Does anyone else use impale with greivous wounds as their big hitter. I use it with high crit chance and sometimes with sharpshooter and i get 330k crits with it. just wondering if this is overlooked. it helps alot against reflect damage teamed up with smokescreen.
Grievous Wounds is nice as a big hitter, paired with sharpshooter and smoke screen especially. But Shadow Power - Gloom makes Reflect packs trivial with any skill; Hungering Arrow is enough for most single target encounters and it's spammable; Cluster Granade is a big hitter AND aoe; Elemental Arrow is good enough for all encounters, has low cost, and scales well with all dps stats.
So Impale is nice and good, but not nice and good enough because it's not as generally usable as other skills. I used to rely on Impale+SS but then took an elemental arrow to the knee.... err, I mean it was a pain in the ass compared to my current build (Elemental Arrow, Hungering Arrow, Smoke Screen, Shadow Power, Preparation, Bat).
As I see it the problem is that it's single target unlike many other spells that can hit multiple.
But yea might be a bit overlooked, due to it being too much of a "just normal single target spell"
oh impale is my big hitter yes but i still use nether tentacles as well. impale takes down those elites and champions much much faster than nether tentacles.
I dont get bilds like the one posted above...Hungering arrow and Elemental arrow as only offensive abilities must be extremely slow. AE does not cut it single target and while Hungering arrow is versatile, it is not strong enough to be the only single target damage dealer.
Obviously it depends on gear. Elemental Arrow and Hungering Arrow scale extremely well with crit rating and attack speed. Boosted with a healthy amount of crit damage, I maw down most elites in nine seconds (three Shadow Powers) while facetanking them. After 1.04 elite damage is so low, that I can do that in glasscannon gear with crappy defenses.
I dont get bilds like the one posted above...Hungering arrow and Elemental arrow as only offensive abilities must be extremely slow. AE does not cut it single target and while Hungering arrow is versatile, it is not strong enough to be the only single target damage dealer.
Obviously it depends on gear. Elemental Arrow and Hungering Arrow scale extremely well with crit rating and attack speed. Boosted with a healthy amount of crit damage, I maw down most elites in nine seconds (three Shadow Powers) while facetanking them. After 1.04 elite damage is so low, that I can do that in glasscannon gear with crappy defenses.
^^^This
I'm using only Hungering Arrow and Ball Lightning as my single and AE offensive skills. I use both RoJ and a quiver that gives me +23% elemental arrow damage, it's very effective in dealing with both trash mobs and elite packs.
Impale is sure a bit hitter without doubt, my Impale easily crit for 1 million damage on elites; but consider most packs have 1.5mil+ health, so I need atleast 6 impale (150 hatred) that all crit to finish off a blue elite pack. With Ball Lightning, I probably only need half of those hatred simply because they penetrate and are more efficient.
One of the things that sucks about the NV buff system is that you can't swap between a general AOE build for champ packs and a single target build for bosses. Or swap in a utility ability for one specific fight. So even something as attractive as Impale winds up falling off my bars and not getting used.
I wish Blizzard had just decided to abandon the concept of fixed "builds" altogether, this halfway solution just gets in the way of itself.
I prefer chemical burn. The dot forces me to space out my impales and not front load them and waste hatred. If you let the dot work, it does much more damage than grievous wounds.
I prefer chemical burn. The dot forces me to space out my impales and not front load them and waste hatred. If you let the dot work, it does much more damage than grievous wounds.
Well, I was playing with Impale: Chemical Burn pre-1.0.4 but since then I have increased my crit chance, therefore, I'm now playing with Grievous Wounds rune.
Chemical Burn has also a problem with front-loading burst with stacked Sharpshooter, which I still love to do. If I spot an elite, I can wait few more seconds--for example ID my rares for the time being--to get SS to 100%. I will send 2-3 Ball lightnings followed by 2xImpale that will all crit resulting in massive burst.
Impale with Grievous Wounds also let me deal better with damage reflect affix since I can kite a bit, let SS stack, unload 2x Impale under Smoke Screen, shoot 1 or 2 Hungering arrows, rinse and repeat.
I will give Grievous Wounds rune a run tomorrow since I have not tested it post patch even if they doubled the dot damage.
Yea, but the patch also increased chemical burn's damage. 485% weapon damage for 25 hatred is probably the most hatred efficient spender we have. I'm running around 50% crit chance and over 400% crit damage and i still prefer the efficiency of chemical burns to the burst potential of grevious wounds. You can't front-load damage with chemical burns like you can with grievous wounds, but when it comes to pure hatred efficiency, chemical burns is hard to beat.
I use CA exclusively, and I would say it works even better in close-quarter areas as the clusters will all hit. I agree it's slow and it's costly but that's the benefit of going dual wield, I can regenerate hatred pretty fast, couple with the bat it's no problem.
Problem I experienced with EA is you have to stand and shoot where as CA offers a bit more mobility which is the core of my playing style :>
I only really used Impale for boss fight while progressing, nowadays most elites die in a few CA
Impale still pales compared to Cluster Arrow: Loaded for Bear to be honest.
Basically:
Pros Impale:
lower hatred cost
Even:
sure hit (fast travel speed)
Pros CA:LFB:
higher crit damage (304%+100%=404% vs 365%)
way higher noncrit damage (404% vs 265%)
AoE
If you consider how much damage HA (or Bola Shot) already does, you're pretty much always better off just using CA instead of Impale. It should be pretty even for single target DPS (depending on your crit chance and which HA rune you use) but once there's more than one enemy, CA becomes so much better.
If they just changed the rune to actually double the damage done on a crit (265%->530% instead of 265%->365%), it'd already be viable.
A few things here. First, Impale has HALF the hatred cost of CA, and does far more than half the damage. Comparing the damage 1 for 1 isn't really fair (It also seems to attack faster... but that is probably my imagination).
Second, you seem to be saying GW adds +100% weapon damage (265% -> 365%) on crits. Now, I haven't done any serious testing of this, but my assumption is that it adds +100% crit damage with that attack (and therefore is better when you have low crit damage, but worse at the values most demon hunters run). This makes GW worse than you were saying, if it is true (has anyone actually tested this to see how it works?).
Finally, you assume that one grenade from CA will hit the elite. I definitely have times when this isn't the case, especially when the elite is moving. I think it is possible for more than one grenade to hit pushing the damage even higher, but I think I average less than 1.
I run with Entangling Shot: Chain Gang and Impale: Overpenetration. If I'm kiting most things line up anyway, so that's all the aoe I really need (although the swarms of scorpions in Act 3 are slightly annoying). I have tried CA, AE, ToC... this is the build I like best. I don't think the relative strengths of different builds are nearly as important as just finding the one you enjoy.
Well, I was playing with Impale: Chemical Burn pre-1.0.4 but since then I have increased my crit chance, therefore, I'm now playing with Grievous Wounds rune.
Chemical Burn has also a problem with front-loading burst with stacked Sharpshooter, which I still love to do.
You can't front-load damage with chemical burns like you can with grievous wounds, but when it comes to pure hatred efficiency, chemical burns is hard to beat.
Just FYI, the DoT of Impale: Chemical Burn can, itself, crit. You lose a bit of the DoT if you hit the same target twice quickly in succession (it overwrites the previous application) but guranteed Impale crit + guranteed DoT crit with sharpshooter at the start of fights is nice. I personally do not use Grevous Wounds for that reason.
Curious is anyone else has tried no generators? Would love some feedback from others who have.
I'm using Chakram and Impale with great efficiency in Act 3/4.
I'm using a Chakram based Chest, i also have a Chakram based Amulet, but have found with 9 hatred per sec I don't need the Amulet, as I passively regen enough hatred to spam Chakram almost indefinitely (lose 1.5 hatred per sec if I'm standing still shooting or stuttering)
Impale's hatred per damage coefficient coupled with Grievous Wounds makes bursting down 1 of an elite pack before they get close enough to ToC them.
Thanks to BobBobson regarding the information regarding Chemical burn's DoT being able to Crit, I avoided Chemical burn as I didn't feel I could withhold myself from using another Impale within 2 seconds, but if the DoT can Crit, this should give me enough incentive to give it a go and hold back on the 2nd impale.
You can get a Mara's with Chakram reduce too, they are cheap, or Skullgrasp if you have funds
Chakram works kinda like Neth Tent, hits multiple targets, but once each only. For 187% damage rather than a generator (Bola is ok with increased damage, but i don't like waiting for the explodes), I see 200-250k crits with it, 350ish with Impale.
Though with ToC at the moment, you can use that to smash elites without other attacks if you have a lot of disc/regen and prep
So Impale is nice and good, but not nice and good enough because it's not as generally usable as other skills. I used to rely on Impale+SS but then took an elemental arrow to the knee.... err, I mean it was a pain in the ass compared to my current build (Elemental Arrow, Hungering Arrow, Smoke Screen, Shadow Power, Preparation, Bat).
All puns intended >.<
oh impale is my big hitter yes but i still use nether tentacles as well. impale takes down those elites and champions much much faster than nether tentacles.
Obviously it depends on gear. Elemental Arrow and Hungering Arrow scale extremely well with crit rating and attack speed. Boosted with a healthy amount of crit damage, I maw down most elites in nine seconds (three Shadow Powers) while facetanking them. After 1.04 elite damage is so low, that I can do that in glasscannon gear with crappy defenses.
^^^This
I'm using only Hungering Arrow and Ball Lightning as my single and AE offensive skills. I use both RoJ and a quiver that gives me +23% elemental arrow damage, it's very effective in dealing with both trash mobs and elite packs.
Impale is sure a bit hitter without doubt, my Impale easily crit for 1 million damage on elites; but consider most packs have 1.5mil+ health, so I need atleast 6 impale (150 hatred) that all crit to finish off a blue elite pack. With Ball Lightning, I probably only need half of those hatred simply because they penetrate and are more efficient.
I wish Blizzard had just decided to abandon the concept of fixed "builds" altogether, this halfway solution just gets in the way of itself.
Yea, but the patch also increased chemical burn's damage. 485% weapon damage for 25 hatred is probably the most hatred efficient spender we have. I'm running around 50% crit chance and over 400% crit damage and i still prefer the efficiency of chemical burns to the burst potential of grevious wounds. You can't front-load damage with chemical burns like you can with grievous wounds, but when it comes to pure hatred efficiency, chemical burns is hard to beat.
Problem I experienced with EA is you have to stand and shoot where as CA offers a bit more mobility which is the core of my playing style :>
I only really used Impale for boss fight while progressing, nowadays most elites die in a few CA
DH & Crusader
A few things here. First, Impale has HALF the hatred cost of CA, and does far more than half the damage. Comparing the damage 1 for 1 isn't really fair (It also seems to attack faster... but that is probably my imagination).
Second, you seem to be saying GW adds +100% weapon damage (265% -> 365%) on crits. Now, I haven't done any serious testing of this, but my assumption is that it adds +100% crit damage with that attack (and therefore is better when you have low crit damage, but worse at the values most demon hunters run). This makes GW worse than you were saying, if it is true (has anyone actually tested this to see how it works?).
Finally, you assume that one grenade from CA will hit the elite. I definitely have times when this isn't the case, especially when the elite is moving. I think it is possible for more than one grenade to hit pushing the damage even higher, but I think I average less than 1.
I run with Entangling Shot: Chain Gang and Impale: Overpenetration. If I'm kiting most things line up anyway, so that's all the aoe I really need (although the swarms of scorpions in Act 3 are slightly annoying). I have tried CA, AE, ToC... this is the build I like best. I don't think the relative strengths of different builds are nearly as important as just finding the one you enjoy.
Just FYI, the DoT of Impale: Chemical Burn can, itself, crit. You lose a bit of the DoT if you hit the same target twice quickly in succession (it overwrites the previous application) but guranteed Impale crit + guranteed DoT crit with sharpshooter at the start of fights is nice. I personally do not use Grevous Wounds for that reason.
I'm using Chakram and Impale with great efficiency in Act 3/4.
Gear/Spec: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Robzy-6476/hero/6943504
I'm using a Chakram based Chest, i also have a Chakram based Amulet, but have found with 9 hatred per sec I don't need the Amulet, as I passively regen enough hatred to spam Chakram almost indefinitely (lose 1.5 hatred per sec if I'm standing still shooting or stuttering)
Impale's hatred per damage coefficient coupled with Grievous Wounds makes bursting down 1 of an elite pack before they get close enough to ToC them.
Thanks to BobBobson regarding the information regarding Chemical burn's DoT being able to Crit, I avoided Chemical burn as I didn't feel I could withhold myself from using another Impale within 2 seconds, but if the DoT can Crit, this should give me enough incentive to give it a go and hold back on the 2nd impale.
But interesting build nonetheless, you pretty much have to have the chest that reduce chakram cost to make it work tho.
DH & Crusader
You can get a Mara's with Chakram reduce too, they are cheap, or Skullgrasp if you have funds
Chakram works kinda like Neth Tent, hits multiple targets, but once each only. For 187% damage rather than a generator (Bola is ok with increased damage, but i don't like waiting for the explodes), I see 200-250k crits with it, 350ish with Impale.
Though with ToC at the moment, you can use that to smash elites without other attacks if you have a lot of disc/regen and prep