The AH is a blessing and a curse. I've used it, simply because with all the gear affix roll possibilities, I've rarely found upgrades. With that said, It also unfortunately gives you the illusion that you're never finding good drops, simply because you've got great gear already. You can certainly find decent drops, but they may just not be an upgrade for what you use. I try to avoid using the AH when possible, but from where my current gear is at, I'm only going to get so many upgrades from self-found gear..as opposed to shelling out a few billion gold.
Back in D2 with no shared stash or wealth it was clear to define, one char for himself and that was it.
In D3, I would say selffound is anything I find on my account. But there certainly are people who say each char for itself, as well as people who think selling in the AH would be ok etc etc.
For example, I play a not-selfound character, I sell something for 200m gold, then I use that gold to upgrade gems in my selfound character, then that character becomes indirectly and immediately not-selfound.
Otherwise, you would be cheating yourself.
A way to revert this status of not-selfoundness, is to get rid of your gold whatever you want (like dropping items in the floor that you previously bought in the AH) and start over.
I understand your line of thinking, but it just doesn't hold up as a hard-and-fast rule.
Take the following for instance:
I have a self-found character [A] and a non-self-found character [B] on the same account.
I have 100 million gold from picking stuff up and vendoring it.
B sells a perfect Mempo for 750 million, bringing my stash up to 850 million.
If A never spends touches that 750 million (ie: the only toon that takes the stash under 750 million is the AH toon), what's the big deal? He hasn't dipped into AH gold.
This also applies to the stash. If you somehow used AH gold on your first toon to buy stash spots, that means your whole account is not self-found from now on? That might sound LOGICAL, but it's really just being stupidly restrictive. Some people choose to go self-found after they already played a toon and used the AH. Are you somehow supposed to "erase" all your gold, your stash and artisan progress? Are you somehow supposed to audit yourself and figure out a way to remove the non-self-found gold and then continue? Are you seriously telling me that once you sell an item on the AH you have to go start a new account?
Aside from being completely un-verifiable, it's heavy-handed and arbitrary.
If B buys some items on the AH which helps him go from MP1 to MP 7, do you have to audit out the gold differential in those piles so that A can't touch "that" gold? Where does the stupidity end and common sense take over? People play this shit for fun, not to have a bunch of nerds on the forums telling them that their definition of "self-found" isn't hardcore enough.
Does self-found mean you have to play with other self-found characters? If you play with an AH toon aren't their AH purchases directly assisting you?
How do you "enforce" any of this? It's easy for a player to not use the AH and not trade. That's something they ultimately have control over. But all this other shit, you are setting up a system where someone can't even join a public game because they're afraid that some jerk on the internet will tell them they're not self-found anymore.
Of course, technically it could work, but it doesn't feel very functional, don't know.
Blizzard should implement a no-AH mode, and that's all.
Selfound for me is when you haven't used the AH and not traded with anyone outside the group you are farming with. The last thing probably isn't that easy to implement, but that's my definition.
Getting a good drop that one of your friends you are farming with can't use would just be stupid.
This is pretty much my personal definition of how I played D2 and how I had most fun (despite trading with friends I never managed to get any high runes or end-game uniques).
In terms of implementation, however, Blizzard could only do one of these:
1) Create self-found servers that don't allow you to use the AH; there would be 4 separate servers then (SC, HC, SC-noAH, HC-noAH). Don't think that's gonna happen, but I would take these, in particular if trading would still be allowed.
2) The simple solution would be a built-in Ironborn function: when you create a character, there's a checkbox for "Ironborn", and if you choose to create such a character, it has no access to the AH, but also no access to any trading with other players, it can't pick up items that other players drop, nor can it use the shared stash on your account. This would likely be easier to implement, but obviously adhere to the more strict definition of self-found (the one that I don't share). I probably wouldn't play there, sounds too restrictive to me.
Selfound for me is when you haven't used the AH and not traded with anyone outside the group you are farming with. The last thing probably isn't that easy to implement, but that's my definition.
Getting a good drop that one of your friends you are farming with can't use would just be stupid.
The above way is mostly how I played D2, not because I wanted to play with any artificial restrictions, I just didn't bother with trading, except between the friends I played with. I never really play with randoms in general.
Actually Blizzard could use a solution from WoW (gasp!) if they wanted to achieve something like this in an "ironborn mode"- which I guess they dont.
In WoW soul-bound items from dungeons can be traded within 2 hours after they dropped, but only to the other people who were in the group/participated in the kill when the item dropped.
I dont think an "ironborn mode" should allow unlimited trading just without AH though. Sure it would be different than current servers since AH trading is so convenient, but lots of trading would simply move to third parties, and then it wouldnt be self-found servers anymore, except for people who decided themselves to play that way = not much difference at all.
Self found = no AH and no trade with other players.
Everything else is allowed, I thought it was crystal clear.
It is. People are just making it very hard for themselves.
what about other toons on the same account? I was under the impression that toon sharing is not allowed at regardless if the other toon is self-found also?
I thought it was gold and items you found on your own, no vendor bought, AH bought, traded in any form. Crafted yes as long as gold and mats are all from that specific character playtime.
Blizzard should implement a no-AH mode, and that's all.
While I also like this idea, how long do you think it'd be before items from the non-AH server were being sold for real money on a 3rd-party site? I hate to say it, but I think that would happen very quickly.
Also, I bet a lot of people would want "increased drop rates" or something of the like to "compensate" for the lack of an AH (contrary to the whole point of a non-AH server, I know, but it would happen), and soon enough the non-AH server would be seen as the easy server (hah).
I mean, would YOU re-roll on a non-AH server if itemization changed so that, say, each item can only roll one main stat (not including vitality)?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
Indeed.
I doubt I would play a self-found mode without improvements to itemization and drops.
I simply wouldnt play any modes.
It would be just fine/better if the improvements are general, and not specifically for self-found mode. That would feel a bit weird. I can't see Blizzard every doing such a thing.
I mean, would YOU re-roll on a non-AH server if itemization changed so that, say, each item can only roll one main stat (not including vitality)?
Yes.
And no, increased drop rates on a no-AH server would not defeat the purpose. The purpose of a no-AH isn't to be some sort of an e-peen enlarging mode where things are more difficult; it's supposed to be a place where farming for your own loot is the most efficient way of getting said loot. Increased drop rates would sweeten the deal, not defeat the purpose.
I guess I was thinking that there are a lot of players (myself not included, actually) who would look at a change like this one as altering the "purity" or "original intent" of the game and/or its difficulty; there are still folks who'd like the difficulty as it was back at release. What about if itemization was exactly the same on AH vs. non-AH servers, but drop rates were increased on the latter; would you (anybody, not trying to single out maka) re-roll then?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
Of course, in the current status of the game playing self-found is not a great experience, yet, is better than using the AH.
ahh, i dont think thats true. HC is still holding up on self found items, and gold AH.
I've also put up a challenge on US forums for mp10 leveling on SC with no AH. Its been fun actully. im already lvl 55 on my monk on self found items.
The goal is to beat diablo inferno on self found items.
oh btw, this has been done many times before. It IS do-able. People just have no patience for anything, and they have no control over themselves. See a upgrade weapon for 10 bucks? SURE you'll buy it , you enjoy it, then the farming stops. Which is the whole point of the game. Killing lots of demons, and a hunt for loot.
I'm playing no-AH since release so just give me no-AH servers and I'd be happy.
Unfortunately I don't think Blizz will do this any sooner than expansion, if ever.
I'm playing no-AH since release so just give me no-AH servers and I'd be happy.
Unfortunately I don't think Blizz will do this any sooner than expansion, if ever.
Thats pretty cool if thats true! ;O
Idunno about "NO AH" but what if there was a ladder realm with no RMAH. I think that would be cooler. However eventhough i havent sold more than 10 bucks on RMAH, and i play HC more. i still like the idea of RMAH.
RMAH it's not as bad as goldAH, it provides a safer environment for those players that are willing to spend real money on items which in D2 used to trade on 3rd party or worse..
Problem is (IMO) both AH's greatly influence:
1. the drop perception by players ( "I cannot find anything good!", "Loot is crap in this game", etc ) AND devs (crappy legendaries)
2. Game difficulty perception by players ("This game is too easy!" or "To beat this game without AH is impossible, Blizz made it so you have to use AH" which led to decreasing overall difficulty)
3. possible changes to the game mechanics (increase drop ratio will flood tha AH, removing/changing stats on gear will make some items overpowered or obsolete thus causing great criticism from the players who have spent real money to buy stuff, etc)
4. give some players the false impression that playing this game is a way to make money while it should be to have fun, alone or with friends.
That's why back then I choose to play "self found": the game last longer, it's more challenging, you find upgrades more often and once in a while you get a big happy surprise.
Guess I went a little off topic, this topic is not about AH but I'm trying to explain myself and my choice.
Self-found, technically means just what it implies. You found it yourself, without the aide of another individual. In the most basic sense, a character running on self-found has no items that have been obtained through any sort of trading, whether that be through the AH or in-game trading through either players or NPC merchants.
However, when I run a character based off self-found, I add the exception of trading in-game with both players and NPC merchants because my goal is really to ignore the AH, and try to keep the aspects that I enjoyed about D2 intact (basically in-game trading). The reason I'm okay with trading with players in-game is because it's a whole different ballpark. Items that you want are harder to find, but it allows you to be versatile by being able to trade items, haggle, and actually talk to the individual. As far as NPC merchants go, I see no issue with them because they only sell things that are (sometimes) useful if you are down on your luck or just rolling a new character.
Really, I guess I would describe my "self-found" characters as "none of that AH shit" characters.
For me self found is only gearing up with the items, materials and gold you found while playing the game.
No AH trading (buying or Selling), Trading within a group is ok imo as long as you helped kill that monsters that dropped the loot you are about to accept.
I also feel that Vendor gear should count as self found since vendors were designed to fill small itemization holes drops and crafting cant fill and most of the good vendors are found through gameplay.
I call my HC toon self found. I only use items I find in the game / off vendors, and traded items with my friends who do the same. I sell on the AH, but I don't buy. It may not be the 'purist' way, but it comes down to that I don't buy off the AH, or trade with people other than my friends.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Nothing auction house related.. (I consider things you found in a party as "Self found" aswell...)
Back in D2 with no shared stash or wealth it was clear to define, one char for himself and that was it.
In D3, I would say selffound is anything I find on my account. But there certainly are people who say each char for itself, as well as people who think selling in the AH would be ok etc etc.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Of course, technically it could work, but it doesn't feel very functional, don't know.
Blizzard should implement a no-AH mode, and that's all.
Amen.
I wasn't a huge fan of this idea in the beginning, but right now I'd take it.
This is pretty much my personal definition of how I played D2 and how I had most fun (despite trading with friends I never managed to get any high runes or end-game uniques).
In terms of implementation, however, Blizzard could only do one of these:
1) Create self-found servers that don't allow you to use the AH; there would be 4 separate servers then (SC, HC, SC-noAH, HC-noAH). Don't think that's gonna happen, but I would take these, in particular if trading would still be allowed.
2) The simple solution would be a built-in Ironborn function: when you create a character, there's a checkbox for "Ironborn", and if you choose to create such a character, it has no access to the AH, but also no access to any trading with other players, it can't pick up items that other players drop, nor can it use the shared stash on your account. This would likely be easier to implement, but obviously adhere to the more strict definition of self-found (the one that I don't share). I probably wouldn't play there, sounds too restrictive to me.
Actually Blizzard could use a solution from WoW (gasp!) if they wanted to achieve something like this in an "ironborn mode"- which I guess they dont.
In WoW soul-bound items from dungeons can be traded within 2 hours after they dropped, but only to the other people who were in the group/participated in the kill when the item dropped.
I dont think an "ironborn mode" should allow unlimited trading just without AH though. Sure it would be different than current servers since AH trading is so convenient, but lots of trading would simply move to third parties, and then it wouldnt be self-found servers anymore, except for people who decided themselves to play that way = not much difference at all.
I thought it was gold and items you found on your own, no vendor bought, AH bought, traded in any form. Crafted yes as long as gold and mats are all from that specific character playtime.
Also, I bet a lot of people would want "increased drop rates" or something of the like to "compensate" for the lack of an AH (contrary to the whole point of a non-AH server, I know, but it would happen), and soon enough the non-AH server would be seen as the easy server (hah).
I mean, would YOU re-roll on a non-AH server if itemization changed so that, say, each item can only roll one main stat (not including vitality)?
I doubt I would play a self-found mode without improvements to itemization and drops.
I simply wouldnt play any modes.
It would be just fine/better if the improvements are general, and not specifically for self-found mode. That would feel a bit weird. I can't see Blizzard every doing such a thing.
ahh, i dont think thats true. HC is still holding up on self found items, and gold AH.
I've also put up a challenge on US forums for mp10 leveling on SC with no AH. Its been fun actully. im already lvl 55 on my monk on self found items.
The goal is to beat diablo inferno on self found items.
oh btw, this has been done many times before. It IS do-able. People just have no patience for anything, and they have no control over themselves. See a upgrade weapon for 10 bucks? SURE you'll buy it , you enjoy it, then the farming stops. Which is the whole point of the game. Killing lots of demons, and a hunt for loot.
Unfortunately I don't think Blizz will do this any sooner than expansion, if ever.
Thats pretty cool if thats true! ;O
Idunno about "NO AH" but what if there was a ladder realm with no RMAH. I think that would be cooler. However eventhough i havent sold more than 10 bucks on RMAH, and i play HC more. i still like the idea of RMAH.
Problem is (IMO) both AH's greatly influence:
1. the drop perception by players ( "I cannot find anything good!", "Loot is crap in this game", etc ) AND devs (crappy legendaries)
2. Game difficulty perception by players ("This game is too easy!" or "To beat this game without AH is impossible, Blizz made it so you have to use AH" which led to decreasing overall difficulty)
3. possible changes to the game mechanics (increase drop ratio will flood tha AH, removing/changing stats on gear will make some items overpowered or obsolete thus causing great criticism from the players who have spent real money to buy stuff, etc)
4. give some players the false impression that playing this game is a way to make money while it should be to have fun, alone or with friends.
That's why back then I choose to play "self found": the game last longer, it's more challenging, you find upgrades more often and once in a while you get a big happy surprise.
Guess I went a little off topic, this topic is not about AH but I'm trying to explain myself and my choice.
However, when I run a character based off self-found, I add the exception of trading in-game with both players and NPC merchants because my goal is really to ignore the AH, and try to keep the aspects that I enjoyed about D2 intact (basically in-game trading). The reason I'm okay with trading with players in-game is because it's a whole different ballpark. Items that you want are harder to find, but it allows you to be versatile by being able to trade items, haggle, and actually talk to the individual. As far as NPC merchants go, I see no issue with them because they only sell things that are (sometimes) useful if you are down on your luck or just rolling a new character.
Really, I guess I would describe my "self-found" characters as "none of that AH shit" characters.
No AH trading (buying or Selling), Trading within a group is ok imo as long as you helped kill that monsters that dropped the loot you are about to accept.
I also feel that Vendor gear should count as self found since vendors were designed to fill small itemization holes drops and crafting cant fill and most of the good vendors are found through gameplay.