Wrathful Protector
Summon a more powerful Gargantuan that only lasts for 15 seconds. The Gargantuan's fists burn with fire, dealing 55% of your weapon damage as Fire and knocking enemies back. Unlocks at Level 39
Restless Giant
When the Gargantuan encounters an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies, it enrages for 15 seconds gaining:
20% movement speed
35% attack speed
200% Physical damage
This effect cannot occur more than once every 120 seconds. Elite enemies include champions, rares, bosses, and other players. Unlocks at Level 29
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Can someone please explain to me the reason why wrathful protector would ever be chosen over restless giant? restless giant seems much better and is offered at a lower level and requires less micro management.
Wrathfull protector is ALWAYS on... that's the difference..
Though the garg only lasts 15 secs
right... and so does the restless giant effect last 15 seconds; cept the restless giant is always around so its effective even when not turbo charged for 15 seconds.
i cant think of a reason why id ever want to pop wrathful protector unless I "encounter an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies" (ie: those times that restless giant proc on its own anyways)
furthermore the damage output isnt even comparable. Restless Giant does 200% and has attack and movement speed bonuses which just the same as even more DPS. The wrathful protector's damage doesnt seem to compare. Even with the 2 min CD of restless giant, the damage output is so much more not to mention restless giant is doing damage even when the CD is up. Wrathful Protector does not.
Wrathfull protector is ALWAYS on... that's the difference..
Though the garg only lasts 15 secs
right... and so does the restless giant effect last 15 seconds; cept the restless giant is always around so its effective even when not turbo charged for 15 seconds.
i cant think of a reason why id ever want to pop wrathful protector unless I "encounter an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies" (ie: those times that restless giant proc on its own anyways)
furthermore the damage output isnt even comparable. Restless Giant does 200% and has attack and movement speed bonuses which just the same as even more DPS. The wrathful protector's damage doesnt seem to compare. Even with the 2 min CD of restless giant, the damage output is so much more not to mention restless giant is doing damage even when the CD is up. Wrathful Protector does not.
The thing is that it says 200% physical damage - not 200% weapon damage. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that due to this wording: they mean his damage is doubled from what it is - not double your weapon damage.
That means it IS compareable.
I do think that there would never be a reason to use the first one though..
I think wrathful needs buffed... if the tooltip is correct, I will never use it. I like the idea of a burst of damage for 15 seconds... but it's not balanced correctly. It needs to be a bigger damage boost if I'm giving up 45 seconds of garg uptime.
wrathful protector is cool if you have the grave injustice passive and your killing at a decent speed so you can re-summon him a lot quicker. other than that yea it pales in comparison, even if the dmg of the other is only doubled thats still 50% weapon damage and FASTER attack speed/move speed + active at all times.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Wrathful Protector
Summon a more powerful Gargantuan that only lasts for 15 seconds. The Gargantuan's fists burn with fire, dealing 55% of your weapon damage as Fire and knocking enemies back. Unlocks at Level 39
Restless Giant
When the Gargantuan encounters an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies, it enrages for 15 seconds gaining:
20% movement speed
35% attack speed
200% Physical damage
This effect cannot occur more than once every 120 seconds. Elite enemies include champions, rares, bosses, and other players. Unlocks at Level 29
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can someone please explain to me the reason why wrathful protector would ever be chosen over restless giant? restless giant seems much better and is offered at a lower level and requires less micro management.
Just another case where some runes simply suck is all.
A rune that turns your awesome tank into a pathetic DPS cooldown? No thanks. Thats almost like a bad joke.
v/s
A rune that turns your awesome tank into an awesome DPS/Tank when you need him the boost in dmg the most. Amazing. The CD is an extra minute longer, but who cares? Chances are you won't run into another elite pack or boss within 2 minutes of one another.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Wrathful Protector
Summon a more powerful Gargantuan that only lasts for 15 seconds. The Gargantuan's fists burn with fire, dealing 55% of your weapon damage as Fire and knocking enemies back. Unlocks at Level 39
Restless Giant
When the Gargantuan encounters an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies, it enrages for 15 seconds gaining:
20% movement speed
35% attack speed
200% Physical damage
This effect cannot occur more than once every 120 seconds. Elite enemies include champions, rares, bosses, and other players. Unlocks at Level 29
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can someone please explain to me the reason why wrathful protector would ever be chosen over restless giant? restless giant seems much better and is offered at a lower level and requires less micro management.
Just another case where some runes simply suck is all.
A rune that turns your awesome tank into a pathetic DPS cooldown? No thanks. Thats almost like a bad joke.
v/s
A rune that turns your awesome tank into an awesome DPS/Tank when you need him the boost in dmg the most. Amazing. The CD is an extra minute longer, but who cares? Chances are you won't run into another elite pack or boss within 2 minutes of one another.
ya exactly. ESPECIALLY in inferno. no way you'll be killing fast enough to face more then 1 elite per 2 minutes unless they are in the same room. itll take u almost 2 minutes just to kill one lol
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I will be using the wrathful protector in group plays. I think gargauntan can go down pretty quick in a 4 man game inferno
disagree. already been confirmed by blue that pets scale well with regards to difficulty and number of players in game. In short, as mobs become harder to kill your pets also become harder to kill. will know for sure once game goes live but still... im inclined to believe blue posts at this point.
I will be using the wrathful protector in group plays. I think gargauntan can go down pretty quick in a 4 man game inferno
disagree. already been confirmed by blue that pets scale well with regards to difficulty and number of players in game. In short, as mobs become harder to kill your pets also become harder to kill. will know for sure once game goes live but still... im inclined to believe blue posts at this point.
ya that wouldnt make much sense if your pets life didnt scale. because if they already die relatively quickly then mobs with 45% extra dmg will faceroll them which doesnt add up to what jay said.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
The damages aren't that comparable like others have said.
Lets say you have 100 weapon damage. Gargantuan normally does 25 damage, with restless giant it's +200%, which means the damage is 3x higher, in other words 75 (+100% = 2x, +200% = 3x). Gargantuan with wrathful protector does 55 damage. In this example, Restless giant does ~36% more damage than wrathful protector (75/55 = 1,3636).
I was going to say "none of you considers the level requirement", but then I noticed that you get wrathful protector 10 levels later than restless giant. I wouldn't say this is an useless rune, but it definitely requires a certain type of build to make it more viable, while restless giant fits better to most builds.
I does not add 200% damage.. it is just "200%" damage..so damage is doubled..not tripled.
And again..we have no idea how powerful that knockback will be but it could be very useful in later difficulties.
I don't think so, the bullet points should almost be read as + signs.
For example by your reasoning, if he does 200% normal dmg instead of 200% additional dmg, than he also attacks at 35% attack speed, and moves at 20% of normal speed.
By our reasoning, he attacks an additional 35% faster, and moves an additional 20% faster.
The damages aren't that comparable like others have said.
Lets say you have 100 weapon damage. Gargantuan normally does 25 damage, with restless giant it's +200%, which means the damage is 3x higher, in other words 75 (+100% = 2x, +200% = 3x). Gargantuan with wrathful protector does 55 damage. In this example, Restless giant does ~36% more damage than wrathful protector (75/55 = 1,3636).
I was going to say "none of you considers the level requirement", but then I noticed that you get wrathful protector 10 levels later than restless giant. I wouldn't say this is an useless rune, but it definitely requires a certain type of build to make it more viable, while restless giant fits better to most builds.
It could be 200% wpn dmg, or it could be 75% wpn dmg.
It's hard to tell with only a bullet point format.
I would lean towards 75% since it says 200% physical dmg, instead of 200% wpn dmg as physical.
Describe a situation in which its not useless....The knockback? How do you even know which direction he is going to knock mobs back? He could very well knock them into your face.
Burst dmg is obviously in favor of Restless Giant.
Overall Dmg wise its also clearly one sided.
75% for 15 seconds + 25% FOR 105 seconds
v./s
55% for 15 seconds+ 0% for 45 seconds.
I just can't see someone making an argument for this thing...its like trying to defend magic missile -split.
Some runes just suck ass.
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Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
I think the 15sec version would fit in a nuker build.
EDIT: Looking at Barbarian's skill Wrath of Berserker, the bullet pointing is similar, which is why I believe it means +20% speed, +35% atk speed and +200% damage for Gargantuan as well. I know for sure that Wrath of Berserker increases the stats for the barbarian.
very good point. this makes me believe it is +200% and not just 200%
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
personally i think it's a situational ability. What's the point of having the gargantuan? CC, it doesn't do much damage and you plan on using other abilities for dps anyway. I'd assume that in a situation like a champion pack, a gargantuan with the restless giant buff may end up dying faster then you think. Using wrathful protector gives him a knockback that will probably help him live for that 15 seconds and also cause him to do a decent amount of AOE dmg. restless giant is all single target.
What it comes down to is playstyle. you've all confirmed you'd rather have a constant pet that will do constant dmg and have an enrage. that's your playstyle. Same like the barb forums. almost 75% of the posters there hate Wrath of the Berzerker because they'd rather have short cd abilities that they can use more often then having to wait 120 seconds to use an ability for 15 seconds. I think it could be useful in situations but that's a big "if" you just never know till you play. And saying that it's completely useless and that restless giant will be better 100% of the time is a very naive statement. you haven't played through the whole game you haven't beaten inferno nor even seen it. how can you make that statement?
AoE damage from wrathful protector? What makes you think it's AoE damage? It would be useful then, but the tooltip says nothing about AoE.
Assuming it's not AoE damage, I would prefer humongoid against packs of monsters and restless giant for rares and bosses. That would be true even IF wrathful lasted forever It needs buffed (unless it actually does AoE damage)
I don't know if i'll be playing WD, but I think it would depend on both of the skills' cooldowns. If they are both the same, then I would just use wrathful during a "burn" phase on a bosses or Restless during normal progression of farming mobs/rares/champs/etc.
(BTW, I realize they are both the same skill, but I'm refering to if they do future tweaks that affect each of the runes' cooldowns)
You guys have to realize that they are designing D3 to be a mix and match game where you pick one or multiple builds that you think are fun and just go with it. Do you want your big guy to do burst damage or do you need your big guy to be a constant companion that compliments your other skills? That's the question.
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Some people tell me I'm going to hell. I just let them know that I've already packed my bags!
AoE damage from wrathful protector? What makes you think it's AoE damage? It would be useful then, but the tooltip says nothing about AoE.
Assuming it's not AoE damage, I would prefer humongoid against packs of monsters and restless giant for rares and bosses. That would be true even IF wrathful lasted forever It needs buffed (unless it actually does AoE damage)
Even if it did aoe, I wouldn't turn my best tank pet that does a steady stream of dmg into a mediocre dps CD ability.
No matter how you slice it Restless giant will do far far more dmg on average, and you maintain your tank pet.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Some runes simply suck. Ofc it needs to be tested (once D3 tooltips are messed up) but based on the info we have, even with full 60 seconds duration, all other types of Gargantua beats him once they give about the same damage bonus/cc/AoE but have no duration limit.
Restless Giant bonus works only on Elites - elsewhere is just normal Gargantuan that hits for almost nothing - just a meat shield
Wrathful Protector works whenever you got cooldown
You mean Elites and Bosses AND anytime there are more than 5 enemies in the area. Those are the only three times I can think of being threatened - Bosses, Elites, and mobs of normal...mobs.
I don't know if it's been mentioned but you can recast Gargantuan with Restless Giant and it resets his Cool Down.
So, on top of having something that can take a few hits, be around all the time, and can enrage twice if you do it right on certain monsters. In my opinion it's better.
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Summon a more powerful Gargantuan that only lasts for 15 seconds. The Gargantuan's fists burn with fire, dealing 55% of your weapon damage as Fire and knocking enemies back.
Unlocks at Level 39
Restless Giant
When the Gargantuan encounters an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies, it enrages for 15 seconds gaining:
20% movement speed
35% attack speed
200% Physical damage
This effect cannot occur more than once every 120 seconds. Elite enemies include champions, rares, bosses, and other players.
Unlocks at Level 29
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can someone please explain to me the reason why wrathful protector would ever be chosen over restless giant? restless giant seems much better and is offered at a lower level and requires less micro management.
right... and so does the restless giant effect last 15 seconds; cept the restless giant is always around so its effective even when not turbo charged for 15 seconds.
i cant think of a reason why id ever want to pop wrathful protector unless I "encounter an elite enemy or is near 5 enemies" (ie: those times that restless giant proc on its own anyways)
furthermore the damage output isnt even comparable. Restless Giant does 200% and has attack and movement speed bonuses which just the same as even more DPS. The wrathful protector's damage doesnt seem to compare. Even with the 2 min CD of restless giant, the damage output is so much more not to mention restless giant is doing damage even when the CD is up. Wrathful Protector does not.
The thing is that it says 200% physical damage - not 200% weapon damage. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that due to this wording: they mean his damage is doubled from what it is - not double your weapon damage.
That means it IS compareable.
I do think that there would never be a reason to use the first one though..
Just another case where some runes simply suck is all.
A rune that turns your awesome tank into a pathetic DPS cooldown? No thanks. Thats almost like a bad joke.
v/s
A rune that turns your awesome tank into an awesome DPS/Tank when you need him the boost in dmg the most. Amazing. The CD is an extra minute longer, but who cares? Chances are you won't run into another elite pack or boss within 2 minutes of one another.
Epicurus
ya exactly. ESPECIALLY in inferno. no way you'll be killing fast enough to face more then 1 elite per 2 minutes unless they are in the same room. itll take u almost 2 minutes just to kill one lol
disagree. already been confirmed by blue that pets scale well with regards to difficulty and number of players in game. In short, as mobs become harder to kill your pets also become harder to kill. will know for sure once game goes live but still... im inclined to believe blue posts at this point.
ya that wouldnt make much sense if your pets life didnt scale. because if they already die relatively quickly then mobs with 45% extra dmg will faceroll them which doesnt add up to what jay said.
I don't think so, the bullet points should almost be read as + signs.
For example by your reasoning, if he does 200% normal dmg instead of 200% additional dmg, than he also attacks at 35% attack speed, and moves at 20% of normal speed.
By our reasoning, he attacks an additional 35% faster, and moves an additional 20% faster.
It could be 200% wpn dmg, or it could be 75% wpn dmg.
It's hard to tell with only a bullet point format.
I would lean towards 75% since it says 200% physical dmg, instead of 200% wpn dmg as physical.
Describe a situation in which its not useless....The knockback? How do you even know which direction he is going to knock mobs back? He could very well knock them into your face.
Burst dmg is obviously in favor of Restless Giant.
Overall Dmg wise its also clearly one sided.
75% for 15 seconds + 25% FOR 105 seconds
v./s
55% for 15 seconds+ 0% for 45 seconds.
I just can't see someone making an argument for this thing...its like trying to defend magic missile -split.
Some runes just suck ass.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
very good point. this makes me believe it is +200% and not just 200%
What it comes down to is playstyle. you've all confirmed you'd rather have a constant pet that will do constant dmg and have an enrage. that's your playstyle. Same like the barb forums. almost 75% of the posters there hate Wrath of the Berzerker because they'd rather have short cd abilities that they can use more often then having to wait 120 seconds to use an ability for 15 seconds. I think it could be useful in situations but that's a big "if" you just never know till you play. And saying that it's completely useless and that restless giant will be better 100% of the time is a very naive statement. you haven't played through the whole game you haven't beaten inferno nor even seen it. how can you make that statement?
Assuming it's not AoE damage, I would prefer humongoid against packs of monsters and restless giant for rares and bosses. That would be true even IF wrathful lasted forever It needs buffed (unless it actually does AoE damage)
(BTW, I realize they are both the same skill, but I'm refering to if they do future tweaks that affect each of the runes' cooldowns)
You guys have to realize that they are designing D3 to be a mix and match game where you pick one or multiple builds that you think are fun and just go with it. Do you want your big guy to do burst damage or do you need your big guy to be a constant companion that compliments your other skills? That's the question.
Even if it did aoe, I wouldn't turn my best tank pet that does a steady stream of dmg into a mediocre dps CD ability.
No matter how you slice it Restless giant will do far far more dmg on average, and you maintain your tank pet.
Epicurus
So, on top of having something that can take a few hits, be around all the time, and can enrage twice if you do it right on certain monsters. In my opinion it's better.