Players will be back on 1.1. By the way im adapting as TS mentioned, from sword and board barb to furious charging 2 hander due to high repair cost, from breaking vases in royal crypts to breaking monster skulls, from farming bosses pre nerf to farming to elite packs. Looking back the first day my barb hit 60,my barb have improved, adapted, and survived. "i cannot be denied":
They are making Diablo 3 operate like an MMO. If I wanted to grind till my fingers bleed, I'd go back to D2.
Fixed that for ya, buddy.
The grind comparison is laughable because, outside of a very few instances, WoW has done a great job listening to the community and eliminating grinds. If you were to compare D3 to a WoW grind, after 2-3 weeks of 1 hour of amazingly easy dailies you'd have a vendor unlocked which would just sell you items.
That doesn't sound remotely comparable.
If you are a wrathbaby, you are right.
Classic was like ..
Diablo 3 now
Like I said, Blizzard moved AWAY from classic grinds, so the comparison is still dogshit.
Comparing D3 to WoW 7 years ago achieves what again? Especially when Blizzard has moved away from that model for WoW?
Saying that if you wanted to grind you'd play an MMO is so ignorant of what most MMOs are nowadays that it discredits anything else that could be said. People play D3 for a grind, they don't play an MMO for a grind. What damned world are you trolls living on?
They are making Diablo 3 operate like an MMO. If I wanted to grind till my fingers bleed, I'd go back to D2.
Fixed that for ya, buddy.
The grind comparison is laughable because, outside of a very few instances, WoW has done a great job listening to the community and eliminating grinds. If you were to compare D3 to a WoW grind, after 2-3 weeks of 1 hour of amazingly easy dailies you'd have a vendor unlocked which would just sell you items.
That doesn't sound remotely comparable.
I played D2 and WoW for years. You know what's the difference?
D2 was a casual game. Yes I grinded. But I'd stop when I got bored and would never shed a tear when Blizzard deleted my toons after 90 days of inactivity.
Now, when you play an MMO, you have a long-term relationship. And while the grindy aspect has been lowered from Vanilla to Cata, it was still there - but it made a certain sense because that's your "main", a toon that exists for years and will keep on.
Back then, when me and my guildies got tired of raid farming, we would fire up D2... and we would have a blast! No worries, no commitment... the grind/farm was for fun and not for necessity.
its not simply because of nerfs that is making people quit. with every patch, blizzard is pretty much narrowing the game down to exactly how they want the game to be played. there is absolutely nothing wrong with smashing vases for loot or gold, nor changing into mf gear to pop open chest. if the problem is botters, than fix that. don't go eliminating different play styles people enjoy simply cause of that. some days i simply don't wish or have time to endlessly kill packs, as currently that is the only way left to farm now.
i enjoyed a quick 5nv siege run. i enjoyed wearing my mf gear and just run through whimsy and pop some clouds open while trying to dodge mobs, i still die and sometimes i don't get loot at all, but the adrenaline of dodging and trying to speed through surviving as long as possible is fun. i don't want to log on with only the option of farming packs after packs after packs after packs every time. your analogy of lemons is poorly used, in life sometimes you have no options, not so when choosing what or how to play a game.
Just want to point out that the destructible item nerf was to combat botters. For some reason people seem to think that all Blizzard has to do is check a box that says "no botters" and they can get rid of them. What actually happens is they kill one bot, and a dozen more replace it. They'll always be behind. So they took out the easiest things for botters to bot. I'm hoping that they just used a quick fix as a temporary bandaid while they put in a more difficult fix, such as diminishing returns for farming the same area more than a certain number of times in some time length (once per two minutes, don't know what a good rate would be). But even if they don't I find the nerf acceptable, because I agree with the ultimate goal of that - to make a stable player drive economy, which means they have to get rid of methods of farming that unbalance said economy. Same way there are laws in regards to the marketplace, such as dumping, where you sell a bunch of stuff way under value to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices (maybe that one's only an international trade agreement, note sure).
yup, they've eliminated everything fun in the game
Yup, they've improved on D2 in every way possible.
See, I can make blanket opinion statements that are false too. Please to be adding to the discussion. Even if it is just another statement repeating why you and someother people think D3 is worse than D2, as I would assume you'd be making.
it's never ok to penalize legit players when trying to penalize botters/cheaters. this is the same reason people hate drm. companies ruin games trying to stop cheaters/pirates by penalizing legit players also.
The vase nerf was more due the fact the economy was getting artificially inflated very quickly. Pouring too much gold inthe economy is bad in the long run.
Blizzard will do anything to the game to prolong the economic health of the RMAH. They are a business with an obligation to their shareholders to increase their profit as much as possible. To believe that any other "balance" adjustments to do with loot are motivated by anything else would be naive.
They will always try to do what is most fun for the game, but the bottom line is and always will be:RMAH > fun
Just want to point out that the destructible item nerf was to combat botters. For some reason people seem to think that all Blizzard has to do is check a box that says "no botters" and they can get rid of them. What actually happens is they kill one bot, and a dozen more replace it. They'll always be behind. So they took out the easiest things for botters to bot. I'm hoping that they just used a quick fix as a temporary bandaid while they put in a more difficult fix, such as diminishing returns for farming the same area more than a certain number of times in some time length (once per two minutes, don't know what a good rate would be). But even if they don't I find the nerf acceptable, because I agree with the ultimate goal of that - to make a stable player drive economy, which means they have to get rid of methods of farming that unbalance said economy. Same way there are laws in regards to the marketplace, such as dumping, where you sell a bunch of stuff way under value to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices (maybe that one's only an international trade agreement, note sure).
botting has been around since d2. the EXACT same botting method is used in d3. there is no excuse to not be able to stop it. they are too focused on making the game wrapped around RMAH rather than the quality of the game itself. rmah shouldn't even be introduced this early, at least until they have game balanced and sorted out first.
Blizzard will do anything to the game to prolong the economic health of the RMAH. They are a business with an obligation to their shareholders to increase their profit as much as possible. To believe that any other "balance" adjustments to do with loot are motivated by anything else would be naive.
They will always try to do what is most fun for the game, but the bottom line is and always will be:RMAH > fun
Yeah, I guess in the end it all boils down to this. We don't pay a monthly subscription, but we have to keep the AH alive. Thus the artificially hard Inferno... +resistances only in dropped gear...
They are making Diablo 3 operate like an MMO. If I wanted to grind till my fingers bleed, I'd go back to WoW.
ROFL. WoW has never in its entire existence had a tiny fraction of the grinding D2 had. In D2 the ENTIRE GAME completely 100% revolved around world drops. And so does D3. An ARPG has WAY MORE grind than an MMO because an MMO has periodic content expansions whereas once you find the best gear in D3 as it is right now there is nothing left to do in the game.
Yeah, I guess in the end it all boils down to this. We don't pay a monthly subscription, but we have to keep the AH alive. Thus the artificially hard Inferno... +resistances only in dropped gear...
They made Inferno because everyone in D2 for the entire time it was around was asking for something to do with their fully geared Hell characters once they'd beaten the game, and they wanted it to be super hard. So that's what they did.
But no don't mind me continue with the RMAH ZOMG GREEDY CAPITALIST SWINE bleating.
I stopped playing because somehow they just made it feel less fun. I only had 1 IAS item so it's not like I was nerfed very much, but post-1.0.3 I just couldn't justify logging in compared to the fun factor of other games.
that's cause it is less fun. attacking fast is fun. being able to hit the lottery whenever u do anything in the game is fun. whether it's opening a chest, breaking a vase, killing a champion or quest monster, etc. using whatever skill you like is fun. all these things were nerfed.
You haven't seen botters in diablo 3 yet? Also I played solo in diablo 2 with friends. They had 6 years to make this game and it's still isnt finished. Feels like I'm playing vanguard again. Also what were they thinking not making set items and legendary items better than yellow And blues? They have to patch it in rather than making them that good in the first place? You my friend are blind
ROFL. WoW has never in its entire existence had a tiny fraction of the grinding D2 had. In D2 the ENTIRE GAME completely 100% revolved around world drops. And so does D3. An ARPG has WAY MORE grind than an MMO because an MMO has periodic content expansions whereas once you find the best gear in D3 as it is right now there is nothing left to do in the game.
uh what? everything in wow is grinding. grind xp, grind rep, grind badges, grind honor? the main difference is wow has options for you when you are bored with one. they eliminated what little options there were in d3.
you are completely blinded by blizzard if you do not see that d3 is completely revolved around RMAH and micro payments as income. hence why they rushed that feature out first, before trying to balance the game or adding endgame features like pvp, when GAH serves the same exact function. why charge 15% cut and transaction fee if you are simply adding this feature for the "casual players"?
Diablo 2 is fun because (1) promote coop - only botter play solo. (2) it is not gear dependent
Diablo 3 is build around RMAH.
1 - punish coop. The game is much hard playing coop
2 - gear dependent. You cannot kill anything when you are naked.
You didn't play Diablo 2 did you. MF'ing in Diablo 2 was ONLY done solo, botting or no. The only time I went into a public game was to trade, to PvP, or to level, and this was the case for the majority, not the minority. Diablo 2 was also massively gear dependant. You couldn't do solo Hell Baal runs without meeting a minimum gear point, and you certainly couldn't do it naked, just the same as with Diablo 3. Also, the minions in Diablo 2 got harder when people joined your game as well, that's the reason people did public Baal runs, ect. The monsters were harder and you got more EXP. The only complain I can see anyone having about this is the lack of reward for doing public games, you no longer get extra EXP, you get the same amount of EXP which makes leveling a more solo experience for those that want it that way. All in all, go back to D2 if you think its better because you obviously never played it the first time around.
Diablo 2 is fun because (1) promote coop - only botter play solo. (2) it is not gear dependent
Diablo 3 is build around RMAH.
1 - punish coop. The game is much hard playing coop
2 - gear dependent. You cannot kill anything when you are naked.
You didn't play Diablo 2 did you. MF'ing in Diablo 2 was ONLY done solo, botting or no. The only time I went into a public game was to trade, to PvP, or to level, and this was the case for the majority, not the minority. Diablo 2 was also massively gear dependant. You couldn't do solo Hell Baal runs without meeting a minimum gear point, and you certainly couldn't do it naked, just the same as with Diablo 3. Also, the minions in Diablo 2 got harder when people joined your game as well, that's the reason people did public Baal runs, ect. The monsters were harder and you got more EXP. The only complain I can see anyone having about this is the lack of reward for doing public games, you no longer get extra EXP, you get the same amount of EXP which makes leveling a more solo experience for those that want it that way. All in all, go back to D2 if you think its better because you obviously never played it the first time around.
no, you actually can kill hell stuff naked. the spell damage are calculated by your skill points, not your stats or weapon damage. in d3, you hit for 1 or 2 damage when ur naked. there is definitely less incentives for playing coop in this game. main thing i dislike about d3 is the pacing of the game has slowed dramatically compared to d2 (ie. insane cast rates when you break certain ias breakpoints). many of you will say its broken, but i believe its an icon of diablo gameplay(ie. quake w/o rocket jump, which btw is a unintended bug but became part of the franchise). long cooldowns and cooldown management just doesn't feel right in this genre.
Completely agree with what you say*. I quit softcore and started hardcore due to the difficulty nerfs in inferno. I'd cleared Inferno at that point and was already getting bored of it, the nerf just pushed me over the edge. The endgame, which was already sparse, completely disappeared to me, so there was no reason to continue playing softcore. I sold my gear on RMAH, and started from scratch on hardcore and the game was revived. For the time being. No doubt I will be out soon enough if no hard content stays in the game. Farming gear for the gear isn't fun, you need a purpose with the gear, like in Diablo 2.
*Except the part with Diablo not being about identical gear.
Like I said, Blizzard moved AWAY from classic grinds, so the comparison is still dogshit.
Comparing D3 to WoW 7 years ago achieves what again? Especially when Blizzard has moved away from that model for WoW?
Saying that if you wanted to grind you'd play an MMO is so ignorant of what most MMOs are nowadays that it discredits anything else that could be said. People play D3 for a grind, they don't play an MMO for a grind. What damned world are you trolls living on?
I played D2 and WoW for years. You know what's the difference?
D2 was a casual game. Yes I grinded. But I'd stop when I got bored and would never shed a tear when Blizzard deleted my toons after 90 days of inactivity.
Now, when you play an MMO, you have a long-term relationship. And while the grindy aspect has been lowered from Vanilla to Cata, it was still there - but it made a certain sense because that's your "main", a toon that exists for years and will keep on.
Back then, when me and my guildies got tired of raid farming, we would fire up D2... and we would have a blast! No worries, no commitment... the grind/farm was for fun and not for necessity.
To me, this is what made me quit D3.
Just want to point out that the destructible item nerf was to combat botters. For some reason people seem to think that all Blizzard has to do is check a box that says "no botters" and they can get rid of them. What actually happens is they kill one bot, and a dozen more replace it. They'll always be behind. So they took out the easiest things for botters to bot. I'm hoping that they just used a quick fix as a temporary bandaid while they put in a more difficult fix, such as diminishing returns for farming the same area more than a certain number of times in some time length (once per two minutes, don't know what a good rate would be). But even if they don't I find the nerf acceptable, because I agree with the ultimate goal of that - to make a stable player drive economy, which means they have to get rid of methods of farming that unbalance said economy. Same way there are laws in regards to the marketplace, such as dumping, where you sell a bunch of stuff way under value to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices (maybe that one's only an international trade agreement, note sure).
Yup, they've improved on D2 in every way possible.
See, I can make blanket opinion statements that are false too. Please to be adding to the discussion. Even if it is just another statement repeating why you and someother people think D3 is worse than D2, as I would assume you'd be making.
They will always try to do what is most fun for the game, but the bottom line is and always will be: RMAH > fun
botting has been around since d2. the EXACT same botting method is used in d3. there is no excuse to not be able to stop it. they are too focused on making the game wrapped around RMAH rather than the quality of the game itself. rmah shouldn't even be introduced this early, at least until they have game balanced and sorted out first.
Yeah, I guess in the end it all boils down to this. We don't pay a monthly subscription, but we have to keep the AH alive. Thus the artificially hard Inferno... +resistances only in dropped gear...
ROFL. WoW has never in its entire existence had a tiny fraction of the grinding D2 had. In D2 the ENTIRE GAME completely 100% revolved around world drops. And so does D3. An ARPG has WAY MORE grind than an MMO because an MMO has periodic content expansions whereas once you find the best gear in D3 as it is right now there is nothing left to do in the game.
They made Inferno because everyone in D2 for the entire time it was around was asking for something to do with their fully geared Hell characters once they'd beaten the game, and they wanted it to be super hard. So that's what they did.
But no don't mind me continue with the RMAH ZOMG GREEDY CAPITALIST SWINE bleating.
uh what? everything in wow is grinding. grind xp, grind rep, grind badges, grind honor? the main difference is wow has options for you when you are bored with one. they eliminated what little options there were in d3.
you are completely blinded by blizzard if you do not see that d3 is completely revolved around RMAH and micro payments as income. hence why they rushed that feature out first, before trying to balance the game or adding endgame features like pvp, when GAH serves the same exact function. why charge 15% cut and transaction fee if you are simply adding this feature for the "casual players"?
You didn't play Diablo 2 did you. MF'ing in Diablo 2 was ONLY done solo, botting or no. The only time I went into a public game was to trade, to PvP, or to level, and this was the case for the majority, not the minority. Diablo 2 was also massively gear dependant. You couldn't do solo Hell Baal runs without meeting a minimum gear point, and you certainly couldn't do it naked, just the same as with Diablo 3. Also, the minions in Diablo 2 got harder when people joined your game as well, that's the reason people did public Baal runs, ect. The monsters were harder and you got more EXP. The only complain I can see anyone having about this is the lack of reward for doing public games, you no longer get extra EXP, you get the same amount of EXP which makes leveling a more solo experience for those that want it that way. All in all, go back to D2 if you think its better because you obviously never played it the first time around.
no, you actually can kill hell stuff naked. the spell damage are calculated by your skill points, not your stats or weapon damage. in d3, you hit for 1 or 2 damage when ur naked. there is definitely less incentives for playing coop in this game. main thing i dislike about d3 is the pacing of the game has slowed dramatically compared to d2 (ie. insane cast rates when you break certain ias breakpoints). many of you will say its broken, but i believe its an icon of diablo gameplay(ie. quake w/o rocket jump, which btw is a unintended bug but became part of the franchise). long cooldowns and cooldown management just doesn't feel right in this genre.
OMFG Quakes rocket launcher jump? worst example ever, I hated that so much about the game, its cheap, and lame.
*Except the part with Diablo not being about identical gear.
Please, elaborate what vast "purpose" D2 had for the gear?
God help you if you say PvP because you know Blizzard is working on that and it will be patched in.