We don't know yet if we going to have set items. One of the problems for this item implemetation is, many of you already kno, the fact that when you collect the whole set it doesn't fit your level and other items level anymore, so it's better stick with magics, rares and unics.
What you guys suggest as solution to this problem?
My suggestion is:
Set items should be good as magic items. For that reason it should be not that hard to drop one. So it would drop all the time, like magic, and creat a full set would not be hard. I see absolutly no reason why in d2 sets drops are harder then rare drops, but rare are obviously much better in most cases.
Well, the problem as you said is that the availability of set items does accurately not reflect the strength of them. The beefing up option is bad however for two low-level sets because sets acquired at low level will be discarded fast regardless of their strength as characters level up.
Thus you need to increase availability. This has to be done through drops, true, but ideally I'd like to see a marginal increase in set drop-chance, but a better integrated trade-system that allows for sharing these sets fast and efficiently between players. This will increase their availability, without making them redundant as a result of too many drops. However in exchange for them you'll have to pay a small sum to the seller.
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I'd like to see sets be more rare, provide a wider range of appropriate stats and SCALE with whatever level you are.
So if you're level 70 when you complete your Sigon set, it would give a pretty good set of stats for that level. Of course I'd want uniques of around the same level to equal out about the same, so you don't feel forced into using sets.
Sets that scale with your level is a good idea. Each piece by itself should be a little bit better than magic items, but not as good as a rares/uniques of that item level. The drop rate should be less than magic items but better than rares/uniques. The real power of sets should be the bonuses you get when you collect more than 1 set piece. This will make it so that having set pieces early on won't be too overpowering, but will not be useless late game either. Scaling with level is a good idea for sets.
Nah, not scaling, i think thats a horrible thing. What i do like to see are things that are unique to sets. What i mean by this is things similar to how you could make runewords out of plain items and how you could craft them, how you could up rare a,d unique items and how they could be ethereal. I'm thinking in the line of making sets more personal, as in, cubing which bestow certain magical qualities to set items. For example, the angelics set gives you a huge amount of ar, thats about the only good thing it has, thus with some ingredients you could "unlock" certain high level qualities, eventually making the entire set viable as end gear.
Yes, you win.
Best idea yet. I would love that.
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Nah, not scaling, i think thats a horrible thing. What i do like to see are things that are unique to sets. What i mean by this is things similar to how you could make runewords out of plain items and how you could craft them, how you could up rare a,d unique items and how they could be ethereal. I'm thinking in the line of making sets more personal, as in, cubing which bestow certain magical qualities to set items. For example, the angelics set gives you a huge amount of ar, thats about the only good thing it has, thus with some ingredients you could "unlock" certain high level qualities, eventually making the entire set viable as end gear.
I do not like this idea because it is essentially the runeword system. The runeword system, and your idea above, puts more emphasis on the items used to boost the power of the set pieces rather than having the set pieces themselves being good. If you need to keep "enchanting"(lets just call it that for now) an item over and over as you level up, then the purpose of the game becomes more about the ingredients to enchant stuff rather than about the item itself.
For me it makes it less enjoyable knowing that I find this item and then have to go around getting all these ingredients together just bring it up to a certain level where it will be worthwhile to use. Atleast with scaling set items only it would not render them useless at any time. Scaling uniques/rares is a bit too much though and there should be a wide variety of those at all levels. Sets in my mind should function differently from any other type of quality item.
I do not like this idea because it is essentially the runeword system. The runeword system, and your idea above, puts more emphasis on the items used to boost the power of the set pieces rather than having the set pieces themselves being good. If you need to keep "enchanting"(lets just call it that for now) an item over and over as you level up, then the purpose of the game becomes more about the ingredients to enchant stuff rather than about the item itself.
I think that depends a great deal on how you want to view the idea. Technically, the special stat is already in the set item, you'd just be unlocking it. I think it's a great idea, but, at the same time, it depends what the player's will determine as useful stats. For instance, I'm sure the devs of Diablo II thought that +25 to energy was an awesome stat- however, after it was released to the public, energy was deemed a virtually useless mod to have in just about any item. So, I think it would really just be better if there were a bunch of stats that only sets could ever aquire, but that those special stats needed to be cubed in to the set item, that way you get to pick and choose which ones you want to improve your set item on your own and customize it more, while not ever having to be stuck with certain undesirable stats that you would unlock at a tier. I don't know, it made sense in my head. Maybe someone else will get what I'm saying or something.
I think scaling is a bad idea because it would take blizzard a lot of effort to calculate all the sets, I think they could do it from a technical point of view, but they'd have trouble foreseeing all the combinations(for higher levels) which could causing balancing issues.
Well, if they are more proactive in the Diablo gaming community of Diablo III than Diablo II, that will already be one huge step towards achieving better balancing and deciding what stats are worth it to players, and that, in turn, would help them understand what to fix in patches and such much better.
I think that depends a great deal on how you want to view the idea. Technically, the special stat is already in the set item, you'd just be unlocking it. I think it's a great idea, but, at the same time, it depends what the player's will determine as useful stats. For instance, I'm sure the devs of Diablo II thought that +25 to energy was an awesome stat- however, after it was released to the public, energy was deemed a virtually useless mod to have in just about any item. So, I think it would really just be better if there were a bunch of stats that only sets could ever aquire, but that those special stats needed to be cubed in to the set item, that way you get to pick and choose which ones you want to improve your set item on your own and customize it more, while not ever having to be stuck with certain undesirable stats that you would unlock at a tier. I don't know, it made sense in my head. Maybe someone else will get what I'm saying or something.
I like the idea and i get what your thinking, take a given set, give it more unlock able potential than can be chosen to be unlocked, therefore letting players customize and tailor a given set to their own personal needs(also allowing blizzard to compensate for whatever initial miscalculation, like with the +25 to energy, which they may have made) . XD Where's the loss (I loved using the Cube in d2):D
Well, this will probably sound sort of unrealistic and lame, but what about set items developing certain stats based on what aspects of your character you develop the most, like how much you get hit in melee, how often you use certain skills or elements, how much health you lose in a basic battle, etc., and then it would develop modifiers on its own based on that? Then there's no way your gear could go against the way you like to play. Limits, of course, but the concept is there. It would also encourage more active playing than just finding random stuff to mix.
Well they are incorporating the dynamic stats system (right? ?:-/) so something like that would make sense since it would tie into the new system(which i don't like the sound of but hell, it worked in morrowind :-p )
Well, I meant that strictly being an element of set items, so that the more you use them, the more useful they are, thus reducing the "by the time I get the whole thing, they're useless" effect, maybe. It would be something new and unique to only set items. While other items might give instant gratification, set items like this take time to develop, and they could be a good timesink to stimulate the in-game economy.
@ Balancing with the skill runes: Yeah, I was kind of thinking of that as I was typing it. In conjunction with skill runes, it might be too overpowering or too hard to implement. Dunno : /
Well actually, it kind of sounds cool, if the "leveled" items kept their risen stats, it would make them so much more valuable than non-leveled items. But then at the same time i see botters somehow taking advantage of this anyway :-[
Well, the thing is, botters will take advantage of any system, period. So, to think from the beginning not to do something because of cheaters is basically to give up on every aspect of a game from the beginning, in my opinion. That isn't to say that concern isn't warranted, but still.
natural progression, seeing that the set would largely (or maybe even entirely) depend on your skill placement. (thus useful/viable from level 1-99)
Yes, that's a very good term for it. It kind of makes your set items seem alive, also, in a way, because they adapt to fit you perfectly. On a kind of role-playing level, I guess, it would be like the inner power of Trag'Oul's Avatar in the Trag'Oul set being alive in your items, trying to make you the best you can be, sort of. Evolving power in your equipment.
However, there would also have to be restraints, because we don't want this becoming the only ideal way to making a set of gear. That, I think, is the hard part. A little too much and no one uses sets, and little too less and its the only gear anyone ever considers.
I think Doppelganger's idea rocks, and i didn't mean that we shouldn't do something because botters take advantage, i just randomly pointed out that they would :-[ (kind of like thinking out loud) lol
I think the way to make sets viable is to give them unique skills, like a demonic set that gives you a damaging aura that hurts everything within a certain area (including yourself :D). The skill on the set would adjust to your level. The power of the set depends on your ability to wield its magic.
Well, the problem as you said is that the availability of set items does accurately not reflect the strength of them. The beefing up option is bad however for two low-level sets because sets acquired at low level will be discarded fast regardless of their strength as characters level up.
Thus you need to increase availability. This has to be done through drops, true, but ideally I'd like to see a marginal increase in set drop-chance, but a better integrated trade-system that allows for sharing these sets fast and efficiently between players. This will increase their availability, without making them redundant as a result of too many drops. However in exchange for them you'll have to pay a small sum to the seller.
Gold as a currency will make people want to trade low level set pieces because small quantities of gold accumulate to a greater wealth, unlike the item4item system where you can't trade 20 low-level items for something relevant, so you won't bother keeping them in the first place. So low level gear availability on the market won't be an issue anymore.
The other thing is that they don't want people to quickly outgrow items later in the game, according to Jay Wilson. And if it takes you three weeks to level from 75 to 85 than you will rather wear an inferior set that is complete, than several pieces of a superior set that you have but are incomplete. So as long as they don't implement rushing, that won't be an issue either.
Et voila, I've given a perfect answer for OP's concerns.
I do think sets, if they stay, shouldn't have more then 3 set pieces, 4 absolute max, then you could at least combine sets for some interesting combo's. Or, what about sets being apart from set pieces, also pieces of set pieces, as in "broken pieces" which you need to cube to "fix" for example. Dunno.
The small set concept is definately good. That way you can still customize your character outside of the set parameters, since the set doesn't take up all slots.
Quote from "Murderface" »
I think the way to make sets viable is to give them unique skills, like a demonic set that gives you a damaging aura that hurts everything within a certain area (including yourself :D). The skill on the set would adjust to your level. The power of the set depends on your ability to wield its magic.
While it's definately fun to have special abilities on sets, the danger comes when a set provides a unique ability not found anywhere else. Mora than likely, either the ability sucks and no one will bother with it, or it will be monstrously effective (Teleport is the rpime example) and everyone will want the item.
Quote from "Dimebog" »
Gold as a currency will make people want to trade low level set pieces because small quantities of gold accumulate to a greater wealth, unlike the item4item system where you can't trade 20 low-level item for something relevant, so you won't bother keeping them in the first place. So that won't be an issue anymore.
Exacly, the trading aspect brings the set items out on the market, where previously they were just vendored or plain ignored on the ground.
Quote from "Dimebog" »
The other thing is that they don't want people to quickly outgrow items later in the game, according to Jay Wilson. And if it takes you three weeks to level from 75 to 85 than you will rather wear an inferior set that is complete, than several pieces of a superior set that you have but are incomplete. So as long as they don't implement rushing, that won't be an issue either.
We don't know however how long it will take to level at the high levels. Levelling went progressively faster in Diablo II as the years passed. If Blizzard can just strike a balance here though, then even inferior sets could be useful.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
What you guys suggest as solution to this problem?
My suggestion is:
Set items should be good as magic items. For that reason it should be not that hard to drop one. So it would drop all the time, like magic, and creat a full set would not be hard. I see absolutly no reason why in d2 sets drops are harder then rare drops, but rare are obviously much better in most cases.
Thus you need to increase availability. This has to be done through drops, true, but ideally I'd like to see a marginal increase in set drop-chance, but a better integrated trade-system that allows for sharing these sets fast and efficiently between players. This will increase their availability, without making them redundant as a result of too many drops. However in exchange for them you'll have to pay a small sum to the seller.
So if you're level 70 when you complete your Sigon set, it would give a pretty good set of stats for that level. Of course I'd want uniques of around the same level to equal out about the same, so you don't feel forced into using sets.
Yes, you win.
Best idea yet. I would love that.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I do not like this idea because it is essentially the runeword system. The runeword system, and your idea above, puts more emphasis on the items used to boost the power of the set pieces rather than having the set pieces themselves being good. If you need to keep "enchanting"(lets just call it that for now) an item over and over as you level up, then the purpose of the game becomes more about the ingredients to enchant stuff rather than about the item itself.
For me it makes it less enjoyable knowing that I find this item and then have to go around getting all these ingredients together just bring it up to a certain level where it will be worthwhile to use. Atleast with scaling set items only it would not render them useless at any time. Scaling uniques/rares is a bit too much though and there should be a wide variety of those at all levels. Sets in my mind should function differently from any other type of quality item.
I think that depends a great deal on how you want to view the idea. Technically, the special stat is already in the set item, you'd just be unlocking it. I think it's a great idea, but, at the same time, it depends what the player's will determine as useful stats. For instance, I'm sure the devs of Diablo II thought that +25 to energy was an awesome stat- however, after it was released to the public, energy was deemed a virtually useless mod to have in just about any item. So, I think it would really just be better if there were a bunch of stats that only sets could ever aquire, but that those special stats needed to be cubed in to the set item, that way you get to pick and choose which ones you want to improve your set item on your own and customize it more, while not ever having to be stuck with certain undesirable stats that you would unlock at a tier. I don't know, it made sense in my head. Maybe someone else will get what I'm saying or something.
I like the idea and i get what your thinking, take a given set, give it more unlock able potential than can be chosen to be unlocked, therefore letting players customize and tailor a given set to their own personal needs(also allowing blizzard to compensate for whatever initial miscalculation, like with the +25 to energy, which they may have made) . XD Where's the loss (I loved using the Cube in d2):D
@ Balancing with the skill runes: Yeah, I was kind of thinking of that as I was typing it. In conjunction with skill runes, it might be too overpowering or too hard to implement. Dunno : /
Yes, that's a very good term for it. It kind of makes your set items seem alive, also, in a way, because they adapt to fit you perfectly. On a kind of role-playing level, I guess, it would be like the inner power of Trag'Oul's Avatar in the Trag'Oul set being alive in your items, trying to make you the best you can be, sort of. Evolving power in your equipment.
However, there would also have to be restraints, because we don't want this becoming the only ideal way to making a set of gear. That, I think, is the hard part. A little too much and no one uses sets, and little too less and its the only gear anyone ever considers.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
The other thing is that they don't want people to quickly outgrow items later in the game, according to Jay Wilson. And if it takes you three weeks to level from 75 to 85 than you will rather wear an inferior set that is complete, than several pieces of a superior set that you have but are incomplete. So as long as they don't implement rushing, that won't be an issue either.
Et voila, I've given a perfect answer for OP's concerns.
While it's definately fun to have special abilities on sets, the danger comes when a set provides a unique ability not found anywhere else. Mora than likely, either the ability sucks and no one will bother with it, or it will be monstrously effective (Teleport is the rpime example) and everyone will want the item.
Exacly, the trading aspect brings the set items out on the market, where previously they were just vendored or plain ignored on the ground.
We don't know however how long it will take to level at the high levels. Levelling went progressively faster in Diablo II as the years passed. If Blizzard can just strike a balance here though, then even inferior sets could be useful.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.