I think gamers in general (not just Blizzard's fans) are overly paranoid of anything that can be perceived as "dumbing down" game systems, and lose sight of what's actually being removed. Some games (*cough* Dragon Age 2) suffer from over simplification, but in this case it doesn't really seem like anything fun is being lost. The same enormous combination of power variants exist, they just chose to clean up the UI and make the accumulation of runes predictable instead of random/auction housey. Obviously none of us can say for sure, but I suspect the hunt for runes at end-game wouldn't have been terribly fun anyway.
Loving the feedback on the skill and rune system, been waiting for this for awhile glad Blizzard finally gave us the info.
I'm a bit concerned about the "Skill Rune" system now though. From what I understand from Jay Wilsons post about the new Skill Rune system how you progressively unlock new Skill Runs for different Skills on certain levels, it seems very linear to me. It seems like when the Runes were itemized it was a bit more random as to which Runestone you would actually alter you skill with.
For example, if you just hit level 49 and were now able to put Rank 3 Runestones into your skills, you may aim to get a Rank 3 Crimson Runestone for your Ray of Frost skill. But if you first find a Rank 3 Indigo Runestone, you might say "Aaww that isn't what I was hoping to find, but it makes it better then the skill is currently, so I might chuck it in for now and use it for awhile." with this system, I could see myself chopping and changing my skills as I found/brought Runestones, which seems much diverse as to the new Skill Rune system in where we progressively unlock new Skill Runes and we'll all probably just end up using the highest unlockable one we've unlocked, as I presume it will be the most powerful and beneficial.
However if the Skill Runes are all even, with not anyone being the most powerful or beneficial Skill Rune and the advantages and disadvantages of each one are roughly equal to one-another... There wouldn't be much point wanting to aim for the higher level Skill Runes, would there?.
For example, if you unlock a new Skill Rune at level 15 for a skill you like and use that Skill Rune on that skill, and later at level 30 you unlock another one and see that you get a minor advantage in one thing for a minor disadvantage in another, why bother changing it at all? Why shouldn't you just keep using it the way you have been?
To summerize, it seems like the Skill Rune system have less customisation then the Runestone system, as the Skill Rune system seems very linear and very progressive based, which kind of cuts down our choices for our character builds.
P.S Im not in the Diablo 3 Beta so at the moment I'm just speculating off what I read on the blog post. I hope I get the opportunity to play the Beta and give feedback from my actual game play experience with the new system
Seems odd that the build you want to play with may not be usable untill you get done with Hell (if that particular rune effect doesn't unlock till level 60)
Loving the feedback on the skill and rune system, been waiting for this for awhile glad Blizzard finally gave us the info.
I'm a bit concerned about the "Skill Rune" system now though. From what I understand from Jay Wilsons post about the new Skill Rune system how you progressively unlock new Skill Runs for different Skills on certain levels, it seems very linear to me. It seems like when the Runes were itemized it was a bit more random as to which Runestone you would actually alter you skill with.
For example, if you just hit level 49 and were now able to put Rank 3 Runestones into your skills, you may aim to get a Rank 3 Crimson Runestone for your Ray of Frost skill. But if you first find a Rank 3 Indigo Runestone, you might say "Aaww that isn't what I was hoping to find, but it makes it better then the skill is currently, so I might chuck it in for now and use it for awhile." with this system, I could see myself chopping and changing my skills as I found/brought Runestones, which seems much diverse as to the new Skill Rune system in where we progressively unlock new Skill Runes and we'll all probably just end up using the highest unlockable one we've unlocked, as I presume it will be the most powerful and beneficial.
Yes it's less random, this is a loss but it is also easier for balance. On the other hand your example is meh, now if you want crimson but only unlocked indigo that same scenario will happen, it just doesn't happen randomly anymore.
However if the Skill Runes are all even, with not anyone being the most powerful or beneficial Skill Rune and the advantages and disadvantages of each one are roughly equal to one-another... There wouldn't be much point wanting to aim for the higher level Skill Runes, would there?.
For example, if you unlock a new Skill Rune at level 15 for a skill you like and use that Skill Rune on that skill, and later at level 30 you unlock another one and see that you get a minor advantage in one thing for a minor disadvantage in another, why bother changing it at all? Why shouldn't you just keep using it the way you have been?
Matter of preference and variety of play. You will try it and decide whether or not you like the change. It's easy to test the change.
To summerize, it seems like the Skill Rune system have less customisation then the Runestone system, as the Skill Rune system seems very linear and very progressive based, which kind of cuts down our choices for our character builds.
P.S Im not in the Diablo 3 Beta so at the moment I'm just speculating off what I read on the blog post. I hope I get the opportunity to play the Beta and give feedback from my actual game play experience with the new system
I wouldn't say it has less customization, only the loss in ranks makes less variet in how powerful a spell is. But yes it's more linear.
I don't really agree with much of the changes. I like at how the Runes are no longer items but I also hate it. I feel that upgrading your skills via runes should mean you got them through drops. But I also see at how it could be frustrating to not get the rune you wanted. I also don't like the default for the skills. What I mean is that you can only place certain skills in certain hotkeys. It doesn't seem to make sense in my eyes. It is not like you were given all of the skills right off the bat so you learn which skills do what then you can decide from there. I also did read the article and I know that there is a toggle button. But it just feels like one of the things they added that had no place in the game. In all, I am a bit disappointed. But with the last hurdle out of the way, we can now get to finding out the release date. Which will hopefully happen in a couple weeks.
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I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
I bet they were testing the game in Nightmare their inventories were full of runestones. And they got sick of getting the same runestone(s) over and over again. F the item way, this way is better. Also, it looks like you have two skill capabilities instead of just one. Go Blizzard!
@snowhammer Was just using an example mate, I pulled a random skil with random Runestones. My point was the Runestones 'seemed' like the have more customization (or builds if you will) because of the random drop factor of the Runestones. The Skill Runes system is unlocked on a level basis (which is quite linear) opposed to an item drop basis (which is more chance) which seems like more diversity. As I said, I cant really tell to much just by reading the post, I'm assuming someone playing the Beta now would have a better view of the system. I guess I'm also asking the question "Is the Skill Rune system as diverse of even more diverse then the Runestones system?" as well on voicing my opinion that "It seems like the Skill Rune system is less diverse then the Runestone system" xD if that makes any sense.
Wow this is a really big change. I really like this though. Even more incentive to get that next level. I was however kind of looking forward to the rune drops with all their different levels. I guess they did say though that there are more items than d2. Hopefully this change works out.
I honestly love this rune system. I was sceptical at 1st because I really enjoy leveling my characters to create a new build and there's always a sense of achievement at the end. However they have still managed to cater to people like me by unlocking a new skill/slot/rune etc with every level. Also love how you can customise your charcacter for PvP very specificaly with these runes too. The spectram is huge and its going to make for some fantastic gameplay.
It sounds like they're turning Diablo III into more of an "easy mode" for newcomers instead of allowing wider customisation.
Sure, there could have been around 6000 combinations? That's much better than what is now on offer. I do agree that the inventory would have copped a flogging from all the pickups, but just take a leaf out of D2 with gems and transmute them to lessen the load?
I really hope there isn't anymore such game changers from Blizzard. I don't want D3 to turn into a single-click "I win" game.
Yes it's less random, this is a loss but it is also easier for balance. On the other hand your example is meh, now if you want crimson but only unlocked indigo that same scenario will happen, it just doesn't happen randomly anymore.
I understand what ya mean, but its not really what I meant. I guess what I saw the Runestones offering us is, at level 49 you could get anyone of the 5 Runestones and customize your skill in what ever one you got (well I guess people will probably just buy or wait for the specific one they wanted) but the point is all those Runestones were even at level 49, putting a Crimson Runestone in Cleave at level 13 should basically have the same advantages as all the other Runestones you could slot into that skill at level 13. But with the Skill Runes, those same advantages are reached at later levels, making the levels inbetween them seem worthless. If that makes sense xD.
Matter of preference and variety of play. You will try it and decide whether or not you like the change. It's easy to test the change.
Yeah I understand this as well, but if I unlock the Skill Rune I want early on, all other Skill Runes I unlock after that could be seen as pointless. But I can see how chopping and changing as I go/unlock new Skill Runes could be fun as well. Guess at the end of the day it depends on which Skill Runes you unlock for each skill first (which again kinda falls back on the Runestones being better as you could get any of them at anytime)
A lot of people are completely missing the boat on the Diablo 3 endgame. The removal of Runes as an item does nothing to change the process ("difficulty", "hardcoreness") of maximizing your endgame power, it simply shifts the power increase from one item to another.
Under the old Rune system, your level-60 Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind than mine because you socketed a higher ranked runestone. However, I used my rank-7 runestone on Frenzy so my Frenzy is stronger than yours.
Under the new system, your Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind because he has several pieces of +Whirlwind gear, while my Barbarian has a stronger Frenzy because he stacks +Frenzy gear.
The two systems accomplish the same thing. There will be plenty of post-60 progression and it will be driven by hunting for randomly generated items. Whether it is a randomly-dropped Runestone or a randomly-dropped piece of gear, the end result is equal.
Under the new system, your Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind because he has several pieces of +Whirlwind gear, while my Barbarian has a stronger Frenzy because he stacks +Frenzy gear.
Wheres the info on our gear giving us bonus to specific skills? I must have missed this
Under the new system, your Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind because he has several pieces of +Whirlwind gear, while my Barbarian has a stronger Frenzy because he stacks +Frenzy gear.
Wheres the info on our gear giving us bonus to specific skills? I must have missed this
You didn't. He's just making a wild guess and stating it as fact.
No where did Blizzard say there would be +skill attributes.
Why didn't Jay mention anything about a release date now that the Runes are out of the way?
Wasn't that the last big thing preventing a date? I seriously don't even give a shit if my fireball spell goes farther or looks different, the runes mean nothing to me.
Launch the damn game.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
I feel the icons of the skill runes, while varied, should also be color-coded to more easily identify the the type of bonus (damage, defensive, etc).
They could easily incorporate the previous colors and make those symbols glow with the appropriate color instead of the fire/lava look.
or they could have simply used the previous color coded icons for runes. They were fine and much more clean and identifiable then the current ones. If anything, these look like place holders more then anything. Kinda disappointing.
Under the new system, your Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind because he has several pieces of +Whirlwind gear, while my Barbarian has a stronger Frenzy because he stacks +Frenzy gear.
Wheres the info on our gear giving us bonus to specific skills? I must have missed this
You didn't. He's just making a wild guess and stating it as fact.
No where did Blizzard say there would be +skill attributes.
I agree. While there's a slight possibility this could happen, it's defiantly dangerous at the moment to just be talking about a system when there's no proof of it's existence. Personally? I think it would be cool to see + skills rolled out on items, but it's just my personal opinion that if they were to do that, they wouldn't do it on a skill to skill basis. That would make a LOT of gear useless to a lot of players. IF they wanted to go near that deep, they might do a + to whatever sub catagory a class might have, like the new ones.
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I'm a bit concerned about the "Skill Rune" system now though. From what I understand from Jay Wilsons post about the new Skill Rune system how you progressively unlock new Skill Runs for different Skills on certain levels, it seems very linear to me. It seems like when the Runes were itemized it was a bit more random as to which Runestone you would actually alter you skill with.
For example, if you just hit level 49 and were now able to put Rank 3 Runestones into your skills, you may aim to get a Rank 3 Crimson Runestone for your Ray of Frost skill. But if you first find a Rank 3 Indigo Runestone, you might say "Aaww that isn't what I was hoping to find, but it makes it better then the skill is currently, so I might chuck it in for now and use it for awhile." with this system, I could see myself chopping and changing my skills as I found/brought Runestones, which seems much diverse as to the new Skill Rune system in where we progressively unlock new Skill Runes and we'll all probably just end up using the highest unlockable one we've unlocked, as I presume it will be the most powerful and beneficial.
However if the Skill Runes are all even, with not anyone being the most powerful or beneficial Skill Rune and the advantages and disadvantages of each one are roughly equal to one-another... There wouldn't be much point wanting to aim for the higher level Skill Runes, would there?.
For example, if you unlock a new Skill Rune at level 15 for a skill you like and use that Skill Rune on that skill, and later at level 30 you unlock another one and see that you get a minor advantage in one thing for a minor disadvantage in another, why bother changing it at all? Why shouldn't you just keep using it the way you have been?
To summerize, it seems like the Skill Rune system have less customisation then the Runestone system, as the Skill Rune system seems very linear and very progressive based, which kind of cuts down our choices for our character builds.
P.S Im not in the Diablo 3 Beta so at the moment I'm just speculating off what I read on the blog post. I hope I get the opportunity to play the Beta and give feedback from my actual game play experience with the new system
Yes it's less random, this is a loss but it is also easier for balance. On the other hand your example is meh, now if you want crimson but only unlocked indigo that same scenario will happen, it just doesn't happen randomly anymore.
Matter of preference and variety of play. You will try it and decide whether or not you like the change. It's easy to test the change.
I wouldn't say it has less customization, only the loss in ranks makes less variet in how powerful a spell is. But yes it's more linear.
They could easily incorporate the previous colors and make those symbols glow with the appropriate color instead of the fire/lava look.
It sounds like they're turning Diablo III into more of an "easy mode" for newcomers instead of allowing wider customisation.
Sure, there could have been around 6000 combinations? That's much better than what is now on offer. I do agree that the inventory would have copped a flogging from all the pickups, but just take a leaf out of D2 with gems and transmute them to lessen the load?
I really hope there isn't anymore such game changers from Blizzard. I don't want D3 to turn into a single-click "I win" game.
I understand what ya mean, but its not really what I meant. I guess what I saw the Runestones offering us is, at level 49 you could get anyone of the 5 Runestones and customize your skill in what ever one you got (well I guess people will probably just buy or wait for the specific one they wanted) but the point is all those Runestones were even at level 49, putting a Crimson Runestone in Cleave at level 13 should basically have the same advantages as all the other Runestones you could slot into that skill at level 13. But with the Skill Runes, those same advantages are reached at later levels, making the levels inbetween them seem worthless. If that makes sense xD.
Yeah I understand this as well, but if I unlock the Skill Rune I want early on, all other Skill Runes I unlock after that could be seen as pointless. But I can see how chopping and changing as I go/unlock new Skill Runes could be fun as well. Guess at the end of the day it depends on which Skill Runes you unlock for each skill first (which again kinda falls back on the Runestones being better as you could get any of them at anytime)
Thanks for the feedback though mate
I hear ya mate, I liked the Rune System the way it was
Aha had a laugh at that your right though, they better not turn it into a single-click "I win" game. That would be terribly disappointing
Under the old Rune system, your level-60 Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind than mine because you socketed a higher ranked runestone. However, I used my rank-7 runestone on Frenzy so my Frenzy is stronger than yours.
Under the new system, your Barbarian might have a stronger Whirlwind because he has several pieces of +Whirlwind gear, while my Barbarian has a stronger Frenzy because he stacks +Frenzy gear.
The two systems accomplish the same thing. There will be plenty of post-60 progression and it will be driven by hunting for randomly generated items. Whether it is a randomly-dropped Runestone or a randomly-dropped piece of gear, the end result is equal.
Wheres the info on our gear giving us bonus to specific skills? I must have missed this
You didn't. He's just making a wild guess and stating it as fact.
No where did Blizzard say there would be +skill attributes.
Wasn't that the last big thing preventing a date? I seriously don't even give a shit if my fireball spell goes farther or looks different, the runes mean nothing to me.
Launch the damn game.
or they could have simply used the previous color coded icons for runes. They were fine and much more clean and identifiable then the current ones. If anything, these look like place holders more then anything. Kinda disappointing.
I agree. While there's a slight possibility this could happen, it's defiantly dangerous at the moment to just be talking about a system when there's no proof of it's existence. Personally? I think it would be cool to see + skills rolled out on items, but it's just my personal opinion that if they were to do that, they wouldn't do it on a skill to skill basis. That would make a LOT of gear useless to a lot of players. IF they wanted to go near that deep, they might do a + to whatever sub catagory a class might have, like the new ones.