It seems people on either side of " I dont find anything" or "RNG is RNG" both seems to lack perspective. The assumption that finding flaws into the general current loot system only meaning that you want instant gratification or even more ridiculous notion is that you dont want a challenge, is astonishing to me. When i come out and state these things someone usually attempts to tell me im just the new generation of gamers that dont want the 2 things mentioned above. Im past 30 years old, i have 2 kids, i still play video games with more limited times then when i was in college or a teenager, but to imply im some new gamer is funny to say the least.
Ill address the challenge part first. Diablo series was and is not challenging. Nothing in this game is hard. Random item drop is not a challenge to overcome, you can never get better at it. You or me gambling gives off random results, you cant be better at it then someone else in the form it takes in diablo 3. So when ever someone discuss this bringing up that a player does not wish to have a challenge does not apply here.
Instant gratification, granted im sure some people complaining about this fall into this category legitimately, it does not have to be relevant. There is ways to make long term gratification without hidding it behind walls so that anyone with less time can at least get something out of it. Diablo 3 fails at this concept pretty hard. I could only gather 7500(around that) blood shards since the game came out, i have gained 0 legendary from this. I read story of people farming 80k blood shards, its not something id have the time to do thats like years of gameplay for me.
See the difference with Diablo 2 is this, i never got many items, but i could trade for them eventually. I never asked of the game to give me the same stuff that someone that can farm 80k blood shard does. In diablo 2 you can play and not be the richest, yet still have exactly the items you wanted eventually trading what you had. I wasent rich in D2 and i didnt have all characters in the best gear, but eventually i had every item i wanted on my Amazon. D3 the same concept can not apply, its a huge drawback. I was assured in D2 that eventually i had to finish my rune words via trading. It took me a while, but the goal was straight foward and everytime i traded toward that goal or found something i could trade i knew i was getting closer.
D3 gameplay is nothing like this, i spend 5000 of my blood shards on shields alone, i never got a single legendary from it, let alone the one id want. I have nothing realistic to work toward and since my time is limited and i cannot assume that my time will ever reward with something i do want. There is nothing in the game for someone like me. I cant work toward anything.
If you are still in college and have the time to farm 80k blood shard, thats great for you guys, i used to have that time too. I just dont think i should be dismissed as not a fan anymore or some new generation of gamers, because i dont have this kind of time luxury. The pervious games are able to appeal to my limited time with goals i could work toward, D3 does not do this. D3 does many things better, but that part is fails at miserably. This game just drifted toward an end of the spectrum away from my demographic into a territory i cannot enjoy, i think i have a legitimate point of view. I beat games harder than diablo series over the years, my gratification and challenge are well in check. The difference, most of these games did not attempt to be my second job. If a video game wants to take so much of my time, it has to make it so i can achieve my goals eventually in some way that is guaranteed. I can wait 1 year before finally having the best crusader shield, if i knew that i was working toward it, but you cant work towards anything in this game.
I totally can understand your logic and frustrations. I'm sure there are many that will be in either camp of "RNG is RNG" or "stop whining."
However my suggestion is in neither of those categories.
You look at the game as something you play to work toward a goal. That is a fair request of a game to make - its one that I share with you. But I think the core of the Diablo series is not "lets play tonight to work toward a goal", rather a mindset of "lets play tonight to see what I get."
Blood shards, Rifts, chests, caches, boss farming - all of these mechanics are simple ways to entertain you while you wait for the item lottery to hit. Hopefully it hits with something useful for your character, so you can feel as though you are working toward a goal. But given the fact that almost all of the loot is random, you will never be able to fully work toward certain goals. Goals being things like "I want to complete a set" or "I want this specific shield and sword combo."
You just sign in, play and work toward the goal of "what am I going to get tonight?"
I'd love to see the Diablo series embrace more of what you are looking for - but that takes the game more toward the play style of an MMO and Blizzard already has one of those
But diablo 2 had that, i could work toward a goal. I mean it wasent perfect but i could do that. I dont think either are mutually exclusive. They werent before.
I played D2 as a teenager, now I am an adult with kids and I think Diablo is more generous than ever. Did you really play D2? Stuff never ever dropped in that game and if it did other people jacked it before you could pick it up. D3 is great, L-Drop about every other game in T2, perfect to pick up and play and not a giant time investment away from my family. As for blood shards, ivespent around1-2k and I have gotten 1-2 L-Drops, nothing useful but hey, free shot at loot.
What exactly do you want them to do, give you a legendary ever 500 blood shards, legendary every hour, diablo is a grind game, and is way less grindy these days than it used to be. Im sorry but for a guy in a similar position to you I cant really see what you are talking about.
I find it hard to believe that you've actually gambled 5000 (let alone 7500) blood shards without a single legendary. Since I started keeping track, I've poured 2800 blood shards into gloves and I have 10 legendary gloves as a result. I may be lucky, but I just don't think that you've spent almost double what I've spent and not even found 10% of what I've found.
EDIT
Based on the thread where they're gathering information about gambling drop rates, it'd seem that most items have a 1-2% chance at being a legendary. My 10 legendaries for 2800 blood shards represents roughly 1.75%, which would lend credence to my claim that your numbers are simply wrong since there is a pretty large data set which would corroborate my experience.
What exactly do you want them to do, give you a legendary ever 500 blood shards, legendary every hour, diablo is a grind game, and is way less grindy these days than it used to be. Im sorry but for a guy in a similar position to you I cant really see what you are talking about.
Im not trying to insult you, but i believe my problem went over your head a little. Polrayne post got what im talking about correctly. Like you said D2 dropped less loot, but i could do more with that loot via trading. Turned into actual guarantee loot that i wished for eventually, something D3 cannot do. It took me months before i finished Silence, but eventually i finished it. Everytime i was trading i knew i was getting closer and thats what makes a fun game to me. D3 is nothing like this, im never closer to any goal, im just drifitng about, to me it just makes it feel like a waste of my time more than ever before.
Even if im showered in legendary if 99.99999% of them i destroy instantly after i identify is not what i want for a loot game. If the carrot is good id work months over time for it. If the carrot is randomly a piece of crap i wouldnt go for it even if it meant more carrots. You could set yourself goals in D2, you really cant here as Polrayne said they seems to have fully went only into the side of just play to play, no goals, you get what ever drops and thats gratifying. If anything this is the way to please instant gratification crowds, i want to work to achieve goals here. While the game just randomly showers people with green and brown beam that mostly sucks.
I'm pretty sure the more you play the more you work towards that goal - Look at all the top streamers - Yeah they might play 10x more than you but their gear is a clear indication that you do work towards a goal long term. Yes RNG is RNG and you may have awful streaks of bad luck but you just stick with it that is the type of game Diablo 3 is and when I played Diablo 2 I remember farming months for a Windforce.
I can't understand how you spend 5k shards and got nothing.I have kadala droping legends on daily basis,and almost always,out of 500 shards i got 2-3 legs.
I'm pretty sure the more you play the more you work towards that goal - Look at all the top streamers - Yeah they might play 10x more than you but their gear is a clear indication that you do work towards a goal long term. Yes RNG is RNG and you may have awful streaks of bad luck but you just stick with it that is the type of game Diablo 3 is and when I played Diablo 2 I remember farming months for a Windforce.
Except as i explained RNG wasent the whole equation in D2. It is now, the time some of these streamers played this game so far is multiple years to me. The thing is that its only random now, even if i do play these years to catch up, i might never get it. In D2 i turned it around by trading with others what little i found. Like i said it took me months to finish Silence in D2, but i was guarantee to finish it eventually. You farmed months for a windforce, but because of the way D2 is setup the resources you gathered could have went toward trading it. Thats how you make long term gratification, something D3 fails at. You guys call what im talking about instant gratification, while its the opposite. D3 is the instant gratification, it shower you with stuff, mostly crap but it randomly showers you in it.
I didnt say someone else cannot enjoy the game, but someone from my demographic that plays with goals in mind and which is how i used to enjoy these games. D3 became the opposite of that, it went for instant but random gratification. Drop more loot, but high chance of never having what youd care for anyway. Some people dont need to set themsleves goals and thats fine, but i do and i used to be able to pursue them in D2, game had issues as well, but it had that at least. The series clearly just drifted away to a territory that does not appeal to me even if i been a fan for over a decade.
OK, I understand your point, basically you want trading back. But that opens the door to the third party sites selling stuff. Its kind of a trade off, and while I do miss trading I also dont miss people buying their items off of websites.
Honestly you should check out Path of Exile, the trading game there is strong as hell and you really have to understand the economy to trade effectively. It was this strong trading aspect of the game that ultimately led me to quit as I was spending HOURS bartering. D3 is better for my lifestyle as a Dad, just my 2 cents.
Just on Kadala and shards (while i can see your wider point) - I played a lot in first few days- (had some time off work) and took me 1500 shards tto get a source- I thought that was a lot- then Blizz upped it and now i get one maybe every 1000 shards. So i woudl have to conclude that the 5000 shards on shields alone may be related to a bug - which sucks- or extremly bad luck.
I have made a ledge shield (the one with bone wall thingy) and the wand atrophy and they seem bugged- the shield certainly as the proc never works-
(So there are def. bugs in the game not yet fixed)
Not sure if this is your problem but all the ppl in our small clan get ledges from kadala all the time - especially now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Age and treachery will always defeat youthfulness and zeal..."
OK, I understand your point, basically you want trading back. But that opens the door to the third party sites selling stuff. Its kind of a trade off, and while I do miss trading I also dont miss people buying their items off of websites.
Honestly you should check out Path of Exile, the trading game there is strong as hell and you really have to understand the economy to trade effectively. It was this strong trading aspect of the game that ultimately led me to quit as I was spending HOURS bartering. D3 is better for my lifestyle as a Dad, just my 2 cents.
Its not trade that i miss exactly alot of it was a chore, its more what it unabled as a goal seeker that i prefered. Im sure theres more than one way to do it that might not involve trading. Crafting for exemple could have been one of them, but they made crafting pretty poor again. They made it poor because they made crafting only short term goals and quick. It could have gone another way.
When did you use your blood shards? It used to be a really low chance to get a legendary. They have buffed it twice since then and now they drop like candy. 1-2% seems to be the rate. They already fixed this issue for you
OK, I understand your point, basically you want trading back. But that opens the door to the third party sites selling stuff. Its kind of a trade off, and while I do miss trading I also dont miss people buying their items off of websites.
Honestly you should check out Path of Exile, the trading game there is strong as hell and you really have to understand the economy to trade effectively. It was this strong trading aspect of the game that ultimately led me to quit as I was spending HOURS bartering. D3 is better for my lifestyle as a Dad, just my 2 cents.
Its not trade that i miss exactly alot of it was a chore, its more what it unabled as a goal seeker that i prefered. Im sure theres more than one way to do it that might not involve trading. Crafting for exemple could have been one of them, but they made crafting pretty poor again. They made it poor because they made crafting only short term goals and quick. It could have gone another way.
What do you mean crafting is short term and quick? You have to farm all the mats and sometimes re-reroll many times. For example I have made three sets of reaper wraps that didnt roll the way I wanted, this is a long term goal I am working on for my character. What changes exactly would you like to see in crafting. Seems like you have a feeling you want the game to have but no specific ideas about how to achieve that goal.
OK, I understand your point, basically you want trading back. But that opens the door to the third party sites selling stuff. Its kind of a trade off, and while I do miss trading I also dont miss people buying their items off of websites.
Honestly you should check out Path of Exile, the trading game there is strong as hell and you really have to understand the economy to trade effectively. It was this strong trading aspect of the game that ultimately led me to quit as I was spending HOURS bartering. D3 is better for my lifestyle as a Dad, just my 2 cents.
Its not trade that i miss exactly alot of it was a chore, its more what it unabled as a goal seeker that i prefered. Im sure theres more than one way to do it that might not involve trading. Crafting for exemple could have been one of them, but they made crafting pretty poor again. They made it poor because they made crafting only short term goals and quick. It could have gone another way.
What do you mean crafting is short term and quick? You have to farm all the mats and sometimes re-reroll many times. For example I have made three sets of reaper wraps that didnt roll the way I wanted, this is a long term goal I am working on for my character. What changes exactly would you like to see in crafting. Seems like you have a feeling you want the game to have but no specific ideas about how to achieve that goal.
Crafting is pretty quick compared so say farming enough to trade for a windforce or make your own rune words in D2. Thats why crafting items are mostly just to patch yourself in D3 and not exactly the strongest or containders. Reaper wraps being one of the exception, it suffer the same deal in general, its instant gratification because they are easy to craft, you see many of them. Its more of a short term goal really.
Im sure if you had some ideas of what to change specifically we could critique them intelligently, but you still have only criticisms. Now maybe some of your criticism are valid but lets hear some ideas from you.
You're only looking at one side of the coin - yes, you can play for hours and hours on end with no guarantees you'll find what you want. The flip side of that, however, is that you can also play for 10 minutes and find exactly what you want. It's just a different type of game, and that has its merits. Finding the piece of gear you've been hunting for in a random environment is a total rush because of the fact that drops are random and you could've gone months without finding it.
Personally, I prefer the randomness to the guaranteed because I'd rather have the chance to find what I want in a couple of hours, instead of the guarantee I'll get it in one year (to use your example about the Crusader shield). Like you, I'm an adult; I have responsibilities and I can only play a couple of hours here and a couple of hours there. I like knowing that during those couple of hours, I have a chance to find a sweet piece of gear. What you're describing, the system where you constantly make small progress toward your goal over many play sessions, that sounds like a job.
I also like the freedom that's provided by the fact that there are relatively few ways to short-circuit the lottery system that's in place. If I want a Blade of the Prophecy for my Crusader, all I can do is just play, and gamble for 2-handers. Lets me focus on the journey, not the destination.
You're only looking at one side of the coin - yes, you can play for hours and hours on end with no guarantees you'll find what you want. The flip side of that, however, is that you can also play for 10 minutes and find exactly what you want. It's just a different type of game, and that has its merits. Finding the piece of gear you've been hunting for in a random environment is a total rush because of the fact that drops are random and you could've gone months without finding it.
Personally, I prefer the randomness to the guaranteed because I'd rather have the chance to find what I want in a couple of hours, instead of the guarantee I'll get it in one year (to use your example about the Crusader shield). Like you, I'm an adult; I have responsibilities and I can only play a couple of hours here and a couple of hours there. I like knowing that during those couple of hours, I have a chance to find a sweet piece of gear. What you're describing, the system where you constantly make small progress toward your goal over many play sessions, that sounds like a job.
I also like the freedom that's provided by the fact that there are relatively few ways to short-circuit the lottery system that's in place. If I want a Blade of the Prophecy for my Crusader, all I can do is just play, and gamble for 2-handers. Lets me focus on the journey, not the destination.
That's my take on it.
I agree with the essence of this post. I actually enjoy playing the game, not wasting time trying to trade. Im in the random chance lottery as long as I am playing, and playing is fun. So I am having fun and hey, maybe I get that awesome upgrade I am looking for.
How did d2 give less loot ? One mephisto run on hell with 300mf usually dropped 2-3 uniques every time and those runs were much faster. D2 was the hunt for perfect or close to perfect items, but you atleast got to see the loot. I could run around with a terrible storm shield until I got a good one, in d3 I get to see around 1 item pr hour and it's usually bad ones just like in d2. The difference is that now i see way fewer uniques/legendaries and when I do they don't feel rewarding at all. The only goal in this game is to be able to do t6 efficiently, after that there is nothing other than perfecting your gear through complete "randomness". Once my goal of farming t6 solo quickly, i'll probably be in the same boat as you and quit playing the game. Unless a content patch with something interesting to do arrives before that happens. So now the race is on to see if I get 2 more set pieces before a content patch comes out, it likely wont happen since i've only gotten 3 set pieces in 300 hours on my crusader.
On the other hand i think this game is way to catered to the casual players and the loot system feels punishing to players that invest a lot of time. Usually the casual players just log in and get instant legandaries all the time, play for 30 minutes log off and the same thing happens again the next day. For those who play more the drops seem much slower and I can be doing t5 rifts(cleared in less than 15 minutes) for 2 hours without getting a single item.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ill address the challenge part first. Diablo series was and is not challenging. Nothing in this game is hard. Random item drop is not a challenge to overcome, you can never get better at it. You or me gambling gives off random results, you cant be better at it then someone else in the form it takes in diablo 3. So when ever someone discuss this bringing up that a player does not wish to have a challenge does not apply here.
Instant gratification, granted im sure some people complaining about this fall into this category legitimately, it does not have to be relevant. There is ways to make long term gratification without hidding it behind walls so that anyone with less time can at least get something out of it. Diablo 3 fails at this concept pretty hard. I could only gather 7500(around that) blood shards since the game came out, i have gained 0 legendary from this. I read story of people farming 80k blood shards, its not something id have the time to do thats like years of gameplay for me.
See the difference with Diablo 2 is this, i never got many items, but i could trade for them eventually. I never asked of the game to give me the same stuff that someone that can farm 80k blood shard does. In diablo 2 you can play and not be the richest, yet still have exactly the items you wanted eventually trading what you had. I wasent rich in D2 and i didnt have all characters in the best gear, but eventually i had every item i wanted on my Amazon. D3 the same concept can not apply, its a huge drawback. I was assured in D2 that eventually i had to finish my rune words via trading. It took me a while, but the goal was straight foward and everytime i traded toward that goal or found something i could trade i knew i was getting closer.
D3 gameplay is nothing like this, i spend 5000 of my blood shards on shields alone, i never got a single legendary from it, let alone the one id want. I have nothing realistic to work toward and since my time is limited and i cannot assume that my time will ever reward with something i do want. There is nothing in the game for someone like me. I cant work toward anything.
If you are still in college and have the time to farm 80k blood shard, thats great for you guys, i used to have that time too. I just dont think i should be dismissed as not a fan anymore or some new generation of gamers, because i dont have this kind of time luxury. The pervious games are able to appeal to my limited time with goals i could work toward, D3 does not do this. D3 does many things better, but that part is fails at miserably. This game just drifted toward an end of the spectrum away from my demographic into a territory i cannot enjoy, i think i have a legitimate point of view. I beat games harder than diablo series over the years, my gratification and challenge are well in check. The difference, most of these games did not attempt to be my second job. If a video game wants to take so much of my time, it has to make it so i can achieve my goals eventually in some way that is guaranteed. I can wait 1 year before finally having the best crusader shield, if i knew that i was working toward it, but you cant work towards anything in this game.
However my suggestion is in neither of those categories.
You look at the game as something you play to work toward a goal. That is a fair request of a game to make - its one that I share with you. But I think the core of the Diablo series is not "lets play tonight to work toward a goal", rather a mindset of "lets play tonight to see what I get."
Blood shards, Rifts, chests, caches, boss farming - all of these mechanics are simple ways to entertain you while you wait for the item lottery to hit. Hopefully it hits with something useful for your character, so you can feel as though you are working toward a goal. But given the fact that almost all of the loot is random, you will never be able to fully work toward certain goals. Goals being things like "I want to complete a set" or "I want this specific shield and sword combo."
You just sign in, play and work toward the goal of "what am I going to get tonight?"
I'd love to see the Diablo series embrace more of what you are looking for - but that takes the game more toward the play style of an MMO and Blizzard already has one of those
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
What exactly do you want them to do, give you a legendary ever 500 blood shards, legendary every hour, diablo is a grind game, and is way less grindy these days than it used to be. Im sorry but for a guy in a similar position to you I cant really see what you are talking about.
EDIT
Based on the thread where they're gathering information about gambling drop rates, it'd seem that most items have a 1-2% chance at being a legendary. My 10 legendaries for 2800 blood shards represents roughly 1.75%, which would lend credence to my claim that your numbers are simply wrong since there is a pretty large data set which would corroborate my experience.
Even if im showered in legendary if 99.99999% of them i destroy instantly after i identify is not what i want for a loot game. If the carrot is good id work months over time for it. If the carrot is randomly a piece of crap i wouldnt go for it even if it meant more carrots. You could set yourself goals in D2, you really cant here as Polrayne said they seems to have fully went only into the side of just play to play, no goals, you get what ever drops and thats gratifying. If anything this is the way to please instant gratification crowds, i want to work to achieve goals here. While the game just randomly showers people with green and brown beam that mostly sucks.
I didnt say someone else cannot enjoy the game, but someone from my demographic that plays with goals in mind and which is how i used to enjoy these games. D3 became the opposite of that, it went for instant but random gratification. Drop more loot, but high chance of never having what youd care for anyway. Some people dont need to set themsleves goals and thats fine, but i do and i used to be able to pursue them in D2, game had issues as well, but it had that at least. The series clearly just drifted away to a territory that does not appeal to me even if i been a fan for over a decade.
Honestly you should check out Path of Exile, the trading game there is strong as hell and you really have to understand the economy to trade effectively. It was this strong trading aspect of the game that ultimately led me to quit as I was spending HOURS bartering. D3 is better for my lifestyle as a Dad, just my 2 cents.
I have made a ledge shield (the one with bone wall thingy) and the wand atrophy and they seem bugged- the shield certainly as the proc never works-
(So there are def. bugs in the game not yet fixed)
Not sure if this is your problem but all the ppl in our small clan get ledges from kadala all the time - especially now.
"Age and treachery will always defeat youthfulness and zeal..."
Its not trade that i miss exactly alot of it was a chore, its more what it unabled as a goal seeker that i prefered. Im sure theres more than one way to do it that might not involve trading. Crafting for exemple could have been one of them, but they made crafting pretty poor again. They made it poor because they made crafting only short term goals and quick. It could have gone another way.
Personally, I prefer the randomness to the guaranteed because I'd rather have the chance to find what I want in a couple of hours, instead of the guarantee I'll get it in one year (to use your example about the Crusader shield). Like you, I'm an adult; I have responsibilities and I can only play a couple of hours here and a couple of hours there. I like knowing that during those couple of hours, I have a chance to find a sweet piece of gear. What you're describing, the system where you constantly make small progress toward your goal over many play sessions, that sounds like a job.
I also like the freedom that's provided by the fact that there are relatively few ways to short-circuit the lottery system that's in place. If I want a Blade of the Prophecy for my Crusader, all I can do is just play, and gamble for 2-handers. Lets me focus on the journey, not the destination.
That's my take on it.
On the other hand i think this game is way to catered to the casual players and the loot system feels punishing to players that invest a lot of time. Usually the casual players just log in and get instant legandaries all the time, play for 30 minutes log off and the same thing happens again the next day. For those who play more the drops seem much slower and I can be doing t5 rifts(cleared in less than 15 minutes) for 2 hours without getting a single item.