This "none-set" seems very OP and very fun but couldn't a diminishing return work? 800% from the first ancient, 700% for the second, 600% for the forth etc.
I were happy when I read about the reworked Akkhan:
- Can't be obtained as easily as 6p set, prolly will need to be farmed for days, will make ppl to play bounties again
- Can't maintain 100% akhan uptime
- Can't fuel some abillities (due to lack of resource)
6p sets are easy to obtain, don't leave you a lot of room for creativity (new akhan and IK are the only ones that promote many builds), and simplify your rotation/build.
As other ppl said, most 6p sets iteration are what made d3 so boring, every1 using same set will use same skills, proc items like schafaer are obsolete also, as the massive % dmg increase from most sets only apply to skills, not items (Again, Akhan and IK are excptions).
Though F&R would be wrecked by another ancient, or have I misunderstood how the damage is calculated? With Zodiac and CDR I think it is possible to make something which doesn't lack resources.
people will ALWAYS use the same builds because there will always be guides for builds which outperform other builds. Don't fool yourself to think that the game will have such a high diversity with the next patch. Some skills will just be buffed way more than other skills and then everybody will just run around with those.
The difference is just simply that you can now use every skill and build around it so that you can play on T10 with it. But in GRifts, there will be huge differences.
Take GRifts out of the game and 2.4 is basically Diablo2. Highest difficulty is so low that you can play whatever you like when you have the powerful items.
And don't you dare forget rumours! If someone famous say X is good or best, when it's in fact equal to a lot of other things. A lot of people will go with what the famous one say, simply because that is more proof then trying things your self.
Take paragons, people ask for ridiculously high paras to do simple stuff just because it is believed that those paragons are needed for a faster run etc. If I can oneshot things in t10 with 100 paragon then I wouldn't oneshot more, or faster just because I have 1000 paragon but people think it is needed. Just as WoW are infected with item level. Pugs might ask for almost higher item level than the look you get from killing a boss gives. It will not matter what you have or how skilled you are if that is your teams mindset.
I mean, I've ran a dashing build which did completely okay damage in gr55-60 with my friends and we cleared things in about half of the time. I would mostly not be welcome into pick-up groups with that build though. Sup Barb, Heal monk, SWK and HotA or gtfo, even if it's not needed.
There's a lot of factor to keep in mind but you get the idea
@rumors: don't you forget that people can use math. It's not so hard to calculate the dmg output of a skill, if you know how the multipliers of that equip works. Sure, there might be weird stuff people will find out, like SC monk (which should have never worked like that in the first place).
@high paragon: it's to show experience. I'd rather have someone with high paragon than someone with low paragon, even if the low paragon players equip is a bit better. Why? Because I know that the high paragon player knows how to play efficiently. He knows when to fight and when to move on. Most random players don't know this and this is basically the only thing that differentiates a 5 minute grift farmgroup from a 8 minute grift farmgroup.
@dashing strike: people wanted that one combo because it enabled more than 55-60. 55-60 is babyplay in group right now. I did 60 solo and I did 70 in a group. And we didn't even try to push it. Dashing Strike is a good build, but it has little group synergy. Same with wizard. They can push solo pretty high, but their group synergy is low.
My post were a bit sarcastic and I also said "There's a lot of factors to keep in mind". Of course higher para should mean more experience. That combo sure is better, ain't saying it isn't. I'm saying that it ain't the "only viable" group for 55-60. Also, when I did this it were in the beginning of the season, when were at around para 500-600.
I only meant that if something is true for endgame, many people believe it to be the only truth about midgame as well even though it isn't the case. It might be better, it might be easier to play etc but it isn't necessary. I'm not talking about the top. Obviously you've to use the best thing up there, I'm talking about the level most people are playing.
it's still completely viable. It just forces people to figure out effecient ways of using it vs just blindly smashing builds together and clearing 70 rifts. What a lot of people forget is that there are a lot of very powerful uniques (stuff like triumverate with % increased damage), and builds that use them that rely solely on uniques, that up until now have been bad because of that. With these, they can still be really good by stacking those % increase damage powers without being insanely over the top.
I think that the rings should not exist, some classes are better with them than others its just not fair. First step would be balancing the damage output of the skills on every class, after that they can add those rings on the ptr server and than balance the rings with our sets.
Rings are fun, only item that makes me wanna play again. Its impossible to balanca all the classes, the only way to do it is to make all skills the same, and that will be absolutely boring.
Hoping to be tuned so 6set will be equal to 7-8ancients, if u got 9+ ancients LoN will be better, as its harder to get proper ancient items compared to 6set
LoN SHOULD be more powerful than 6sets when u got 13 ancient "correct" legendaries with decent stats
100% per item, 1300% overall. Still best set for crudaser .
(450% on Akkhan, for example, lol.)
Hope they buff Akkhan a bit up as well, so maybe both Akkhan and Invoker are competitive, instead of making every crusader run LoN, which is somewhat hard to gear for, because the LoN Set alone is worthless - you need the Ancient Items to power it.
Lon or akkhan, that's irrelevant, they are basically the same thing, damage + defence.. Instead they should make more skills competent, foh, bombardment, avatars, falling sword... Personally I think akkhan should be totally reworked into something different than lon, but still not focused on certain skills. Something in line with permanently empowered laws, cooldown decreased on crits, increased damage based on block chance and amount, etc. Oh, and ac runes are still not fixed, prophet should be merged with base skill and there should be new rune, hastefull is too weak to even bother, rally is a joke and fire starter is pathetic. I get that some skills can be bad but there is damn 6pc set based on that skill. It shouldn't be like that.
100% per item, 1300% overall. Still best set for crudaser .
(450% on Akkhan, for example, lol.)
But 450% form akhan is multiplicative. It mean if you have skill with 500% weapon dmg it is 500% * 4,5 = 2250%.
LoN is 1300% additive -> 500% weapon dmg skill + 1300% is 1800%.
Additive damage is still a multiplier of its own, so it is 500% * 13 = 6500%. It just goes together in one multiplier with all other sources of additive damage, from items and skills and some legendary gems (f. e. taeguk, powerful) , which can considerably lower the value of some of those in comparison to those that are multiplicative (f. e. whirlwind damage % on boots and helmet; trapped and zeis; some passives; etc)
LoN was insanely high, set on purpose to see the reaction of people - which has been very positive. Dmage had to be nerfed to avoid making them hands down the best choice.
They have (like sets should) to be a choice, an option. Current multiplier is on the low side, if needed they can just buff it up again - of every set it's the easiest one to balance out.
I don't think it's totally irrelevant to say this, but let's not forget that the reason for such high solo is the decreased health in grifts when running alone. they aren't just balancing around the rings, they're balancing around the new health as well. We should have the comparison between LoN and other full sets with supporting orange legs.
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This "none-set" seems very OP and very fun but couldn't a diminishing return work? 800% from the first ancient, 700% for the second, 600% for the forth etc.
I were happy when I read about the reworked Akkhan:
meaning I could build a crusader with whatever setup I wanted. One ancient is better than that set though.
And don't you dare forget rumours! If someone famous say X is good or best, when it's in fact equal to a lot of other things. A lot of people will go with what the famous one say, simply because that is more proof then trying things your self.
Take paragons, people ask for ridiculously high paras to do simple stuff just because it is believed that those paragons are needed for a faster run etc. If I can oneshot things in t10 with 100 paragon then I wouldn't oneshot more, or faster just because I have 1000 paragon but people think it is needed. Just as WoW are infected with item level. Pugs might ask for almost higher item level than the look you get from killing a boss gives. It will not matter what you have or how skilled you are if that is your teams mindset.
I mean, I've ran a dashing build which did completely okay damage in gr55-60 with my friends and we cleared things in about half of the time. I would mostly not be welcome into pick-up groups with that build though. Sup Barb, Heal monk, SWK and HotA or gtfo, even if it's not needed.
There's a lot of factor to keep in mind but you get the idea
I only meant that if something is true for endgame, many people believe it to be the only truth about midgame as well even though it isn't the case. It might be better, it might be easier to play etc but it isn't necessary. I'm not talking about the top. Obviously you've to use the best thing up there, I'm talking about the level most people are playing.
Just got nerfed to 100%. Now it is complete useless. At 1300% increase still cannot compete with set + F/C.
Hellthooth for example is: 900% * 2.25 = 2025% increase damage.
it's still completely viable. It just forces people to figure out effecient ways of using it vs just blindly smashing builds together and clearing 70 rifts. What a lot of people forget is that there are a lot of very powerful uniques (stuff like triumverate with % increased damage), and builds that use them that rely solely on uniques, that up until now have been bad because of that. With these, they can still be really good by stacking those % increase damage powers without being insanely over the top.
huh, that was weird. Couldn't edit my post till I made another
TL:DR version is, because they like doing stupid shit on the PTR.
We are doomed now So sad. And there are still useless 6pc sets.. How did that slip their attention?
100% per item, 1300% overall. Still best set for crudaser .
(450% on Akkhan, for example, lol.)
Hoping to be tuned so 6set will be equal to 7-8ancients, if u got 9+ ancients LoN will be better, as its harder to get proper ancient items compared to 6set
LoN SHOULD be more powerful than 6sets when u got 13 ancient "correct" legendaries with decent stats
Hope they buff Akkhan a bit up as well, so maybe both Akkhan and Invoker are competitive, instead of making every crusader run LoN, which is somewhat hard to gear for, because the LoN Set alone is worthless - you need the Ancient Items to power it.
Lon or akkhan, that's irrelevant, they are basically the same thing, damage + defence.. Instead they should make more skills competent, foh, bombardment, avatars, falling sword... Personally I think akkhan should be totally reworked into something different than lon, but still not focused on certain skills. Something in line with permanently empowered laws, cooldown decreased on crits, increased damage based on block chance and amount, etc. Oh, and ac runes are still not fixed, prophet should be merged with base skill and there should be new rune, hastefull is too weak to even bother, rally is a joke and fire starter is pathetic. I get that some skills can be bad but there is damn 6pc set based on that skill. It shouldn't be like that.
Btw, if blizz say, that with the nerf the maximum grift closed will be 13 lower than now, so its going to be ~90?
Difference is that LoN dmg is additive and you can't use focus + restraint or compass rose + travelers pledge.
Nop, even with 800% if they just fix the damn immortality and the CC
bug no one will solo that high, but as always blizz doesn't fix the bugs
but they nerf the rings to oblivion...
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
I don't get all the "sky is falling posts".
LoN was insanely high, set on purpose to see the reaction of people - which has been very positive. Dmage had to be nerfed to avoid making them hands down the best choice.
They have (like sets should) to be a choice, an option. Current multiplier is on the low side, if needed they can just buff it up again - of every set it's the easiest one to balance out.
I expect more passes over LoN during PTR.
Sad that I didn't get to play with it. The intersection of the servers uptime and my free time was way too low ;(
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I don't think it's totally irrelevant to say this, but let's not forget that the reason for such high solo is the decreased health in grifts when running alone. they aren't just balancing around the rings, they're balancing around the new health as well. We should have the comparison between LoN and other full sets with supporting orange legs.