Quote from Kajikami»Well, going with your numbers: A: (1 + .5*4.75) = 3.375B: (1 + (.35-.45)*(3.50-4))*1.4 = 3.115-3.92 So it depends where exactly in those ranges you fall. It's just simple math. That said, as Ebola pointed out, it is entirely possible to find pieces with both crit chance/damage and elemental damage.
This math seems flawed. Shoudnt it be .5*1 + .5*4.75 = 2.875. 1 is your base hit, but when you crit you dont do your base hit, you only do your crit hit. So you only do your base hit 50% of the times with 50% crit chance. With your formula, 50% crit chance and 0% crit damage you would end up with: 1+.5*1.5=1.75 damage, which makes no sense considering your crits are only 1.5 damage to begin with. The correct way would be: .5*1+.5*1.5=1.25 damage. Which makes sense because with 50% extra damage on a crit 50% of the times you obviously end up doing 25% more damage.
If you have just the base 50% crit damage, you do (1 + .5*.5) = 1.25 times base damage, just like you said. If you had 150% crit damage you'd do (1 + .5*1.5) = 1.75 times base damage. I'm assuming that when he said 475% CHD, he meant that much bonus damage, (which is what is shown on your char sheet).
Keywardens actually also have a chance to drop a different key. I got the Key of Bones off the act 2 warden twice in a row and thought for sure it was bugged, till I looked it up and saw they had a small chance to drop a different key. Sure enough, I ran him again and got his normal key (Gluttony).
Also, if you learn the plans, I believe you should never have them drop again. (Both keys and plans are completely separate from the ones at level 60, if that is the source of the confusion).
Could we also increase the cap please? That would be wonderful
I don't think you're meant to hoard them though, why would you want to have 500+?
Some people like to build up a whole bunch of something (i.e. caches, blood shards) and then use them all at once so they are pretty much guaranteed to get something good. It doesn't really make a difference one way or the other... I don't see any reason why they needed to put in a cap at all.
What you are forgetting in the monster hp discussion: in act1, in addition to gaining health for MP, monsters also gain health for being level 63 instead of 61 when you are switching on monster power. You'll also gain much more than 10% more exp, because level 63 monsters are worth much more than level 61 monsters.
To make it short: you can't really include MP0 in those tables for act1 and 2 (the items will also be significantly worse because they'll only roll level 61/62 affixes if you play without MP in act 1 and 2).
That's absolutely true, if you want to do Act 1 or 2 you definitely want MP1. That doesn't mean MP0 Act 3 wouldn't still be more efficient though.
I will just say this, if the Blizzard calculations is "150% of", not "150% increase to" health, then the other guy is right. If its the other way around, I am right about the monster power sweet spot, and the data I gathered seemed to support my theory.
In terms of keys and extra items, correct, I am not factoring those things in. I am just talking about very basic % bonuses based on the chart Blizz provided. For me, I find it useful, since my character is not steamrolling the content, "knowing" that MP3, MP4 is the most bang for the buck is good to know. Maybe it will be for others.
Again, if someone can provide confirmation of the health % increase and how it works I would love to know.
I can't say I'm positive MP1 is 150% of MP0 and not 100+150=250%. It would fit better with the pattern (which seems to be +50% of the last level) and with my experience (MP1 doesn't seem like things are more than twice as hard to kill than MP0).
However, even if I'm wrong, that just makes your chart even LESS accurate.
I'm saying MP0 has the lowest HP/loot. If you increase the HP of all the others, it just makes their HP/loot higher, and so MP0 becomes comparatively even better.
With how things scale, you need to have >90% (by how much depends on other factors like paragon level and gear bonuses and what you actually care about the most) of your time spent moving between monsters rather than fighting them when playing at MP0. That is in order to even think about raising it beyond MP0. So unless you have a lot of DPS and slow movement speed, there is little point raising monster power for XP and MF. Keys are a different thing, though, as for the first few MP levels the key drop chance out-scales even just the raw monster HP, and due to time spent moving obviously the time it takes you to complete a run scales more weakly than the monster HP scaling.
If you look hard enough you'll find the excel file I posted that takes everything into account, and the only challenge is to figure out what number to put into the %time spent running (especially if you're a sprint barb that runs and fights at the same time but has to go back and fight again if he doesn't have enough damage), and how to factor XP vs MF vs key efficiency, as you can often only maximize one at a time (though xp and MF efficiency are often close, unlike key efficiency which is usually far off).
If you look at my charts, we pretty much agree, at reasonable PL or MF levels, and with NV, you should stay on MP0 till ~15% time in combat or less (meaning 85% time running or higher).
Btw, your download links over on the other thread are all dead, so I couldn't actually look at your chart to compare.
OK, I decided to see if I could do a more useful version of this chart.
To take killing speed into account, I added "% time spent in combat at MP0" as one axis of the chart.
This is assuming that the time spent in combat increases proportionally to monster health (not the % time, the actual time).
With that as one axis and base MF/GF or XP as the other, I didn't have space to show an efficiency comparison among the different MP levels, so I just list the optimal MP.
Let me keep this simple. Ignore NV, and PL, and gear.
You have a base 100% experience gain, and 100% magic find.
Add those in to your chart above, and you get:
Clearly, MP0 is best. Adding NV or PL only increases the effect.
Your calculations are flawed. You are counting the bonus experience/gold find/magic find as though that is all there is.
Assuming a ruby in your helm, 5 NV stacks, and a decent paragon level/MF gear, your starting stats probably look like
200% experience,
250% MF/GF
so in your chart instead of xp going 10, 20, 30, 45, it should go 210, 220, 230, 245, same for MF/GF.
If you make that change it becomes pretty clear that you should just stay in ML 0 for everything.
Even if you assume you are naked with no NV, the base 100% experience gain and magic find you have would make the optimal ML be 0.
However, that is assuming you spend 100% of your time dealing damage to monsters. The reason higher monster levels can be beneficial is because more time spent killing each monster means a lower percentage travel time. Even then, most people are probably best off in ML1 or ML2... the only real reason to go higher is for keys (which really do roughly follow your xp chart, making the best ML 3 or 4) or just because it's fun.
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Also, if you learn the plans, I believe you should never have them drop again. (Both keys and plans are completely separate from the ones at level 60, if that is the source of the confusion).
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Anyone seen one smaller?
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A: (1 + .5*4.75) = 3.375
B: (1 + (.35-.45)*(3.50-4))*1.4 = 3.115-3.92
So it depends where exactly in those ranges you fall. It's just simple math.
That said, as Ebola pointed out, it is entirely possible to find pieces with both crit chance/damage and elemental damage.
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I will never be able to afford that kind of gear. 500% crit damage with a 2 hander.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kajikami-1128/hero/16112951
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That's absolutely true, if you want to do Act 1 or 2 you definitely want MP1. That doesn't mean MP0 Act 3 wouldn't still be more efficient though.
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However, even if I'm wrong, that just makes your chart even LESS accurate.
I'm saying MP0 has the lowest HP/loot. If you increase the HP of all the others, it just makes their HP/loot higher, and so MP0 becomes comparatively even better.
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Btw, your download links over on the other thread are all dead, so I couldn't actually look at your chart to compare.
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To take killing speed into account, I added "% time spent in combat at MP0" as one axis of the chart.
This is assuming that the time spent in combat increases proportionally to monster health (not the % time, the actual time).
With that as one axis and base MF/GF or XP as the other, I didn't have space to show an efficiency comparison among the different MP levels, so I just list the optimal MP.
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You have a base 100% experience gain, and 100% magic find.
Add those in to your chart above, and you get:
Clearly, MP0 is best. Adding NV or PL only increases the effect.
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Assuming a ruby in your helm, 5 NV stacks, and a decent paragon level/MF gear, your starting stats probably look like
200% experience,
250% MF/GF
so in your chart instead of xp going 10, 20, 30, 45, it should go 210, 220, 230, 245, same for MF/GF.
If you make that change it becomes pretty clear that you should just stay in ML 0 for everything.
Even if you assume you are naked with no NV, the base 100% experience gain and magic find you have would make the optimal ML be 0.
However, that is assuming you spend 100% of your time dealing damage to monsters. The reason higher monster levels can be beneficial is because more time spent killing each monster means a lower percentage travel time. Even then, most people are probably best off in ML1 or ML2... the only real reason to go higher is for keys (which really do roughly follow your xp chart, making the best ML 3 or 4) or just because it's fun.