2000 paragon ppl with level 90 gems tho
Splitting paragons into tiers for leaderboard ranking is a great idea. We could still have the overall rank, which includes all paragon levels, but I would be curious to see where I fell within the certain ranks and if I could even hit the top 1000 as I usually only play to p600-p800 in a season before taking a break until the next patch. This would definitely help create some extra interest in the end game without putting in the 100s of hours the elite players do.
As the OP mentioned, only using 800 paragon points (rather than however many they have) would allow players to compete in any tier lower than
that they've reached. I wouldn't be concerned with gear quality, but rather legendary gem level. Perhaps the gems' level could be capped at a certain level based on the tier. For example p0-p800, leg gems could be capped at 60 or 70 (or whatever makes most sense).
For those who don't want to participate in tiers, they don't have to. They'd still be competing normally for personal solo goals and towards the overall leaderboard. Nothing would change for them. I suppose to indicate this, you'd need to select your tier from the grift menu, with the default being the overall tier (no caps, no restrictions).
I was trying to think of other potential issues, and mainly only group grifts come to mind. Averaging the paragon levels is interesting, as mentioned by the OP, but I assume we'd see people with paragon level 1 in the grift with super high paragon level toons to lower the average. While it's a smart strategy, it's boring. I think holding the group players to the same restrictions as the solo players makes the most sense.
Regardless, I think this idea is excellent and applaud the OP's well thought out post.
I think the cap of paragon should be 800 and every 100 paragon after you should be able to get a paragon token. These paragon tokens can then be traded in at an NPC (kadala like) where you can pick a ancient weapon/armorpiece/jewelry of your choosing with stats of your choosing. This way everybody has the same resources at their disposal kinda like with an MMO hitting the levelcap, but you are rewarded by getting perfect rolled gear. This helps in pushing GRifts but anyone still has the chance of getting a great piece by it dropping. But hey Caldesann will only make the gap bigger so I do not have my hopes up.
What is with everyone wanting handouts?
I also think that this goes against the nature of this game. The end game is the loot grind and GRifting advancement. You would be nerfing the GRifting meta and destroying the grinding experience.
However, I would like to see a cap on paragon. People can still earn experience and let it translate into NS paragon advancement, but 800 should be the cap with the current paragon perks. Hell, I think 600 could be good, because then it requires players to make a choice on how they are allocating those points instead of blindly maxing out all the available options.