At some point today (with in the last hour or so) the official calculator was updated again to include making it neccessary to scroll from page to page to select the skill you want to use. Just like it is in game on the beta.
Small thing to notice, but I guess it puts to rest my theory that the internal build might have the old skill list rather than forcing us to scroll from page to page.
WHAT? Damn it. I really liked how it worked and was hoping the web page version would be used as the in-game model as well. Crap, I hope this doesn't mean they're not going to iterate on it.....
Yeah this is awful, I feel blind. It's the exact same feeling as trying to play WoW on a stock UI when you're used to having dozens of addons feeding you pages of data per second.
Yeah this is awful, I feel blind. It's the exact same feeling as trying to play WoW on a stock UI when you're used to having dozens of addons feeding you pages of data per second.
yea its a pretty epically fail change. they just wanted to make it exactly how it is in game though so you get used to it. i think this is just more proof they have zero intentions of changing the UI despite the many QQ's n rage on the main forums
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Also appears they've updated the tool tips as previously they were only showing the simplified tooltips. And you had to mouse over to see the advanced version.
As Bashiok said any change that needs to made isn't worth delaying the release and they feel the game is ready to ship. While I'm not defending how horrible the skill UI is I can manage to play with it. I'd rather play with it than wait another month for the game. I think most would agree with that.
wow.. thats... I have nothing good to say about that.
I understand the reason, I honestly do.. but I dont like it on the web calculator =(
What are the reasons? :PI liked the old one, it was quick and easy. But this? I like to compare skills together, with this it will make comparing 2 skills (something that should be fast and easy) tedious.
What are the reasons? :PI liked the old one, it was quick and easy. But this? I like to compare skills together, with this it will make comparing 2 skills (something that should be fast and easy) tedious.
The reason is that it's uniform. Blizzard likes to make everything easy to understand on their web pages as if they were looking at it in game. that being said, they want the web version to function like the in game version so there's no confusion as to how you would make that build happen in game.
So in other words, they don't want one version of the skill UI to be different from the other because then newer players might expect it to work differently.
I really do miss the old version, however. I defended this new UI as I understand what it's intended to do for new players, but I really want to see improvements to the Elective Mode. *sigh*
[...] I understand what it's intended to do for new players, but I really want to see improvements to the Elective Mode. *sigh*
I dont think its good to consider that new players have the IQ of a small rock. I mean, come on. This amount of "hand holding" is just absurd, and it will frustrate anyone that has played more than 10 minutes.
/rant
.Anyways, its only a calculator, its not really a big deal, but I'm getting tired of this design philosophy.
wow.. thats... I have nothing good to say about that.
I understand the reason, I honestly do.. but I dont like it on the web calculator =(
I think it's pretty terribad either way :S.
There's nothing wrong with the rune system or anything like that - it's just the GAH interface!
I mean, it's sooo arbitrary - why is Firebats secondary, but not Zombie Charger, for example?
It just feels so WRONG not being able to see all your skills at a glance :S. Think of one of Blizzard's design goals with D3 - they didn't want the player to have the leave the game to figure out stuff (the Horadric Cube in D2 would be almost-impossible to use to its full extent without the collective knowledge of the internet), and now they don't let you see all your skills in a single shot.
There's definitely a benefit to being able to appraise all your skill options in one go. I'm really worried that while it may help newbies in the short-term, the interface will hurt them in the long run because they'll get the idea into their heads that certain skills MUST go in certain slots and it'll take a while to break that mentality.
wow.. thats... I have nothing good to say about that.
I understand the reason, I honestly do.. but I dont like it on the web calculator =(
I think it's pretty terribad either way :S.
There's nothing wrong with the rune system or anything like that - it's just the GAH interface!
I mean, it's sooo arbitrary - why is Firebats secondary, but not Zombie Charger, for example?
It just feels so WRONG not being able to see all your skills at a glance :S. Think of one of Blizzard's design goals with D3 - they didn't want the player to have the leave the game to figure out stuff (the Horadric Cube in D2 would be almost-impossible to use to its full extent without the collective knowledge of the internet), and now they don't let you see all your skills in a single shot.
There's definitely a benefit to being able to appraise all your skill options in one go. I'm really worried that while it may help newbies in the short-term, the interface will hurt them in the long run because they'll get the idea into their heads that certain skills MUST go in certain slots and it'll take a while to break that mentality.
The names of the categories often don't even make sense, and the spells that go inside seem almost random.
Look at the wizard categories for example,
Arcane ?!?
Conjuration?!?
Mastery?!?
Arcane - Lets see... Hydra can only be used once. Blizzard and Meteor are expensive AoEs, yet twister is fairly spammable. If you look at the skills, conjuration might be temporary buffs. Mastery, explosive blast and archon...ok those are absolutely nothing alike.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I dont think its good to consider that new players have the IQ of a small rock. I mean, come on. This amount of "hand holding" is just absurd, and it will frustrate anyone that has played more than 10 minutes.
I don't think it's quite that bad. And if you use the randomize feature, you can get a build that will almost always work because they way the skills are categorized. Considering the volumes of skills and runes that you get over the course of the game, I don't think it's a bad thing they wanted to introduce them in a more gated manner.
There's nothing wrong with the rune system or anything like that - it's just the GAH interface!
I mean, it's sooo arbitrary - why is Firebats secondary, but not Zombie Charger, for example?
This is the one thing I do dislike about the new system (aside from the obvious user unfriendly elective mode). Some abilities don't make sence in their current categories. WD having Haunt as a primary instead of Firebats, which is a secondary. Some just need to be moved around. Some are just weird like Demon Hunter has Multi-shot in devices and Sentry in Archery.. DAFUQ?!?! And those are learned within a level of each other so you could swap them without it causing an issue.
Not being able to see all your skills at once, almost makes me feel like the only reason I can still make good builds and have fun using the calculator is because I already have all the skills in my head from doing it so much in the past.
There's one thing missing with this rune system. It would have been nice to have some kind of search, to search something in skills, runes and passives, to help with build synergies.
For example, if you want to build a crit DH, you have to read every skills and every runes, it's really a pain...
Why didn't they lay everything on a page so we can read everything and understand the synergies?...
Seems like another way to prevent new players from choosing the "wrong" skill since now it's harder to choose a skill that doesn't match with a particular category. It seems pretty terrible to me though.
I'm glad I have all these skills memorized or else it would be difficult to make builds this way. The skill calculator was fun because it was really easy to use... this is a downgrade for people who aren't looking to have the game tell them what to do.
yeah, I don't mind how the skills and runes unlock, but the current layout really sucks, it's not even "gamer" friendly, how could it be noob friendly?...
I wonder how this helps a beginner...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Small thing to notice, but I guess it puts to rest my theory that the internal build might have the old skill list rather than forcing us to scroll from page to page.
yea its a pretty epically fail change. they just wanted to make it exactly how it is in game though so you get used to it. i think this is just more proof they have zero intentions of changing the UI despite the many QQ's n rage on the main forums
Also appears they've updated the tool tips as previously they were only showing the simplified tooltips. And you had to mouse over to see the advanced version.
I understand the reason, I honestly do.. but I dont like it on the web calculator =(
What are the reasons? :PI liked the old one, it was quick and easy. But this? I like to compare skills together, with this it will make comparing 2 skills (something that should be fast and easy) tedious.
So in other words, they don't want one version of the skill UI to be different from the other because then newer players might expect it to work differently.
I really do miss the old version, however. I defended this new UI as I understand what it's intended to do for new players, but I really want to see improvements to the Elective Mode. *sigh*
I dont think its good to consider that new players have the IQ of a small rock. I mean, come on. This amount of "hand holding" is just absurd, and it will frustrate anyone that has played more than 10 minutes.
/rant
.Anyways, its only a calculator, its not really a big deal, but I'm getting tired of this design philosophy.
I think it's pretty terribad either way :S.
There's nothing wrong with the rune system or anything like that - it's just the GAH interface!
I mean, it's sooo arbitrary - why is Firebats secondary, but not Zombie Charger, for example?
It just feels so WRONG not being able to see all your skills at a glance :S. Think of one of Blizzard's design goals with D3 - they didn't want the player to have the leave the game to figure out stuff (the Horadric Cube in D2 would be almost-impossible to use to its full extent without the collective knowledge of the internet), and now they don't let you see all your skills in a single shot.
There's definitely a benefit to being able to appraise all your skill options in one go. I'm really worried that while it may help newbies in the short-term, the interface will hurt them in the long run because they'll get the idea into their heads that certain skills MUST go in certain slots and it'll take a while to break that mentality.
The names of the categories often don't even make sense, and the spells that go inside seem almost random.
Look at the wizard categories for example,
Arcane ?!?
Conjuration?!?
Mastery?!?
Arcane - Lets see... Hydra can only be used once. Blizzard and Meteor are expensive AoEs, yet twister is fairly spammable. If you look at the skills, conjuration might be temporary buffs. Mastery, explosive blast and archon...ok those are absolutely nothing alike.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I don't think it's quite that bad. And if you use the randomize feature, you can get a build that will almost always work because they way the skills are categorized. Considering the volumes of skills and runes that you get over the course of the game, I don't think it's a bad thing they wanted to introduce them in a more gated manner.
This is the one thing I do dislike about the new system (aside from the obvious user unfriendly elective mode). Some abilities don't make sence in their current categories. WD having Haunt as a primary instead of Firebats, which is a secondary. Some just need to be moved around. Some are just weird like Demon Hunter has Multi-shot in devices and Sentry in Archery.. DAFUQ?!?! And those are learned within a level of each other so you could swap them without it causing an issue.
For example, if you want to build a crit DH, you have to read every skills and every runes, it's really a pain...
Why didn't they lay everything on a page so we can read everything and understand the synergies?...
I'm glad I have all these skills memorized or else it would be difficult to make builds this way. The skill calculator was fun because it was really easy to use... this is a downgrade for people who aren't looking to have the game tell them what to do.
I wonder how this helps a beginner...