The designers have been working on and testing a system that actually ties the rare/champion pack kills to boss kills quite nicely. It seems like it's solid enough for us to talk about the intent and goals even though it's still in testing, we can look into sharing more about it ... SOON.
Thought I would start some discussion on this ^
Outside the obvious reaction I had (I'm sure you probably had too) of "Oh gosh, yet another thing thats still in "testing" and they will share more on "soon"!! I thought we got past all that stuff (the skill / rune system reveal)
But, after that, you start to think what the heck this could mean?
I tried to think what could be done to accomplish this, as it sounds pretty cool in concept, but in practice, its hard to invision what they could be doing:
-Perhaps, klling a boss (such as the skelleton king) gives you an increased chance at spawning rare / champion packs? For example, you kill Skelly, then for 30 min or somthing, you have a +10% chance to spawn a rare pack? That doesn't seem likely at all, but I suppose its possible
-Maybe, killing a rare / champion pack gives you a stacking MF buff that increases MF, but only from bosses? In other words, steamrolling to a boss, with out killing anything, would cause the boss to basically be like killing a single non rare monster (After your first quest kill of course) but, if you clear the whole area, getting through 8-12 or so rare/champion packs, you would have enough of a buff to make the boss drop quality loot. In other words, the more rares / champions you hunt down and kill (which themselves drop great loot) the more viable the boss kill will become (perhaps even becoming more valluable than a rare pack if you have killed everything in the area before hand).
What are your thoughts on how this "system" may work?
I hope they make bosses viable targets. I'm a little worried though because lately, a lot of blizzard's design choices felt rushed and came with significant negative aspects (in addition to fixing the original problem). I just hope it's not clunky like all of the user suggestions on the forums.
Personally I'm hoping for EXACTLY what your second idea is: killing more rare/champ packs increases your MF *for the boss in that area.* It gives us an incentive to still kill bosses, but playing through the WHOLE area is the "best" strategy.
killing a boss is just as good as killing a champ/rare -.-?
I doubt that is it as it would encourage boss runs over exploration, for the simple reason that you always know where the boss will spawn.
It is likely the second idea listed in the OP, though maybe with some additional complexity to encourage grouping instead of splitting your party to the four corners of the map. For every player within (radius) of a champion/rare pack kill, boss magic find is increased by (fixed percentage)/(number of players in game). Or something similar.
killing a boss is just as good as killing a champ/rare -.-?
simply this... Bash did say ( or another blue poster ), that they don't want to create boss farming, so you could farm the 1/3 of act 2 inferno if you prefer this place from all the other places in-game.
So no need to do the whole act to get a loot, just start act 1 and your drop chances will be the same as killing d3 in act 4.
I really prefer this because you will see a lot of rare/champion pack in inferno.
I believe it will be something along the lines of your second idea. I personally like this, because I would still like the bosses to be viable kill targets.
I take his comment to mean that quality/quantity of boss loot increases for every rare/champ pack you kill in that particular game and maybe even the specific act.
If this is the case then great. I had already planned on doing 80-90% act clears then killing the boss anyways.
If it is a stacking magic find system, I really hope there's a cap that isn't too high. I only have so much time to play so the benefit of the old system is that you can play for a few minutes, find a champion pack and kill it. If you need to kill, let's say 10 champion packs, the time commitment just increased by a lot.
Whatever the solution is, it has to be simple and intuitive.
Decent ideas OP. In Diablo III i assume most boss fights are at the end of each level of course. So my opinion on what they might do is, after you defeat a boss on higher difficulties maybe as soon as the boss dies all the mobs in the zones you cleared re spawn at higher levels/ higher chance of spawning rare mobs. But i think killing a boss will cause rare packs to spawn or something similar. Maybe they will tie it to lore in some way like killing the commanding general causes the minions to break free from their orders "re-spawning new mobs in already cleared areas". So you force your way through a dungeon kill the boss and work your way out... idk though unless the developers are geniuses i can't really think how they can make rare pacts and bosses tied together in any innovative ways.
But i am certainly glad they are making farming more fun by making Bosses important farm targets and making rare packs important at the same time... very good idea. I was super bummed when Bashiok said Bosses won't even drop the best items. IMO bosses should be important lol and drop great shit; so glad he mentioned that little tidbid about having them tied together in someway
Oh i just thought of something after re-reading my post... Instead of re-spawning the whole zoned you cleared to get to the boss, maybe a bonus area unlocks after you kill a boss, and entering it has increased difficulty (mob levels +) with a much higher chance to spawn multiple rare mob packs! Sounds decent i guess and an extra reward for players. Also rewards people who can kill bosses faster because they can enter this "final level" quicker and farm it more.
Personally I'm hoping for EXACTLY what your second idea is: killing more rare/champ packs increases your MF *for the boss in that area.* It gives us an incentive to still kill bosses, but playing through the WHOLE area is the "best" strategy.
I hope for this. I was seriously thinking have having a character slot that I would reroll just to kill all the bosses again to get the quest loot. After killing the last boss on inferno, move all the items out of character, delete, rinse and repeat.
Personally I'm hoping for EXACTLY what your second idea is: killing more rare/champ packs increases your MF *for the boss in that area.* It gives us an incentive to still kill bosses, but playing through the WHOLE area is the "best" strategy.
I hope for this. I was seriously thinking have having a character slot that I would reroll just to kill all the bosses again to get the quest loot. After killing the last boss on inferno, move all the items out of character, delete, rinse and repeat.
,
Saves me from rerolling all the time.
Bash said rares will drop the best stuff so saying killing rares to beyter boss drops seems off. In someway killing a boss will effect rares seems closer to what bash said
They are just looking for more ways to delay the release. Dont look into this too much, no doubt in the next 2 weeks JW will come out and say "After much testing, we have decided to cut the boss/champion hunting system we have talked about in favor of a simpler system"
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Blizzard used to care about releasing Diablo III, then they all took an arrow in the knee...
They are just looking for more ways to delay the release. Dont look into this too much, no doubt in the next 2 weeks JW will come out and say "After much testing, we have decided to cut the boss/champion hunting system we have talked about in favor of a simpler system"
I would actually laugh if those exact words are expressed!
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
They are just looking for more ways to delay the release. Dont look into this too much, no doubt in the next 2 weeks JW will come out and say "After much testing, we have decided to cut the boss/champion hunting system we have talked about in favor of a simpler system"
"after so much testing, we have decided to cut bosses out of the game completely in favor of a timely release. our new system replacing bosses coming in beta patch 3,301.B-DIK will automatically choose the path you walk and will walk you straight up to the rare mob pack. If you want to find your own path you can enable "hard mode" in the options
Here's a far-out idea that could make a lot of sense, though I doubt it would be considered this late in the game's development:
Add another bar at the bottom of the screen that represents luck. Put the bar right above the EXP bar, but make it a light green color.
After every kill, whether it be a normal kill or a champion kill, the luck bar moves. Regular enemies give small amounts of luck, champions give a lot, and all other enemies in between. Type of enemy can count, too.
Let's say you kill a boss without anything built up in your luck bar. You get no added bonus Magic Find.
Now, let's say you kill a boss after filling your luck meter up half way. You get +50% Magic Find on bosses.
Furthermore, fill up the luck meter all the way (there's a cap, of course), and you'll get something like +100% Magic Find.
If they wanted to still steer players away from boss runs, they could make the +MF% add to all kills.
When you leave a game, say goodbye to your luck, for you'll need to boost it up again next game.
They could even implement a depletion rate on the luck meter to discourage people from staying in games for days without leaving. For example, a player gets up to half way on the luck meter, takes a break for an hour (we all eat sometime), and comes back to find that his luck meter is now down to a quarter full. In that case, the luck meter would deplete 25% per hour.
In this sense, players could be able to increase Magic Find without using less desirable gear, which would be a huge incentive overall. Honestly, I think this is the only way I can imagine something being implemented that is an example of "concentrated coolness." I think there are some good ideas out there, but it's important to realize that Blizzard will not implement something that is complicated for users to understand without having to consult a source outside of the game. It needs to be simple, yet effective, and I think this system would work really well.
Personally I'm hoping for EXACTLY what your second idea is: killing more rare/champ packs increases your MF *for the boss in that area.* It gives us an incentive to still kill bosses, but playing through the WHOLE area is the "best" strategy.
I hope for this. I was seriously thinking have having a character slot that I would reroll just to kill all the bosses again to get the quest loot. After killing the last boss on inferno, move all the items out of character, delete, rinse and repeat.
Saves me from rerolling all the time.
Your plan was to delete your toons and re-level all the way to 60 just for the slightly increased chance to get 1 rare from a boss?
ROFL!! Thats like the worst plan in history....
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Imagine seeing a MF meter fill up when going through a dungeon. It would not feel very "RP".
How about a hidden meter which fills up more from champions but also fills from any other cronies of the boss.
Also this meter cannot be maxed out by clearing the whole dungeon since every run will have a random amount of mobs, adding only slightly to the drop chance.
Champions have the same drop table as bosses, only the boss drop chance is increased by killing mobs.
Anything hidden is a bad idea. Keep in mind that hardcore players aren't the only ones that play this game. Any system where it takes behind the scenes information to understand what is going on/how to play well, is a bad system. There needs to be something in-game that lets the user know what is happening and what the current game-state is.
Imagine seeing a MF meter fill up when going through a dungeon. It would not feel very "RP".
How about a hidden meter which fills up more from champions but also fills from any other cronies of the boss.
Also this meter cannot be maxed out by clearing the whole dungeon since every run will have a random amount of mobs, adding only slightly to the drop chance.
Champions have the same drop table as bosses, only the boss drop chance is increased by killing mobs.
Anything hidden is a bad idea. Keep in mind that hardcore players aren't the only ones that play this game. Any system where it takes behind the scenes information to understand what is going on/how to play well, is a bad system. There needs to be something in-game that lets the user know what is happening and what the current game-state is.
Because knowing the drop rates of every monster and what item was sooo useful... Yah they eventually figured it out in D2 but I had to go to a website for it and in the end farming one area for one particular item was a waste of time. Loot is the main drive of the game and you never know the rates so it’s not bad not knowing.
EDIT: In the end it's Kill and have fun, for f'sakes why do people try to make this a science, you’re going to clear acts have fun and get loot, finding an optimal farming method generally won't produce noticeable results it’s all random....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Imagine seeing a MF meter fill up when going through a dungeon. It would not feel very "RP".
How about a hidden meter which fills up more from champions but also fills from any other cronies of the boss.
Also this meter cannot be maxed out by clearing the whole dungeon since every run will have a random amount of mobs, adding only slightly to the drop chance.
Champions have the same drop table as bosses, only the boss drop chance is increased by killing mobs.
Anything hidden is a bad idea. Keep in mind that hardcore players aren't the only ones that play this game. Any system where it takes behind the scenes information to understand what is going on/how to play well, is a bad system. There needs to be something in-game that lets the user know what is happening and what the current game-state is.
Because knowing the drop rates of every monster and what item was sooo useful... Yah they eventually figured it out in D2 but I had to go to a website for it and in the end farming one area for one particular item was a waste of time. Loot is the main drive of the game and you never know the rates so it’s not bad not knowing.
EDIT: In the end it's Kill and have fun, for f'sakes why do people try to make this a science, you’re going to clear acts have fun and get loot, finding an optimal farming method generally won't produce noticeable results it’s all random....
It has nothing to do with knowing the drop rates, it has to do with knowing the mechanics of the game. If you kill a certain boss and you gain a major advantage but half the people that play don't know this... sounds like a horrible system to me.
That said, it's not hard to add a buff when you kill a monster that gives you a visual clue about what is happening.
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Official Blizzard Quote:
The designers have been working on and testing a system that actually ties the rare/champion pack kills to boss kills quite nicely. It seems like it's solid enough for us to talk about the intent and goals even though it's still in testing, we can look into sharing more about it ... SOON.
Thought I would start some discussion on this ^
Outside the obvious reaction I had (I'm sure you probably had too) of "Oh gosh, yet another thing thats still in "testing" and they will share more on "soon"!! I thought we got past all that stuff (the skill / rune system reveal)
But, after that, you start to think what the heck this could mean?
I tried to think what could be done to accomplish this, as it sounds pretty cool in concept, but in practice, its hard to invision what they could be doing:
-Perhaps, klling a boss (such as the skelleton king) gives you an increased chance at spawning rare / champion packs? For example, you kill Skelly, then for 30 min or somthing, you have a +10% chance to spawn a rare pack? That doesn't seem likely at all, but I suppose its possible
-Maybe, killing a rare / champion pack gives you a stacking MF buff that increases MF, but only from bosses? In other words, steamrolling to a boss, with out killing anything, would cause the boss to basically be like killing a single non rare monster (After your first quest kill of course) but, if you clear the whole area, getting through 8-12 or so rare/champion packs, you would have enough of a buff to make the boss drop quality loot. In other words, the more rares / champions you hunt down and kill (which themselves drop great loot) the more viable the boss kill will become (perhaps even becoming more valluable than a rare pack if you have killed everything in the area before hand).
What are your thoughts on how this "system" may work?
I doubt that is it as it would encourage boss runs over exploration, for the simple reason that you always know where the boss will spawn.
It is likely the second idea listed in the OP, though maybe with some additional complexity to encourage grouping instead of splitting your party to the four corners of the map. For every player within (radius) of a champion/rare pack kill, boss magic find is increased by (fixed percentage)/(number of players in game). Or something similar.
simply this... Bash did say ( or another blue poster ), that they don't want to create boss farming, so you could farm the 1/3 of act 2 inferno if you prefer this place from all the other places in-game.
So no need to do the whole act to get a loot, just start act 1 and your drop chances will be the same as killing d3 in act 4.
I really prefer this because you will see a lot of rare/champion pack in inferno.
If this is the case then great. I had already planned on doing 80-90% act clears then killing the boss anyways.
Whatever the solution is, it has to be simple and intuitive.
But i am certainly glad they are making farming more fun by making Bosses important farm targets and making rare packs important at the same time... very good idea. I was super bummed when Bashiok said Bosses won't even drop the best items. IMO bosses should be important lol and drop great shit; so glad he mentioned that little tidbid about having them tied together in someway
Oh i just thought of something after re-reading my post... Instead of re-spawning the whole zoned you cleared to get to the boss, maybe a bonus area unlocks after you kill a boss, and entering it has increased difficulty (mob levels +) with a much higher chance to spawn multiple rare mob packs! Sounds decent i guess and an extra reward for players. Also rewards people who can kill bosses faster because they can enter this "final level" quicker and farm it more.
I hope for this. I was seriously thinking have having a character slot that I would reroll just to kill all the bosses again to get the quest loot. After killing the last boss on inferno, move all the items out of character, delete, rinse and repeat.
Saves me from rerolling all the time.
Bash said rares will drop the best stuff so saying killing rares to beyter boss drops seems off. In someway killing a boss will effect rares seems closer to what bash said
I would actually laugh if those exact words are expressed!
"after so much testing, we have decided to cut bosses out of the game completely in favor of a timely release. our new system replacing bosses coming in beta patch 3,301.B-DIK will automatically choose the path you walk and will walk you straight up to the rare mob pack. If you want to find your own path you can enable "hard mode" in the options
Add another bar at the bottom of the screen that represents luck. Put the bar right above the EXP bar, but make it a light green color.
After every kill, whether it be a normal kill or a champion kill, the luck bar moves. Regular enemies give small amounts of luck, champions give a lot, and all other enemies in between. Type of enemy can count, too.
Let's say you kill a boss without anything built up in your luck bar. You get no added bonus Magic Find.
Now, let's say you kill a boss after filling your luck meter up half way. You get +50% Magic Find on bosses.
Furthermore, fill up the luck meter all the way (there's a cap, of course), and you'll get something like +100% Magic Find.
If they wanted to still steer players away from boss runs, they could make the +MF% add to all kills.
When you leave a game, say goodbye to your luck, for you'll need to boost it up again next game.
They could even implement a depletion rate on the luck meter to discourage people from staying in games for days without leaving. For example, a player gets up to half way on the luck meter, takes a break for an hour (we all eat sometime), and comes back to find that his luck meter is now down to a quarter full. In that case, the luck meter would deplete 25% per hour.
In this sense, players could be able to increase Magic Find without using less desirable gear, which would be a huge incentive overall. Honestly, I think this is the only way I can imagine something being implemented that is an example of "concentrated coolness." I think there are some good ideas out there, but it's important to realize that Blizzard will not implement something that is complicated for users to understand without having to consult a source outside of the game. It needs to be simple, yet effective, and I think this system would work really well.
Edit: made a new thread as to not hijack this one as much:
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/36674-new-idea-luck-system/
Your plan was to delete your toons and re-level all the way to 60 just for the slightly increased chance to get 1 rare from a boss?
ROFL!! Thats like the worst plan in history....
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Anything hidden is a bad idea. Keep in mind that hardcore players aren't the only ones that play this game. Any system where it takes behind the scenes information to understand what is going on/how to play well, is a bad system. There needs to be something in-game that lets the user know what is happening and what the current game-state is.
Because knowing the drop rates of every monster and what item was sooo useful... Yah they eventually figured it out in D2 but I had to go to a website for it and in the end farming one area for one particular item was a waste of time. Loot is the main drive of the game and you never know the rates so it’s not bad not knowing.
EDIT: In the end it's Kill and have fun, for f'sakes why do people try to make this a science, you’re going to clear acts have fun and get loot, finding an optimal farming method generally won't produce noticeable results it’s all random....
It has nothing to do with knowing the drop rates, it has to do with knowing the mechanics of the game. If you kill a certain boss and you gain a major advantage but half the people that play don't know this... sounds like a horrible system to me.
That said, it's not hard to add a buff when you kill a monster that gives you a visual clue about what is happening.