I'm not offended... Videogames were much better before... So, I often play even older and uglyer games.. and even if smoothed by emulators such as dosbox, 320x240 games are quite ugly compared to d2 I already answered that in another thread... I smooth d2 a bit by custimizing gfx card shaders settings, and I play d2 windowed, so it feels less "Pixelated" than in full screen (and it's not stretched in widescreen)
But that's still a choice... I give priority to gameplay enjoyability instead of gfx...
If you feel d3 feels just like diablo, good for you, enjoy it... but I'd be curious to see if you still have that opinion in ~3 months or if at that point, like me, you'll feel it's "Just another h'n's game".
I too often gravitate toward more antiquated games. Which is partly why D3 appeals to me. The overhead 3rd person view is rife with old school arcade feel. Marrying that to modern 3d graphics is nothing short of awesome.
I hate to hear fans of the franchise espousing dislike for the new title. It kinda saddens me to know that some folks waited all that time only to be let down.
As to D3; I can only see it getting better. With continuing tweaking from player feedback, the implementation of PvP and some expansions, this game has nowhere to go but up. Up from a point that I am utterly happy with.
Stop and breathe for a second, then realize that people's good memories of D2 included the expansion pack and the years to follow - not the initial launch of D2. D3 has been out for just over a month, with tons of room for growth in pvm, pvp, story, lore, etc. Just like D2 grew from it's launch, so will D3. If people can't be patient and decide to quit, good riddance.
there was this comment on The Old Republic from a poster that is a retort to your argument.
someone puts out let's say some old Ford and over the years add in new stuff and it becomes a mercedes SLR with all the bells and whistles.
then that same company comes out and say that they are putting out a new car that is supposed to be the next in line after the Mercedes SLR.
but when that car came out it does not have most of the features of the SLR, sits less people, always breaking down etc.
are people gonna be happy about it and go but it took decades before that old Ford became the SLR and wait decades for it to improve or would they pissed about it?
D3 is not supposed to be compared to vanilla unpatched D2, it should be compared to the current version of D2
D3 is not supposed to be compared to vanilla unpatched D2, it should be compared to the current version of D2
OK...compare them. Outdated graphics and sound. Bugs, lag, hacks dupes......farming can only be done in a handful of tiresome areas. Leveling can only be done in one of two areas. D2 was easy as pie, could run through the entire game, all 3 difficulties, in only one day. PvP was a disorganized mess of imbalanced spew.
This is an entirely new program, far more advanced than D2. You have to expect many tweaks and screws to be turned. It's intellectually dishonest to claim that it's fair to compare a game that had been tweaked, patched and expanded over the course of 12 years to a game that was released only about a month ago. There are new classes and new skills, much different than D2. Yet you still expect there to be no need for tweaks?
That's laughable and foolish.
D3 is hands down way better than D2 already, and it's still in it's infancy.
D3 is not supposed to be compared to vanilla unpatched D2, it should be compared to the current version of D2
Of course, they're their own game.
But it's ridiculous to assume that a fresh-out-of-the-box game will have the same amount of "funness" as a game that's been iterated on for years and years, isn't it? At some point several years of community feedback does have some outcome on the "quality" of the game.
Let's use ToR as an example. What was a reasonable expectation of ToR? That it would be WoW + 3 expansions + better? Or that it would be a MMO that looked at WoW and tried to improve upon it where they could? Was it reasonable to say that ToR shouldn't have issues that WoW had over its 7 year lifespan? Or was it reasonable to say that the development team should have tried to learn as much as they could in an attempt to avoid the same pitfalls?
Quite literally, what you're saying is that D3 should have no errors that occured in D2, at all, ever, even though it's prettymuch an entirely different development team working on it who may not have had intimate working knowledge of the D2 development process.
While I feel that the D3 team should have taken significant knowledge from D2 and applied it to D3, I don't feel that it's fair to compare a fully mature game to an infant game either. I think the truth lies somewhere in the grey, and not in the black and white that most people want to see (fanboy or hater, no inbetween).
This is an entirely new program, far more advanced than D2.
Agree.
You said it... THAT's the point... (i'd add "far much simplist" but that's just my opinion)
I (and I think many other people) wouldn't be so unforgiving over this game if it was not named "Diablo"... It's not a Diablo game, it's an entirely new game, just as you said.
D3 is not supposed to be compared to vanilla unpatched D2, it should be compared to the current version of D2
Yes it's supposed to be compared because people can't let go of D2. D2 had an expansion, which grew the story, the 'world' with new zones, gear, and other features. D3 vanilla has laid a foundation with a story that can be expanded, the world can expand, gear that can be expanded, pvp, etc. There is nothing better from the current version of D2 that is remotely better than D3 vanilla. (Edit- I liked the old chat system in D2. That's the only thing better from D2)
People expect everything from the start, and that's the problem. WoW didn't have everything in vanilla, Everquest didn't have its 180,000 expansions built into vanilla, and Diablo 2 did not either.
Edit #2- I have no issue with people loving D2 because I do too, but I'm sorry, it doesn't hold a candle to D3. I get an hour, maybe 2 a night to relax and do some gaming. D3 has the perfect balance of action and risk vs. reward for me to step away from MMO gaming forever and not miss it for a single moment.
It is not nostalgia when people like me just played D2 recently.
it is not nostalgia that i can play my D2 Single player without lag or server down times,
it is not nostalgia that i can mod and edit my D2 SP game
it is not nostalgia that i can upgrade the equipment for my character from drops alone in D2 and do not need to trading or use the AH to upgrade them
I played it recently too. It was a bad version of D3, with some cool features gaining via expansion.
I don't have lag, and don't mind server maintenance for a game far superior, with far fewer hacks/cheats.
If you have to mod and otherwise screw with the game to make it fun (over out-of-the-box gameplay), that should tell you something. D2 required an expansion before it was more than meh. Hell, I stopped playing it until LoD for that reason.
You can upgrade from drops in D3, or trade of /trade, or use the AH. This is such a bullshit argument.
Yeah you're right, D2 isn't good... it sucks !
Just stay on d3 servers and have fun with your max-4-players game, don't even think about trying d2, you won't like it ! D3 is just perfect for you... And blizzard need you to think D3 was successfull after all, so keep supporting them
And leave us nostalgic players on d2 servers we'll have more bandwidth and less lag eventually without all of you around... And if you really wanna try another game than d3, just go to WoW, it's perfect for you !
It doesn't suck, it just ain't as good as you claim it is. Reality is you don't like D3, but instead of having the balls to admit it and move on, you wan't to poison as many other people as you can first.
i havent played D2 and Diablo 3 was a lot of fun until i hit inferno, inferno gives challenge and almost no reward so i went from 10 hours per day of D3 to a max of 2 hours, some days i dont even play it and sometimes when i do i just browse AH for bargains that i can resell to get more money and eventually better gear because in the end Diablo is about getting best gear possible.
D2 was the same way, you farmed for gear, or you traded for gear. Of course, in this regard, D2 *was* better - because everyone duped the best gear anyways, so it was available cheap, and easily. Of course, all the D2 proponents here will immediately claim :I NEVER DID THAT". Just like the guilty do.
The nostalgia excuse generally comes from people who weren't addicted to Diablo II. There were a ton of people addicted to Diablo II and I'm sorry if you weren't one of them, but don't tell other people who remember the game quite clearly that "memory just works like that." So because someone's opinion on D2 is different than yours it must be because of nostalgia. Oh, okay. Makes complete sense now where all the nostalgia preachers are coming from.
Exactly right. People who don't have an irrational attraction to something *DO* see it more clearly than people who are addicted. That is how addiction works. You are convinced you have to have something, that without that thing, nothing else is worthy, that any replacements just don't match up. If you were addicted to 1 dollar bills, and someone took them and replaced them with 5 dollar bills - you would wan't the 1 dollar bills back.
Moaku - I played it right before launch, to get a feel for what changed. And almost everything did for the better, minus issue that have been working on. And D2 at launch was every bit as broken as D3 is. Remember the 1.1 patch? Of course not, or else you would see how silly your diatribe looks. Yes, D2 1.1, when they nerfed or entirely crippled systems to stop OP builds and exploitative mechanics. Ah, excepting that now it is *your* memory blocking something out to support *your* point.
Seriously - if it isn't what you wanted, you have the option of *constructively* making your feelings known, or getting the hell out of here. Douchebag rants whose only intent is to try and inflame the community, as opposed to well-presented complaints on how to make the game better give away your hand. You don't want it fixed, you just want it to burn to the ground to sate your *misguided* anger.
This is an entirely new program, far more advanced than D2.
Agree.
You said it... THAT's the point... (i'd add "far much simplist" but that's just my opinion)
I (and I think many other people) wouldn't be so unforgiving over this game if it was not named "Diablo"... It's not a Diablo game, it's an entirely new game, just as you said.
I wouldn't want D2 part 2. I wanted Diablo 3.
The devs wanted to create an entirely new game that felt, played and executed like Diablo.
D3 feels just like Diablo to me. It's everything I hoped it would be....and more.
I don't understand this sentiment? How, EXACTLY, is D3 not like Diablo? Be specific, please. I keep hearing people parrot this remark and I simply don't get it.
Moaku - I played it right before launch, to get a feel for what changed. And almost everything did for the better, minus issue that have been working on. And D2 at launch was every bit as broken as D3 is. Remember the 1.1 patch? Of course not, or else you would see how silly your diatribe looks. Yes, D2 1.1, when they nerfed or entirely crippled systems to stop OP builds and exploitative mechanics. Ah, excepting that now it is *your* memory blocking something out to support *your* point.
Yeah, of course I don't remember 1.1 patch, there never was a 1.1 patch, there was an 1.10 (you know... after 09 comes 10...)... It added a lot of stuff and balanced the game, especially summoning classes if I remember correctly... It was not exactly a nerf... Necromancer for example could summon more skells in 1.09, but they were also weaker... It was balancing, not nerfing and ruining the game experience...
They sure fixed some exploitable mechanichs, but not those who many players loved... D2 wouldn't be D2 without diaruns in classic and baalruns in exp for example... and in the start, that was an unexpected exploitable mechanics...
That was the greatest patch ever for d2 if you ask me because it calmed down botters and duppers for a bit, even if not stopping them permanently...
Better do your homeworks before accusing someone's memory... mine is working quite well
It doesn't suck, it just ain't as good as you claim it is. Reality is you don't like D3, but instead of having the balls to admit it and move on, you wan't to poison as many other people as you can first.
I don't have the balls to admit it ? I admit that constantly ! Lack of homeworks once again ?
And as I stated in a previous post, good for you if you enjoy it... but I don't
EDIT: I still keep hope that when an expansion is released it will improve things to a decent level of comparaison with d2, but unlike with the base game, I won't blindly prebuy it... But if you know a better ways for your hopes get realised and frustrations get fixed than making hear your opinion out with constructive arguments like I'm trying to do, I'm all listening
I don't understand this sentiment? How, EXACTLY, is D3 not like Diablo? Be specific, please. I keep hearing people parrot this remark and I simply don't get it.
Stop and breathe for a second, then realize that people's good memories of D2 included the expansion pack and the years to follow - not the initial launch of D2. D3 has been out for just over a month, with tons of room for growth in pvm, pvp, story, lore, etc. Just like D2 grew from it's launch, so will D3. If people can't be patient and decide to quit, good riddance.
there was this comment on The Old Republic from a poster that is a retort to your argument.
someone puts out let's say some old Ford and over the years add in new stuff and it becomes a mercedes SLR with all the bells and whistles.
then that same company comes out and say that they are putting out a new car that is supposed to be the next in line after the Mercedes SLR.
but when that car came out it does not have most of the features of the SLR, sits less people, always breaking down etc.
are people gonna be happy about it and go but it took decades before that old Ford became the SLR and wait decades for it to improve or would they pissed about it?
D3 is not supposed to be compared to vanilla unpatched D2, it should be compared to the current version of D2
I've seen this crap before, and it exposes many gamers complete lack of understanding or insight into game development.
Your car analogy only applies when you keep taking the base model and improving on it. Not the base *CONCEPT*, but the physical representation of it that can be driven. You get the 2000 model, and it is cool. 2001 gets new wheels, and a fantastic stereo. 2002 gets a spoiler and a sunroof.
And then 2005 arrives - a redesign of the classic! The body changes, wider wheelbase, different stereo, no more spoiler. And for the next couple years, recall notices or warranty trips for stuff that worked on your 2001, but not the new model. And it is made at a new factory who have never made this model, so they have to learn the ropes before they can become efficient and make fewer mistakes.
Gaming is very much the same, but your initial premise/analogy was wrong due to your lack of understanding.
Diablo 2 gets created. NOTE: Diablo 2 doesn't start based on the current in-use game code for Diablo 1. Some bits and pieces of the backend may get ported, but for the most part (and especially 12 years back), a new game engine required almost completely new code to harness it. Lessons learned (in regards to gameplay and systems) are carried over, new features added, less liked features removed. Bugs get fixed, game gets patched, expansions get added. Yay!
Diablo 3 gets created. Again, doesn't get created off of the Diablo 2 base code, and after so many years, wouldn't even be viable as far as creating a competitive product using the features of modern computing systems. Not created by the same team, so while the features and systems are well-known, the *creation* and programming of them is not.
And make no mistake - understanding of a game *features/systems* in now way translates into the ability to program said systems.
To summarize -
Make - Ford - Blizzard
Model - Mustang - Diablo
Year - 2000/2005/2012 - 1/2/3 (those years are random FYI)
The car and the game have different model years, with defining features as well as new changes. New model years will have things that are broken, and get fixed. Both models will have features you can add improve over time. Many times changes in models or builders result in unexpected changes due to the relearning of otherwise well-known systems.
--------------EDIT--------------
Moaku - your memory only works well in reference to remembering a patch with significant negative changes to D2 as positive (the community also agreed), and similar changes to D3 as negative. As for patch numbering, I make that mistake all the time with numbers. Being a maths guy, 1.10 and 1.1 are the same thing.
Don't take partial comments to respond to. You have the balls to spout your vitriol all over the forums here. You don't have the balls to move without causing as much damage as possible.
To be fair - I just went and read the post you linked above, and it was great, in regards to constructive criticism. And then you got to the end, which had the same conclusion almost every other of yours has - I don't like D3, I am not going to play it. Just going to sticking around and try and hurt the game as much as possible.
Being a maths guy, 1.10 and 1.1 are the same thing.
Being dev+code guy, I can ensure you it's not the same thing... versionning is not maths, sorry
If you're hurt by my posts, just don't read them... but as some old says that "only truth hurts"... I'm not doing this to hurt anyone, i'm doing this for the game to improve in the future.
(EDIT: Typo)
I agree with jay. For me, doing meph-runs was NOT fun, the fun part was the lottery like feeling when I saw what loot I got.
Right.... when loot dropped in D2, it was fun. Doing a meph run itself wasn't fun... D3 has the edge when it comes to what content you farm. However, the loot in D3 is so dull and boring that it doesn't feel exciting. Yes, crap dropped in D2 as well but not at the extremely high rate of D3 drops. Sometimes playing D3 feels like taking out the trash... because your inventory is full of it after a run.
Right.... when loot dropped in D2, it was fun. Doing a meph run itself wasn't fun... D3 has the edge when it comes to what content you farm. However, the loot in D3 is so dull and boring that it doesn't feel exciting. Yes, crap dropped in D2 as well but not at the extremely high rate of D3 drops. Sometimes playing D3 feels like taking out the trash... because your inventory is full of it after a run.
Yes and no. My inventory wasn't full of shit in D2 because 99% of the time there was no reason to pick anything up... that and full of charms. Difference is now things can be salvaged or sold since money has value. I agree with your comments towards farming. The only reason why loot sucks the big dick is they WoW'd it and the only items you'll ever want come from inferno where in D2 you could get some nice "lower level" uniques in nightmare.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
It's not "rose-tinted glasses" or nostalgia. I've recently gone back to D2 and it is genuinely more fun than D3. The only things I'd take from D3 over D2 are the improved graphics (note- not improved art style), the combat engine, and... that's it.
If it were really nostalgia I'd go back and find it wasn't as good as I remembered., but now, probably thanks to D3, it seems better than I remembered.
I went back to d2 to see, and It wasn't fun. And keep in mind d2 had time for a lot of patches of a whole expansion. you can't compare lod to d3, there's so much potential in d3 still waiting, and by the time its over, people will either say "the game is so much better than vanilla" or "vanilla d3 was better than the rest of the series". Then in 15 years, people will only remember expansion d3, and it will be the game of legends.
At the same time, I can say that I went back to D2 and it was fun, while D3 is not.
What it all comes down to is personal preference, I prefer nothing in D3 over D2, except the high resolution support, the 800x600 in D2 is a bit of a bummer when you game on LCD.
Yet your still here, D2 couldn't of been that fun to play again; however you are right, it's all preference.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
1- D3 feels closer to Diablo (the original) than D2 ever did.
2- If you've ever created anything from scratch, you know that its not simple to reproduce something that already exists. Try making your dining room table from lumber. Good f'ing luck. Even if you're a carpenter, you know how precisely you have to do things in order to make something. Now try taking the idea behind that table, and making it more presentable/appealable/better. Now increase the complexity of the project by several orders of magnitude. There will be mistakes/bad ideas in such a large, complex project. These will be worked on. Blizzard has never released a product as we remember it. All of their games are crap (relatively speaking) when they are first released compared to when we stop playing them. Talk to me about how d3 and d2 compare after 3, 5 or 10 years and you might start to have ground to stand on.
3- I still get the "ooooh, christmas!" feeling when yellows drop. When they improve legendaries, that feeling will be even stronger should one drop.
4- So much irrational hatred. Take a chill pill, rub one out, and move on with your lives.
It's so sad that you have to rely on human memory failure to defend this game... seems you're trying to convince yourself...
Most people nostalgic about d2 played it back recently, some (including me) are playing it right now... So.. If my memory fails that much, I'd have much more to worry than "Is d2 better than d3 ?"...
And yes, many of d2's best experience came with the expansion, but the base game was still good as hell, why do you think so much people bought the expansion pack when released? (can say for almost sure that I won't buy a d3 expansion pack if released...), plus, d2 base game not capped at each corner, not nerfed each time players finds interessting spots... Can't wait to see what will be said to defend d3 once an expansion comes... btw, could be fun to put down on paper a comparaison chart between d3 base game and d2 base game... So hardcore d3 defenders that are desesperated enough to blame human memory failure trying to convince themselves that nostalgic didn't play for 10 years would have to find a better excuse ton do so (for the records, I played d2 at the very least 2 months a year each year since LoD release (was playing offline before LoD), so if my memory fails, I'll eat my shorts !
When I started to dislike D3, I was thinking an expansion could save it if blizzard put a lot of efforts on it especially with levels designs and sizes, only 4 players per game... (but not only), but the more weeks pass, the more I feel it's not going at all in the right direction...
Anyway, I was enjoying d3 the first 2 weeks... Despite the big failures such as small maps, linearity, low-numbered mobs (compared to d2), etc... but the "nerf after nerf" approach from blizzard made it too much for me when added to what I was already hating in the game.
Maybe i'll be back on d3 at some point, but not until blizzard stop being dictators by trying to tell me how I love to play the game... If players love to play it a way they don't want (massive boss runs for example), just give them an offline mode or a capped version of the server application, and let them play the way they want... they are already private servers (far to be perfect yet, but they are here anyway) around, so the "piracy" excuse is void...
Making more than 1 realm per region could be a good idea too... And since D3 looks like "A solo game trying to look like an mmo" Why not doing 3 realms per region ? 1 as it's now, where blizzard crappify everything everytime some players do something they don't want... 1 where they don't do "World balancing", so no stupid nerfs, and 1 "sandbox" realm, where you'd have a "free" version of the AH with unlimited items, so you can test high-end gear and stuff (like you were able to do with d2 by Cheating in solo before gearing up online) ?
That's what i'd do if I was an huge company and if I care about players opinion... Plus, that way, I could watch how much players are in what realm, so I can have a better idea why players love the game ! (the only constructive arguments for D3 I've seen were negative... people who loves it just says "I play it becuz it'z a fkin good game !" most of time... with some times a "and it has better graphics"... so basically, most players can't say why they love it, but most not-anymore-players can give you at least 5-6 objective reasons about why they dislike the game... and no one sees there's a problem ?)
So, cya in d2... <old alzeimered man creepy voice>if my memory doesn't faaaaaaaaaaail befoohooore !
nb: Sorry about the off topic parts, but i'm trying to be objective and constructive... and sometime spread a bit from the base topic
Hope blizzard reads my suggestions, i'm sure they could help them a bit
Yeah D2 was SOOOOO great at release... Nope. After patches? Sure. Expansion and more patches? Most definitely.
And cheating and free AH for free high end items? Are you even serious? Fortunately I know that will never happen... There's just no point to that in a game that's all about the item grind, what is there to do if you get all the items with cheats?
And cheating and free AH for free high end items? Are you even serious? Fortunately I know that will never happen... There's just no point to that in a game that's all about the item grind, what is there to do if you get all the items with cheats?
Humm... You know what a realm is right ? and what it implies ?
Please note that I said "Sandbox" realm, not "cheat realm"... I suppose you also know what Sandbox means ?
well... Just in case... i'll clarify my idea
- Players would have to choose between several realms with different settings, instead of just choosing the realm "region-based"
- Players in 1 realm may not affect / trade / whatever in other realms (just like you can't trade / affect players from US realm atm if you play on EU)
- Sandbox is to make tries... So if you wanna just "try some stuff" to know better what to aim for high-end stuff, you have no ways to do it with the current setup...
Each realm is physically on different servers, so "Cheaters" using the sandbox realm would not affect performences on other servers, whatever they do.
Anyway I don't think it will be done on d3, even if I think that would be a good compromise for those complaining of "No offline play"
btw, yes, I was serious
EDIT: Blizzard keeps saying that they are sorry they can't please everyone... But they don't do anything to even try to please everyone... A such multi-realm approach would be a good thing in that direction, and a proof that they are at least trying to please as much people as possible... instead of forcing player to reconsider the way they play at almost each minor patch. So basically, i'd ask "Why not ?"
Being a maths guy, 1.10 and 1.1 are the same thing.
Being dev+code guy, I can ensure you it's not the same thing... versionning is not maths, sorry
If you're hurt by my posts, just don't read them... but as some old says that "only truth hurts"... I'm not doing this to hurt anyone, i'm doing this for the game to improve in the future.
(EDIT: Typo)
<--wasn't clear. I focused on math, then Majored in Software Programming. While decimal usage is taught in school, version numbering is a standard, but isn't taught in school. Sadly, I program more for fun than anything (hobbyist) - I am a system admin career-wise. Ultimately, though, all I meant was I made a logical typo based on my educational background, lol. Not there was not a difference between the two
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I too often gravitate toward more antiquated games. Which is partly why D3 appeals to me. The overhead 3rd person view is rife with old school arcade feel. Marrying that to modern 3d graphics is nothing short of awesome.
I hate to hear fans of the franchise espousing dislike for the new title. It kinda saddens me to know that some folks waited all that time only to be let down.
As to D3; I can only see it getting better. With continuing tweaking from player feedback, the implementation of PvP and some expansions, this game has nowhere to go but up. Up from a point that I am utterly happy with.
Again, I truly am sorry you were dissatisfied.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
there was this comment on The Old Republic from a poster that is a retort to your argument.
someone puts out let's say some old Ford and over the years add in new stuff and it becomes a mercedes SLR with all the bells and whistles.
then that same company comes out and say that they are putting out a new car that is supposed to be the next in line after the Mercedes SLR.
but when that car came out it does not have most of the features of the SLR, sits less people, always breaking down etc.
are people gonna be happy about it and go but it took decades before that old Ford became the SLR and wait decades for it to improve or would they pissed about it?
D3 is not supposed to be compared to vanilla unpatched D2, it should be compared to the current version of D2
OK...compare them. Outdated graphics and sound. Bugs, lag, hacks dupes......farming can only be done in a handful of tiresome areas. Leveling can only be done in one of two areas. D2 was easy as pie, could run through the entire game, all 3 difficulties, in only one day. PvP was a disorganized mess of imbalanced spew.
This is an entirely new program, far more advanced than D2. You have to expect many tweaks and screws to be turned. It's intellectually dishonest to claim that it's fair to compare a game that had been tweaked, patched and expanded over the course of 12 years to a game that was released only about a month ago. There are new classes and new skills, much different than D2. Yet you still expect there to be no need for tweaks?
That's laughable and foolish.
D3 is hands down way better than D2 already, and it's still in it's infancy.
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Of course, they're their own game.
But it's ridiculous to assume that a fresh-out-of-the-box game will have the same amount of "funness" as a game that's been iterated on for years and years, isn't it? At some point several years of community feedback does have some outcome on the "quality" of the game.
Let's use ToR as an example. What was a reasonable expectation of ToR? That it would be WoW + 3 expansions + better? Or that it would be a MMO that looked at WoW and tried to improve upon it where they could? Was it reasonable to say that ToR shouldn't have issues that WoW had over its 7 year lifespan? Or was it reasonable to say that the development team should have tried to learn as much as they could in an attempt to avoid the same pitfalls?
Quite literally, what you're saying is that D3 should have no errors that occured in D2, at all, ever, even though it's prettymuch an entirely different development team working on it who may not have had intimate working knowledge of the D2 development process.
While I feel that the D3 team should have taken significant knowledge from D2 and applied it to D3, I don't feel that it's fair to compare a fully mature game to an infant game either. I think the truth lies somewhere in the grey, and not in the black and white that most people want to see (fanboy or hater, no inbetween).
Agree.
You said it... THAT's the point... (i'd add "far much simplist" but that's just my opinion)
I (and I think many other people) wouldn't be so unforgiving over this game if it was not named "Diablo"... It's not a Diablo game, it's an entirely new game, just as you said.
Yes it's supposed to be compared because people can't let go of D2. D2 had an expansion, which grew the story, the 'world' with new zones, gear, and other features. D3 vanilla has laid a foundation with a story that can be expanded, the world can expand, gear that can be expanded, pvp, etc. There is nothing better from the current version of D2 that is remotely better than D3 vanilla. (Edit- I liked the old chat system in D2. That's the only thing better from D2)
People expect everything from the start, and that's the problem. WoW didn't have everything in vanilla, Everquest didn't have its 180,000 expansions built into vanilla, and Diablo 2 did not either.
Edit #2- I have no issue with people loving D2 because I do too, but I'm sorry, it doesn't hold a candle to D3. I get an hour, maybe 2 a night to relax and do some gaming. D3 has the perfect balance of action and risk vs. reward for me to step away from MMO gaming forever and not miss it for a single moment.
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I played it recently too. It was a bad version of D3, with some cool features gaining via expansion.
I don't have lag, and don't mind server maintenance for a game far superior, with far fewer hacks/cheats.
If you have to mod and otherwise screw with the game to make it fun (over out-of-the-box gameplay), that should tell you something. D2 required an expansion before it was more than meh. Hell, I stopped playing it until LoD for that reason.
You can upgrade from drops in D3, or trade of /trade, or use the AH. This is such a bullshit argument.
It doesn't suck, it just ain't as good as you claim it is. Reality is you don't like D3, but instead of having the balls to admit it and move on, you wan't to poison as many other people as you can first.
D2 was the same way, you farmed for gear, or you traded for gear. Of course, in this regard, D2 *was* better - because everyone duped the best gear anyways, so it was available cheap, and easily. Of course, all the D2 proponents here will immediately claim :I NEVER DID THAT". Just like the guilty do.
Exactly right. People who don't have an irrational attraction to something *DO* see it more clearly than people who are addicted. That is how addiction works. You are convinced you have to have something, that without that thing, nothing else is worthy, that any replacements just don't match up. If you were addicted to 1 dollar bills, and someone took them and replaced them with 5 dollar bills - you would wan't the 1 dollar bills back.
Moaku - I played it right before launch, to get a feel for what changed. And almost everything did for the better, minus issue that have been working on. And D2 at launch was every bit as broken as D3 is. Remember the 1.1 patch? Of course not, or else you would see how silly your diatribe looks. Yes, D2 1.1, when they nerfed or entirely crippled systems to stop OP builds and exploitative mechanics. Ah, excepting that now it is *your* memory blocking something out to support *your* point.
Seriously - if it isn't what you wanted, you have the option of *constructively* making your feelings known, or getting the hell out of here. Douchebag rants whose only intent is to try and inflame the community, as opposed to well-presented complaints on how to make the game better give away your hand. You don't want it fixed, you just want it to burn to the ground to sate your *misguided* anger.
I wouldn't want D2 part 2. I wanted Diablo 3.
The devs wanted to create an entirely new game that felt, played and executed like Diablo.
D3 feels just like Diablo to me. It's everything I hoped it would be....and more.
I don't understand this sentiment? How, EXACTLY, is D3 not like Diablo? Be specific, please. I keep hearing people parrot this remark and I simply don't get it.
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Yeah, of course I don't remember 1.1 patch, there never was a 1.1 patch, there was an 1.10 (you know... after 09 comes 10...)... It added a lot of stuff and balanced the game, especially summoning classes if I remember correctly... It was not exactly a nerf... Necromancer for example could summon more skells in 1.09, but they were also weaker... It was balancing, not nerfing and ruining the game experience...
They sure fixed some exploitable mechanichs, but not those who many players loved... D2 wouldn't be D2 without diaruns in classic and baalruns in exp for example... and in the start, that was an unexpected exploitable mechanics...
That was the greatest patch ever for d2 if you ask me because it calmed down botters and duppers for a bit, even if not stopping them permanently...
Better do your homeworks before accusing someone's memory... mine is working quite well
I don't have the balls to admit it ? I admit that constantly ! Lack of homeworks once again ?
And as I stated in a previous post, good for you if you enjoy it... but I don't
EDIT: I still keep hope that when an expansion is released it will improve things to a decent level of comparaison with d2, but unlike with the base game, I won't blindly prebuy it... But if you know a better ways for your hopes get realised and frustrations get fixed than making hear your opinion out with constructive arguments like I'm trying to do, I'm all listening
I posted a discrete thread about that a few weeks ago... just have a look here: http://www.diablofans.com/topic/50426-what-i-dislike-in-d3/page__p__928916#entry928916
I've seen this crap before, and it exposes many gamers complete lack of understanding or insight into game development.
Your car analogy only applies when you keep taking the base model and improving on it. Not the base *CONCEPT*, but the physical representation of it that can be driven. You get the 2000 model, and it is cool. 2001 gets new wheels, and a fantastic stereo. 2002 gets a spoiler and a sunroof.
And then 2005 arrives - a redesign of the classic! The body changes, wider wheelbase, different stereo, no more spoiler. And for the next couple years, recall notices or warranty trips for stuff that worked on your 2001, but not the new model. And it is made at a new factory who have never made this model, so they have to learn the ropes before they can become efficient and make fewer mistakes.
Gaming is very much the same, but your initial premise/analogy was wrong due to your lack of understanding.
Diablo gets created, patched, tuned, expanded. Yay!
Diablo 2 gets created. NOTE: Diablo 2 doesn't start based on the current in-use game code for Diablo 1. Some bits and pieces of the backend may get ported, but for the most part (and especially 12 years back), a new game engine required almost completely new code to harness it. Lessons learned (in regards to gameplay and systems) are carried over, new features added, less liked features removed. Bugs get fixed, game gets patched, expansions get added. Yay!
Diablo 3 gets created. Again, doesn't get created off of the Diablo 2 base code, and after so many years, wouldn't even be viable as far as creating a competitive product using the features of modern computing systems. Not created by the same team, so while the features and systems are well-known, the *creation* and programming of them is not.
And make no mistake - understanding of a game *features/systems* in now way translates into the ability to program said systems.
To summarize -
Make - Ford - Blizzard
Model - Mustang - Diablo
Year - 2000/2005/2012 - 1/2/3 (those years are random FYI)
The car and the game have different model years, with defining features as well as new changes. New model years will have things that are broken, and get fixed. Both models will have features you can add improve over time. Many times changes in models or builders result in unexpected changes due to the relearning of otherwise well-known systems.
--------------EDIT--------------
Moaku - your memory only works well in reference to remembering a patch with significant negative changes to D2 as positive (the community also agreed), and similar changes to D3 as negative. As for patch numbering, I make that mistake all the time with numbers. Being a maths guy, 1.10 and 1.1 are the same thing.
Don't take partial comments to respond to. You have the balls to spout your vitriol all over the forums here. You don't have the balls to move without causing as much damage as possible.
To be fair - I just went and read the post you linked above, and it was great, in regards to constructive criticism. And then you got to the end, which had the same conclusion almost every other of yours has - I don't like D3, I am not going to play it. Just going to sticking around and try and hurt the game as much as possible.
Being dev+code guy, I can ensure you it's not the same thing... versionning is not maths, sorry
If you're hurt by my posts, just don't read them... but as some old says that "only truth hurts"... I'm not doing this to hurt anyone, i'm doing this for the game to improve in the future.
(EDIT: Typo)
Right.... when loot dropped in D2, it was fun. Doing a meph run itself wasn't fun... D3 has the edge when it comes to what content you farm. However, the loot in D3 is so dull and boring that it doesn't feel exciting. Yes, crap dropped in D2 as well but not at the extremely high rate of D3 drops. Sometimes playing D3 feels like taking out the trash... because your inventory is full of it after a run.
Yes and no. My inventory wasn't full of shit in D2 because 99% of the time there was no reason to pick anything up... that and full of charms. Difference is now things can be salvaged or sold since money has value. I agree with your comments towards farming. The only reason why loot sucks the big dick is they WoW'd it and the only items you'll ever want come from inferno where in D2 you could get some nice "lower level" uniques in nightmare.
I went back to d2 to see, and It wasn't fun. And keep in mind d2 had time for a lot of patches of a whole expansion. you can't compare lod to d3, there's so much potential in d3 still waiting, and by the time its over, people will either say "the game is so much better than vanilla" or "vanilla d3 was better than the rest of the series". Then in 15 years, people will only remember expansion d3, and it will be the game of legends.
Yet your still here, D2 couldn't of been that fun to play again; however you are right, it's all preference.
2- If you've ever created anything from scratch, you know that its not simple to reproduce something that already exists. Try making your dining room table from lumber. Good f'ing luck. Even if you're a carpenter, you know how precisely you have to do things in order to make something. Now try taking the idea behind that table, and making it more presentable/appealable/better. Now increase the complexity of the project by several orders of magnitude. There will be mistakes/bad ideas in such a large, complex project. These will be worked on. Blizzard has never released a product as we remember it. All of their games are crap (relatively speaking) when they are first released compared to when we stop playing them. Talk to me about how d3 and d2 compare after 3, 5 or 10 years and you might start to have ground to stand on.
3- I still get the "ooooh, christmas!" feeling when yellows drop. When they improve legendaries, that feeling will be even stronger should one drop.
4- So much irrational hatred. Take a chill pill, rub one out, and move on with your lives.
Yeah D2 was SOOOOO great at release... Nope. After patches? Sure. Expansion and more patches? Most definitely.
And cheating and free AH for free high end items? Are you even serious? Fortunately I know that will never happen... There's just no point to that in a game that's all about the item grind, what is there to do if you get all the items with cheats?
Humm... You know what a realm is right ? and what it implies ?
Please note that I said "Sandbox" realm, not "cheat realm"... I suppose you also know what Sandbox means ?
well... Just in case... i'll clarify my idea
- Players would have to choose between several realms with different settings, instead of just choosing the realm "region-based"
- Players in 1 realm may not affect / trade / whatever in other realms (just like you can't trade / affect players from US realm atm if you play on EU)
- Sandbox is to make tries... So if you wanna just "try some stuff" to know better what to aim for high-end stuff, you have no ways to do it with the current setup...
Each realm is physically on different servers, so "Cheaters" using the sandbox realm would not affect performences on other servers, whatever they do.
Anyway I don't think it will be done on d3, even if I think that would be a good compromise for those complaining of "No offline play"
btw, yes, I was serious
EDIT: Blizzard keeps saying that they are sorry they can't please everyone... But they don't do anything to even try to please everyone... A such multi-realm approach would be a good thing in that direction, and a proof that they are at least trying to please as much people as possible... instead of forcing player to reconsider the way they play at almost each minor patch. So basically, i'd ask "Why not ?"
<--wasn't clear. I focused on math, then Majored in Software Programming. While decimal usage is taught in school, version numbering is a standard, but isn't taught in school. Sadly, I program more for fun than anything (hobbyist) - I am a system admin career-wise. Ultimately, though, all I meant was I made a logical typo based on my educational background, lol. Not there was not a difference between the two