Honestly... I know there aren't many that will be a fan of this, but I wish they'd make "expansion characters" like they did in LoD. You have to check the box to play with other expansion characters. Complete wipe. Maybe give some sort of boost if you have a lvl 60 non-expansion character of the same class and still keep the Plvl for the account, but a complete wipe would be great for the economy of the expansion imo.
It seems to me this is almost a requirement - not a "nice to have" but a straight up "can't be any other way" situation.
There is likely to be certain items/gems/crafting materials that will only be droppable in the expansion - and players with and without the expansion will not be compatible with one another (for example: I can't trade a diamond to someone without the xpac)
So the question of value of certain items may be entirely moot - you might be able to designate an existing character as a "xpac only" character but those items will be removed entire from the non-xpac economy.
I doubt you will allowed to have a blended (some vanilla, some expansion) character roster as it makes the stash situation a complicated mess.
I find it very plausible that the only thing transferred to the expansion will be your paragon xp and nothing else.
From a programming perspective it would just be a "IsExpansion" flag. It's handled at the account level, right? So you either have it or you don't. They still have not announced what all will be available to vanilla customers compared to expansion customers either, with respect to Act V and the new class. They have been doing this same thing in WoW for years so I am confident they have that aspect under control. (Famous last words).
From a programming perspective it would just be a "IsExpansion" flag. It's handled at the account level, right? So you either have it or you don't. They still have not announced what all will be available to vanilla customers compared to expansion customers either, with respect to Act V and the new class. They have been doing this same thing in WoW for years so I am confident they have that aspect under control. (Famous last words).
Actually they did. The exp currently includes:
Lvl 70 Characters
Act V
Crusader
Apparently more info is to come by Blizzcon but for now this is what the expansion gets you. So obviously non exp's can't hit act V or play with a crusader (this may not be true) and you can't obtain any of the new items or maybe you can and they'll just roll shittier stats cause your max lvl is 60 vs 70... I'd assume Diamond will be included with the Loot 2.0 patch along with the Neph Trials Loot runs and the paragon system.
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From a programming perspective it would just be a "IsExpansion" flag. It's handled at the account level, right? So you either have it or you don't. They still have not announced what all will be available to vanilla customers compared to expansion customers either, with respect to Act V and the new class. They have been doing this same thing in WoW for years so I am confident they have that aspect under control. (Famous last words).
Actually they did. The exp currently includes:
Lvl 70 Characters
Act V
Crusader
Apparently more info is to come by Blizzcon but for now this is what the expansion gets you. So obviously non exp's can't hit act V or play with a crusader (this may not be true) and you can't obtain any of the new items or maybe you can and they'll just roll shittier stats cause your max lvl is 60 vs 70... I'd assume Diamond will be included with the Loot 2.0 patch along with the Neph Trials Loot runs and the paragon system.
I think the "playing with a Crusader" thing is what had me (mostly) convinced that the two games would be entirely segregated - just to play with one they'd have to patch in all the artwork, skills, effects from group buff types skills etc. I have a hard time seeing them going to all that effort when the other option is SO much less effort and complication.
Honestly... I know there aren't many that will be a fan of this, but I wish they'd make "expansion characters" like they did in LoD. You have to check the box to play with other expansion characters. Complete wipe. Maybe give some sort of boost if you have a lvl 60 non-expansion character of the same class and still keep the Plvl for the account, but a complete wipe would be great for the economy of the expansion imo.
It seems to me this is almost a requirement - not a "nice to have" but a straight up "can't be any other way" situation.
There is likely to be certain items/gems/crafting materials that will only be droppable in the expansion - and players with and without the expansion will not be compatible with one another (for example: I can't trade a diamond to someone without the xpac)
So the question of value of certain items may be entirely moot - you might be able to designate an existing character as a "xpac only" character but those items will be removed entire from the non-xpac economy.
I doubt you will allowed to have a blended (some vanilla, some expansion) character roster as it makes the stash situation a complicated mess.
I find it very plausible that the only thing transferred to the expansion will be your paragon xp and nothing else.
If you buy the xpac, all your chars SHOULD be converted.
The items, a non-issue. All items and para changes are being done via patch.
Honestly... I know there aren't many that will be a fan of this, but I wish they'd make "expansion characters" like they did in LoD. You have to check the box to play with other expansion characters. Complete wipe. Maybe give some sort of boost if you have a lvl 60 non-expansion character of the same class and still keep the Plvl for the account, but a complete wipe would be great for the economy of the expansion imo.
It seems to me this is almost a requirement - not a "nice to have" but a straight up "can't be any other way" situation.
There is likely to be certain items/gems/crafting materials that will only be droppable in the expansion - and players with and without the expansion will not be compatible with one another (for example: I can't trade a diamond to someone without the xpac)
So the question of value of certain items may be entirely moot - you might be able to designate an existing character as a "xpac only" character but those items will be removed entire from the non-xpac economy.
I doubt you will allowed to have a blended (some vanilla, some expansion) character roster as it makes the stash situation a complicated mess.
I find it very plausible that the only thing transferred to the expansion will be your paragon xp and nothing else.
If you buy the xpac, all your chars SHOULD be converted.
The items, a non-issue. All items and para changes are being done via patch.
They've never changed the stats on already rolled items. They're redoing the Legendary items (again) with Loot 2.0
If they transfer all your characters with their loot in to the xpac you could conceivably have 3 versions of each Legendary floating around.
I only throw that out there as some of the things that make me think there have been serious arguments in design meetings in favor of a clean and segregated start of expansion characters. Perhaps your account keeps its gold, gems and crafting mats but that would be it if they wanted to clean up the eq database.
They've never changed the stats on already rolled items. They're redoing the Legendary items (again) with Loot 2.0
Not correct - see APS change last summer... but yeah, except for that one time, they don't want to touch already rolled items (see the black weapon "mistake" that was discovered too late by them).
They've never changed the stats on already rolled items. They're redoing the Legendary items (again) with Loot 2.0
Not correct - see APS change last summer... but yeah, except for that one time, they don't want to touch already rolled items (see the black weapon "mistake" that was discovered too late by them).
Memory is hazy (getting old) but if I recall they changed a single code multiplier parameter that automatically changed the displayed (and game effect) of APS. My impression is that the changes to Legendary items is such that the only adjustment they could (theoretically) make would be to reroll every Legendary on conversion - and what a train-wreck that would be
/quietly starts hording 500 copies of each Legendary just in case.
If they transfer all your characters with their loot in to the xpac you could conceivably have 3 versions of each Legendary floating around.
And if that becomes an issue you know exactly what they'll do. Those legacy legendaries will become BoA.
They're not going to start deleting shit left and right, making people start at level 60 but with no gear, etc. just because of something like that. I believe the saying is "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." There's no reason to go to the extreme of deleting things willy-nilly. That is precisely what they want to avoid: using a machete when a scalpel would be more appropriate.
They already said that paragon levels will be transferred somehow, why would they then wipe characters. That's just nonsense. I agree that I don't see the point of this thread.
They already said that paragon levels will be transferred somehow, why would they then wipe characters. That's just nonsense. I agree that I don't see the point of this thread.
They said paragon level would be transferred - and I realize this is not D2 LoD but there is precedent for making people start over.
I totally don't get the point in this thread.
Why would they ever need to either wipe all the characters / items or do all those strange requirements with the expansions.
It's so simple. Everyone who doesn't buy the expansion won't have access to the crusader and can't level beyond 60.
All the level 60 gear will be quite worthless after the inital leveling wave and if somebody uses level 70 items with reduced level req - who the fuck cares?
So there is simply no need to do anything else. Don't know what you are freaking out about.
You do realize that the new eq would have stats, skills and other expansion type artwork that is not included in D2 vanilla - it's not as simple as use/don't use. It's entirely possible that without considerable coding effort D3 vanilla programs would have no idea what to do with a D3X formatted item.
The point was to solicit opinion/information from other people on the topic of a character reset associated with the xpac for which there is precedent and a certain logical consistency with solving several logistical problems - you know, the type of things people DO on a discussion board.
And I'm not freaking out because I recognized right away that since the vanilla gear would be worthless by 70 I could care less if they make me reroll another character as the only REAL thing of value is the time tied up in paragon levels and they've already indicated that WILL be retained.
They already said that paragon levels will be transferred somehow, why would they then wipe characters. That's just nonsense. I agree that I don't see the point of this thread.
They said paragon level would be transferred - and I realize this is not D2 LoD but there is precedent for making people start over.
There would be a back lash from people who have used the RMAH. They will not make you start over. What is this precedent for making people start over?
They already said that paragon levels will be transferred somehow, why would they then wipe characters. That's just nonsense. I agree that I don't see the point of this thread.
They said paragon level would be transferred - and I realize this is not D2 LoD but there is precedent for making people start over.
There would be a back lash from people who have used the RMAH. They will not make you start over. What is this precedent for making people start over?
I agree it would piss certain people off something fierce - the point I have been trying to make is that there is a very non-trivial amount of work involved in trying to maintain peoples characters/stash/equipment and gold AND (this is the important part) STILL allowing any kind of interaction between expansion and non-expansion characters.
You'll probably be asked if you want to convert your character to expansion, and once you do you can't go back. Expansion characters only play with expansion characters. Just like Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm.
You'll probably be asked if you want to convert your character to expansion, and once you do you can't go back. Expansion characters only play with expansion characters. Just like Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm.
If you're allowed to keep your characters I agree: Which automatically requires a separate GAH/RMAH to be created (would be needed anyway IMHO).
Now, if one of the biggest problems with the current economy is the number of people running around with x-billions in gold while the game mechanically (crafting/combining) functions with thousands and maybe millions - why would you WILLINGLY import that problem in to the new economy?
You guys are splitting way too many heads trying to figure this one out when instead you should be looking at how its done WoW
Typical Blizzard fashion for their games is to seperate the entire thing into two categories: a pre-patch, which has all the free content. This will be reworked gear and new items usable up to level 60, UI changes, skill changes up to level 60, and changed game mechanics (paragon leveling for example) amongst other things and new features.
Things you will only have access to in the expansion are new story content (Act 5), the new class, raised level cap (which is why a complete wipe isn't necessary anyway) and the Mystic, which may indicate that the Mystic is only usable at endgame.
Also, since its been mentioned, I think I've heard Blizzard mention that the current legendaries may be altered instead of simply not dropping anymore to slowly change over to Lootv2. How exactly this will be tackled is almost inconsequential in the end though, because lets be honest, the majority of people here right now will get buy the expansion and not have a care in the world about their level 60 gear about an hour or two after release.
Actually you meet the mystic in A1. She's the dumb ass stuck in the web during that boss battle with the spider. Hate her. She takes forever to talk and walk around.
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So who actually played LoD when it first came out? They'd likely remember that while, yes, expansion vs non was segregated, you could easily CONVERT your existing toons to expansion. it wasn't till 1.10 ladders that people got this restart nonsense in their head.
If level cap requires purchase though, I'm wondering how the game difficulty is supposed to scale now. Is inferno lvl 70 for everyone? how does mlvl scale between normal a nightmare depending on if you have an act 5 to go to? Will the public game lists be segregated if nothing else? Does the game host determine how mlvl scales? Frankly I'm having a hard time seeing how things won't be segregated unless the 70 cap is free in the patch for all, but that still leaves the scaling problem based on act 5 being present or not.
If level cap requires purchase though, I'm wondering how the game difficulty is supposed to scale now. Is inferno lvl 70 for everyone? how does mlvl scale between normal a nightmare depending on if you have an act 5 to go to? Will the public game lists be segregated if nothing else? Does the game host determine how mlvl scales? Frankly I'm having a hard time seeing how things won't be segregated unless the 70 cap is free in the patch for all, but that still leaves the scaling problem based on act 5 being present or not.
I'm pretty sure public games will be segregated into D3X and D3C (classic). You don't actually notice, you just don't see people from the "other realm". It wouldn't make sense to mix it; what if you come across an entrance to a loot run - and your friend playing D3C can't see it? That doesn't make sense. It'll most definitely all be separated into two different communities. Which doesn't matter too much, those people who don't buy the x-pac actively decided to stay within their own community, just like D2C players were living in a different "universe" compared to LoD players.
It seems to me this is almost a requirement - not a "nice to have" but a straight up "can't be any other way" situation.
There is likely to be certain items/gems/crafting materials that will only be droppable in the expansion - and players with and without the expansion will not be compatible with one another (for example: I can't trade a diamond to someone without the xpac)
So the question of value of certain items may be entirely moot - you might be able to designate an existing character as a "xpac only" character but those items will be removed entire from the non-xpac economy.
I doubt you will allowed to have a blended (some vanilla, some expansion) character roster as it makes the stash situation a complicated mess.
I find it very plausible that the only thing transferred to the expansion will be your paragon xp and nothing else.
Actually they did. The exp currently includes:
Lvl 70 Characters
Act V
Crusader
Apparently more info is to come by Blizzcon but for now this is what the expansion gets you. So obviously non exp's can't hit act V or play with a crusader (this may not be true) and you can't obtain any of the new items or maybe you can and they'll just roll shittier stats cause your max lvl is 60 vs 70... I'd assume Diamond will be included with the Loot 2.0 patch along with the Neph Trials Loot runs and the paragon system.
I think the "playing with a Crusader" thing is what had me (mostly) convinced that the two games would be entirely segregated - just to play with one they'd have to patch in all the artwork, skills, effects from group buff types skills etc. I have a hard time seeing them going to all that effort when the other option is SO much less effort and complication.
If you buy the xpac, all your chars SHOULD be converted.
The items, a non-issue. All items and para changes are being done via patch.
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They've never changed the stats on already rolled items. They're redoing the Legendary items (again) with Loot 2.0
If they transfer all your characters with their loot in to the xpac you could conceivably have 3 versions of each Legendary floating around.
I only throw that out there as some of the things that make me think there have been serious arguments in design meetings in favor of a clean and segregated start of expansion characters. Perhaps your account keeps its gold, gems and crafting mats but that would be it if they wanted to clean up the eq database.
Not correct - see APS change last summer... but yeah, except for that one time, they don't want to touch already rolled items (see the black weapon "mistake" that was discovered too late by them).
Memory is hazy (getting old) but if I recall they changed a single code multiplier parameter that automatically changed the displayed (and game effect) of APS. My impression is that the changes to Legendary items is such that the only adjustment they could (theoretically) make would be to reroll every Legendary on conversion - and what a train-wreck that would be
/quietly starts hording 500 copies of each Legendary just in case.
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And if that becomes an issue you know exactly what they'll do. Those legacy legendaries will become BoA.
They're not going to start deleting shit left and right, making people start at level 60 but with no gear, etc. just because of something like that. I believe the saying is "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." There's no reason to go to the extreme of deleting things willy-nilly. That is precisely what they want to avoid: using a machete when a scalpel would be more appropriate.
So you find a better version of an existing Legendary? Great, just trash/sell the old one.
It wont take long for the 1st round of Legendary's to start disappearing.
They said paragon level would be transferred - and I realize this is not D2 LoD but there is precedent for making people start over.
You do realize that the new eq would have stats, skills and other expansion type artwork that is not included in D2 vanilla - it's not as simple as use/don't use. It's entirely possible that without considerable coding effort D3 vanilla programs would have no idea what to do with a D3X formatted item.
The point was to solicit opinion/information from other people on the topic of a character reset associated with the xpac for which there is precedent and a certain logical consistency with solving several logistical problems - you know, the type of things people DO on a discussion board.
And I'm not freaking out because I recognized right away that since the vanilla gear would be worthless by 70 I could care less if they make me reroll another character as the only REAL thing of value is the time tied up in paragon levels and they've already indicated that WILL be retained.
There would be a back lash from people who have used the RMAH. They will not make you start over. What is this precedent for making people start over?
I agree it would piss certain people off something fierce - the point I have been trying to make is that there is a very non-trivial amount of work involved in trying to maintain peoples characters/stash/equipment and gold AND (this is the important part) STILL allowing any kind of interaction between expansion and non-expansion characters.
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If you're allowed to keep your characters I agree: Which automatically requires a separate GAH/RMAH to be created (would be needed anyway IMHO).
Now, if one of the biggest problems with the current economy is the number of people running around with x-billions in gold while the game mechanically (crafting/combining) functions with thousands and maybe millions - why would you WILLINGLY import that problem in to the new economy?
Actually you meet the mystic in A1. She's the dumb ass stuck in the web during that boss battle with the spider. Hate her. She takes forever to talk and walk around.
If level cap requires purchase though, I'm wondering how the game difficulty is supposed to scale now. Is inferno lvl 70 for everyone? how does mlvl scale between normal a nightmare depending on if you have an act 5 to go to? Will the public game lists be segregated if nothing else? Does the game host determine how mlvl scales? Frankly I'm having a hard time seeing how things won't be segregated unless the 70 cap is free in the patch for all, but that still leaves the scaling problem based on act 5 being present or not.
I'm pretty sure public games will be segregated into D3X and D3C (classic). You don't actually notice, you just don't see people from the "other realm". It wouldn't make sense to mix it; what if you come across an entrance to a loot run - and your friend playing D3C can't see it? That doesn't make sense. It'll most definitely all be separated into two different communities. Which doesn't matter too much, those people who don't buy the x-pac actively decided to stay within their own community, just like D2C players were living in a different "universe" compared to LoD players.