Trash to my Wizard, I wouldn't use the item. There would be no benefit to me. It is trash in perspective, but one person's trash it another's treasure.
One thing to keep in mind in regard to items that don't fit your class is salvage. If higher level of materials to craft items can only come from the salvaging of higher level items, than that perfect gear for a Barb might be a viable trade as the item itself or its respective materials from salvaging.
Since there will be a randomness to the salvaging of items, than most likely you will see higher level materials be listed more frequently than items.
So what happens when i search in the proposed AH for 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 100%ED and i get 1K results? And i don't mean 1k identical swords, 'cause most will have additional affixes. I don't call that convenient either.
You look at item quality first, that would be my guess, if there are 1k Epic and Legendary items at that level then we have a totally different problem. At which point if your complaining I want to know the Utopian society your living in for this to remain a big issue.
Just to continue with this train of thought though, do you know any other prefix or suffixes you could use to narrow down your search. Maybe you can look at an item that is like what you want and add its affix to your query. This is actually a great concept to learn because it will help you learn how to narrow search queries in real life research.
Another point worth bring up. If there are 1000 items available with features you want then there can be a couple of reasons for that. They may be in high demand there for the stat your looking for is always put up, or they're there because people are trying to sell them and aren't finding buyers.
all i can say is that anyone against the auction house needs to take a class in econ 101/102.
we r playing a game, we r not doing economics.
we r trying to find out what would b more fun, not more logical or practical or better.
and part of playing this game is access to good items. And to gain access you can either waste time and
1) jump from game to game trying to find what your looking for, then offer whatever you have to try and get it.
2) grind endlessly trying to find your item, find other items that arent good for you and try to proceed to option 1
3) find items you may not need, put them in an auction house and exchange for gold. then use the gold to buy what you DO need at a reasonable price fixed by supply and demand.
clearly option 3 is better.
Simply, there will be a currency, either an item thats the perfect balance of rare, or gold. i feel gold is better.
in your opinion 3 is better.
"find items you may not need, put them in an auction house."
if everybody does that, then the auction house would be a huge pile or random useless items.
you'll even find very rare items in the thousands, which will drastically reduce the price of those very hard to find items
if we have a gold based currency.
That's not how economies work. If very rare items are available in the thousands, that means there are a proportionately large amount of people looking to buy them. Just because an AH exists doesn't make rare items less rare.
anyways, bashiok said:
Quote from »
We haven't made any announcements yet regarding trade systems, but it's something we'll be prepared to reveal soon™.
I think it's something people are going to be pretty psyched about, if not passionately indifferent.
I don't think we will see an auction house, it's not original, and I'm sure, that blizzard have thought about everything.
i'm very sure that we will probably still see face to face trading, but this time they will just encourage it by making it easier to find people to trade with.
few options are possible: we can brainstorm some of the possible ways they could do it:
1-they can make a website/forum like where you can login from everywhere even from work and you can trade stuff there without even having to start the game.
to keep it diabloish, they can sow you your inventory, and you can drag and drop your items in trade menus on a website. (that's doable)
2-special games where people can meet and trade (the market idea)
problem with this idea is that you don't know what people offer in each game, so they might probably make a system where you can see what the people in the game offer or even search items in a kind of search menu, and it will tell you what game to join or who is the owner of the item.
3-trading channels <- DII
this one is too old school for our todays standards so they will probably try to find another way.
a solution to this is the possibility to trade directly in trade channels, why not? they never said that we HAD to start a game to trade. it could be nice and save us some time.
3-an auction house like menu where you can see what people offer, but you can't buy from it, you can leave an offer in text form or drag and drop items from a chat inventory. he can see the offers people made, and can invite the people to a trade game to seal the deal.
or use option 2 and start a trade directly from the chat channels.
if you guys have other ideas, you can post them let's try to brainstorm it.
You are basically compiling a list of trading solutions that are less efficient than a regular AH. I can add one if you want: Let's have an AH like menu where you can see what people offer, but before you buy from it, you have to leave a message for them, at least 100 characters long, to promote social interaction.
I sincerely hope they don't implement something less efficient than an AH. I don't find it enjoyable arguing with stupid people about how much their stuff is worth. With an AH, I can show them how much their stuff is worth, and find the stuff I need a whole lot easier.
It may be wishful thinking on my part, but if I'm interpreting Bash's quote on psyched/passionately indifferent, an AH fits that statement pretty well.
So what happens when i search in the proposed AH for 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 100%ED and i get 1K results? And i don't mean 1k identical swords, 'cause most will have additional affixes. I don't call that convenient either.
This argument makes 0 sense. If you get 1k results, that simply means you have enough results that you can probably find exactly what you are looking for. That's a bad thing how?
What happens when I join a market type game looking for a 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 100%ED and I get 0 results? Do you like that better somehow?
If you would be content joining a market style game, finding a lvl 35-40 2h sword with 100%ED and some modifiers that are simply OK, then you should be content getting your 1k results on the AH, browsing through the first 20 to find something OK, and buying it.
I feel like a lot of the arguments against an auction house are either (1) nostalgia for D2's trading system and (2) WoW has an auction house so Diablo 3 should not have one.
I guess I can kind of understand the complaint of losing the personal part of trading with someone versus getting something from a list (kind of like the difference between going to a store and buying something versus buying it on eBay). I'd rather have the efficiency, though, especially since the rest of the game is supposed to be really cooperative.
With the 1K exapple i mean it'll take too long even for a quick glimpse over each item. No i'm not talking about uniques. That search may return some legendaries too, but lets say i don't have gold,so i'm stuck with just rares and blues. Now in this lvl range 35-40 there could be better blues because of their higher tier than some rares, which are included because of more affixes they have. And i'll get a nice soup of say blue and yellow rows in my search query.
Then how can i know what is the highest ED affix in this level range. If i search for 200 % ED i may skip unintentionally 35-39 range, cause it's no possible bellow ilvl 40. This is valid for other affixes. I have to make some pretty educated search to find optimal gear.
And i may end up searching in a price range.
I don't see the issue here. First you want a certain type of item, then find there are quite a few available with your simple definition. You bump up the initial variable and find that items within the the higher value is now too high. So you now know that 40 is overshooting . Well let's apply a limiter to the formula, you don't want anything above blues. Ok with that set and if 40 is too high let's set the ratio to 35-39. Your search query should look like this:
Search: weapon
Lvl range: 35-39
Quality: blue
Affix: ED 100%
Your results are now 600. Now let's browse through the first two pages, you see affixes that offer fire damage and another that has a proc spell. Lets make a new search:
Search: weapon
Lvl range: 35-39
Quality: blue
Affix: ED 100%
Affix: fire dmg
Affix: spell proc
Now my guess is you have 100 items of blues and greens. Please browse and see what you can afford.
all i can say is that anyone against the auction house needs to take a class in econ 101/102.
we r playing a game, we r not doing economics.
we r trying to find out what would b more fun, not more logical or practical or better.
and part of playing this game is access to good items. And to gain access you can either waste time and
1) jump from game to game trying to find what your looking for, then offer whatever you have to try and get it.
2) grind endlessly trying to find your item, find other items that arent good for you and try to proceed to option 1
3) find items you may not need, put them in an auction house and exchange for gold. then use the gold to buy what you DO need at a reasonable price fixed by supply and demand.
clearly option 3 is better.
Simply, there will be a currency, either an item thats the perfect balance of rare, or gold. i feel gold is better.
in your opinion 3 is better.
"find items you may not need, put them in an auction house."
if everybody does that, then the auction house would be a huge pile or random useless items.
you'll even find very rare items in the thousands, which will drastically reduce the price of those very hard to find items
if we have a gold based currency.
Funny how when you read "items you may not need", you think "crap items", while I think "good items but for other classes". I think my interpretation is closer to what he meant.
So what happens when i search in the proposed AH for 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 100%ED and i get 1K results? And i don't mean 1k identical swords, 'cause most will have additional affixes. I don't call that convenient either.
Okay, use filters to sort them, quality, affixes, etc, and most importantly price. If i saw a 1k of what i was looking for i would be thrilled since it would be cheap!
Now on the flip side lets look at a scenario without an auction house:
You need a 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 1%ED. You jump around games trying to find it, most people junk them or npc since they arent worth much. You finally find a guy who has it but is asking waay too much because essentially he has monopolized your need.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A Post Concerning The Real-Money Auction House:
"Except real money trading has always been present in Diablo 2. Except now it's going to be officially supported which will reduce scams, prevent the funding of the black market so your kids will no longer be exposed to dangerous life ruining drugs like the cancer causing marijuana."
Isn't that a flaw in every kind of open market based merchantry? Besides, depending on how categories are created, you could easily filter for what you are looking for and get satisfactory results.
Felreaver, I'm sorry but there must be no way to meet your needs. Since you can't even think of selecting the Brand you like before doing your search. If the brand doesn't offer all the features you need god forbid you get something with all the features your are looking for.
I'm sorry but as if now you're just making an argument because younwant one.
The biggest (still today) problem with Diablo II is that the game has no economy management. If you play during ladder resets and after you can clearly see how big of a flaw it is. Short story, Diablo III REQUIRES a stable economy system (akin to WoW) or else the game will become Diablo II again.
Let's be clear, ladder resets have not been about the race to 99 for a very long time. Even when we were giving out prizes for hitting 99 first, the purpose of the ladder reset has always been because the game has very few mechanics intended to stabilize the economy, and none of them are effective. By wiping the slate we can create a fresh economy that inevitably degrades until the next reset. We gotta find the point where the reset isn't cutting into people's progression, but also not dragging on so long everyone is bored. It's a tough balance to strike. Not everyone plays the same amount or the same way.
I vote we go with the Democratic/Progressive method. Everybody send all their stuff to me and I will re-distribute it to the masses based on what I think is needed. This solves everyones problems...
Auction houses are merely a way for the rich to get richer and exploit the underperforming masses. Perhaps we could have a tax that if you have more than 200,000 gold you have to pay to help the less fortunate players...
I vote we go with the Democratic/Progressive method. Everybody send all their stuff to me and I will re-distribute it to the masses based on what I think is needed. This solves everyones problems...
Auction houses are merely a way for the rich to get richer and exploit the underperforming masses. Perhaps we could have a tax that if you have more than 200,000 gold you have to pay to help the less fortunate players...
It was an attempt to bring a little levity to this poor over-hashed post. This post has been beaten to death already, and I just felt it time to stop whipping the dead horse.
I think this post proves that we will all just have to agree to disagree and live what what Bizz hands us. Of course you could be one of the imperialist, capatalist pigs who only live to exploit the masses! In which case Viva the Revolution you yankee dog! That was a joke BTW for the comedically impaired.
I vote we go with the Democratic/Progressive method. Everybody send all their stuff to me and I will re-distribute it to the masses based on what I think is needed. This solves everyones problems...
Auction houses are merely a way for the rich to get richer and exploit the underperforming masses. Perhaps we could have a tax that if you have more than 200,000 gold you have to pay to help the less fortunate players...
RokkitSerjun - that made me laugh, a lot. Its too bad that this comparison can't be used in debates right now - very clear way to see an obvious problem
My only gripe is that i know the AH system will have a big user group (regions instead of servers) so playing it like a fiddle will be harder than in WoW. Other than that i like the idea of an AH in d3 =)
An Ah is a great idea IMO, but an option to request face-time over the ah with a seller for item to item trading doesn't seem to be a bad idea.
The main problem i see with a single AH is that players are forced to make narrow searches in order to get mangeable results.
I'm a little confused... When you say the words "narrow" and "mangeable" (lol) aren't they synonymous with each other? Like a narrow search range gives you a narrow range of results? Did you slip something in my water? Wait let me test this... I'll just say the opinion you implied and see if it's more or less crazy than this.
"The main benefit i see without a single AH is that players are forced to make broad searches in order to get results, manageable or not. Usually for hours at a time."
Felreaver, Your problem there could be listed by being able to search/sort for more than one filter.
For instance, lets say you search for 95-105% ED weapons/swords/whatever, and then there is a column or additional filter you can apply that shows leech, which you can then sort by secondarily such that you sort for ED, then LL so that the first 4 swords on your search are all 103% ED, then sorted by LL.
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Since there will be a randomness to the salvaging of items, than most likely you will see higher level materials be listed more frequently than items.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
You look at item quality first, that would be my guess, if there are 1k Epic and Legendary items at that level then we have a totally different problem. At which point if your complaining I want to know the Utopian society your living in for this to remain a big issue.
Just to continue with this train of thought though, do you know any other prefix or suffixes you could use to narrow down your search. Maybe you can look at an item that is like what you want and add its affix to your query. This is actually a great concept to learn because it will help you learn how to narrow search queries in real life research.
That's not how economies work. If very rare items are available in the thousands, that means there are a proportionately large amount of people looking to buy them. Just because an AH exists doesn't make rare items less rare.
You are basically compiling a list of trading solutions that are less efficient than a regular AH. I can add one if you want: Let's have an AH like menu where you can see what people offer, but before you buy from it, you have to leave a message for them, at least 100 characters long, to promote social interaction.
I sincerely hope they don't implement something less efficient than an AH. I don't find it enjoyable arguing with stupid people about how much their stuff is worth. With an AH, I can show them how much their stuff is worth, and find the stuff I need a whole lot easier.
It may be wishful thinking on my part, but if I'm interpreting Bash's quote on psyched/passionately indifferent, an AH fits that statement pretty well.
This argument makes 0 sense. If you get 1k results, that simply means you have enough results that you can probably find exactly what you are looking for. That's a bad thing how?
What happens when I join a market type game looking for a 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 100%ED and I get 0 results? Do you like that better somehow?
If you would be content joining a market style game, finding a lvl 35-40 2h sword with 100%ED and some modifiers that are simply OK, then you should be content getting your 1k results on the AH, browsing through the first 20 to find something OK, and buying it.
I guess I can kind of understand the complaint of losing the personal part of trading with someone versus getting something from a list (kind of like the difference between going to a store and buying something versus buying it on eBay). I'd rather have the efficiency, though, especially since the rest of the game is supposed to be really cooperative.
I don't see the issue here. First you want a certain type of item, then find there are quite a few available with your simple definition. You bump up the initial variable and find that items within the the higher value is now too high. So you now know that 40 is overshooting . Well let's apply a limiter to the formula, you don't want anything above blues. Ok with that set and if 40 is too high let's set the ratio to 35-39. Your search query should look like this:
Search: weapon
Lvl range: 35-39
Quality: blue
Affix: ED 100%
Your results are now 600. Now let's browse through the first two pages, you see affixes that offer fire damage and another that has a proc spell. Lets make a new search:
Search: weapon
Lvl range: 35-39
Quality: blue
Affix: ED 100%
Affix: fire dmg
Affix: spell proc
Now my guess is you have 100 items of blues and greens. Please browse and see what you can afford.
Atleast someone understood what i was typing....
Okay, use filters to sort them, quality, affixes, etc, and most importantly price. If i saw a 1k of what i was looking for i would be thrilled since it would be cheap!
Now on the flip side lets look at a scenario without an auction house:
You need a 35-40 lvl 2h sword with 1%ED. You jump around games trying to find it, most people junk them or npc since they arent worth much. You finally find a guy who has it but is asking waay too much because essentially he has monopolized your need.
"Except real money trading has always been present in Diablo 2. Except now it's going to be officially supported which will reduce scams, prevent the funding of the black market so your kids will no longer be exposed to dangerous life ruining drugs like the cancer causing marijuana."
I'm sorry but as if now you're just making an argument because younwant one.
Source: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27800609851&postId=277980480729&sid=3000#36
Auction houses are merely a way for the rich to get richer and exploit the underperforming masses. Perhaps we could have a tax that if you have more than 200,000 gold you have to pay to help the less fortunate players...
Please explain how what you just typed worked.
I think this post proves that we will all just have to agree to disagree and live what what Bizz hands us. Of course you could be one of the imperialist, capatalist pigs who only live to exploit the masses! In which case Viva the Revolution you yankee dog! That was a joke BTW for the comedically impaired.
RokkitSerjun - that made me laugh, a lot. Its too bad that this comparison can't be used in debates right now - very clear way to see an obvious problem
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I'm a little confused... When you say the words "narrow" and "mangeable" (lol) aren't they synonymous with each other? Like a narrow search range gives you a narrow range of results? Did you slip something in my water? Wait let me test this... I'll just say the opinion you implied and see if it's more or less crazy than this.
"The main benefit i see without a single AH is that players are forced to make broad searches in order to get results, manageable or not. Usually for hours at a time."
Nope. You're insane.
For instance, lets say you search for 95-105% ED weapons/swords/whatever, and then there is a column or additional filter you can apply that shows leech, which you can then sort by secondarily such that you sort for ED, then LL so that the first 4 swords on your search are all 103% ED, then sorted by LL.