Sigh.... i miss the late days of Diablo 3 Vanilla with almost no post about this matter. Now these threads "I played for X hours and i got nothing" are growing like mushrooms. Bad luck streaks happens, and even if you got something in that time, maybe that item wasn't of your liking or an upgrade... the next complain will be "I'm not getting upgrades after playing for Y hours?".
Try playing any other ARPGs and you won't get usefull items either in that time you played if the rng is against you, just deal with it. Meaningfull rewards aren't guaranteed ever in this genre, you just have to play the game and sooner or later you will get something.
Just another reality check for a lot of us players out there battling the RNG in this "social experiment of a game" called D3 ROS.
Just another reality check of the blatant cruel RNG that some accounts suffer.
Just another reality check enlightening us that a "Middle Ground" is needed in obtaining loot in this flawed system.
Just an eye opener for everyone blinded by "RNG is RNG / I'm geared and find loot so everyone else must too" logic.
Have a nice day.
3 hours means nothing. Was that 3 rifts? or 15? And absolutely we do NOT need a 'middle ground', which I assume by that you mean a system that will just give everyone legendaries on a set timer.
The thing people seem to not understand about randomness, is that chances are you WON'T experience the average most of the time. Remember, because it's random, that means more likely than not you and everyone else is either on the lucky, or the unlucky side of it, thus resulting in an 'average'.
Just the other day, I solo'd almost 5x T3 rifts and didn't get a single drop, and that includes gambling. The next day I proceeded to go on a seven drop streak, within 45 minutes. You'll never see the 1 drop every hour average, or whatever it is. You'll instead constantly see the zero drops for X amount of time, and then the lucky drops for Y amount of time.
Indeed. Instead of saying "X hours played", a much better indicator is "X rifts completed". "X hours played" is useless if you spend 15 minutes trying to kill a single elite pack. So, how many rifts have you done in those 3 hours?
I am of the strong opinion (I can't prove it with direct Blue statements, so therefore I won't say it is a fact) that your characters/accounts are seeded with a luck rating upon creation. This lets the RNG system be a little more kind to some "lucky" folks and not so frequently kind to some "unlucky" folks.
However there are just bad streaks of luck. The timer is there to prevent one from going on too long, but it doesn't mean that after a bad streak you will have a good streak. It just means that you get a lego every two hour or so.
For instance - I have given Kadala thousands of shards and in return I have gotten one legendary item that soon transformed itself into a Forgotten Soul of Shame. Other folks have gambled 100 shards in front of me and walked away with 3 legos that were decent.
OP - I know you are frustrated. I don't get amazing drops all the time or very frequently at all. I have two set pieces because the other few I have encountered weren't even for my class. Oh I did get a Blackthorne that had really, really, really bad affix rolls. But its just the way it is.
Just another reality check for a lot of us players out there battling the RNG in this "social experiment of a game" called D3 ROS.
Just another reality check of the blatant cruel RNG that some accounts suffer.
Just another reality check enlightening us that a "Middle Ground" is needed in obtaining loot in this flawed system.
Just an eye opener for everyone blinded by "RNG is RNG / I'm geared and find loot so everyone else must too" logic.
Have a nice day.
And absolutely we do NOT need a 'middle ground', which I assume by that you mean a system that will just give everyone legendaries on a set timer.
There actually is suppose to be a hidden timer that after about 1 hours play/killing time, the game checks to see if you have recieved a legendary and if not, drops one for you. This is the questionable mechanic that ppl i think are complaining about. But as Blizzard has said, specific accounts wont benefit from it. It's there for everyone. So either the mechanic is still broken, or ppl just arnt seeing them plop on the screen. I've always been on the bad luck side of RNG, but i have never gone playing more than an hour and not found a leg/set item.
There actually is suppose to be a hidden timer that after about 1 hours play/killing time, the game checks to see if you have recieved a legendary and if not, drops one for you. This is the questionable mechanic that ppl i think are complaining about. But as Blizzard has said, specific accounts wont benefit from it. It's there for everyone. So either the mechanic is still broken, or ppl just arnt seeing them plop on the screen. I've always been on the bad luck side of RNG, but i have never gone playing more than an hour and not found a leg/set item.
As far as I know, it's 2 hours, and after which it slowly but steadily the drop rate increases steadily until a legendary finally drops, then it resets. The mechanic merely protects one from extreme bad lucks of the RNG, which happens more often than you think, given the large player base.
I am of the strong opinion (I can't prove it with direct Blue statements, so therefore I won't say it is a fact) that your characters/accounts are seeded with a luck rating upon creation. This lets the RNG system be a little more kind to some "lucky" folks and not so frequently kind to some "unlucky" folks.
I am of the strong opinion (I can't prove it with direct psychiatric reports, so therefore I won't say it is a fact) that you are suffering from paranoid delusions. I'm too polite to say that you are batshit insane, although others may not be.
I am of the strong opinion (I can't prove it with direct Blue statements, so therefore I won't say it is a fact) that your characters/accounts are seeded with a luck rating upon creation. This lets the RNG system be a little more kind to some "lucky" folks and not so frequently kind to some "unlucky" folks.
However there are just bad streaks of luck. The timer is there to prevent one from going on too long, but it doesn't mean that after a bad streak you will have a good streak. It just means that you get a lego every two hour or so.
For instance - I have given Kadala thousands of shards and in return I have gotten one legendary item that soon transformed itself into a Forgotten Soul of Shame. Other folks have gambled 100 shards in front of me and walked away with 3 legos that were decent.
OP - I know you are frustrated. I don't get amazing drops all the time or very frequently at all. I have two set pieces because the other few I have encountered weren't even for my class. Oh I did get a Blackthorne that had really, really, really bad affix rolls. But its just the way it is.
When you start making theories like characters/accounts with a luck rating , think to yourself : why the hell would the game developer do this ever. There's your answer , they never did it. Notice how very often people who claim they always have bad luck often claim it's across multiple games. Most likely just ineficient farming or being very selective on what being lucky actually means.
Yes , I gambled 14.000 blood shards to try get a witching hour , no I didn't get it. But if I only single out this event than ofcourse I might seem unlucky , but just singling out one event means nothing. There's also the day where I found 3 amazing upgrades that I still use as of today. Try looking a bit more at the actual good drops and focus less on the times you had bad luck.
May I ask you the same question you asked me; why would a developer put a seed/luck rating mechanic into a game? I don't think you considered that for yourself before you responded to my statement. Let me answer your question - in a general sense and then you can tear apart my feelings as to how this general sense applies to the Diablo 3 system.
Seeding a luck rating is actually a part of a lot of games. I know (very personally) a couple of lead game designers who educated me years ago on this mechanic. Its there so that when a game is launched there are players that immediately begin to gain access to the content available. Find the right weapon at the right time, go into the next area of content right away. Get your character to the furthest end point of the content because you are lucky - then make a new class of character and start all over again. This equates to something they call "fun." When people have "fun" they tell their friends about it, they go online and rave about it. People believe other people and they go buy the game for themselves to have "fun."
For games that have an economy (like D3V did) this lets players immediately begin to find quality items (that have been designed on purpose to be of quality) quickly and begin to populate the trading system. Aside from profits that can be made by trading, this fast seeding of an economy also lets other plays (who aren't as lucky) see the items out there and it motivates them to continue to play. A low luck rating actually makes players invest their time longer and longer into the game. They will inevitably complain about the experience, but rest assured there are folks out there that will tell them "RNG is just RNG."
RNG is too random in many cases to be uniformly the same for everyone. And if you actually STOP and consider what I'm saying, you might see another side to this discussion. If it is truly random for everyone, then at some point everyone is going to have a bad streak. If too many players had a bad streak at once, they wouldn't have anything to trade or sell. They would complain on the internet and other people might believe them. The general public would stop liking the game and start to hate it.
And a final, general comparison to real world events that show you mechanics like a seed/luck rating is viable for video games; casinos. Ever hear the statement "the loosest slots around!" This means that by law the Casino has to pay out a certain percentage of their take to their patrons. If all the machines paid out at the same flat percentage then everyone has an equal chance of winning a jackpot or losing. So everyone could win at the same time (theoretically) or everyone could lose their ass at the same time. This would be bad for the Casino. So some machines have a higher pay out percentage and some are at the base. So when you are pumping in dollar after dollar and someone next to you sits down, pops in their first dollar and they win a jackpot and get all excited, the average player might think "my jackpot is just around the corner - better keep putting in these dollars!"
It exists. I just don't say it that way when referencing this game, because unless I can link to a quote from a Blue, people tend to get all wonky on these forums when you state a theory as a fact.
So after that analysis - do you Magier556 have any thoughts about what I've said that might be a little more diplomatic than your first post?
While theoretically everyone can win or lose at the same time, the chance of that happening is so slim that there is no need to worry about it. I mean, there's a chance that all the atoms in your body spontaneously decay, and you die a horrible, horrible death. Similarly, casinos do not worry about everyone starts winning at the same time, except if it is because they accidentally set the house edge to be negative. If all they want it someone to be lucky, and other to be unlucky, a normal RNG will produce exactly what they want. The only thing they need to take care of is the win rate, and the law of truly large number will do the rest.
If you claim there are games that seeds a character's luck, please tell me what those games are, with proof.
I was going through a dry spell yesterday and got 1 legendary after like 4 hours ( I said I wudnt log off until I found one). It was a tal rasha set helm with 6% crit. That waiting time made this drop so much more awesome!
Sigh.... i miss the late days of Diablo 3 Vanilla with almost no post about this matter. Now these threads "I played for X hours and i got nothing" are growing like mushrooms. Bad luck streaks happens, and even if you got something in that time, maybe that item wasn't of your liking or an upgrade... the next complain will be "I'm not getting upgrades after playing for Y hours?".
Try playing any other ARPGs and you won't get usefull items either in that time you played if the rng is against you, just deal with it. Meaningfull rewards aren't guaranteed ever in this genre, you just have to play the game and sooner or later you will get something.
or in the real world where we aren't all crazy sociopaths (i.e. almost every diablo addict ever) this would be called a gambling addiction. normal people would just quit the game, gambling addicts keep feeding the machine their time and quarters
I've had many dry spells, actually. First 6500 blood shards - zero legendaries. 10 days and ~100 hours played after release - not a single useful "upgrade" at all. 1200 bounties (about 1000 of those in act 1 Torment 1) and no ring. Then, I found the Mirrorball - yay! Don't like fire a lot, but the damage was just to insane to pass on. However, after that drop there was another 6 days of farming (over 100 rifts and a few hundred bounties) with no upgrade. Couldn't really complain because of the Mirrorball, but it was also the only somewhat decent item.
This weekend, I found my first Tal's piece (orb), Thunderfury, and Moonlight Ward. Three little drops within a couple of hours turned my motivation as well as my wizard from "kinda ok-ish" into "totally OP".
Why does this happen? Because it's random. Random means random, random does not mean "equally distributed". What we expect when we throw a dice 6 times is a somewhat random distribution of six different numbers, like 3,5,1,6,2,4. We don't expect 1,2,3,4,5,6 and neither do we expect 1,1,1,1,1,1. All these three distributions, however, have the exact same probability to appear (if you take into account the exact order of the sequence). If you translate this to drop rates it means that drops won't always appear in perfect sequences of one upgrade per day. There might be a huge upgrade tomorrow and nothing for days; there might be daily upgrades, or for some super unlucky persons no upgrade ever.
And this is what makes playing so worthwhile: after you got an item you have the same chance on the next mob to find an item again. If loot wasn't random but equally distributed to one legendary per hour, after every drop you'd know that for 59 minutes you won't see a beam. How lame would that be...
There actually is suppose to be a hidden timer that after about 1 hours play/killing time, the game checks to see if you have recieved a legendary and if not, drops one for you. This is the questionable mechanic that ppl i think are complaining about. But as Blizzard has said, specific accounts wont benefit from it. It's there for everyone. So either the mechanic is still broken, or ppl just arnt seeing them plop on the screen. I've always been on the bad luck side of RNG, but i have never gone playing more than an hour and not found a leg/set item.
As far as I know, it's 2 hours, and after which it slowly but steadily the drop rate increases steadily until a legendary finally drops, then it resets. The mechanic merely protects one from extreme bad lucks of the RNG, which happens more often than you think, given the large player base.
That's almost correct.
As stated by Blizzard, this mechanic doesn't even start to kick in for SEVERAL hours, we're talking 8+, of 'in-combat' playing time, and most accounts will never benefit from this. If that ridiculously long bad luck streak continues, it very slowly raises the drop chance and then resets when you get one.
It's absolutely not on a 1-hour timer, that was just a frame of reference back when 2.01 dropped as to how long between legendaries they were trying to make the drop rate, and is now largely irrelevant with the new drop rate buffs.
I think the big part to me is that randomness should actually decrease as your torment level goes up. Which is some what backward since an already powerful char should see more items then a low power level char who actually needs them. The reason why thou is as a torment 4 able barb it is very hard to find upgrades without seeing a large number of drops. So little instances of doing say 5 bounties and running the rift at a leisure pace but not getting anything but the blood shards is actually a little hard to accept. I have progressed I guess you can say to being able to do a higher difficulty that outside of gold and Xp has no real reward value.
I have a cindercoat. It only has 15% fire damage but I love being a fire barb. To actually upgrade that thing I need another three socket version with at least 480 strength, 470 vit(the reroll), and better than the fire skill reduction of 26% percent. It is a great chest. I like it but now the question is how many drops will I need to get one with 20% fire damage. If that should maybe take 1000 drops but you only average say 1 an hour even rolling torment 3/4 at a good pace I am already caped out and should just start playing another game. I never did any of the superfast farming exploits(to me chest runs on a torment level you cant kill the mobs is an exploit) or running a super low difficulty to murder everything in a sneeze.
just to prove your point... not to rub it in at all... first act 1 bounty I did I got that ring. and have since found so few set items that I can't even use it!
@elderbre: This is getting rather off-topic, but please don't spread the fallacy that loot in Diablo 3 is not random. Yes, computers are not truly random but generate so-called "pseudo random numbers". However, for the purpose of a Diablo 3 player, loot is random, period. The problem of PRNG maybe applies to security issues but not (well-programmed) computer games. In fact, the randomness of D3 loot is actually to the player's disadvantage and seemingly pseudo random loot would be better. For more about that, see this thread:http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6193839632 (or create a new thread if you want to discuss true randomness, or revive this thread).
Just another reality check of the blatant cruel RNG that some accounts suffer.
Just another reality check enlightening us that a "Middle Ground" is needed in obtaining loot in this flawed system.
Just an eye opener for everyone blinded by "RNG is RNG / I'm geared and find loot so everyone else must too" logic.
Have a nice day.
Try playing any other ARPGs and you won't get usefull items either in that time you played if the rng is against you, just deal with it. Meaningfull rewards aren't guaranteed ever in this genre, you just have to play the game and sooner or later you will get something.
The thing people seem to not understand about randomness, is that chances are you WON'T experience the average most of the time. Remember, because it's random, that means more likely than not you and everyone else is either on the lucky, or the unlucky side of it, thus resulting in an 'average'.
Just the other day, I solo'd almost 5x T3 rifts and didn't get a single drop, and that includes gambling. The next day I proceeded to go on a seven drop streak, within 45 minutes. You'll never see the 1 drop every hour average, or whatever it is. You'll instead constantly see the zero drops for X amount of time, and then the lucky drops for Y amount of time.
TL;DR: Get ova it
Indeed. Instead of saying "X hours played", a much better indicator is "X rifts completed". "X hours played" is useless if you spend 15 minutes trying to kill a single elite pack. So, how many rifts have you done in those 3 hours?
However there are just bad streaks of luck. The timer is there to prevent one from going on too long, but it doesn't mean that after a bad streak you will have a good streak. It just means that you get a lego every two hour or so.
For instance - I have given Kadala thousands of shards and in return I have gotten one legendary item that soon transformed itself into a Forgotten Soul of Shame. Other folks have gambled 100 shards in front of me and walked away with 3 legos that were decent.
OP - I know you are frustrated. I don't get amazing drops all the time or very frequently at all. I have two set pieces because the other few I have encountered weren't even for my class. Oh I did get a Blackthorne that had really, really, really bad affix rolls. But its just the way it is.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
As far as I know, it's 2 hours, and after which it slowly but steadily the drop rate increases steadily until a legendary finally drops, then it resets. The mechanic merely protects one from extreme bad lucks of the RNG, which happens more often than you think, given the large player base.
Seeding a luck rating is actually a part of a lot of games. I know (very personally) a couple of lead game designers who educated me years ago on this mechanic. Its there so that when a game is launched there are players that immediately begin to gain access to the content available. Find the right weapon at the right time, go into the next area of content right away. Get your character to the furthest end point of the content because you are lucky - then make a new class of character and start all over again. This equates to something they call "fun." When people have "fun" they tell their friends about it, they go online and rave about it. People believe other people and they go buy the game for themselves to have "fun."
For games that have an economy (like D3V did) this lets players immediately begin to find quality items (that have been designed on purpose to be of quality) quickly and begin to populate the trading system. Aside from profits that can be made by trading, this fast seeding of an economy also lets other plays (who aren't as lucky) see the items out there and it motivates them to continue to play. A low luck rating actually makes players invest their time longer and longer into the game. They will inevitably complain about the experience, but rest assured there are folks out there that will tell them "RNG is just RNG."
RNG is too random in many cases to be uniformly the same for everyone. And if you actually STOP and consider what I'm saying, you might see another side to this discussion. If it is truly random for everyone, then at some point everyone is going to have a bad streak. If too many players had a bad streak at once, they wouldn't have anything to trade or sell. They would complain on the internet and other people might believe them. The general public would stop liking the game and start to hate it.
And a final, general comparison to real world events that show you mechanics like a seed/luck rating is viable for video games; casinos. Ever hear the statement "the loosest slots around!" This means that by law the Casino has to pay out a certain percentage of their take to their patrons. If all the machines paid out at the same flat percentage then everyone has an equal chance of winning a jackpot or losing. So everyone could win at the same time (theoretically) or everyone could lose their ass at the same time. This would be bad for the Casino. So some machines have a higher pay out percentage and some are at the base. So when you are pumping in dollar after dollar and someone next to you sits down, pops in their first dollar and they win a jackpot and get all excited, the average player might think "my jackpot is just around the corner - better keep putting in these dollars!"
It exists. I just don't say it that way when referencing this game, because unless I can link to a quote from a Blue, people tend to get all wonky on these forums when you state a theory as a fact.
So after that analysis - do you Magier556 have any thoughts about what I've said that might be a little more diplomatic than your first post?
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
You u had bad luck, so what, ur not the only one, do u miss being an creditcard warrior?
While theoretically everyone can win or lose at the same time, the chance of that happening is so slim that there is no need to worry about it. I mean, there's a chance that all the atoms in your body spontaneously decay, and you die a horrible, horrible death. Similarly, casinos do not worry about everyone starts winning at the same time, except if it is because they accidentally set the house edge to be negative. If all they want it someone to be lucky, and other to be unlucky, a normal RNG will produce exactly what they want. The only thing they need to take care of is the win rate, and the law of truly large number will do the rest.
If you claim there are games that seeds a character's luck, please tell me what those games are, with proof.
http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png
I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
This weekend, I found my first Tal's piece (orb), Thunderfury, and Moonlight Ward. Three little drops within a couple of hours turned my motivation as well as my wizard from "kinda ok-ish" into "totally OP".
Why does this happen? Because it's random. Random means random, random does not mean "equally distributed". What we expect when we throw a dice 6 times is a somewhat random distribution of six different numbers, like 3,5,1,6,2,4. We don't expect 1,2,3,4,5,6 and neither do we expect 1,1,1,1,1,1. All these three distributions, however, have the exact same probability to appear (if you take into account the exact order of the sequence). If you translate this to drop rates it means that drops won't always appear in perfect sequences of one upgrade per day. There might be a huge upgrade tomorrow and nothing for days; there might be daily upgrades, or for some super unlucky persons no upgrade ever.
And this is what makes playing so worthwhile: after you got an item you have the same chance on the next mob to find an item again. If loot wasn't random but equally distributed to one legendary per hour, after every drop you'd know that for 59 minutes you won't see a beam. How lame would that be...
As stated by Blizzard, this mechanic doesn't even start to kick in for SEVERAL hours, we're talking 8+, of 'in-combat' playing time, and most accounts will never benefit from this. If that ridiculously long bad luck streak continues, it very slowly raises the drop chance and then resets when you get one.
It's absolutely not on a 1-hour timer, that was just a frame of reference back when 2.01 dropped as to how long between legendaries they were trying to make the drop rate, and is now largely irrelevant with the new drop rate buffs.
I have a cindercoat. It only has 15% fire damage but I love being a fire barb. To actually upgrade that thing I need another three socket version with at least 480 strength, 470 vit(the reroll), and better than the fire skill reduction of 26% percent. It is a great chest. I like it but now the question is how many drops will I need to get one with 20% fire damage. If that should maybe take 1000 drops but you only average say 1 an hour even rolling torment 3/4 at a good pace I am already caped out and should just start playing another game. I never did any of the superfast farming exploits(to me chest runs on a torment level you cant kill the mobs is an exploit) or running a super low difficulty to murder everything in a sneeze.