With the other thread getting derailed into a petty argument last night and as a result closed, I figured it would only be fair to Myk_Kudybka to recreate the topic with his/her original idea in mind. That idea being a discussion where people give their opinion(s) on whether they like the skill (or think its viable) or not, and why.
Hopefully this time people can remain on topic, and not base their opinions solely on their disagreements with the opinions of others. Lets make it a constructive thread where someone torn on whether to give the skill a shot can perhaps find the answers they're looking for.
Anyways, my opinion of the skill being not only viable, but useful, stems from a few things:
pathing allows casting on any enemy viewable onscreen
as many applications at any point in time as a player would like
additional damage type (besides poison or physical)
low mana cost (low enough that come endgame, casting should be "free")
It's one of those spells you have to cast at multiple targets to be useful. If you keep doing it at the same dude, you are wasting your time. It's a lot like DH's bola shot that way. LOS causes problems with targeting of course.
Resentful Spirit does around 170-185% over 3-4 seconds. So with that it becomes usefull.
Cant see any real purpose to use it otherwise, in 15 sec you would have done more dmg with firebomb
That rune makes the skill even worse than un-runed version. You halve the dmg, but it still takes the same time to cast it. Lots of abilities the warlock has will do that much dmg or more instantly!
It's great when runed, return mana would allow you to spam more high damage skills and since Haunt lasts 15 sec you wouldn't have to recast it that often, also a 15 sec slow on bosses might not be a bad thing.
It only nets 9 mana if it goes the full duration. 0.6 mana per second per haunt is hardly anything significant.
I found a blue dagger and wanga doll that each had +2 mana per second on them.
Think about that for a second. Casting SEVEN haunts to regen mana at level 60 will be doing comparable to 2 affixes on some level 5 blues.
It's one of those spells you have to cast at multiple targets to be useful. If you keep doing it at the same dude, you are wasting your time. It's a lot like DH's bola shot that way. LOS causes problems with targeting of course.
Bola shot explodes multiple times on the same mob.
Haunt will just refresh the duration if you hit the same target with it.
Also if haunt isn't worth using once, then its certainly not worth using a lot.
In an aoe situation the dmg output is small compared to an aoe ability. In a single target situation the dmg output is better than most alternatives, but not so much it actually merits a spot imo. An extra ~150% weapon dmg over 15 seconds is hardly worth a skill slot you can you use for defensive/offensive purposes.
The only thing it has going for it is that its cheap. But so what? Mana doesn't even seem to be much of a problem from what I can tell.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
I appreciate someone deciding to re-create the original topic that was forced to be locked. Hopefully, it will fare better this time around :D.
From what I have seen, Haunt does very minimal damage to the point where I will likely never use it as a damage dealer. However, I personally think it can still be a greatly useful skill with the variety of the rune skill choices it offers, as the already OP mentioned.
For me, I will use Haunt to heal the WD over time with Consuming Spirit while I use much stronger attacks (Firebats for the win) to offset the lack of DoT. Overall, I still believe Haunt will be useful in almost any situation.
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"We have a hockey stick in one hand, a beer in the other, we all wear toques and live in igloos. Right, world?"
Best used for a boss and possibly champions. In most normal circumstances there are better abilities to pick. I'll be "cheap" and probably swap in haunt for bosses.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
The skill has tons of depth to it, meaning you can use it in creative ways. Ie; find the killstreak video that involves a WD running through cathedral with only haunt. It was the most intriguing kill streak video because it didn't require any previous setup (like the DH in the fields) or sitting in one spot and farming continual spawns.
Resentful Spirit does around 170-185% over 3-4 seconds. So with that it becomes usefull.
Cant see any real purpose to use it otherwise, in 15 sec you would have done more dmg with firebomb
That rune makes the skill even worse than un-runed version. You halve the dmg, but it still takes the same time to cast it. Lots of abilities the warlock has will do that much dmg or more instantly!
It's great when runed, return mana would allow you to spam more high damage skills and since Haunt lasts 15 sec you wouldn't have to recast it that often, also a 15 sec slow on bosses might not be a bad thing.
It only nets 9 mana if it goes the full duration. 0.6 mana per second per haunt is hardly anything significant.
I found a blue dagger and wanga doll that each had +2 mana per second on them.
Think about that for a second. Casting SEVEN haunts to regen mana at level 60 will be doing comparable to 2 affixes on some level 5 blues.
It's one of those spells you have to cast at multiple targets to be useful. If you keep doing it at the same dude, you are wasting your time. It's a lot like DH's bola shot that way. LOS causes problems with targeting of course.
Bola shot explodes multiple times on the same mob.
Haunt will just refresh the duration if you hit the same target with it.
Also if haunt isn't worth using once, then its certainly not worth using a lot.
In an aoe situation the dmg output is small compared to an aoe ability. In a single target situation the dmg output is better than most alternatives, but not so much it actually merits a spot imo. An extra ~150% weapon dmg over 15 seconds is hardly worth a skill slot you can you use for defensive/offensive purposes.
The only thing it has going for it is that its cheap. But so what? Mana doesn't even seem to be much of a problem from what I can tell.
clueless boy is clueless
unruned 23,33% dmg per sec vs runed 60% dmg per sec. Yeah, very SUCKY indeed *facepalm*
Apparently you don't know how to properly calculate dps. The legnth of the DoT isn't the time frame you are interested in....its how long it takes to cast it, which is the same for all skills. Calculating the dmg per second using the duration of the DoT is pretty much meaningless. Any DoT with a long duration would seem worthless compared to one with a short duration.
Dmg/cast time tells you the effective dps of that skill comapred to others. Which is why blizzard usually tells you the dmg of the ability over its full duration, instead of how much it does per second.
That rune is absolutely terrible....You turn haunt into something that does the same dmg as Poison dart - splinters, but splinters is instant. So why would you ever want to use that runed version of haunt?
The only use for haunt is to slightly incresase your dmg on bosses and even thats mediocre at best, but that rune totally removes that single function.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
In a maximum theoretical single target rotation, you will use the 15 second haunt.
Otherwise, I'd skip it. (For PVE)
this. haunt boosts single taget damage by 3-10% if the mob lives longer than 15sec.
anybody knows how haunt and very high IAS works ? like wow ... additional ticks or just lower cast time?
I kind of doubt it...That would allow it to benefit from IAS twice. But that possibility does exists, which could actually make it worth using in some circumstances.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I figured the value of haunt was in preventing damage loss when killng monsters. so you can deal 95% of a monster health with one attack of something (lets say Spirit Barrage) now, you can cast it again to kill that monster, or you can cast it again and deal 95% damage to the next monster. if you cast haunt at this point on the first hit monster it will kill it and bounce to the next target killing it. meaning you cast 3 speels to kill 2 monsters instead of 4 if you had only cast Spirit Barrage. Larger groups makes haunt very efficient as a clean up spell. But that is just how I see it and like it for some builds that possibly have this kind of issue.
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
I figured the value of haunt was in preventing damage loss when killng monsters. so you can deal 95% of a monster health with one attack of something (lets say Spirit Barrage) now, you can cast it again to kill that monster, or you can cast it again and deal 95% damage to the next monster. if you cast haunt at this point on the first hit monster it will kill it and bounce to the next target killing it. meaning you cast 3 speels to kill 2 monsters instead of 4 if you had only cast Spirit Barrage. Larger groups makes haunt very efficient as a clean up spell. But that is just how I see it and like it for some builds that possibly have this kind of issue.
I had a similar hypothesis to this before. Essentially blizzard saw that haunt has little to no overkill, thus making it very efficient dmg. This in turn is why it was nerfed.
But is overkill really that much of a problem in actual gameplay? I have doubts.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Its a great skill i dont know why are people still arguing about it.
It has 360% wep.dmg over 15 seconds, low mana cost and it will deliver dmg 100%. If it kills an enemy while its active it jumps to another mob and it resetes. Its like another free spell.
So yea ... cast 2 or 3 haunts and reinforce it with some additional dmg and this skill is one of the best in game.
Pretty sure it doesnt reset, just continues on til the 15 sec duration expires.
In an aoe situation an aoe spell will do just as much if not more dmg, and its instant. I don't have to wait up to 15 seocnds to get the full dmg output. While you cast 3 haunts, I have already taken out a couple mobs on the screen.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Resentful Spirit does around 170-185% over 3-4 seconds. So with that it becomes usefull.
Cant see any real purpose to use it otherwise, in 15 sec you would have done more dmg with firebomb
That rune makes the skill even worse than un-runed version. You halve the dmg, but it still takes the same time to cast it. Lots of abilities the warlock has will do that much dmg or more instantly!
It's great when runed, return mana would allow you to spam more high damage skills and since Haunt lasts 15 sec you wouldn't have to recast it that often, also a 15 sec slow on bosses might not be a bad thing.
It only nets 9 mana if it goes the full duration. 0.6 mana per second per haunt is hardly anything significant.
I found a blue dagger and wanga doll that each had +2 mana per second on them.
Think about that for a second. Casting SEVEN haunts to regen mana at level 60 will be doing comparable to 2 affixes on some level 5 blues.
It's one of those spells you have to cast at multiple targets to be useful. If you keep doing it at the same dude, you are wasting your time. It's a lot like DH's bola shot that way. LOS causes problems with targeting of course.
Bola shot explodes multiple times on the same mob.
Haunt will just refresh the duration if you hit the same target with it.
Also if haunt isn't worth using once, then its certainly not worth using a lot.
In an aoe situation the dmg output is small compared to an aoe ability. In a single target situation the dmg output is better than most alternatives, but not so much it actually merits a spot imo. An extra ~150% weapon dmg over 15 seconds is hardly worth a skill slot you can you use for defensive/offensive purposes.
The only thing it has going for it is that its cheap. But so what? Mana doesn't even seem to be much of a problem from what I can tell.
clueless boy is clueless
unruned 23,33% dmg per sec vs runed 60% dmg per sec. Yeah, very SUCKY indeed *facepalm*
Apparently you don't know how to properly calculate dps. The legnth of the DoT isn't the time frame you are interested in....its how long it takes to cast it, which is the same for all skills. Calculating the dmg per second using the duration of the DoT is pretty much meaningless. Any DoT with a long duration would seem worthless compared to one with a short duration.
Dmg/cast time tells you the effective dps of that skill comapred to others. Which is why blizzard usually tells you the dmg of the ability over its full duration, instead of how much it does per second.
That rune is absolutely terrible....You turn haunt into something that does the same dmg as Poison dart - splinters, but splinters is instant. So why would you ever want to use that runed version of haunt?
The only use for haunt is to slightly incresase your dmg on bosses and even thats mediocre at best, but that rune totally removes that single function.
@Disco
Lets try to avoid name calling please.
@jaclashflash
The easy answer to your question regarding resentful spirit and splinters is, because in virtually all conceivable situations doing the same amount of damage while remaining mobile will be superior to doing it stationary.
From what we can infer based on the beta, Haunt will basically be free to cast at 60 based on mana regen levels. That means that resentful spirit's negative effect on efficiency is irrelevant. This also means that when mobility is needed (pvp for instance) haunt will be a VERY useful skill.
Its a great skill i dont know why are people still arguing about it.
It has 360% wep.dmg over 15 seconds, low mana cost and it will deliver dmg 100%. If it kills an enemy while its active it jumps to another mob and it resetes. Its like another free spell.
So yea ... cast 2 or 3 haunts and reinforce it with some additional dmg and this skill is one of the best in game.
360% weapon damage to each mob over 15 seconds. Firebomb x 3 with conflagration rune, 330% to each mob over 3 seconds. It gets even worse when you compare it to a real skill. Firebats with the PBAoE rune is 600% for example.
Its a great skill i dont know why are people still arguing about it.
It has 360% wep.dmg over 15 seconds, low mana cost and it will deliver dmg 100%. If it kills an enemy while its active it jumps to another mob and it resetes. Its like another free spell.
So yea ... cast 2 or 3 haunts and reinforce it with some additional dmg and this skill is one of the best in game.
360% weapon damage to each mob over 15 seconds. Firebomb x 3 with conflagration rune, 330% to each mob over 3 seconds. It gets even worse when you compare it to a real skill. Firebats with the PBAoE rune is 600% for example.
Think you use it going into a fight, then use it later on for some easy DPS, since if they die it moves on, i think it agrees with the AoE/CC/Multitarget/Multitasking WD that I think blizzard wanted to make.
Edit: Draining Spirit Rune; Imagine a bunch of mobs, throw down a bunch of haunts, use big spenders, watch haunt fill pool [theorycraft]
360% weapon damage to each mob over 15 seconds. Firebomb x 3 with conflagration rune, 330% to each mob over 3 seconds. It gets even worse when you compare it to a real skill. Firebats with the PBAoE rune is 600% for example.
The problem with this theory though is that doing so makes you stationary. I'm not sure about you, but with how difficult Inferno will likely be, I'd much rather have the flexibility and survivability and comparability that Haunt offers.
Even with resentful spirit you may do less damage, but you'll spend less mana (thus freeing it up to be used on things such as GotD, MC, Horrify, etc.), and be mobile which makes you much more valuable to a group. At least I think alive > dead still....right?
pathing allows casting on any enemy viewable onscreen
Actually that's not the case. Haunt isn't that intelligent and if any obstacle is in the way, it will fail to strike its target.
I've spent probably between 50-100 hours playing WD thus far. I've never not had it function the way I describe. If you're having issues you might not be clicking ON the target if you're getting differing results.
Haunt Cost: 998 Mana / Haunt an enemy with a spirit, dealing 360575% weapon damage as Arcane over 15 seconds. If the target dies, the spirit will haunt another nearby enemy.
Now that its not remotely cheap....it lost that wannabe niche, and now does descent dmg.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
Epicurus
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Hopefully this time people can remain on topic, and not base their opinions solely on their disagreements with the opinions of others. Lets make it a constructive thread where someone torn on whether to give the skill a shot can perhaps find the answers they're looking for.
Anyways, my opinion of the skill being not only viable, but useful, stems from a few things:
Do you like Haunt? If yes/no, why?
It only nets 9 mana if it goes the full duration. 0.6 mana per second per haunt is hardly anything significant.
I found a blue dagger and wanga doll that each had +2 mana per second on them.
Think about that for a second. Casting SEVEN haunts to regen mana at level 60 will be doing comparable to 2 affixes on some level 5 blues.
Bola shot explodes multiple times on the same mob.
Haunt will just refresh the duration if you hit the same target with it.
Also if haunt isn't worth using once, then its certainly not worth using a lot.
In an aoe situation the dmg output is small compared to an aoe ability. In a single target situation the dmg output is better than most alternatives, but not so much it actually merits a spot imo. An extra ~150% weapon dmg over 15 seconds is hardly worth a skill slot you can you use for defensive/offensive purposes.
The only thing it has going for it is that its cheap. But so what? Mana doesn't even seem to be much of a problem from what I can tell.
Epicurus
From what I have seen, Haunt does very minimal damage to the point where I will likely never use it as a damage dealer. However, I personally think it can still be a greatly useful skill with the variety of the rune skill choices it offers, as the already OP mentioned.
For me, I will use Haunt to heal the WD over time with Consuming Spirit while I use much stronger attacks (Firebats for the win) to offset the lack of DoT. Overall, I still believe Haunt will be useful in almost any situation.
Otherwise, I'd skip it. (For PVE)
Apparently you don't know how to properly calculate dps. The legnth of the DoT isn't the time frame you are interested in....its how long it takes to cast it, which is the same for all skills. Calculating the dmg per second using the duration of the DoT is pretty much meaningless. Any DoT with a long duration would seem worthless compared to one with a short duration.
Dmg/cast time tells you the effective dps of that skill comapred to others. Which is why blizzard usually tells you the dmg of the ability over its full duration, instead of how much it does per second.
That rune is absolutely terrible....You turn haunt into something that does the same dmg as Poison dart - splinters, but splinters is instant. So why would you ever want to use that runed version of haunt?
The only use for haunt is to slightly incresase your dmg on bosses and even thats mediocre at best, but that rune totally removes that single function.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I kind of doubt it...That would allow it to benefit from IAS twice. But that possibility does exists, which could actually make it worth using in some circumstances.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I had a similar hypothesis to this before. Essentially blizzard saw that haunt has little to no overkill, thus making it very efficient dmg. This in turn is why it was nerfed.
But is overkill really that much of a problem in actual gameplay? I have doubts.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Pretty sure it doesnt reset, just continues on til the 15 sec duration expires.
In an aoe situation an aoe spell will do just as much if not more dmg, and its instant. I don't have to wait up to 15 seocnds to get the full dmg output. While you cast 3 haunts, I have already taken out a couple mobs on the screen.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
@Disco
Lets try to avoid name calling please.
@jaclashflash
The easy answer to your question regarding resentful spirit and splinters is, because in virtually all conceivable situations doing the same amount of damage while remaining mobile will be superior to doing it stationary.
From what we can infer based on the beta, Haunt will basically be free to cast at 60 based on mana regen levels. That means that resentful spirit's negative effect on efficiency is irrelevant. This also means that when mobility is needed (pvp for instance) haunt will be a VERY useful skill.
Think you use it going into a fight, then use it later on for some easy DPS, since if they die it moves on, i think it agrees with the AoE/CC/Multitarget/Multitasking WD that I think blizzard wanted to make.
Edit: Draining Spirit Rune; Imagine a bunch of mobs, throw down a bunch of haunts, use big spenders, watch haunt fill pool [theorycraft]
The problem with this theory though is that doing so makes you stationary. I'm not sure about you, but with how difficult Inferno will likely be, I'd much rather have the flexibility and survivability and comparability that Haunt offers.
Even with resentful spirit you may do less damage, but you'll spend less mana (thus freeing it up to be used on things such as GotD, MC, Horrify, etc.), and be mobile which makes you much more valuable to a group. At least I think alive > dead still....right?
I've spent probably between 50-100 hours playing WD thus far. I've never not had it function the way I describe. If you're having issues you might not be clicking ON the target if you're getting differing results.
998 Mana / Haunt an enemy with a spirit, dealing360575% weapon damage as Arcane over 15 seconds. If the target dies, the spirit will haunt another nearby enemy.Now that its not remotely cheap....it lost that wannabe niche, and now does descent dmg.
Epicurus