What designates "out of combat"? Does that mean you're not currently being agro'd or does it mean with no monsters in sight?
Personally in the throws of battle I doubt I'll be taking a moment to ponder my skill choice, while taking constant damage. And if you're not agro'd then it's as simple as walking out of sight of the enemies. Your nerf means practically nothing on these conditions. And if you're for "haven't been attacked in 30-60-120 seconds" group then I would basically have to sit and wait for the invisible cooldown for 30 seconds to 2 minutes, which is aggravating and removes suspension of belief.
Out of combat is when the MASSACRE screen pops up. ;]
WTF are you talking about, they just pulled this "NEW" rune system out of their ass, the system they've been working on for a ton of years, was literally just changed.
Shit.
I was out of the loop, for some reasons.
This unnattuned rune system is full of flaws, indeed, and its a radical change.
I'm not sure what's wrong with using runes as a lock-in method, that's what has seemed awesomest to me this whole time D:
I mean, if you can only swap out runes if you pop them out with the jeweler, runes are a great way to lock into a build and charge resources for a swap.
WTF are you talking about, they just pulled this "NEW" rune system out of their ass, the system they've been working on for a ton of years, was literally just changed.
Shit.
I was out of the loop, for some reasons.
This unnattuned rune system is full of flaws, indeed, and its a radical change.
Oh ok, yea they have this really bad unnatuned rune system now.
WTF are you talking about, they just pulled this "NEW" rune system out of their ass, the system they've been working on for a ton of years, was literally just changed.
Shit.
I was out of the loop, for some reasons.
This unnattuned rune system is full of flaws, indeed, and its a radical change.
Oh ok, yea they have this really bad unnatuned rune system now.
well seeing as we dont even know what their current plans are on it (as im sure its changed from the AUG 1 video) we cant say its a really bad system when we dont even know =P)
Like I said, I feel strongly that if it is indeed bad, they wont do it.
well seeing as we dont even know what their current plans are on it (as im sure its changed from the AUG 1 video) we cant say its a really bad system when we dont even know =P)
NO! IT'S BROKEN! I KNOW BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT.
Lol, this system is the only thing they have announced that hasn't sat well with me. The idea of farming runes in this fashion just doesn't SOUND fun. For all I know runes drop frequently so I have a good chance to find a few and pop them in, on the other hand runes may only drop from special mobs or bosses and it would be incredibly frustrating to find them especially on inferno where the mobs are so strong. But like you said, we shall see
While having flexibility is one thing, being able to swap without restrictions at all renders a lot of skills useless to ever have on your bar when you can just swap to them when needed.
A good example would be Threatening Shout for Barbarian - whenever you face a unique monster or boss you could easily swap to it, apply the debuff, swap back to another skill and get the full benefit of the ability without ever needing to actually have it be "a part of your build". There has to be consequences at some point and there has to be a reason to justify having an ability like Threatening Shout on your bar at all times. Being able to swap out anytime does not accomplish that.
If you swap an ability all its buff/debuffs are canceled. So no, you can't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Traitors! Even in death, the armies of Khanduras will still obey their king!"
Maybe they could make the skill-swapping system mirror the game-exiting system. If you're not in town, it takes 20 seconds for the new skill to appear in your hotkey bar after you have selected it. If you're in town, you can change skills freely with no time limit. Also, from what I've seen people can use their skills in town, so it would be easy to swap skills and try things out (albeit, not in combat).
If the final skill system has zero restrictions then there's no point in having only 6 skill slots
I think it will be easy to pick 6 skills to fit any situation without needing to swap every 5 mins so I'm fine with it being a town swap or a simple out-of-combat swap.
As a follow up, there's no concept of 'in combat' or 'out of combat' in the game, so that's not something we can just hook in to. There could be. We could take programming time dedicated to other features and design and build out a 'combat state' system, but that's programming time away from something else.
I guessssss in town will have to do... =/ I don't like it, no sir I don't. But it beats a super long CD.
edit: take that back, -cast time- with an on hit is canceled, that works.
I got trolled and flamed for 10 pages to get that blue post,
You are welcome.
PS: The town thing would suck, but random colors is far far worse. I would gladly port to town if my runes were nor random color generated, and I was not forced to stash multiple alts with spare runes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
As a follow up, there's no concept of 'in combat' or 'out of combat' in the game, so that's not something we can just hook in to. There could be. We could take programming time dedicated to other features and design and build out a 'combat state' system, but that's programming time away from something else.
I guessssss in town will have to do... =/ I don't like it, no sir I don't. But it beats a super long CD.
edit: take that back, -cast time- with an on hit is canceled, that works.
Don't give up hope yet. I NEED BASHIOK TO SEE THIS! (please help by liking my post!)
all that going back to town does, is add a delay... we will wait for someone to go back to town, switch, come back via the banner, then wait for the next person to do it... thats not "locking" thats just an annoyin delay
The big thing I got from that is blizzard knows players are concerned about unattuned runestones as well as skill switching in combat. I think they know that we know the best way to deal with skill swapping is only having it enabled out of combat, but there is no such combat/out of combat system. Someone in the thread has mentioned it having a cast time (interrupt able by any damage) and that too could solve the problem. The in town thing is probably a last resort, but still much better than almost any other limitation other than those mentioned.
all that going back to town does, is add a delay... we will wait for someone to go back to town, switch, come back via the banner, then wait for the next person to do it... thats not "locking" thats just an annoyin delay
added a link to my post.
What really irks me is that making players use the town portal to switch skills is counter-intuitive to their "Let the player stay in the action" philosophy. It's not so much the delay it causes that's a problem, but the fact that you have to go through the motions of casting the Stone, zoning back to town, switching skills, then zoning back.
It's going to really annoy players to have to go back to town to try a new skill every time they level up, considering you don't even get the Stone of Recall until level 6 or 7.
Yep have to agree, the best suggestion I've seen is either the cast bar (which would still be slightly annoying if changing all 6 skills / runes / passives, but better than going to town) and my personal favorite : As long as you haven't dealt damage in the last like 15 seconds. I think that's the winner, because after that 15 sec is up you can switch as fast as you want, so no delay there, but also stops from switching mid fight =)
It does concern me that this far into development, Bash is basically stating "We don't know what we are gonna do yet" for multiple game functions.
I'm a bit surprised they're even considering more re-writes. Adding another state machine, aka some combat_state mechanism, with this much code already written, will take a non-trivial amount of retro-fitting. But that's not what worries me.. what worries me is shoe-horning feature functionality in mature code like that tends to cause boo-coo bugs, and THAT would likely gutshot the ship date.
I think it's highly unlikely they'll do that.
But honestly though, don't worry too much about the "programming time" thing. Bash mentions that devoting "programming time" to this feature will pull programming time away from other features... But at this stage of development, most of the programming time he's talking about is bug fixes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Ok well the post mentions that it wouldn't be viable to go to the auction house and search for your runes. Yeah I mean I guess that's sort of true, if I went to the AH in WoW and just hit Search without any filtering at all I'd be overwhelmed. When you break it down into Class -> Skill -> Rank, you're only looking at 6 runes. You know what rune you're looking for and you're more than likely going to get the highest rank you can that you meet the level requirements for so I mean that's a silly complaint and I think this dude's just complaining for the sake of complaining.
The whole spirit of Diablo is the item grind, there is no "Oh I've gotten my tier 3 time to wait for new content". That's WoW, not Diablo. The dude's obviously a WoW player I mean he's posting from his warlock. If you're complaining about items dropping I mean that's kind of a useless argument. Everything in every diablo ever is random. All the complaining people did in WoW made it what it is today where it's losing nearly all of its subscribers. Yeah there will be a lot of different runes and it'll be difficult to get the ones you want but by no means is it impossible. Again the runes will drop in increment of ranks so it's not fair to say Ogod there's seven ranks how do you expect me to go through all of those?! Well if you're only getting like... 2 types of runes per difficulty, where 7 is in Hell, you are really never dealing with the ranks. Like I guess that's weird to say but I won't be finding Rank 1 runes in Nightmare so it's not like that is going to be hell to get the highest rank ones you want.
Honestly the Diablo community so far has just annoyed the hell out of me. No one seems to understand the game's spirit and how it is played. Maybe the lot of you have been spoiled on WoW where everyone gets what they want for nothing, which is of course the same reason it's losing popularity. Diablo is in essence an unfair game. It's a grindfest and the rewards are great when you show dedication. There's a real sense of accomplishment and a distinction between the good and the bad players. I know you're all mad because you couldn't beat Duriel or whatever but Blizzard is being adamant on making this game as true to the originals as possible, they are not going to spoon feed you anymore.
I also advocate town skill swapping. The 6 skill system will not even work without limiting your freedom to switch abilities STRICTLY. Of course I think you should be able to swap them out as much as you want in town, just when you set out to a dungeon you MEANT to have those skills and can't just quickly swap out skills to save your ass.
Lastly, it is in beta and you, myself, your neighbor who has been playing Diablo since 2 and your friend who likes anime video games and hentai are not professional game designers and shouldn't try to pretend you know more than the developers who haven't developed them yet
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ha. Bagstone.
I was out of the loop, for some reasons.
This unnattuned rune system is full of flaws, indeed, and its a radical change.
I mean, if you can only swap out runes if you pop them out with the jeweler, runes are a great way to lock into a build and charge resources for a swap.
Maybe I missed a blue post on this...
Oh ok, yea they have this really bad unnatuned rune system now.
Like I said, I feel strongly that if it is indeed bad, they wont do it.
NO! IT'S BROKEN! I KNOW BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE IT.
Lol, this system is the only thing they have announced that hasn't sat well with me. The idea of farming runes in this fashion just doesn't SOUND fun. For all I know runes drop frequently so I have a good chance to find a few and pop them in, on the other hand runes may only drop from special mobs or bosses and it would be incredibly frustrating to find them especially on inferno where the mobs are so strong. But like you said, we shall see
If you swap an ability all its buff/debuffs are canceled. So no, you can't.
I think it will be easy to pick 6 skills to fit any situation without needing to swap every 5 mins so I'm fine with it being a town swap or a simple out-of-combat swap.
Official Blizzard Quote:
As a follow up, there's no concept of 'in combat' or 'out of combat' in the game, so that's not something we can just hook in to. There could be. We could take programming time dedicated to other features and design and build out a 'combat state' system, but that's programming time away from something else.
I guessssss in town will have to do... =/ I don't like it, no sir I don't. But it beats a super long CD.
edit: take that back, -cast time- with an on hit is canceled, that works.
You are welcome.
PS: The town thing would suck, but random colors is far far worse. I would gladly port to town if my runes were nor random color generated, and I was not forced to stash multiple alts with spare runes.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Don't give up hope yet. I NEED BASHIOK TO SEE THIS! (please help by liking my post!)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3278808594?page=11#219
all that going back to town does, is add a delay... we will wait for someone to go back to town, switch, come back via the banner, then wait for the next person to do it... thats not "locking" thats just an annoyin delay
added a link to my post.
What really irks me is that making players use the town portal to switch skills is counter-intuitive to their "Let the player stay in the action" philosophy. It's not so much the delay it causes that's a problem, but the fact that you have to go through the motions of casting the Stone, zoning back to town, switching skills, then zoning back.
It's going to really annoy players to have to go back to town to try a new skill every time they level up, considering you don't even get the Stone of Recall until level 6 or 7.
edit: done, also going to update my post on the first page in a min to try to get more people to vote like.
k ill like your post with both my accounts as well
I'm a bit surprised they're even considering more re-writes. Adding another state machine, aka some combat_state mechanism, with this much code already written, will take a non-trivial amount of retro-fitting. But that's not what worries me.. what worries me is shoe-horning feature functionality in mature code like that tends to cause boo-coo bugs, and THAT would likely gutshot the ship date.
I think it's highly unlikely they'll do that.
But honestly though, don't worry too much about the "programming time" thing. Bash mentions that devoting "programming time" to this feature will pull programming time away from other features... But at this stage of development, most of the programming time he's talking about is bug fixes.
-Thomas Jefferson
The whole spirit of Diablo is the item grind, there is no "Oh I've gotten my tier 3 time to wait for new content". That's WoW, not Diablo. The dude's obviously a WoW player I mean he's posting from his warlock. If you're complaining about items dropping I mean that's kind of a useless argument. Everything in every diablo ever is random. All the complaining people did in WoW made it what it is today where it's losing nearly all of its subscribers. Yeah there will be a lot of different runes and it'll be difficult to get the ones you want but by no means is it impossible. Again the runes will drop in increment of ranks so it's not fair to say Ogod there's seven ranks how do you expect me to go through all of those?! Well if you're only getting like... 2 types of runes per difficulty, where 7 is in Hell, you are really never dealing with the ranks. Like I guess that's weird to say but I won't be finding Rank 1 runes in Nightmare so it's not like that is going to be hell to get the highest rank ones you want.
Honestly the Diablo community so far has just annoyed the hell out of me. No one seems to understand the game's spirit and how it is played. Maybe the lot of you have been spoiled on WoW where everyone gets what they want for nothing, which is of course the same reason it's losing popularity. Diablo is in essence an unfair game. It's a grindfest and the rewards are great when you show dedication. There's a real sense of accomplishment and a distinction between the good and the bad players. I know you're all mad because you couldn't beat Duriel or whatever but Blizzard is being adamant on making this game as true to the originals as possible, they are not going to spoon feed you anymore.
I also advocate town skill swapping. The 6 skill system will not even work without limiting your freedom to switch abilities STRICTLY. Of course I think you should be able to swap them out as much as you want in town, just when you set out to a dungeon you MEANT to have those skills and can't just quickly swap out skills to save your ass.
Lastly, it is in beta and you, myself, your neighbor who has been playing Diablo since 2 and your friend who likes anime video games and hentai are not professional game designers and shouldn't try to pretend you know more than the developers who haven't developed them yet