I'm guessing that numbers will change before release, but looking at it as it is I'm geting the feeling that they are not worth it. So i decided to play around with calc a bit and this is my idea so far...
I'm thinking about swapping Overpower for Leap(300% armor)/Stomp(pull and stun)/Threatening Shout(15% additional treasure), but it largely depends on how ill the game play out and how mandatory would the Overpower healing turn out to be,
It all depends on your itemization. If you are focusing on crits, fury can still be very useful with the extra attack speed allowing more hits to crit.
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Not shure really, whats the crit value at the moment? 150% or 200%? The way i see it now, generator's provide more output then spender's in both single target and AoE. Ok, mabe not AoE but difference is marginal and covered up by the Berserker Rage passive buff, with some help from Revenge and Overpower.
Playstyle should look like this: Keep Battle rage up all the time, refreshing in sync with War Cry like this Battle Rage>War Cry so you stay at max fury. Use Charge to move into the midst of enemy's trying to cover as much of them as you can (hopefully at least 5) and keep repeating it as long as you can have it reliable refreshed with just a stray Revenge when it procs. Use your Overpower when your health drops to ~50-60% range (Revenge should help prevent this from happening, so in essence this would be "O shit button"). And finally use Frenzy as a filler or against single target/elite/boss enemy's.
Seems like a build that involves a shield. The reason Barbarians have so many knockback / stun / movement abilities is that they're not supposed to be constantly taking damage unless they're spec'd for it. If you're planning on getting hit a lot, I guess you could go with something more like this: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#XVgijk!cVg!acbaZc
Maybe throw Inspiring Presence in there somewhere.
Most of the "Spenders" that I'll be using are being selected more for a utility purpose or style preference than shear throughput. For instance, I like Weapon Throw - both for it's damage capability and for adding some sort of decent ranged mechanic for the barb.
I think the Barb, because of its abilities and it being hand to hand, takes the most skill to play.
I know it's a bit off topic I just thought I'd mention:
I feel like the barb falls into the realm of "one of the easiest to be good at, one of the hardest to be great at..."
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I have had this same thought before and it's usually due to Cleave and Frenzy just being so damn good.
While I still plan on assign a fury spender because it's a wasted resource otherwise, there are a few skills and passives related to this "issue"...Berserker Rage, obviously. A more subtle, and I think more interesting one is //us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/weapon-throw">Weapon Throw's Dread Bomb. It's a ranged execute that expends all remaining fury in one single, massive blow.
*Shocked at the amount of constructive posts and utter absence of trolls*
Any how, some really good points lying around! My bet is that spenders will get some uber perks from ability enhancing item mods, because the way it looks now spenders just lack the output on paper. I'l grant it that spenders have much more "flashyness" but what I'm crunching around here is raw output optimising for inferno.
Speaking of utility the only apple I'm giving an eye is Rend for amazing aoe and self heal support. Other then that as some one else stated revenge and overpower just outclass ever spender by a mile, what it comes down to for me is that I'm not shure of the situation where id rather use any of the spenders as they are now over:
-Frenzy for single target
-Charge for geting into group of enemy's to enable revange/AoE and last but not least closing gap with ranged enemy's. Also im pretty shure that knock-back from it is going to cause some form of attack disruption, so there you have some cc on the top.
-Revenge when ever possible, with back up Overpower for healing. They are just too good.
I just don't see space for any other active skill (point where I'd rather use it over the above) so filled the last two spots with passive bonuses (shouts) for some healthy mix of offense/defense.
It might not be flashy or most fun build ever, but in my opinion its going to be the "working horse" of the group or solo play.
Really interesting point with weapon trow there, If berserker rage apply's at the moment of casting with this build total AoE damage would build up to staggering 823.875% in 12 yards, SICK! (provided that damage bonuses stack multiplicatively or 721.5% if they stack additively)
get your idea, im not big into fury spenders either... but i like WW so i will prob use that.
you know... it kinda feels that barb is kinda getting the same treatment as he did in Diablo 2, he was VERY limited to what skills he actually could use well. and the barb now seems... lacking? he needs to get at least 2 more spender damage skills imo :/
I like the thoughts that are being laid out here. I mostly agree with it too, except for a good point that Steamrice pointed out - where you need more burstiness rather than throughput. Hope in for a couple Hammers and hop out.
Now, considering the life leach on the generators (Overpower and Revenge), and that fury spenders really only do marginally more damage even on burst, it still may not be worth it. That Smash runed HOTA only does +50% more damage than Revenge seems pretty weak.
@Steamrice: +25% damage is going to require a LOT more than 25 str at level 60...
Seems like a build that involves a shield. The reason Barbarians have so many knockback / stun / movement abilities is that they're not supposed to be constantly taking damage unless they're spec'd for it. If you're planning on getting hit a lot, I guess you could go with something more like this: http://us.battle.net...gijk!cVg!acbaZc
Maybe throw Inspiring Presence in there somewhere.
I'm thinking something more along the lines of this http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#XQVgik!cZg!accbac since the newest patch, as you're going to need life leech, and Tough as nails got the nerfbat (I'm sure it's still good, but maybe not great)
@Steamrice: +25% damage is going to require a LOT more than 25 str at level 60...
im just going by what i get in beta which is 1 str = +1% to all damage. And I havn't seen anywhere that says it will drop to like 1 str turns into .5% dmg at 60
@Steamrice: +25% damage is going to require a LOT more than 25 str at level 60...
im just going by what i get in beta which is 1 str = +1% to all damage. And I havn't seen anywhere that says it will drop to like 1 str turns into .5% dmg at 60
In diablo 2 strength damage was added additively... That 25% could be a final calculation... Aka multiplicative of the total
Seems like a build that involves a shield. The reason Barbarians have so many knockback / stun / movement abilities is that they're not supposed to be constantly taking damage unless they're spec'd for it. If you're planning on getting hit a lot, I guess you could go with something more like this: http://us.battle.net...gijk!cVg!acbaZc
Maybe throw Inspiring Presence in there somewhere.
I'm thinking something more along the lines of this http://us.battle.net...Vgik!cZg!accbac since the newest patch, as you're going to need life leech, and Tough as nails got the nerfbat (I'm sure it's still good, but maybe not great)
I like Bash with Punish more than Frenzy because I can get up the Punish buff with only 3 Bashs as opposed to 5 Frenzys.
I also wanted to go a bit more defensive with TaN and Superstition, at least initially, to make sure I survive well in Inferno. If I'm surviving ok and not doing enough damage, I'll likely switch out Superstition for Brawler.
It looks like a fun build to me, being tanky and hopefully proccing Revenge enough to get good damage.
@Steamrice: +25% damage is going to require a LOT more than 25 str at level 60...
Yes. And no. These are two separate factors that get multiplied with your damage. Strength on it's own will stack additively and provide one of these factors. Skills also stack additively but as a separate multiplier, which will probably be much lower than the strength one. So while both 25 str and 25% damage add 0.25 to their respective multipliers, the latter one will have the greater impact because the corresponding multiplier is smaller.
http://us.battle.net...QVik!cVg!cZccac
I'm thinking about swapping Overpower for Leap(300% armor)/Stomp(pull and stun)/Threatening Shout(15% additional treasure), but it largely depends on how ill the game play out and how mandatory would the Overpower healing turn out to be,
/discuss
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Playstyle should look like this: Keep Battle rage up all the time, refreshing in sync with War Cry like this Battle Rage>War Cry so you stay at max fury. Use Charge to move into the midst of enemy's trying to cover as much of them as you can (hopefully at least 5) and keep repeating it as long as you can have it reliable refreshed with just a stray Revenge when it procs. Use your Overpower when your health drops to ~50-60% range (Revenge should help prevent this from happening, so in essence this would be "O shit button"). And finally use Frenzy as a filler or against single target/elite/boss enemy's.
Maybe throw Inspiring Presence in there somewhere.
Most of the "Spenders" that I'll be using are being selected more for a utility purpose or style preference than shear throughput. For instance, I like Weapon Throw - both for it's damage capability and for adding some sort of decent ranged mechanic for the barb.
Off Topic:
I know it's a bit off topic I just thought I'd mention:
I feel like the barb falls into the realm of "one of the easiest to be good at, one of the hardest to be great at..."
16GB G Skill Ram ~ 2x Mushkin 120GB SSD's ~ MSI GTX 570 Twin Frozer ~ Asus P8P67 Deluxe
While I still plan on assign a fury spender because it's a wasted resource otherwise, there are a few skills and passives related to this "issue"...Berserker Rage, obviously. A more subtle, and I think more interesting one is //us.battle.net/d3/en/class/barbarian/active/weapon-throw">Weapon Throw's Dread Bomb. It's a ranged execute that expends all remaining fury in one single, massive blow.
Any how, some really good points lying around! My bet is that spenders will get some uber perks from ability enhancing item mods, because the way it looks now spenders just lack the output on paper. I'l grant it that spenders have much more "flashyness" but what I'm crunching around here is raw output optimising for inferno.
Speaking of utility the only apple I'm giving an eye is Rend for amazing aoe and self heal support. Other then that as some one else stated revenge and overpower just outclass ever spender by a mile, what it comes down to for me is that I'm not shure of the situation where id rather use any of the spenders as they are now over:
-Frenzy for single target
-Charge for geting into group of enemy's to enable revange/AoE and last but not least closing gap with ranged enemy's. Also im pretty shure that knock-back from it is going to cause some form of attack disruption, so there you have some cc on the top.
-Revenge when ever possible, with back up Overpower for healing. They are just too good.
I just don't see space for any other active skill (point where I'd rather use it over the above) so filled the last two spots with passive bonuses (shouts) for some healthy mix of offense/defense.
It might not be flashy or most fun build ever, but in my opinion its going to be the "working horse" of the group or solo play.
Really interesting point with weapon trow there, If berserker rage apply's at the moment of casting with this build total AoE damage would build up to staggering 823.875% in 12 yards, SICK! (provided that damage bonuses stack multiplicatively or 721.5% if they stack additively)
you know... it kinda feels that barb is kinda getting the same treatment as he did in Diablo 2, he was VERY limited to what skills he actually could use well. and the barb now seems... lacking? he needs to get at least 2 more spender damage skills imo :/
And berserker's rage looks nice on paper, +25% dmg at max fury... That is only 25 str bonus and from what we've seen STR is a plenty later on to get.
Now, considering the life leach on the generators (Overpower and Revenge), and that fury spenders really only do marginally more damage even on burst, it still may not be worth it. That Smash runed HOTA only does +50% more damage than Revenge seems pretty weak.
@Steamrice: +25% damage is going to require a LOT more than 25 str at level 60...
I'm thinking something more along the lines of this http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#XQVgik!cZg!accbac since the newest patch, as you're going to need life leech, and Tough as nails got the nerfbat (I'm sure it's still good, but maybe not great)
im just going by what i get in beta which is 1 str = +1% to all damage. And I havn't seen anywhere that says it will drop to like 1 str turns into .5% dmg at 60
In diablo 2 strength damage was added additively... That 25% could be a final calculation... Aka multiplicative of the total
Or maybe : http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WQXgik!cZg!ZcYbac
For more single target / boss killing ability through Frenzy
Your build is almost identical to mine.
http://us.battle.net...XQki!cVe!bcccca
I'm planning to use a 1-hander and shield.
I like Bash with Punish more than Frenzy because I can get up the Punish buff with only 3 Bashs as opposed to 5 Frenzys.
I also wanted to go a bit more defensive with TaN and Superstition, at least initially, to make sure I survive well in Inferno. If I'm surviving ok and not doing enough damage, I'll likely switch out Superstition for Brawler.
It looks like a fun build to me, being tanky and hopefully proccing Revenge enough to get good damage.
Yes. And no. These are two separate factors that get multiplied with your damage. Strength on it's own will stack additively and provide one of these factors. Skills also stack additively but as a separate multiplier, which will probably be much lower than the strength one. So while both 25 str and 25% damage add 0.25 to their respective multipliers, the latter one will have the greater impact because the corresponding multiplier is smaller.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450