DiabloFans

For me - being around since WAY before the beginning (we are talking years of devouring every detail about the development of D3)..

The thing I love the most is the "redemption" process that the game has undergone. Really, starting with RoS

I have never been more excited for a video game than I was for Diablo 3. And after about 1 year of denial after the launch of Vanilla, I gave up on it.

But Blizzard proved to be up to the task and its the single thing about this game that makes me love it so much nowadays. Blizzard took what was an AMAZING shell of a game and has turned it into an amazing game. They FIXED Diablo 3. So proud of them for being willing to shut down the Auction house. The free updates since RoS launch with so much content each time - its amazing!

When I play Diablo 3 now, I get the same warm, fuzzy feeling that I had back in the day playing Lord of Destruction. Only its even better because we've seen the progress they've made since May 2012. 3 1/2 years and they've turned the game into something awesome - can't wait for more expansions!

I'm going Crusader.

Like you, I was down to DH or Crusader and the deciding factor for me was the free season set for Crusader appeals to me more the DH one. (Invoker vs Shadow)

Also the variations on LoN builds excite me for Crusader allot!

Loot 2.0 is a legendary Hunt. End of story.

Rare items cannot compete (at least at level 60, I've not played the beta to see what its like at level 70).

The game is now broken into these stages of "looting":

Equip anything is an upgrade, can include rares: This will happen while we all level up from 60-70 in RoS

Equip basically any legendary you find because it will be an upgrade: This will happen while leveling and for quite a few hours at level 70.

Start hunting for specific legendaries at level 70: This will take quite a while - weeks, months?

Start grinding gold to dump into the Mystic to reforge your specific legendaries: I would imagine those players who have 1000 billion gold will fly through this step - those of us with less, this could take a very long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with loot 2.0 there is no "hunt for perfectly rolled legendaries" step. You use the Mystic to do that no?

I can see how some people might not like this order of loot progression - but I love it. There is certainly the feeling of "that next great item could be right around the corner" I just worry about the last step in the process.. grind gold to reroll your items perfectly. Though, after that, you can move on to the next class and do it all again.

And this is waay better than play forever without every finding a good item.. like it was before.

If you plan on continuing to play D3 post RoS without buying the xpack, then I can't believe you will care so much about the game to be too broken up about what your missing. Its going to be very very odd if you are a "hardcore" vanilla D3 player..

I remember how excited I was for this game for the 2+ years leading up to launch, I lived on this site every day devouring news!

That was really a great time!

Holy hell..
Now.. Now.. I'm excited BOOYAH!!

So happy!!!!!!@

• ItemPassive_Unique_Ring_512_x1 - Enable all runes for a specific skill.

Are you.. serious.. . . wow

I really want to be excited - this looks amazing!
But, I remember all to well the years leading up to D3.

I LIVED on this website eating up all the info everyday.

So much sounded awesome pre launch - and then it all got scrapped / watered down and generally screwed up before release.

So.. very, very cautiously, I'm getting excited for the possibility that RoS will make this game the game I wanted it to be back then.

Ah crap.. there is that itch again..

This looks amazing..

My big hang-ups are the itemization and the lack of meaningful choices when you level up.

So.. of course I'm buying this, but crossing fingers on the new loot and if the paragon stuff makes you make choices that matter.

Here is hoping they put something in that makes character development feel meaningful

Quote from JKlimek

Hopefully you're reading my post first and I can save you some time.

The TL;DR on this is just move on. This whole thread is terrible, it contains no evidence, only conjecture and about post 4-5 it starts being something that could have been copy/pasted from the bliz threads.

This will be my last response to this thread - I'll let it die in peace.

Many of you have offered vaild points - such as calling me out (thanks Catelpet) for to a certain degree, playing the "holyier than though art" pc gamer card. I hate that. I do in fact love console games (as I tried to make clear in my first post when I said I plan to buy this for consoles).

I - also acknowledge - that alot of this stuff is just MY OPINION. I PERSONALY, do not like Diablo 3. At least not 1/100th as I thought I would.

I think back to Bashiok's commet on the forums, the one that brought on a post form Jay Wilson. Bash said: "Part of my job is to make sure you don't have too haigh of expectations for this game - its just a game" I remeber thinking - wow it really didn't sound like he was joking.

As it turns out, I should have listened to Bash. Diablo 3 is, (for me and my opinion!!) just another game. It was fun, it will make a fun console game. But was it great? Was it what I drooled over for 2+ years day in and day out.. nope.. at leat for me not even close.

So again, this is my last response. You folks who write me off as a hater - count your self lucky if you truly love diablo 3 still. I wish I were with you in that feeling.. I really really do. Go back through (if you care to be bothered) my post history from 2012.. its full of me defending changes that were announces, hoping for the best.

I just really should quit coming to this site. It was such a big part of my daily shcedule for so long. I came here 10, 15, 20+ times a day. So.. even though I don't play any more, and don't like diablo 3 as it is now, I come here out of habbit.. and everyonce in a while make a post to vent about it.

Dissagree with me all you want - but I was one of you - I had never been more excited for a game than this one. Ever. Not even close. I took of 2 weeks of work to play at launch. I WENT OUT OF MY WAY to try to love this game - playing it much past all of my other firends who quit after just a few weeks.

Feel free to just delete this if you want mods - as it was mostly made out of continuing depression for how much I was let down by diablo 3. I wont reply again to the thread.

Quote from Catalept

Look, I know intellectual laziness is par for the course on the internet, but guilt-by-association just doesn't work as anything other than breathless polemic. If you've got a beef with game mechanics, evaluate them on their own merits.

This idea that simplified game controls or mechanics are inherently bad is just PC-gamer self-congratulation wearing a crayon-lettered name-tag saying "Ima gaem critic, no srsly". Being a PC gamer doesn't make you a member of some exclusive club that gets a free +10 int perk... hell, identifying as a "PC gamer" is, IMO, a red flag. You either love games, or you don't... and if you do, don't be so goddam hipster about it. "Oh ya, I was, like, into Blizzard before they sold out.", "I only game on hand-made artisan PCs with ingredients sourced directly from Cybertron."

/puke

I have a PS3, an Xbox, a PS2, had a Dream Cast.. I'm certainly BOTH a console gamer and a PC gamer.

Are there hardcore games on consoles? OF COURSE! (I point to Darksouls or Demon Souls)

But you rambling response doesn't give me anything to take seriously.

Simple of course doesn't automatically = bad. There are simple games that are great! (Tetris anyone?)

But taking what should be a complex game and simplifying it down to what diablo 3 is, isn't good design. it was targeting a larger audience.. one that I argue is console gamers first and foremost.

And - i say again - I gave 2 years of my life to this game (pre launch). I used to joke with my family that I spent more time "thinking about playing" Diablo 3 than I did actualy playing other games during development.

So yes, I feel i have the right, complete with my crayon colored name tag, to comment on how much I think the game failed.

Quote from doctorsin

. I also can't understand how a console port can change people's opinions of a game they have invested hundreds of hours in.

Oh this didn't change my opinion of the game - I've thought it was not a good game for a loong loong time now. This just made it more clear why. To me any way.

Quote from shaggy

Quote from snowhammer

The fact thats its ported to console isn't what got me.. its the realization that its DEVELOPED for consoles - with an obvsious (IMO) biased to that community over the PC community.

The fact that you think D3 was DEVELOPED for consoles is proof that you are severely detached from reality.

Ok. Any more to add there buddy?

I can only comment on the reality I'm seeing play out in front of my eyes. That reality points to Diablo 3 being aimed at simper console gamer's for a long long long time.

I'm just calling it like I see it.

Quote from LordPoekel

I'll take this as an example because you seem to be looking too hard to find anything that might be interpretated as console only design. 6 skills at once is actually pretty ergonomic design if you want to go for a more actiony player experience. Humans only have 5 fingers. Just adding more and more functions that cannot be accessed fast and easily is not good and ergonomic design.

Its like this.. even people who "dont agree with me" (these people like Diablo 3, and are offended by the statement that its deisgned for consoles) say things like this.. that totally back up the fact that its made for a console.

ergonomic design??? Thats what I want in my PC game for sure ..

Quote from doctorsin

I don't understand how this could be such a surprise for some people. Rumours have been flying around about a console port for Diablo 3 for years.

The fact thats its ported to console isn't what got me.. its the realization that its DEVELOPED for consoles - with an obvsious (IMO) biased to that community over the PC community.

Quote from Bagstone

@OP: I'm actually as disappointed about the console announcement as you are, see here. But the "evidence" you provide somehow doesn't work out.

Well.. I'll rephrase the word evidence to "exmaples" if it makes you feel better.

Quote from Bagstone

-Skill system: I have a hard time imagining how the current skill interface, without significant changes, is "optimized" for consoles/game pads. I have seen a variety of games, in particular RPGs, which are clearly ports of console games to PC, and that bothers me. I did not feel this when I played D3 for the first time (though I didn't like the skill interface for a variety of other reasons, but nothing related to consoles). I didn't feel the urge to pick up my game pad and throw away my keyboard.

Your press select to open up the menu screen. You use the D pad to move to the "Skills" tab. You plug in active skills into your unlocked slots. Compare this to trying to manage hunreds of varying levels of skill gems like in the original system. Wouldn't have been hard on a PC (play Path of Exile - the skill gems as items is great) but on a console, it would have NEVER worked.

Quote from Bagstone

-6 skills, yep. Plus a potion. Plus skill interface, inventory, follower, ... just open the key assignment panel, the number of keys you can assign somehow exceeds those of even the craziest game pads I have seen so far.

You only need to easily use 6 skills in Diablo 3 - if you could build characters like some of my PoE characters that have 10+ active skills it wouldn't work on a Console. The 8 Primary buttons cover all of the instant availablity to use needs (6 skills + 2 Potions). All that other crap you list is available in the menu.. that you open by pressing start or select... its like you have never played a Console Game before? (possible)

Quote from Bagstone

-Linearity: I've read of this dead horse a couple of times now, but I really don't get where people see "linearity" in Keep 2. In MP games it's virtually impossible to stay together in this madness of dead-end streets.

Dead Horse? Ok. You think Diablo 3 isn't linear. I do. Fair enough. Different Opinions.

Quote from Bagstone

-Simple stats: what does this have to do with console games? There are more complex games on PC and on console, and there are simpler games on PC and on console. It's a design decision, and it's been made because balancing a few stats is easier than hundred different variables (and even though it's simpler it's still not balanced yet).

"Its made because ballancing a few stats is EASIER than a hundred different variables"
Bingo, thank you for re-stating my point. EVERY design choice went the rout of mindless and easy. What do console gamers like (The majority of them - like my brother I mention above)? Easy and simple. Again, my whole point here is that Diablo 3 was made for THESE people. People who like easy and mindless.

Quote from Bagstone

-Simple gear: same as stats. Btw, they need to change a lot for the console game by your logic, because D3 right now is all about spread sheets.

Wow.. what game are you playing that you need a spread sheet? There are no choices.. no meaningfull choices that require a spread sheet.

Path of Exile though? I've opened up a spread sheet 10+ times already. How much Mana and Energy Shield will I need to be able to run 5 Auras if I use the Eldritch Battery passive node? Wow thats alot! What level should I stop leveling up my auras so I can still run them with my desired amount of Mana? Questions.. complex questions like these dont exisit in Diablo 3.

Quote from Bagstone

-4 players only: It's an arbitrary number they've chosen at some point, I think they even provided reasoning for that; but seriously, what would keep them to just reduce the number of players in the console version of the game? Nothing.

To save development time? Thats whats frustrating to me. THIS feels like a case of: Diabl 3 was being pre-lauched for PC, for the actual console launhc. You are right, they could have left 6 players in the game. I'm saying (sure I could be tinfoil hatting) that this choice had just as much to do with "4 is best for console split screen" as it did with being good for the PC game, Diablo 3. Maybe more.

Quote from Bagstone

-Lack of game creation/names: Is SC2 also available on consoles right now? Because you don't have game names there, either. And to be honest, I don't miss them. "ONLY PROS PLX NO DL NO NOOBS JOIN DA MASTA" doesn't help me more than joining a random game on the act 3 quest to kill Azmodan. (Not saying the current system is better, but again it's just a different design decision and not one with consoles in mind.)

You can make games with names in SC2 - custom games!!
This is a Culture thing - does lack of game creating automatically mean bad game? Of course not! Thats what I didn't cry bloody murder in development about this topic. It does show that a certain mindset was present for D3's development, one that didn't have hard core PC gamers in mind.
Hard core PC gamers (the culture) expects certain things.. like being able to create game lobbies.

Quote from Bagstone

Battle.net, online-only, no local co-op play, no local storing of files (as necessary by Playstation guidelines as someone mentioned earlier), an interface that completely revolves around mouse use only and not a single thing about the interface that makes me want to pick up a game pad - these are my arguments for why D3 was not designed for a console. Oh, and btw, the proof that Greed1337 thankfully provided, showing that until 15 months ago they didn't even have console developers nor a clue about their direction for a console game.

I'm sorry - you believe Jay Wilson's interview, and take that link as "proof" they didn't have a console team? Nothing that came out of Blizzard during development turned out to be correct or true. I'm not sure why you believe that. I don't buy that for one second. The powers that be (Bobby!!!) had this is mind for much much much longer than 15 months.

Quote from CardinalMDM

Wow...really hard to take such an intelligent post serious with so many spelling errors, but I'll try...

Thanks for putting forth the effort - I love it when people stoop to grammer insults
I'm a product of the fast paced world of gaming online - where spelling doesnt matter (only comprehension).

Quote from CardinalMDM

Been a while since you played, huh? Your profile says last week. And nice Monk main, by the way. Love how you say the skill system is basically for simpletons, yet your Monk's skill loadout is cookie cutter to everyone else's Thunderclap/Overawe/Sweeping Wind routine. I'm sure a complex PC gamer like yourself must've taken a long time slotting those skills into their skill bar and feeling about as leet as every other schmuck wearing a Vile Ward, Inna's Helm, Chest and Pants, and Nat's boots.

Yes, I did indeed log into see the new patch - quickly realized how pointless that was, and then went back to Path of Exile.

And yes, my monk is Cookie cutter - It wouldn't matter if I explained that my monk was built that way since Launch day, and that my Monk probably was one of the first Monks to use that load out.. so I won't bother. I'm not sure I see what you arguing here?

Are you saying that if I really wanted a more hardcore game I would be using an inferior load out, that requires nothing more than swapping some skills around on my next load up? If you are arguing that then I have nothing to add ..

Except this.. your comments are just doing nothing but backing up what I'm saying. I don't feel any diffeernt than anyother smuck Monk out there. And even if I was different, what would it matter? Some one else can just switch their skills over to mine any way.

Quote from CardinalMDM

Oh, and...I highly doubt you FOUND those items...which means you BOUGHT all the best items on the AH, AND are using a cookie cutter build on your main. Well done proving who "good" you are.

OF COURSE I didn't find those items. Fosh no! I found my Inna's helm if I remeber correctly. The rest I saved gold for and bought. THis is another WHOLE arguement about why I don't like diablo 3 that I won't get in to because I think its off topic. But, the Acution house (Gold one too) is a cancer in Diablo 3. Sucked all the fun out of it for me. Again thanks for making more points for me.

Quote from CardinalMDM

This is what happens so often. People insult this game and call it "simple," yet they take the easiest possible route to the end.

Again, I took this build because its the best (I didnt read about the build, I made the build.. its not hard.. of course its not.. its Diablo 3). I'm not the type of gamer, by the way, do go make a new character on MP10 and use crapy skills just to say i did. At least no in this game. Its just not built that way.

But in a game like Poe!? I have 12 characters already.. all of them different. All of them with different gear needs. All of them unique. Its actualy fun to pick a skill and figure out a way to make it over powered. Why? Because its a complex game. I'm not going to try to jery rig diablo 3 into being complex.. thats a differnt way to play that I'm not interested in.

Quote from CardinalMDM

Yes...anything you do where you take the easiest route to the end is going to look insanely simple. Diablo 2, there wasn't many easy routes, if there were any at all. Then again, you call out D3's "linear randomness" as a problem, yet somehow, Diablo 2's "randomly generated environments" were so much better? Giant squares where paths, objects and enemies were mixed up, and the only way to advance was to find the little opening to the next giant square? Yeah, that was impressive game design. And you do realize how many thousands of people MapHacked D2 so they didn't have to deal with random maps, right? I'm sure you do. Truth is, it's an easy parlor trick, plenty of other games replicated it, and many failed. D2 succeeded because of its solid gameplay and how much players could do with classes to build them.

Here we go.. justifying Diablo 3's short falls by saying "well diablo 2 didn't do that good at all". I'm done with that game. I'm not talking about Diablo 2 - other than I revere it like no other game.

Quote from CardinalMDM

They say they love how skill trees and stat points offer "permanent" choice. Yeah? And how many D2 players had a million different toons, rerolled and restarted a BILLION other toons? Because they like "permanent" choice? Eh. People power-leveling each other to 60 on a Saturday afternoon really downgraded that whole "permanence" thing.

Again.. Look at Path of Exile rather than Diablo 2. Character build Permance (to me - I acknowledge its a prefernce) gives a game massive amounts of replayability.

Quote from CardinalMDM

You say the gear is simple, and that no one wants to use a spreadsheet on a console...implying that people who play PC games love spreadsheets? I'm sure you love hanging around spreadsheets while wearing a cookie cutter gear build like your Monk has on.

LoL.. you don't even read. I never, not once, felt the need to use a spread sheet while playing diablo 3. Yes, i do love to use spread sheets. I do ALOT in path of exile.

Quote from CardinalMDM

Look...keep underestimating this game and keep justifying its existence by implying it was designed for idiots who play console games. D2 was insanely simple, it was just hard for casuals to succeed at.

No.. you have that backwards. I overestimated this game. for 2+ years I overestimated how good it would be. I had faith it would stick to its roots. i had faith it would take thought (somthing my perfect example of a cookie cutter monk shows) to build characters. None of that faith proved warented. So no, I'm finsihed OVERestimating this game. No underestimating going on here. If anything, I still have a shred of hope that the game gets overhauled in an expansion.. that is the truly niave fanboy in my still wishing Blizzard got it right with D3.

Quote from CardinalMDM

One of the reasons many people are "dissatisfied" with D3...because it's mainstream. If it were still an underground guilty pleasure, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion. But it's had commercials on TV, much bigger promotion, and many more casuals are trying it out and liking it.

Why do you think so many people play Path of Exile? Because of its "complexity"? Or because they can feel totally hip in the gaming community because they're NOT playing mainstream Diablo?

One of the first things you've said that I agree with. Mainstream is exactly why Im dissatisfied with Diablo 3. But its not simply because its "mainstream" - mainstream isn't bad (Diablo 2 was mainstream!) its because the defination of "mainstream" in this case is "for the masses" - or to get back to my topic point "For console gamers".

Argh.. makes me sick.