I like the way it is now as well. But if they were to enable trading amongst clan members instead of party members I think that would be a change for the better. Imo
no, it would not be any different from "universal" trading. just because you can't see this does not mean it's not that way. just think about what you said for a minute.
I'm not sure that's true. Clans already have limits on the number of players in it and each player can only be in a single clan at a time, which limits the scope of people a player can trade with. If you also consider that there is already a date/time stamp on items when they are found (used for the current party trading) and a date/time stamp for joining a clan, it'd be relatively easy to make it so that you had to be in the clan when the item was found to be eligible to trade for it. With just those restrictions, it's far different from "universal" trading.
Not saying it would be better or worse than the current system, just that it'd indeed be different than allowing universal trading.
what i said was: players will just join the "item selling" clans. the limit on clans will never stop item selling.
It's not about stopping it really. It's about compromising it so that it limits it. "item selling" clans would still be limited by the clan limit, so you don't have access to every player in the game to buy/sell from. Which means if someone is trying to buy an item, someone in the clan has to find it, be willing to sell it, and then they have to figure out how they are going to do that arrangement. It won't stop it, but it'll be convoluted. Limiting the scope to a single clan will reduce the ability to sell and buy (for instance no one in my clan has ever found a wand of Woh (despite a lot of wizard play), so no one in my current clan could buy or sell one.
You are correct that opening trading up to clans reintroduces a problem they solved with BOA, but the magnitude of the problem would be different between clan trading and universal trading. The other issue I see with clan trade is that Blizzard could "tune" the drops again to compensate. That was my principle problem with the Auction House. I didn't mind it's existence, I minded that the drop rates were so bad that it became the only way to get items without a lot of time and luck on hand. It'd be a gamble to see if Blizzard was willing to allow clan trading without destroying the drop rates a ton.
Ultimately, it's a risk vs reward issue. Is the risk of "item selling clans" worth allowing those who just want to trade with friends who weren't on when they found an item? For me, that answer is yes, but I admittedly care very little about the competitive aspect of the game.
I remember pro-BoA people were saying how it would increase the longevity of the game.
Honestly, I noticed the same drop-off in friends playing between RoS and D3V. Why? Simply put the item hunt isn't significantly better than it was in D3V. Instead of people "shortcutting" it via the AH, they "shortcutted" it with RiF + Kadala and loot-sharing games. Either that or they simply burnt out completely on bounty-farming or got ridiculously tired of rifts being the only viable farming place.
Josh gave a hard sell on BoA that it would allow them to improve aspects of the game, and we all understood the potential.... but he has really fallen short on achieving that potential, particularly with legendaries... which are going to require yet another pass because so many of them still suck. Sometimes I get this gut feeling that Josh has never played an ARPG before.
I'm so burnt out on bounties is ridiculous, over 3,000 caches farmed and it's just silly and boring to farm...
I remember pro-BoA people were saying how it would increase the longevity of the game.
And, in my opinion, it absolutely did. It took me ages to get my first Tal piece, to get the set (still haven't seen the belt), complete my Vyr's set, and so on. All those pieces, by the time I got them, would've been on the AH "almost for free". But I found them - myself! Much better feeling, and the hunt for those items kept me going. Among other RoS features of course.
I've played way more in 2.0.1+RoS now already than I've played in all of D3V. And it's not just me. On a break right now - but more because of the World Cup and work than anything else, to be honest. I've always taken breaks, in D1, D2, and other similar games. And 2.1 looks great - I definitely think that RoS has a better longevity than D3V, and BoA is a huge reason for that.
I disagree with your Josh rant. Towards the end of your post, you sound very similar to one of the bitter guys from the official forums. Yes, Josh might not have as much ARPG background as we wished the D3 Lead Director would have, but stating that he has never played an ARPG before makes it sound like RoS is a total failure in your eyes, and that's just ridiculous.
Yes, many legendaries are underwhelming and need another pass but that's exactly what Blizzard said: there wasn't enough time to do all of them (AND create act 5 AND design a new class AND overhaul the entire game AND create rifts and so on). Do you remember some of the RoS beta datamining posts? There were lists of up to 300 legendary affixes. I'm sure you're one of the last persons in this forum I need to tell how Blizzard works: if *we* see 100 legendary affixes in the game, rest assured that the number of affixes they tested internally was much much higher. We'll see more of them - in 2.1, but also later patches.
The one complaint where I agree with you is "Kadala+RiF". RiF, the 100% increased legendary drop rate, the two Kadala buffs (that came totally out of nowhere and for no reason) kind of killed the game for some people. It took me 300 hours to get about ~2 sets on my wizards (yeah, I was unlucky), even more to get my first RoRG, never a Wand of Woh. Still, I think that was FINE. That is longevity. However, using RiF, Kadala, and some lootsharing I got every other class to T6 in under 30 hours playtime. Really didn't like that. That's just wrong!
But anyways, that's an exception. I know there are people who, despite RiF+Kadala+hundreds hours of playtime, are still far away from T6. Is Reaper of Souls a perfect, finished game in its current state? Nope. But it damn sure is the best Diablo game so far (yes, I think it's already better than D2 ever was, at least for me). And from what I've seen on PTR, set aside the missing balancing, it's only becoming more exciting. So... whatever you want to imply with your rant about Josh - I think he is taking the great in a game direction, and ranting about him is just as stupid as ranting about Jay. Without those two guys, D3 would be a freaking boring MMORPG and I wouldn't even dare to touch it. Jay laid the great foundation with the best ARPG combat experience that can currently be found in the genre, and Josh had the guts to make some tough calls that turned D3 upside down and undoubtedly in a better direction. And, to finally take this back to the thread's point - BoA was his most gutsy decision and will only help to keep the game in becoming even better.
The problem is either the solution of buying items or finding items yourself will appeal to different people, differently. Myself.. I got burnt out (again) on D3. I'm not at all interested in playing ANOTHER 100+ paragon levels, just in hopes I might get another piece or two. So that I can do what, exactly? Farm faster?
Now... if there were... I dunno... PVP Arenas... maybe the loot would be more interesting to me. Which is probably why I stopped playing D3 for a bit, stopped playing DOTA2, and started playing LoL. Now.. if only I could just pick up another 30 or 40 thousand IP, and another ~15 levels without dealing with super nubs and bots.. that'd be pretty nifty. =)
Why hasn't there been a huge post about trading? I think this game should have a trading system. The only thing you can do with items you found solo are junk or save them. I already have 5 character stash's full with gear I don't need but it's too good to salvage...Are we getting trading?
I hope not. Having the game revert back into people sitting in a chat room spamming all day rather then playing is not exactly a good thing.
I remember pro-BoA people were saying how it would increase the longevity of the game.
And, in my opinion, it absolutely did. It took me ages to get my first Tal piece, to get the set (still haven't seen the belt), complete my Vyr's set, and so on. All those pieces, by the time I got them, would've been on the AH "almost for free". But I found them - myself! Much better feeling, and the hunt for those items kept me going. Among other RoS features of course.
I've played way more in 2.0.1+RoS now already than I've played in all of D3V. And it's not just me. On a break right now - but more because of the World Cup and work than anything else, to be honest. I've always taken breaks, in D1, D2, and other similar games. And 2.1 looks great - I definitely think that RoS has a better longevity than D3V, and BoA is a huge reason for that.
I disagree with your Josh rant. Towards the end of your post, you sound very similar to one of the bitter guys from the official forums. Yes, Josh might not have as much ARPG background as we wished the D3 Lead Director would have, but stating that he has never played an ARPG before makes it sound like RoS is a total failure in your eyes, and that's just ridiculous.
Yes, many legendaries are underwhelming and need another pass but that's exactly what Blizzard said: there wasn't enough time to do all of them (AND create act 5 AND design a new class AND overhaul the entire game AND create rifts and so on). Do you remember some of the RoS beta datamining posts? There were lists of up to 300 legendary affixes. I'm sure you're one of the last persons in this forum I need to tell how Blizzard works: if *we* see 100 legendary affixes in the game, rest assured that the number of affixes they tested internally was much much higher. We'll see more of them - in 2.1, but also later patches.
The one complaint where I agree with you is "Kadala+RiF". RiF, the 100% increased legendary drop rate, the two Kadala buffs (that came totally out of nowhere and for no reason) kind of killed the game for some people. It took me 300 hours to get about ~2 sets on my wizards (yeah, I was unlucky), even more to get my first RoRG, never a Wand of Woh. Still, I think that was FINE. That is longevity. However, using RiF, Kadala, and some lootsharing I got every other class to T6 in under 30 hours playtime. Really didn't like that. That's just wrong!
But anyways, that's an exception. I know there are people who, despite RiF+Kadala+hundreds hours of playtime, are still far away from T6. Is Reaper of Souls a perfect, finished game in its current state? Nope. But it damn sure is the best Diablo game so far (yes, I think it's already better than D2 ever was, at least for me). And from what I've seen on PTR, set aside the missing balancing, it's only becoming more exciting. So... whatever you want to imply with your rant about Josh - I think he is taking the great in a game direction, and ranting about him is just as stupid as ranting about Jay. Without those two guys, D3 would be a freaking boring MMORPG and I wouldn't even dare to touch it. Jay laid the great foundation with the best ARPG combat experience that can currently be found in the genre, and Josh had the guts to make some tough calls that turned D3 upside down and undoubtedly in a better direction. And, to finally take this back to the thread's point - BoA was his most gutsy decision and will only help to keep the game in becoming even better.
Is it ok to agree with both you and shaggy? I can understand basically any and all of the tidbits laced all throughout both posts...
I think if any two of us printed our forum posts out, stuffed them in our back pockets, and bumped into each-other in real life we could whip those sheets out and have a discussion about them and it would be nothing but smiles and nods, because there would be a million times more checks and balances both in the message we hope to deliver in person and the message we hope to receive.
and I can say this about any staff member down in California. I've probably called each one of them a complete idiot several hundred times by now....but the fact remains...it does not mean that my values differ so strongly from theirs.
It's all just one big puddle of misinterpretation...
so basically when some one rants about the developers or rants that all MMORPGS are a boring influence, its really on me to figure out why the people who are writing that are writing it. When I don't figure that out. I've made a mistake...and I've made plenty. And so have lots of other people about my rants...
Even through my several hundred posts of hatred on official I can rant and rave about the wonders of Diablo 3. I can rant and rave about the beautiful music, the incredible character design as far as backstory and aesthetics.....
id say write it. everyone just write it all. if its nice or mean, hopefully the developers can draw inspiration from it.
The weapons in this game fucking suck. they do. they need work. and have needed work for a few years now clearly.
but that only means I want them to be amazing and interesting. it be a mis-step to think "oh he's just one of those assholes who can't be pleased...."
same goes with auction house, free trade, runes, character-builds...music, graphics, basically anything...if someone says "they fucking hate it" , they want it to be amazing.
I would put forward that the complete absence or the full inclusion of anything in this game holds it back....as general as that seems that's about as specific as a guiding philosophy can get....
too much cute? that's not good.
100% free trade? unfortunate.
Global instant AH. darn...
100% BoA legendary? there must be better options.
delete the entire AH? there must be better options...
anyways hopefully this comes off how it sounds in my head....
It's funny because I'm dealing with a company right now that moves glacially. Meaning, unlike some companies that just make HUGE sweeping changes from one end of the spectrum to the other, they are making changes so finite that you have to really pay attention to even know there is a change.
It's already been said probably 50K times. The in game trade is insulting. It is highly exploitable and has been for over TEN years. I don't now whether they are too lazy or too uncaring or too incompetent to fix that. I'd like to think they aren't too incompetent.
The AH was supposed to "fix" that; however there is (still) an official trade forum on the official forums.. even though the *only* things you can trade are blue and yellow items that have not been enchanted or crafted at the blacksmith. The AH itself was bugged, exploited, and just a source of problems ... many of which were never addressed. So, they just threw in the towel, didn't do much with itemization, end game, or even include promised/advertised features (pvp areanas..), and instead just decided to remove the auction house. And then make all noteworthy gear bound to your account ... even though they still have trade forums and in game trade, even though they're all worthless pretty much.
The people who think the AH was the source of all evils are ridiculous.
The people who think removing the AH was the only way to fix loot are out of their minds.
Doing NOTHING in between the two solutions is also just totally absurd, as I see it.
Now.. don't get me wrong. I actually don't miss the auction house. I'm just saying the situation is completely stupid.
Having said that, if I were to get back into D3 ... which probably won't happen in the immediate future ... I might start to miss the auction house just because the only good way to farm sets and specific *powerful*, build-based legendaries, is through exploiting the shard system. And, as I stated previously, what's really the point of that? To farm faster?
To make a YouTube video about it that might get 50K+ views and might, one day, put $40 or $50 into my bank account? I can wash cars with the time it'd take me to farm that loot and make more money. As for enjoyment of play, well...I went from something like paragon 108 to paragon 260 or 270 since Reaper of Souls. There's only so much farming of static maps with static encounters that I can do against mindless computer AI before I just don't care any more.
I would put forward that the complete absence or the full inclusion of anything in this game holds it back....as general as that seems that's about as specific as a guiding philosophy can get....
too much cute? that's not good.
100% free trade? unfortunate.
Global instant AH. darn...
100% BoA legendary? there must be better options.
delete the entire AH? there must be better options...
This is really exactly how I feel about the BoA/AH situation.
It sucks that the AH was *the* way to get items because of drop rates, etc.
It sucks just as much that the reaction to that is "FUCK IT 100% SELF-FOUND FOR EVERYONE, ENJOY IT OR FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING PEASANTS."
And it saddens me that a big developer like Blizzard can't think of some solution that better-serves the community. RoS has been a step forward, but it's simply not nearly as much as Josh talked it up to be. I don't miss the AH, but I'm not lying when I say that my friends have quit RoS just as fast as they quit D3V.... perhaps slightly faster. None of them have ever said "I miss the AH" because only a very small segment of the players do actually miss the AH. But, even when playing co-op, your character feels like some single-player experiment. There is very little lateral movement.
There is no "I'd like to farm Baal today instead of Pindleskin." The amount of choices you can make as to how you enjoy your in-game time are at an all-time low because Josh's worst design decision is that, basically, everyone should be playing exactly the same way as everyone else. Why he thought that was a beneficial decision is simply beyond me.
@bagstone
I have a response for you, but I'm on the way out the door to work!
You will...I've found like...every piece possible for my wizard on than a wand of woh/ i have 4-5 sets of different gear for my wizard to play with. I like not allow trading now that they tuned up the drop rates.
The one complaint where I agree with you is "Kadala+RiF". RiF, the 100% increased legendary drop rate, the two Kadala buffs (that came totally out of nowhere and for no reason) kind of killed the game for some people. It took me 300 hours to get about ~2 sets on my wizards (yeah, I was unlucky), even more to get my first RoRG, never a Wand of Woh. Still, I think that was FINE. That is longevity. However, using RiF, Kadala, and some lootsharing I got every other class to T6 in under 30 hours playtime. Really didn't like that. That's just wrong!
I totally agree that it seems that the legendary drop rates both in rifts/bounties/campaign and from Miss Kadala, almost seemed like it became far too fast and easy to gear up your character for T6 gameplay. I initially had similar negative feelings for this, but then I had a thought: There are a lot of different and interesting builds to try that require very specific pieces of gear. The level 70 gear will become obsolete by the time the next expansion rolls around in a little over a year, so it does kind of make sense to alter the drop rates so that even casual players can have a good chance of getting all this interesting gear and having the fun of trying it out. If you break the longevity of the game into year or two year blocks, it makes a little bit more sense. Then it starts over when the next expansion hits.
I'm still searching for a Thunderfury to give the melee Demon Hunter build a try.
I'm much happier w/o the AH and the trading. Now we actually see usable drops, instead of having to buy them on the AH, and actual legendary and set drops more than once in a blue moon.
I disagree with your Josh rant. Towards the end of your post, you sound very similar to one of the bitter guys from the official forums. Yes, Josh might not have as much ARPG background as we wished the D3 Lead Director would have, but stating that he has never played an ARPG before makes it sound like RoS is a total failure in your eyes, and that's just ridiculous.
It's just how I feel about the guy. I don't think he "gets" the genre. I don't really feel like I'm playing an ARPG at this point. I feel like I'm playing an action-adventure game with a hell theme. What I mean by that is that, to me, one of the biggest things for an ARPG is that players have choices in things to do. As someone pointed out in this thread, or another, there actually were a lot of different things to do in D2 depending on what you actually wanted to farm. (EDIT: It's one of the issues I had with PoE and maps. What the fuck is the point of the entire rest of the game? A dumb story to get in the way of the real fun? To me "endgame" in an ARPG should be systems set in place ... like bounties, ubers, paragon, etc. ... that enhance the existing content and make it more tolerable when repeated ad infinatum and NOT completely-separate systems that rather invalidate the rest of the content. For me bounties are, generally a great idea, whereas rifts being the "best place to farm" is a horrible idea.)
If you wanted to farm high runes you'd go to a different place than if you wanted to farm socketed gear to put them in. And, while I think specific boss farming (particularly any farming where you fire up a game for 90 seconds and create a new game) is generally bad, I am finding that I hate loading up a game just to do five rifts. Why is the endgame JUST rifts? Why isn't story mode remotely valid? Why doesn't adventure mode, aside from rifts/bounties, have any purpose? I mean they opened up the game so that all the acts were stitched together seamlessly (something I desperately thought the game needed) and then Josh buffs rifts so that the main meta-game is to spend as little time doing ANYTHING other than rifts as humanly possible.
As much as I wouldn't be interested in PvP, it's really sad that some very basic concerns (size of the brawling area, etc.) haven't been addressed yet. People do enjoy it and there's no doubt that NOT having it and NOT showing any intent to fix even the most simple aspects of it that people feel aren't working properly, actually hurts the longevity of the game.
And, honestly, I'm still not pleased at how many legendaries didn't have legendary properties. I had put much more faith in the team to know better than that, and they really left me down. I'd figured that given D3V and, moreso, the fact that Jay gave reworking legendaries a try and swung and missed, that they'd have been more detail-oriented on the subject. That they wouldn't have been content for half of the oranges that drop in RoS to be Skorns, Mempos, EFs, Angel Hair Braids, etc. It's almost like Josh has selective hearing. They want better legendaries.... check. What constitutes a bad legendary... NOT LISTENING.
I just don't get him. For me the RoS game isn't THAT much more playable than the vanilla game. Not because of BoA per se. But because the possibility that the game had with BoA was immense... and it just didn't live up to that. The game never should have went live with drop rates that were so low. BoA was supposed to, according to Josh, allow them to jack up drop rates so that we felt like we were finding things. I remember him saying 6 legendaries in a single act clear on Campaign Mode. We weren't remotely close to that in 2.0. Even after the anniversary buff becoming permanent we're arguably not close to that in Campaign Mode. Why did he make such a big deal about being able to increase drop rates being a benefit of BoA... and then go live with junky drop rates?
I thought BoA was supposed to allow them the freedom to go wild and get crazy with ideas. I haven't really seen that translate into anything revolutionary in RoS. If I saw him leading a team that really was thinking outside of the box and presenting me with those groundbreaking things that BoA was allegedly going to allow them to do, that they absolutely couldn't do with trading, then I'd probably STFU on the subject. But it really isn't there.
EDIT
The reality of the situation for me is that I agreed with him that BoA probably would let them do awesome things that they *may* not have been able to do without it. And I don't miss the AH. But in order for me to feel that BoA is justified, I want to see them go nuts. I want them to show me that BoA *is* the right choice by showing me all these mind-blowing ideas. I simply don't see ANYTHING mind-blowing about RoS. And that really rubs me the wrong way.
OK one thing confusing me here is the people who want trading but claim kadala/rif ruined the game. You claim kadala/RIF allows you to gear to quickly, what do you assume trading will do??? Did you play D2? You could just hop free stuff games all day and get gear and the only thing worth a damn was a few select items with perfect rolls.
At least kadalaRIF requires you to farm fragments, joining a free stuff game didn't even require that. And anyways RIF is dead with next patch.
I detested the auction house, for me it WAS the only place I ever got "good" gear. I've got decent stuff now, not end game wow stuff but I like it and have fun.
However, as I've said elsewhere, I can't do much to help my wife gear up when she actually gets to play. And sure it's a case of less time played, less good stuff, but with all the gear I've amassed, its untouchable by her. Just sucks.
I detested the auction house, for me it WAS the only place I ever got "good" gear. I've got decent stuff now, not end game wow stuff but I like it and have fun.
However, as I've said elsewhere, I can't do much to help my wife gear up when she actually gets to play. And sure it's a case of less time played, less good stuff, but with all the gear I've amassed, its untouchable by her. Just sucks.
If you're anything like me, you have sunk way too much time into the game getting what you're not looking for, me being a Wizard, some stuff doesn't come easy.....at all. I just found my third Thunderfury and still no Serpents Sparker or Wand of Woh and I have 240 hours on my Wizard. After this point, I really would like someway to grasp those items I've been seeking endless hours for.
I disagree with your Josh rant. Towards the end of your post, you sound very similar to one of the bitter guys from the official forums. Yes, Josh might not have as much ARPG background as we wished the D3 Lead Director would have, but stating that he has never played an ARPG before makes it sound like RoS is a total failure in your eyes, and that's just ridiculous.
It's just how I feel about the guy. I don't think he "gets" the genre. I don't really feel like I'm playing an ARPG at this point. I feel like I'm playing an action-adventure game with a hell theme. What I mean by that is that, to me, one of the biggest things for an ARPG is that players have choices in things to do. As someone pointed out in this thread, or another, there actually were a lot of different things to do in D2 depending on what you actually wanted to farm. (EDIT: It's one of the issues I had with PoE and maps. What the fuck is the point of the entire rest of the game? A dumb story to get in the way of the real fun? To me "endgame" in an ARPG should be systems set in place ... like bounties, ubers, paragon, etc. ... that enhance the existing content and make it more tolerable when repeated ad infinatum and NOT completely-separate systems that rather invalidate the rest of the content. For me bounties are, generally a great idea, whereas rifts being the "best place to farm" is a horrible idea.)
If you wanted to farm high runes you'd go to a different place than if you wanted to farm socketed gear to put them in. And, while I think specific boss farming (particularly any farming where you fire up a game for 90 seconds and create a new game) is generally bad, I am finding that I hate loading up a game just to do five rifts. Why is the endgame JUST rifts? Why isn't story mode remotely valid? Why doesn't adventure mode, aside from rifts/bounties, have any purpose? I mean they opened up the game so that all the acts were stitched together seamlessly (something I desperately thought the game needed) and then Josh buffs rifts so that the main meta-game is to spend as little time doing ANYTHING other than rifts as humanly possible.
As much as I wouldn't be interested in PvP, it's really sad that some very basic concerns (size of the brawling area, etc.) haven't been addressed yet. People do enjoy it and there's no doubt that NOT having it and NOT showing any intent to fix even the most simple aspects of it that people feel aren't working properly, actually hurts the longevity of the game.
And, honestly, I'm still not pleased at how many legendaries didn't have legendary properties. I had put much more faith in the team to know better than that, and they really left me down. I'd figured that given D3V and, moreso, the fact that Jay gave reworking legendaries a try and swung and missed, that they'd have been more detail-oriented on the subject. That they wouldn't have been content for half of the oranges that drop in RoS to be Skorns, Mempos, EFs, Angel Hair Braids, etc. It's almost like Josh has selective hearing. They want better legendaries.... check. What constitutes a bad legendary... NOT LISTENING.
I just don't get him. For me the RoS game isn't THAT much more playable than the vanilla game. Not because of BoA per se. But because the possibility that the game had with BoA was immense... and it just didn't live up to that. The game never should have went live with drop rates that were so low. BoA was supposed to, according to Josh, allow them to jack up drop rates so that we felt like we were finding things. I remember him saying 6 legendaries in a single act clear on Campaign Mode. We weren't remotely close to that in 2.0. Even after the anniversary buff becoming permanent we're arguably not close to that in Campaign Mode. Why did he make such a big deal about being able to increase drop rates being a benefit of BoA... and then go live with junky drop rates?
I thought BoA was supposed to allow them the freedom to go wild and get crazy with ideas. I haven't really seen that translate into anything revolutionary in RoS. If I saw him leading a team that really was thinking outside of the box and presenting me with those groundbreaking things that BoA was allegedly going to allow them to do, that they absolutely couldn't do with trading, then I'd probably STFU on the subject. But it really isn't there.
EDIT
The reality of the situation for me is that I agreed with him that BoA probably would let them do awesome things that they *may* not have been able to do without it. And I don't miss the AH. But in order for me to feel that BoA is justified, I want to see them go nuts. I want them to show me that BoA *is* the right choice by showing me all these mind-blowing ideas. I simply don't see ANYTHING mind-blowing about RoS. And that really rubs me the wrong way.
"BoA was supposed to, according to Josh, allow them to jack up drop rates so that we felt like we were finding things. I remember him saying 6 legendaries in a single act clear on Campaign Mode. We weren't remotely close to that in 2.0. Even after the anniversary buff becoming permanent we're arguably not close to that in Campaign Mode. Why did he make such a big deal about being able to increase drop rates being a benefit of BoA... and then go live with junky drop rates?"
2 TFs, 3 sets of Tal Rasha, 3 sets of Vyr, 4 sets firebird, 5 SoJ, 2 Witching Hours, 3 Harringtons many more items we see people wishing they had. The only item that eludes me is the Wand of Woh. I would be more than happy to swap an entire well rolled Tal, Vyr and Firebird set for a Wand of Woh but it is not possible.
Yes, I know the Wand of Woh is not that great but I'd still like to try it. It will certainly give me much more enjoyment than stashing multiple sets trying to avoid the salvager and continuing to grind in search of something which may never drop.
Trading will come back 99% with patch 3.0, but without the auction house. Maybe we get trading servers..
That would be terrible for the BoA lovers (who actually control this site.)
Everybody knows if they made a trading server and a non trading-BoA server, there would be a ridiculously low amount of the playerbase in the BoA one. I'm guessing a 10% , tops.
Of course, it would include all the Non trading defenders like Bagstone, Bandyto, Bleu and such who are the most outspoken here. That is, until they created a char with another name and they went to the trading server cheating on their Oh so beloved Game that they managed to impose upon the rest of us.
People that like trading are usually frowned upon by the Holy inquisition on this forum, sadly. And given all kind of insults and jibes.The photo a few posts above clearly shows the way these people usually behave. Not all of them, but most of the BoA lovers act like that. High-school pack bullying anyone who has a different opinion.
Fact is, according to numbers, playerbase has been vastly reduced from vanilla D3 to RoS. They made a huge majority of the playerbase quit their game, and no matter how this BoA lovers wanna hide the facts, or say they love the game now, from a market point of view it is a disastrous result.
I honestly think Blizzard investors are not really happy with what JM did to the game. At all. And they actually are the only ones whose opinion matters.
Trading will come back 99% with patch 3.0, but without the auction house. Maybe we get trading servers..
That would be terrible for the BoA lovers (who actually control this site.)
Everybody knows if they made a trading server and a non trading-BoA server, there would be a ridiculously low amount of the playerbase in the BoA one. I'm guessing a 10% , tops.
Of course, it would include all the Non trading defenders like Bagstone, Bandyto, Bleu and such who are the most outspoken here. That is, until they created a char with another name and they went to the trading server cheating on their Oh so beloved Game that they managed to impose upon the rest of us.
People that like trading are usually frowned upon by the Holy inquisition on this forum, sadly. And given all kind of insults and jibes.The photo a few posts above clearly shows the way these people usually behave. Not all of them, but most of the BoA lovers act like that. High-school pack bullying anyone who has a different opinion.
Fact is, according to numbers, playerbase has been vastly reduced from vanilla D3 to RoS. They made a huge majority of the playerbase quit their game, and no matter how this BoA lovers wanna hide the facts, or say they love the game now, from a market point of view it is a disastrous result.
I honestly think Blizzard investors are not really happy with what JM did to the game. At all. And they actually are the only ones whose opinion matters.
Please don't spread bullshit around. We had enough of that during vanilla days.
There's no such thing as BoA-lovers "controlling" the site. I have been here since forever and personally said a dozen+ times about how I miss the AH and how I feel like they took the easy way out with trading, and was never "bullied" for it. Been around long enough to see a couple other hundred people speaking in favor of it as well. It's not like people who speak in favor of the AH get shut down or censored, so again, quit spreading fallacies and bullshit around
Also, while my own personal point of view is like that, I am positive there are more people in favor of BoA than against it these days, specially after what most people perceive as an extremely bad experience with AH. I might not agree with them, but I'll defend to death their right of stating what they want for the game.
If some people here behave the way you described, it's more likely because of your own attitude and way of saying things than because of your view on specific game features -_-
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Not saying it would be better or worse than the current system, just that it'd indeed be different than allowing universal trading.
You are correct that opening trading up to clans reintroduces a problem they solved with BOA, but the magnitude of the problem would be different between clan trading and universal trading. The other issue I see with clan trade is that Blizzard could "tune" the drops again to compensate. That was my principle problem with the Auction House. I didn't mind it's existence, I minded that the drop rates were so bad that it became the only way to get items without a lot of time and luck on hand. It'd be a gamble to see if Blizzard was willing to allow clan trading without destroying the drop rates a ton.
Ultimately, it's a risk vs reward issue. Is the risk of "item selling clans" worth allowing those who just want to trade with friends who weren't on when they found an item? For me, that answer is yes, but I admittedly care very little about the competitive aspect of the game.
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ModeratorI've played way more in 2.0.1+RoS now already than I've played in all of D3V. And it's not just me. On a break right now - but more because of the World Cup and work than anything else, to be honest. I've always taken breaks, in D1, D2, and other similar games. And 2.1 looks great - I definitely think that RoS has a better longevity than D3V, and BoA is a huge reason for that.
I disagree with your Josh rant. Towards the end of your post, you sound very similar to one of the bitter guys from the official forums. Yes, Josh might not have as much ARPG background as we wished the D3 Lead Director would have, but stating that he has never played an ARPG before makes it sound like RoS is a total failure in your eyes, and that's just ridiculous.
Yes, many legendaries are underwhelming and need another pass but that's exactly what Blizzard said: there wasn't enough time to do all of them (AND create act 5 AND design a new class AND overhaul the entire game AND create rifts and so on). Do you remember some of the RoS beta datamining posts? There were lists of up to 300 legendary affixes. I'm sure you're one of the last persons in this forum I need to tell how Blizzard works: if *we* see 100 legendary affixes in the game, rest assured that the number of affixes they tested internally was much much higher. We'll see more of them - in 2.1, but also later patches.
The one complaint where I agree with you is "Kadala+RiF". RiF, the 100% increased legendary drop rate, the two Kadala buffs (that came totally out of nowhere and for no reason) kind of killed the game for some people. It took me 300 hours to get about ~2 sets on my wizards (yeah, I was unlucky), even more to get my first RoRG, never a Wand of Woh. Still, I think that was FINE. That is longevity. However, using RiF, Kadala, and some lootsharing I got every other class to T6 in under 30 hours playtime. Really didn't like that. That's just wrong!
But anyways, that's an exception. I know there are people who, despite RiF+Kadala+hundreds hours of playtime, are still far away from T6. Is Reaper of Souls a perfect, finished game in its current state? Nope. But it damn sure is the best Diablo game so far (yes, I think it's already better than D2 ever was, at least for me). And from what I've seen on PTR, set aside the missing balancing, it's only becoming more exciting. So... whatever you want to imply with your rant about Josh - I think he is taking the great in a game direction, and ranting about him is just as stupid as ranting about Jay. Without those two guys, D3 would be a freaking boring MMORPG and I wouldn't even dare to touch it. Jay laid the great foundation with the best ARPG combat experience that can currently be found in the genre, and Josh had the guts to make some tough calls that turned D3 upside down and undoubtedly in a better direction. And, to finally take this back to the thread's point - BoA was his most gutsy decision and will only help to keep the game in becoming even better.
Now... if there were... I dunno... PVP Arenas... maybe the loot would be more interesting to me. Which is probably why I stopped playing D3 for a bit, stopped playing DOTA2, and started playing LoL. Now.. if only I could just pick up another 30 or 40 thousand IP, and another ~15 levels without dealing with super nubs and bots.. that'd be pretty nifty. =)
Is it ok to agree with both you and shaggy? I can understand basically any and all of the tidbits laced all throughout both posts...
I think if any two of us printed our forum posts out, stuffed them in our back pockets, and bumped into each-other in real life we could whip those sheets out and have a discussion about them and it would be nothing but smiles and nods, because there would be a million times more checks and balances both in the message we hope to deliver in person and the message we hope to receive.
and I can say this about any staff member down in California. I've probably called each one of them a complete idiot several hundred times by now....but the fact remains...it does not mean that my values differ so strongly from theirs.
It's all just one big puddle of misinterpretation...
so basically when some one rants about the developers or rants that all MMORPGS are a boring influence, its really on me to figure out why the people who are writing that are writing it. When I don't figure that out. I've made a mistake...and I've made plenty. And so have lots of other people about my rants...
Even through my several hundred posts of hatred on official I can rant and rave about the wonders of Diablo 3. I can rant and rave about the beautiful music, the incredible character design as far as backstory and aesthetics.....
id say write it. everyone just write it all. if its nice or mean, hopefully the developers can draw inspiration from it.
The weapons in this game fucking suck. they do. they need work. and have needed work for a few years now clearly.
but that only means I want them to be amazing and interesting. it be a mis-step to think "oh he's just one of those assholes who can't be pleased...."
same goes with auction house, free trade, runes, character-builds...music, graphics, basically anything...if someone says "they fucking hate it" , they want it to be amazing.
I would put forward that the complete absence or the full inclusion of anything in this game holds it back....as general as that seems that's about as specific as a guiding philosophy can get....
too much cute? that's not good.
100% free trade? unfortunate.
Global instant AH. darn...
100% BoA legendary? there must be better options.
delete the entire AH? there must be better options...
anyways hopefully this comes off how it sounds in my head....
It's already been said probably 50K times. The in game trade is insulting. It is highly exploitable and has been for over TEN years. I don't now whether they are too lazy or too uncaring or too incompetent to fix that. I'd like to think they aren't too incompetent.
The AH was supposed to "fix" that; however there is (still) an official trade forum on the official forums.. even though the *only* things you can trade are blue and yellow items that have not been enchanted or crafted at the blacksmith. The AH itself was bugged, exploited, and just a source of problems ... many of which were never addressed. So, they just threw in the towel, didn't do much with itemization, end game, or even include promised/advertised features (pvp areanas..), and instead just decided to remove the auction house. And then make all noteworthy gear bound to your account ... even though they still have trade forums and in game trade, even though they're all worthless pretty much.
The people who think the AH was the source of all evils are ridiculous.
The people who think removing the AH was the only way to fix loot are out of their minds.
Doing NOTHING in between the two solutions is also just totally absurd, as I see it.
Now.. don't get me wrong. I actually don't miss the auction house. I'm just saying the situation is completely stupid.
Having said that, if I were to get back into D3 ... which probably won't happen in the immediate future ... I might start to miss the auction house just because the only good way to farm sets and specific *powerful*, build-based legendaries, is through exploiting the shard system. And, as I stated previously, what's really the point of that? To farm faster?
To make a YouTube video about it that might get 50K+ views and might, one day, put $40 or $50 into my bank account? I can wash cars with the time it'd take me to farm that loot and make more money. As for enjoyment of play, well...I went from something like paragon 108 to paragon 260 or 270 since Reaper of Souls. There's only so much farming of static maps with static encounters that I can do against mindless computer AI before I just don't care any more.
It sucks that the AH was *the* way to get items because of drop rates, etc.
It sucks just as much that the reaction to that is "FUCK IT 100% SELF-FOUND FOR EVERYONE, ENJOY IT OR FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING PEASANTS."
And it saddens me that a big developer like Blizzard can't think of some solution that better-serves the community. RoS has been a step forward, but it's simply not nearly as much as Josh talked it up to be. I don't miss the AH, but I'm not lying when I say that my friends have quit RoS just as fast as they quit D3V.... perhaps slightly faster. None of them have ever said "I miss the AH" because only a very small segment of the players do actually miss the AH. But, even when playing co-op, your character feels like some single-player experiment. There is very little lateral movement.
There is no "I'd like to farm Baal today instead of Pindleskin." The amount of choices you can make as to how you enjoy your in-game time are at an all-time low because Josh's worst design decision is that, basically, everyone should be playing exactly the same way as everyone else. Why he thought that was a beneficial decision is simply beyond me.
@bagstone
I have a response for you, but I'm on the way out the door to work!
I'm still searching for a Thunderfury to give the melee Demon Hunter build a try.
If you wanted to farm high runes you'd go to a different place than if you wanted to farm socketed gear to put them in. And, while I think specific boss farming (particularly any farming where you fire up a game for 90 seconds and create a new game) is generally bad, I am finding that I hate loading up a game just to do five rifts. Why is the endgame JUST rifts? Why isn't story mode remotely valid? Why doesn't adventure mode, aside from rifts/bounties, have any purpose? I mean they opened up the game so that all the acts were stitched together seamlessly (something I desperately thought the game needed) and then Josh buffs rifts so that the main meta-game is to spend as little time doing ANYTHING other than rifts as humanly possible.
As much as I wouldn't be interested in PvP, it's really sad that some very basic concerns (size of the brawling area, etc.) haven't been addressed yet. People do enjoy it and there's no doubt that NOT having it and NOT showing any intent to fix even the most simple aspects of it that people feel aren't working properly, actually hurts the longevity of the game.
And, honestly, I'm still not pleased at how many legendaries didn't have legendary properties. I had put much more faith in the team to know better than that, and they really left me down. I'd figured that given D3V and, moreso, the fact that Jay gave reworking legendaries a try and swung and missed, that they'd have been more detail-oriented on the subject. That they wouldn't have been content for half of the oranges that drop in RoS to be Skorns, Mempos, EFs, Angel Hair Braids, etc. It's almost like Josh has selective hearing. They want better legendaries.... check. What constitutes a bad legendary... NOT LISTENING.
I just don't get him. For me the RoS game isn't THAT much more playable than the vanilla game. Not because of BoA per se. But because the possibility that the game had with BoA was immense... and it just didn't live up to that. The game never should have went live with drop rates that were so low. BoA was supposed to, according to Josh, allow them to jack up drop rates so that we felt like we were finding things. I remember him saying 6 legendaries in a single act clear on Campaign Mode. We weren't remotely close to that in 2.0. Even after the anniversary buff becoming permanent we're arguably not close to that in Campaign Mode. Why did he make such a big deal about being able to increase drop rates being a benefit of BoA... and then go live with junky drop rates?
I thought BoA was supposed to allow them the freedom to go wild and get crazy with ideas. I haven't really seen that translate into anything revolutionary in RoS. If I saw him leading a team that really was thinking outside of the box and presenting me with those groundbreaking things that BoA was allegedly going to allow them to do, that they absolutely couldn't do with trading, then I'd probably STFU on the subject. But it really isn't there.
EDIT
The reality of the situation for me is that I agreed with him that BoA probably would let them do awesome things that they *may* not have been able to do without it. And I don't miss the AH. But in order for me to feel that BoA is justified, I want to see them go nuts. I want them to show me that BoA *is* the right choice by showing me all these mind-blowing ideas. I simply don't see ANYTHING mind-blowing about RoS. And that really rubs me the wrong way.
At least kadalaRIF requires you to farm fragments, joining a free stuff game didn't even require that. And anyways RIF is dead with next patch.
However, as I've said elsewhere, I can't do much to help my wife gear up when she actually gets to play. And sure it's a case of less time played, less good stuff, but with all the gear I've amassed, its untouchable by her. Just sucks.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
Words of the wise.
2 TFs, 3 sets of Tal Rasha, 3 sets of Vyr, 4 sets firebird, 5 SoJ, 2 Witching Hours, 3 Harringtons many more items we see people wishing they had. The only item that eludes me is the Wand of Woh. I would be more than happy to swap an entire well rolled Tal, Vyr and Firebird set for a Wand of Woh but it is not possible.
Yes, I know the Wand of Woh is not that great but I'd still like to try it. It will certainly give me much more enjoyment than stashing multiple sets trying to avoid the salvager and continuing to grind in search of something which may never drop.
Everybody knows if they made a trading server and a non trading-BoA server, there would be a ridiculously low amount of the playerbase in the BoA one. I'm guessing a 10% , tops.
Of course, it would include all the Non trading defenders like Bagstone, Bandyto, Bleu and such who are the most outspoken here. That is, until they created a char with another name and they went to the trading server cheating on their Oh so beloved Game that they managed to impose upon the rest of us.
People that like trading are usually frowned upon by the Holy inquisition on this forum, sadly. And given all kind of insults and jibes.The photo a few posts above clearly shows the way these people usually behave. Not all of them, but most of the BoA lovers act like that. High-school pack bullying anyone who has a different opinion.
Fact is, according to numbers, playerbase has been vastly reduced from vanilla D3 to RoS. They made a huge majority of the playerbase quit their game, and no matter how this BoA lovers wanna hide the facts, or say they love the game now, from a market point of view it is a disastrous result.
I honestly think Blizzard investors are not really happy with what JM did to the game. At all. And they actually are the only ones whose opinion matters.
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Wise ElderPlease don't spread bullshit around. We had enough of that during vanilla days.
There's no such thing as BoA-lovers "controlling" the site. I have been here since forever and personally said a dozen+ times about how I miss the AH and how I feel like they took the easy way out with trading, and was never "bullied" for it. Been around long enough to see a couple other hundred people speaking in favor of it as well. It's not like people who speak in favor of the AH get shut down or censored, so again, quit spreading fallacies and bullshit around
Also, while my own personal point of view is like that, I am positive there are more people in favor of BoA than against it these days, specially after what most people perceive as an extremely bad experience with AH. I might not agree with them, but I'll defend to death their right of stating what they want for the game.
If some people here behave the way you described, it's more likely because of your own attitude and way of saying things than because of your view on specific game features -_-