Also another thing to point out is, to accomdate this POS system(otherwise it would be literally impossible to get the rune you want), they removed 2 rune types from the game, so much for the little customization they were claiming the game still had, even though the stats are automated.
Removing two runes(or was it gems, well anyway doesn't matter, It's still less customization) that ratically change how skills work, really cripples the customization we are suppose to have.
To Dolaiim: this-> / means and/or, if the item can't be sold, It's for all intensive purposes bound to char.
Also another thing to point out is, to accomdate this POS system(otherwise it would be literally impossible to get the rune you want), they removed 2 rune types from the game, so much for the little customization they were claiming the game still had, even though the stats are automated.
Removing two runes(or was it gems, well anyway doesn't matter, It's still less customization) that ratically change how skills work, really cripples the customization we are suppose to have.
To Dolaiim: this-> / means and/or, if the item can't be sold, It's for all intensive purposes bound to char.
Wow, must be nice to live in your fantasy world. Once again, nothing about runes has been confirmed. More over you are fixated on the fact that they will be permanent. So by logic if I put a level 1 rune into my skill, I'm totally screwed right? Or are you making exceptions for higher level runes?
Look, level 1-3 runes are for experimenting. Almost everyone agrees with this, meaning we can swap the runes in and out as we find them, regardless of rune levels and regardless of which skill you've slotted them into. The only question in this regard is:
1- Are all runes unattuned before you slot them?
2- When replacing an already slotted/attuned rune, is the rune destroyed?
3- When replacing an already slotted/attuned rune, is the rune attuned to the specific skill?
4- If runes are attuned to specific skills, is there a way to make them unattuned again
You're the only one who seems to think that once attuned, you can never change the rune placed in the slot. By that logic, we will not slot any runes until we get level 7 runes. Also if a rune is attuned to a specific skill, (Eg. Level 3 Indigo Magic Missile) you can place it on the AH, and any wizard can buy that rune and slot it into his Magic Missile skill. Again everyone who doesn't live in your world seems to agree that is how this would work if runes attuned to a specific skill.
One last point, it was 2 gems that were not displayed on the Diablo 3 website. It makes a huge difference that it was GEMS and not RUNES. Obviously you can't grasp how much difference that makes meaning you have no clue about D3.
And it has not been confirmed that they (the 2 gems) are removed! Jay already said what is on the site is not what will be available on release, he has confirmed many more uniques and other items that are still being worked on and are not ready as yet. Chances are they are still finalizing what attributes those 2 Gems should be for.
PS. How is Randomlization not Gambling?
You roll a dice, there is a one in six chance of each number coming out. That's Randomlization (probability theory), that's math. On a infinite number of rolls each number will appear the same amount of times.
In craps you rolls 2 dice and hope for a 7 or 11. That's Randomlization (probability theory), that's math and interestinly it is called gambling. Why do you think mathematicians always use Gambling as an example when trying to explain probability theory.
In Diablo, killing a boss nets you a probable chance of getting a rare/unique. That's randomlization/gambling. Collecting + Magic Find is all about stacking the odds more in your favor.
The biggest problem I have with the idea, is just where the heck do all those "failed" runes go? My wizard has 25 skills, that is an astonishing 125 possible runes I have to stash. Even if you assume that you can leave runes into unused skills, then you would only need 100 inventory spaces for failed runes. (I believe you only start off with 102 spaces in your inventory + stash.)
There are millions and millions of different combinations that exist for every character, and changing skills depending on the situation, and creating new builds was a huge part of the appeal for me in D3. So, I am a little confused by this current idea.
I like the stat to runes idea as it gives you something to hunt for, however that alone could consume a good deal of inventory space. Like charms in D2, exchange inventory space for power. Again I have no problem with this, in fact I like it. But to exchange inventory space for options? No, horrible idea.
Even if they allow the mystic to unattune runes, it does nothing to solve this inventory problem.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The biggest problem I have with the idea, is just where the heck do all those "failed" runes go? [...]
There are millions and millions of different combinations that exist for every character, and changing skills depending on the situation, and creating new builds was a huge part of the appeal for me in D3. So, I am a little confused by this current idea.
As you describe it, you're damn right! The chances of getting a rune to attune perfectly to your build is EXTREMELY unlikely. You'll have an entire stash full of attuned runes that don't fit your particular build.
But come along with me on a little voyage.. imagine a world where you could put those runes on the auction house. Think about those thousands.. perhaps MILLIONS of D3 player with weird-ass, unique builds (according to you) looking for the PERFECT rune.. how will they EVER find it? Unless millions of players are putting weird-ass runes on the auction house.... Most players will not want most runes. But there will be at least one player with a build philosophy that will get a huge boner from that crappy magic missile rune you find useless.
At the end of the day, it's common sense. You will be able to NOT ONLY un-socket un-wanted attuned runes, but you will be able to sell them on the auction house.
1- Are all runes unattuned before you slot them? Yes, they are
2- When replacing an already slotted/attuned rune, is the rune destroyed? No, you can store it in stash, put on AH etc
3- When replacing an already slotted/attuned rune, is the rune attuned to the specific skill? Yes it is. It is attuned to the skill you put in it, obviously
4- If runes are attuned to specific skills, is there a way to make them unattuned again - Yes there is. Most likely by the mystic. This has been confirmed almost.
Hehe I agree with all your answers, its the most logical choice. However, we have not seen any blue confirmation on this. Lots of probably and most likely but no real 100% confirmation.
Has anoyone played D2 on these forums... I know a lot of you have but DANNNNNNNGGGG!
Basics for y'all newbs out there:
In D2 people traded UNID'D(unidentified) stuff for cheaper than regular prices. ex. Unattuned lvl 7 runes being traded for a lvl 6 rune vs. a lvl 7 crimson bring traded for a lvl 7 alabaster.
Instead of you ID'n the item and getting garbage ORRRRRR possibly something great! you keep it UNID'd and get more monayyyyy. overall!
The biggest problem I have with the idea, is just where the heck do all those "failed" runes go? [...]
There are millions and millions of different combinations that exist for every character, and changing skills depending on the situation, and creating new builds was a huge part of the appeal for me in D3. So, I am a little confused by this current idea.
As you describe it, you're damn right! The chances of getting a rune to attune perfectly to your build is EXTREMELY unlikely. You'll have an entire stash full of attuned runes that don't fit your particular build.
But come along with me on a little voyage.. imagine a world where you could put those runes on the auction house. Think about those thousands.. perhaps MILLIONS of D3 player with weird-ass, unique builds (according to you) looking for the PERFECT rune.. how will they EVER find it? Unless millions of players are putting weird-ass runes on the auction house.... Most players will not want most runes. But there will be at least one player with a build philosophy that will get a huge boner from that crappy magic missile rune you find useless.
At the end of the day, it's common sense. You will be able to NOT ONLY un-socket un-wanted attuned runes, but you will be able to sell them on the auction house.
Even if they allow the mystic to unattune runes, it does nothing to solve this inventory problem.
Good point. That's why any rational developer would agree attuned runes should be sale-able on the auction house.
If you have 1 particular build you going after, there is an 80% chance that you will get the wrong rune. And, if you get the wrong rune guess what? You got an 80% chance to get the wrong rune again, and again, and again....There is a possibility that you will get the wrong run 30x. Duplicates are not only possible, they are extremely likely. So having the ability to sell and/or unattune a rune is 100% essential.
However, that really has nothing to do with my post. My concern had to do with trying alternate builds, and being required to stash up to 125 runes. I should not have to fill my entire shared stash with runes to try different spec on ONE toon!!!
And of course, I plan on playing every class. Where am I going to put up to ~600 runes?!?!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
So the arguments here are getting heated, quite a few of them about unconfirmed details. All we know at this point is that unattuned runes are in the game in some form. We have no clue whatsoever what form they will take. Jay talked about an idea a few months ago for a potential system, but that's it.
The system that Jay described worked thusly:
1. Runes drop unattuned and colorless.
2. When socketed, runes assume a random color and may also have random attributes.
3. Socketed runes become attached to the skill they were put into.
4. There may be a mechanic to restore a rune to its unattuned state, perhaps through the mystic or jeweler.
Here's my problem with the proposed system: yes, Diablo is a game with random item drops. But what has never been random is your character build. You could put skill points and attribute points wherever you wanted. Runes are a vital part of a character's build now. I think it's very important that players be able to choose how they want to play their character without a randomness factor to it.
Random runes are simply not the same as random gear. This is more akin to choosing to place a skill point in Diablo 2 but having the game randomly pick a skill to put it in.
It just seems too frustrating as is. I'm fine with the rest of the system except for not knowing the color. If I get crap affixes, that's fine (that's a gearing/stat randomization). But having randomness prevent me from using my skills the way I want to use them? That's not fun at all.
So the arguments here are getting heated, quite a few of them about unconfirmed details. All we know at this point is that unattuned runes are in the game in some form. We have no clue whatsoever what form they will take. Jay talked about an idea a few months ago for a potential system, but that's it.
The system that Jay described worked thusly:
1. Runes drop unattuned and colorless.
2. When socketed, runes assume a random color and may also have random attributes.
3. Socketed runes become attached to the skill they were put into.
4. There may be a mechanic to restore a rune to its unattuned state, perhaps through the mystic or jeweler.
Here's my problem with the proposed system: yes, Diablo is a game with random item drops. But what has never been random is your character build. You could put skill points and attribute points wherever you wanted. Runes are a vital part of a character's build now. I think it's very important that players be able to choose how they want to play their character without a randomness factor to it.
Random runes are simply not the same as random gear. This is more akin to choosing to place a skill point in Diablo 2 but having the game randomly pick a skill to put it in.
It just seems too frustrating as is. I'm fine with the rest of the system except for not knowing the color. If I get crap affixes, that's fine (that's a gearing/stat randomization). But having randomness prevent me from using my skills the way I want to use them? That's not fun at all.
Important to note that a next level runes are not huge upgrades. For example Magic Missile - Indigo rune, you get 1 additional missile per rune level to a max of 8 missiles at level 7.
The difference between a level 6 to level 7 rune is not that huge, You would almost rather find a better set/unique weapon in Inferno than find a level 7 rune. Don't get me wrong, we all want to have level 7 runes ideally,and they are upgrades, but its more for completeness and boasting and our min/max obsession then because of its raw power.
Important to note that a next level runes are not huge upgrades. For example Magic Missile - Indigo rune, you get 1 additional missile per rune level to a max of 8 missiles at level 7.
The difference between a level 6 to level 7 rune is not that huge, You would almost rather find a better set/unique weapon in Inferno than find a level 7 rune. Don't get me wrong, we all want to have level 7 runes ideally,and they are upgrades, but its more for completeness and boasting and our min/max obsession then because of its raw power.
Whether they are Rank6 or Rank7, you will still have to stash tons of runes if you want to play around with specs at all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
So the arguments here are getting heated, quite a few of them about unconfirmed details. All we know at this point is that unattuned runes are in the game in some form. We have no clue whatsoever what form they will take. Jay talked about an idea a few months ago for a potential system, but that's it.
The system that Jay described worked thusly:
1. Runes drop unattuned and colorless.
2. When socketed, runes assume a random color and may also have random attributes.
3. Socketed runes become attached to the skill they were put into.
4. There may be a mechanic to restore a rune to its unattuned state, perhaps through the mystic or jeweler.
Here's my problem with the proposed system: yes, Diablo is a game with random item drops. But what has never been random is your character build. You could put skill points and attribute points wherever you wanted. Runes are a vital part of a character's build now. I think it's very important that players be able to choose how they want to play their character without a randomness factor to it.
Random runes are simply not the same as random gear. This is more akin to choosing to place a skill point in Diablo 2 but having the game randomly pick a skill to put it in.
It just seems too frustrating as is. I'm fine with the rest of the system except for not knowing the color. If I get crap affixes, that's fine (that's a gearing/stat randomization). But having randomness prevent me from using my skills the way I want to use them? That's not fun at all.
You're ignoring the fact that it appears that regular runestones will drop (as they are items on the site)
You can customise your skills as much as you want with coloured runes, but, once you have a specific build made with level 7 runes, there's nothing you can possibly do to improve them......unless you introduce unattuned runes! Now, if you get a level 7 unattuned rune, it might become the type you want, AND give you a bonus. If it's not the type of rune you want, depending on how big the stat bonuses are, it could make you want to change your build because the random bonus could be something really beneficial.
So the arguments here are getting heated, quite a few of them about unconfirmed details. All we know at this point is that unattuned runes are in the game in some form. We have no clue whatsoever what form they will take. Jay talked about an idea a few months ago for a potential system, but that's it.
The system that Jay described worked thusly:
1. Runes drop unattuned and colorless.
2. When socketed, runes assume a random color and may also have random attributes.
3. Socketed runes become attached to the skill they were put into.
4. There may be a mechanic to restore a rune to its unattuned state, perhaps through the mystic or jeweler.
Here's my problem with the proposed system: yes, Diablo is a game with random item drops. But what has never been random is your character build. You could put skill points and attribute points wherever you wanted. Runes are a vital part of a character's build now. I think it's very important that players be able to choose how they want to play their character without a randomness factor to it.
Random runes are simply not the same as random gear. This is more akin to choosing to place a skill point in Diablo 2 but having the game randomly pick a skill to put it in.
It just seems too frustrating as is. I'm fine with the rest of the system except for not knowing the color. If I get crap affixes, that's fine (that's a gearing/stat randomization). But having randomness prevent me from using my skills the way I want to use them? That's not fun at all.
You're ignoring the fact that it appears that regular runestones will drop (as they are items on the site)
You can customise your skills as much as you want with coloured runes, but, once you have a specific build made with level 7 runes, there's nothing you can possibly do to improve them......unless you introduce unattuned runes! Now, if you get a level 7 unattuned rune, it might become the type you want, AND give you a bonus. If it's not the type of rune you want, depending on how big the stat bonuses are, it could make you want to change your build because the random bonus could be something really beneficial.
Just because they are in the item tab does not necessarily mean they drop. They could be there just because they are "crafted" when attuned. Although, I would be ok with this system, assuming it works as you described.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I'm still not sure why people think runes are any different than every other piece of gear in the game. One of the best aspects of diablo is the random loot tables (as opposed to the wow style of more fixed loot).
You probably won't get the best-in-game color the first time you slot a tier 7 rune, but you probably won't get the best-in-game weapon for your class on the first boss fight either. In fact you might even need to trade for it.
^ because runes are skill points. They behave completely differently depending on how you place them.
Skill points aren't connected to the economy. You can't buy skill points. You can't trade skill points. They don't drop off mobs. They don't vary in quality. They aren't loot.
And yes, runes do behave differently, but so do some types of gear; A slow crossbow, a fast bow, a javalin, and a spear for example. How about a cold-enchanted weapon, a poison enchanted weapon, and a life-steal weapon?
If you can change your runes freely can they also be sold freely? I'm trying to work out if you socket a rune in a skill then get bored and decide to sell it etc eventually everybody will have every rune they want and runes will be worthless after a while is that the case?
(hope that made sense)
Yes. At the moment there seems to be no "runestone-sinks". Gems have the "gem dust" so they will likely be salvageable, but haven't seen anything similar for runestones.
This itself is one of the reasons why rune attunement is a good idea. It will decrease rune saturation.
Without skill attuned runes the maximum amount of runes you will ever need per character is 6 of each colour (no counting ranks). One for each active spell you can have. And having that many is probably overkill since you won't really use every runestone effect for all your skills.
I'd make the "unattune" process use lower level runestones as part of the process. Want to unattune a level 6 runestone? You would need the salvage from a bunch of level 5 runestones - if you set the ratio in line with their drop rates (level 6 stones drop 1/20th as often as level 5's) you'd effectively remove a significant fraction of each preceeding level from the game on a permanent basis. They will have to do something along these lines or every runestone short of level 7's will become boringly common on the AH. With a system like this even a "bad" drop for you retains some value as it can be used later to unattune a high level wildcard rune.
There's an awful lot of assumptions being made here.
Here's things we don't know:
1. The drop frequency of runes. Jay did mention that level 1 runes would be very common, but that's it. "Very common" in Diablo drop terms doesn't mean you'll be tripping over them.
2. Whether or not both unattuned and colored runes will drop. In Jay's initial interview, he only said that runes would drop unattuned and would need to be placed in a skill before gaining a color and (possibly) affixes. There is some speculation that maybe both drop, and there is additional speculation that that means colored runes won't have affixes but unattuned runes will.
I do not at all understand the argument that more randomness = more replayability. I suppose it's technically true, but it's only replayable if it's fun in the first place. They could make the item drop game even more random by dropping a bunch of items which aren't useful for anything at all. Now you have an even smaller chance of getting something useful when you kill a monster. Does that make the game last longer? Yep. Does it make it more fun? Nope.
Our selection of active skills and runes is ALL WE HAVE to make our character the way we want. They removed attribute points and skill trees and gave us active skills and runes instead. Runes are just not like other items. They're dropped like other items, but they're not just gear, they can radically alter the functionality of your skills. Not having the right color rune for your skill means your build doesn't work. That's not fun randomization, that's frustrating randomization.
I'm fine with SOME randomization on runes. Like maybe I don't get enough crimson drops, that's randomization I can deal with. I'm ok with putting a crimson rune into Frenzy and having a random affix pop up: "+2 to light radius" Ok, that's a crap affix, but at least my skill works the way it's supposed to. I can still have fun finding another crimson rune and trying again for a better affix.
What I don't want to happen is to stick a rune into Arcane Orb and getting Obsidian (if I wanted Crimson). If an obsidian rune had dropped, I could have put it in a different skill where I want the obsidian effect. Ok, I guess I wait for the next rune. When the next rune comes I try again and miss. Until I finally get the right color in my first skill, all my other skills remain unruned. It might take 10 drops before this happens. It might take 10 drops every time I try this. The same process happens every time I get a higher level rune. I just want my build to work the way I designed it.
It's okay if it takes 100 item drops to get an upgrade for your chest armor. Because you can still play the way you want to play in the meantime. And you can salvage what you don't need and turn it into something you do need.
If I were designing the system, I'd do it like this:
1. Runes drop with a color and a level.
2. When placed into a skill, runes become attuned to that skill and won't work in any other skill.
3. When a rune is attuned, it reveals random affixes in addition to the skill effects.
To me, that's randomization that's fun. It's the same type of randomization you get from the item hunt game (searching for better affixes) but still giving you the freedom to play the build you want to play. Locking runes to skills gives you a decision that matters, something that's vital in a game where you can change your active skillset at any time.
For example, all ranked coloured runes can drop, but so can all ranked uncoloured runes can drop. The uncoloured runes, when put in a skill, get locked to that skill, + a bonus.
I like this idea. It makes sense that a random lvl 7 rune should be more powerfull than a regular lvl 7 rune. Theres a high chance of ending up with a useless lvl 7 rune.
I foresee a lot of trades with unattuned runes, just like we had/have unid torches for trade. It may cost your soul or just a few Pgems. Sucked to be poor in D2
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Removing two runes(or was it gems, well anyway doesn't matter, It's still less customization) that ratically change how skills work, really cripples the customization we are suppose to have.
To Dolaiim: this-> / means and/or, if the item can't be sold, It's for all intensive purposes bound to char.
Look, level 1-3 runes are for experimenting. Almost everyone agrees with this, meaning we can swap the runes in and out as we find them, regardless of rune levels and regardless of which skill you've slotted them into. The only question in this regard is:
1- Are all runes unattuned before you slot them?
2- When replacing an already slotted/attuned rune, is the rune destroyed?
3- When replacing an already slotted/attuned rune, is the rune attuned to the specific skill?
4- If runes are attuned to specific skills, is there a way to make them unattuned again
You're the only one who seems to think that once attuned, you can never change the rune placed in the slot. By that logic, we will not slot any runes until we get level 7 runes. Also if a rune is attuned to a specific skill, (Eg. Level 3 Indigo Magic Missile) you can place it on the AH, and any wizard can buy that rune and slot it into his Magic Missile skill. Again everyone who doesn't live in your world seems to agree that is how this would work if runes attuned to a specific skill.
One last point, it was 2 gems that were not displayed on the Diablo 3 website. It makes a huge difference that it was GEMS and not RUNES. Obviously you can't grasp how much difference that makes meaning you have no clue about D3.
And it has not been confirmed that they (the 2 gems) are removed! Jay already said what is on the site is not what will be available on release, he has confirmed many more uniques and other items that are still being worked on and are not ready as yet. Chances are they are still finalizing what attributes those 2 Gems should be for.
PS. How is Randomlization not Gambling?
You roll a dice, there is a one in six chance of each number coming out. That's Randomlization (probability theory), that's math. On a infinite number of rolls each number will appear the same amount of times.
In craps you rolls 2 dice and hope for a 7 or 11. That's Randomlization (probability theory), that's math and interestinly it is called gambling. Why do you think mathematicians always use Gambling as an example when trying to explain probability theory.
In Diablo, killing a boss nets you a probable chance of getting a rare/unique. That's randomlization/gambling. Collecting + Magic Find is all about stacking the odds more in your favor.
There are millions and millions of different combinations that exist for every character, and changing skills depending on the situation, and creating new builds was a huge part of the appeal for me in D3. So, I am a little confused by this current idea.
I like the stat to runes idea as it gives you something to hunt for, however that alone could consume a good deal of inventory space. Like charms in D2, exchange inventory space for power. Again I have no problem with this, in fact I like it. But to exchange inventory space for options? No, horrible idea.
Even if they allow the mystic to unattune runes, it does nothing to solve this inventory problem.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
As you describe it, you're damn right! The chances of getting a rune to attune perfectly to your build is EXTREMELY unlikely. You'll have an entire stash full of attuned runes that don't fit your particular build.
But come along with me on a little voyage.. imagine a world where you could put those runes on the auction house. Think about those thousands.. perhaps MILLIONS of D3 player with weird-ass, unique builds (according to you) looking for the PERFECT rune.. how will they EVER find it? Unless millions of players are putting weird-ass runes on the auction house.... Most players will not want most runes. But there will be at least one player with a build philosophy that will get a huge boner from that crappy magic missile rune you find useless.
At the end of the day, it's common sense. You will be able to NOT ONLY un-socket un-wanted attuned runes, but you will be able to sell them on the auction house.
Good point. That's why any rational developer would agree attuned runes should be sale-able on the auction house.
-Thomas Jefferson
Basics for y'all newbs out there:
In D2 people traded UNID'D(unidentified) stuff for cheaper than regular prices. ex. Unattuned lvl 7 runes being traded for a lvl 6 rune vs. a lvl 7 crimson bring traded for a lvl 7 alabaster.
Instead of you ID'n the item and getting garbage ORRRRRR possibly something great! you keep it UNID'd and get more monayyyyy. overall!
However, that really has nothing to do with my post. My concern had to do with trying alternate builds, and being required to stash up to 125 runes. I should not have to fill my entire shared stash with runes to try different spec on ONE toon!!!
And of course, I plan on playing every class. Where am I going to put up to ~600 runes?!?!
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The system that Jay described worked thusly:
1. Runes drop unattuned and colorless.
2. When socketed, runes assume a random color and may also have random attributes.
3. Socketed runes become attached to the skill they were put into.
4. There may be a mechanic to restore a rune to its unattuned state, perhaps through the mystic or jeweler.
Here's my problem with the proposed system: yes, Diablo is a game with random item drops. But what has never been random is your character build. You could put skill points and attribute points wherever you wanted. Runes are a vital part of a character's build now. I think it's very important that players be able to choose how they want to play their character without a randomness factor to it.
Random runes are simply not the same as random gear. This is more akin to choosing to place a skill point in Diablo 2 but having the game randomly pick a skill to put it in.
It just seems too frustrating as is. I'm fine with the rest of the system except for not knowing the color. If I get crap affixes, that's fine (that's a gearing/stat randomization). But having randomness prevent me from using my skills the way I want to use them? That's not fun at all.
You put this perfectly sir.
The difference between a level 6 to level 7 rune is not that huge, You would almost rather find a better set/unique weapon in Inferno than find a level 7 rune. Don't get me wrong, we all want to have level 7 runes ideally,and they are upgrades, but its more for completeness and boasting and our min/max obsession then because of its raw power.
Whether they are Rank6 or Rank7, you will still have to stash tons of runes if you want to play around with specs at all.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
You're ignoring the fact that it appears that regular runestones will drop (as they are items on the site)
You can customise your skills as much as you want with coloured runes, but, once you have a specific build made with level 7 runes, there's nothing you can possibly do to improve them......unless you introduce unattuned runes! Now, if you get a level 7 unattuned rune, it might become the type you want, AND give you a bonus. If it's not the type of rune you want, depending on how big the stat bonuses are, it could make you want to change your build because the random bonus could be something really beneficial.
Just because they are in the item tab does not necessarily mean they drop. They could be there just because they are "crafted" when attuned. Although, I would be ok with this system, assuming it works as you described.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
You probably won't get the best-in-game color the first time you slot a tier 7 rune, but you probably won't get the best-in-game weapon for your class on the first boss fight either. In fact you might even need to trade for it.
Skill points aren't connected to the economy. You can't buy skill points. You can't trade skill points. They don't drop off mobs. They don't vary in quality. They aren't loot.
And yes, runes do behave differently, but so do some types of gear; A slow crossbow, a fast bow, a javalin, and a spear for example. How about a cold-enchanted weapon, a poison enchanted weapon, and a life-steal weapon?
I'd make the "unattune" process use lower level runestones as part of the process. Want to unattune a level 6 runestone? You would need the salvage from a bunch of level 5 runestones - if you set the ratio in line with their drop rates (level 6 stones drop 1/20th as often as level 5's) you'd effectively remove a significant fraction of each preceeding level from the game on a permanent basis. They will have to do something along these lines or every runestone short of level 7's will become boringly common on the AH. With a system like this even a "bad" drop for you retains some value as it can be used later to unattune a high level wildcard rune.
Here's things we don't know:
1. The drop frequency of runes. Jay did mention that level 1 runes would be very common, but that's it. "Very common" in Diablo drop terms doesn't mean you'll be tripping over them.
2. Whether or not both unattuned and colored runes will drop. In Jay's initial interview, he only said that runes would drop unattuned and would need to be placed in a skill before gaining a color and (possibly) affixes. There is some speculation that maybe both drop, and there is additional speculation that that means colored runes won't have affixes but unattuned runes will.
I do not at all understand the argument that more randomness = more replayability. I suppose it's technically true, but it's only replayable if it's fun in the first place. They could make the item drop game even more random by dropping a bunch of items which aren't useful for anything at all. Now you have an even smaller chance of getting something useful when you kill a monster. Does that make the game last longer? Yep. Does it make it more fun? Nope.
Our selection of active skills and runes is ALL WE HAVE to make our character the way we want. They removed attribute points and skill trees and gave us active skills and runes instead. Runes are just not like other items. They're dropped like other items, but they're not just gear, they can radically alter the functionality of your skills. Not having the right color rune for your skill means your build doesn't work. That's not fun randomization, that's frustrating randomization.
I'm fine with SOME randomization on runes. Like maybe I don't get enough crimson drops, that's randomization I can deal with. I'm ok with putting a crimson rune into Frenzy and having a random affix pop up: "+2 to light radius" Ok, that's a crap affix, but at least my skill works the way it's supposed to. I can still have fun finding another crimson rune and trying again for a better affix.
What I don't want to happen is to stick a rune into Arcane Orb and getting Obsidian (if I wanted Crimson). If an obsidian rune had dropped, I could have put it in a different skill where I want the obsidian effect. Ok, I guess I wait for the next rune. When the next rune comes I try again and miss. Until I finally get the right color in my first skill, all my other skills remain unruned. It might take 10 drops before this happens. It might take 10 drops every time I try this. The same process happens every time I get a higher level rune. I just want my build to work the way I designed it.
It's okay if it takes 100 item drops to get an upgrade for your chest armor. Because you can still play the way you want to play in the meantime. And you can salvage what you don't need and turn it into something you do need.
If I were designing the system, I'd do it like this:
1. Runes drop with a color and a level.
2. When placed into a skill, runes become attuned to that skill and won't work in any other skill.
3. When a rune is attuned, it reveals random affixes in addition to the skill effects.
To me, that's randomization that's fun. It's the same type of randomization you get from the item hunt game (searching for better affixes) but still giving you the freedom to play the build you want to play. Locking runes to skills gives you a decision that matters, something that's vital in a game where you can change your active skillset at any time.
I like this idea. It makes sense that a random lvl 7 rune should be more powerfull than a regular lvl 7 rune. Theres a high chance of ending up with a useless lvl 7 rune.
I foresee a lot of trades with unattuned runes, just like we had/have unid torches for trade. It may cost your soul or just a few Pgems. Sucked to be poor in D2