Might want to include the HP values from other posts too to have everything in 1 place, and hopefully someone will figure out the damage values too.
Would be nice if someone could find a way to record the damage values. As for the HP values, I agree, I should at least link to it to make it easy to find.
I made a quick excel spreadsheet that takes in your paragon level and gear MF as well as the % of the time you spend moving between packs not fighting anything on MP0 and calculates the increase in drop rate (aka good items over a given time frame) at each monster power. This does not factor the DPS loss caused by needing items with more defensive stats to survive the increased damage, but is close enough since the damage increase is not that large anyway.
To make a long story short, if you have a relatively high paragon level you need to spend well over 90% of your time moving around not fighting anything before it becomes worth it to bump up the monster power to something around 1~3. At lower paragon levels you still need to spend a very significant portion of the time moving around.
This shows the failure of the monster power system, at least in terms of MF. The whole reason we needed increased difficulty is because we spent too much time moving around and too little time actually fighting stuff and thus were getting bored as well as pigeonholed into builds that optimize movement between packs. Since the bonus to loot is too small, we're basically doomed to spend a significant % of the time moving between packs and still get bored and use movement-happy builds, since by definition the system encourages us to only play where we spend the grand majority of our time moving. If the bonuses were greater, even if not directly proportional to the HP increase, we might have bumped up the monster power to be more efficient due to fighting more and moving less, but currently the MF benefits are simply not enough.
There is still hope for high monster power to have a significant enough effect on infernal machine related drops, but these values and how they scale with monster power are not yet known, or at least I couldn't find any other the "100% drop at mp10" (which tells us nothing without the drop rates at lower mp levels).
Great thread glad that mine ties into this so nicely, Thank you KageKaze. (Agh I need to get to 10 posts dam URL Forum Rules)
Oh and BTW who was asking about the scaling of HP on Hell bosses regarding MP? Didn't think anyone would be interested in that data TBH.
You should compare to 1.0.4 act 3 monsters, not act 1, as act 1 mp1 is supposed to be an increased difficulty over act 3 mp0, not act 1 mp0, so obviously if you're checking act 1 mp1 is going to be much much harder than mp0 (but mp levels above 1 will again scale as they you would expect).
You should compare to 1.0.4 act 3 monsters, not act 1, as act 1 mp1 is supposed to be an increased difficulty over act 3 mp0, not act 1 mp0, so obviously if you're checking act 1 mp1 is going to be much much harder than mp0 (but mp levels above 1 will again scale as they you would expect).
I will confess I'm a little confused. Hopefully my response will be what you might be inquiring about.
Overall it's been stated that in inferno MP2-3 will be roughly the same as where 1.0.4 is for acts 3-4. Acts 1 and 2 will be much easier than current act 1 and 2 on live but if you increase MP to 1 in acts 1 and 2 then they will be much harder. This is because the monsters will be scaled up to level 63 then increased by MP even further. Acts 1 and 2 will be just as hard as Acts 3 and 4 when monster power is turned on. This is actually only partially true due to monsters having somewhat more basic patterns and AI in earlier acts, but it should be mostly true for their stats.
For the earlier difficulties, it appears that MP does not increase levels, but simply boosts the monster Hit Point and Damage values. From what I've seen, the damage value per point of Monster Power is not very high, probably to prevent it from being a one-shot death fest that old inferno was, but enough to make it challenging. The primary difficulty seems to come from the monsters taking a lot logner to kill. A leap from MP1 to MP10 will be noticable, however.
MP boosts the levels of all inferno monsters that are under level 63 up to level 63, but yes it doesn't boost it any further than that, and that boost is independent of the MP HP and damage boost.
Therefore, the jump from MP0 to MP1 in act 1 and act 2 will be much bigger than the jump in act 3 from MP0 to MP1 since MP1 act 1/2 should sort of be on par with MP1 act 3. After MP1, though, all acts should have the same jump in difficulty per MP level since the multipliers are the same for all acts for MP levels above 1.
Quick question I apologize if it has been asked before but didn't blizz state at some point that at moment Inferno is about MP lv3-4? If so would it mean that you could start act 3 and drop it to MPlv1 and have easier time farming or what? I am confused because if they make All monsters at MPlv1 ilv63 but they will still be weaker compared to live would that not make more people farm act 1?
Quick question I apologize if it has been asked before but didn't blizz state at some point that at moment Inferno is about MP lv3-4? If so would it mean that you could start act 3 and drop it to MPlv1 and have easier time farming or what? I am confused because if they make All monsters at MPlv1 ilv63 but they will still be weaker compared to live would that not make more people farm act 1?
I think current Act 3 difficulty is actually more similar to MP 2-3, not MP 3-4, but you're basically correct.
Act 3 with MP 1 will be (a) easier, and (b) more rewarding that Act 3 in 1.0.4. This is known. This is a conscious decision of Blizzard's part.
Act 1 with any given MP should be roughly the same difficulty as Act 3 with the same MP, and will offer the same level of reward. Some have speculated that it will actually be easier due to Act 1 having fewer monsters with inherently annoying powers. On the other hand, some have speculated that Act 3 will be more rewarding due to having more elites close together. Ultimately I think the difficulty and reward should be similar enough to achieve Blizzard's goal, which is to let people choose where they want to play and get themselves some variety.
Quick question I apologize if it has been asked before but didn't blizz state at some point that at moment Inferno is about MP lv3-4? If so would it mean that you could start act 3 and drop it to MPlv1 and have easier time farming or what? I am confused because if they make All monsters at MPlv1 ilv63 but they will still be weaker compared to live would that not make more people farm act 1?
I think current Act 3 difficulty is actually more similar to MP 2-3, not MP 3-4, but you're basically correct.
Act 3 with MP 1 will be (a) easier, and ( more rewarding that Act 3 in 1.0.4. This is known. This is a conscious decision of Blizzard's part.
Act 1 with any given MP should be roughly the same difficulty as Act 3 with the same MP, and will offer the same level of reward. Some have speculated that it will actually be easier due to Act 1 having fewer monsters with inherently annoying powers. On the other hand, some have speculated that Act 3 will be more rewarding due to having more elites close together. Ultimately I think the difficulty and reward should be similar enough to achieve Blizzard's goal, which is to let people choose where they want to play and get themselves some variety.
Thanks for the answer it is nice to be able to farm act 3 for a change my DH does a good amount of damage but because i choose to stay in MF gear Act 3 becomes a pain on certain mobs.
My question is, will the health of mobs in act 3 stay the exact same in act3 mp1? We would just see a boost in xp and mf?
The HP of mobs in MP1 act 3 will be slightly higher than the HP of mobs in Act 3 1.0.4 live. The damage will be lower, however.
I thought the HP of live was between MP2 and 3 for act3, based on the boss hp information in the other thread http://www.diablofans.com/topic/72154-patch-105-inferno-mp-0-10-hit-points-chart-wip/
Just looking at the Act 3 bosses, MP1 is about 23-28% less HP than 1.0.4 (7.4-7.7 mil vs 6 mil). MP2 by comparison is about 20% more hp than live.
Or do the boss HPs scale differently than regular mobs with MP? I noticed the idea was brought up in the other thread but no conclusions were drawn.
I thought the HP of live was between MP2 and 3 for act3, based on the boss hp information in the other thread http://www.diablofan...ints-chart-wip/
Just looking at the Act 3 bosses, MP1 is about 23-28% less HP than 1.0.4 (7.4-7.7 mil vs 6 mil). MP2 by comparison is about 20% more hp than live.
Or do the boss HPs scale differently than regular mobs with MP? I noticed the idea was brought up in the other thread but no conclusions were drawn.
Sorry, I took a quick glance at my numbers when I wrote that and I mistakenly looked at Act1/2 values not 3/4. You are correct, MP1 is slightly lower, not higher. MP2 will be the point at which the HP values start to go higher for acts 3 and 4.
I thought the HP of live was between MP2 and 3 for act3, based on the boss hp information in the other thread http://www.diablofan...ints-chart-wip/
Just looking at the Act 3 bosses, MP1 is about 23-28% less HP than 1.0.4 (7.4-7.7 mil vs 6 mil). MP2 by comparison is about 20% more hp than live.
Or do the boss HPs scale differently than regular mobs with MP? I noticed the idea was brought up in the other thread but no conclusions were drawn.
Sorry, I took a quick glance at my numbers when I wrote that and I mistakenly looked at Act1/2 values not 3/4. You are correct, MP1 is slightly lower, not higher. MP2 will be the point at which the HP values start to go higher for acts 3 and 4.
Good to see that clarified. I'm hoping to be able to do MP 3-4 effectively, and MP 7-8 at most without being stomped by content
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Act 3 will still be the best place to farm. The monster density is much higher.
//edit: Assuming you have the gear to handle it of course.
Might want to include the HP values from other posts too to have everything in 1 place, and hopefully someone will figure out the damage values too.
That information was released after all this was put together. Though I could add it as a note.
Would be nice if someone could find a way to record the damage values. As for the HP values, I agree, I should at least link to it to make it easy to find.
http://www.mediafire...96k3c6uh8l06v3z
To make a long story short, if you have a relatively high paragon level you need to spend well over 90% of your time moving around not fighting anything before it becomes worth it to bump up the monster power to something around 1~3. At lower paragon levels you still need to spend a very significant portion of the time moving around.
This shows the failure of the monster power system, at least in terms of MF. The whole reason we needed increased difficulty is because we spent too much time moving around and too little time actually fighting stuff and thus were getting bored as well as pigeonholed into builds that optimize movement between packs. Since the bonus to loot is too small, we're basically doomed to spend a significant % of the time moving between packs and still get bored and use movement-happy builds, since by definition the system encourages us to only play where we spend the grand majority of our time moving. If the bonuses were greater, even if not directly proportional to the HP increase, we might have bumped up the monster power to be more efficient due to fighting more and moving less, but currently the MF benefits are simply not enough.
There is still hope for high monster power to have a significant enough effect on infernal machine related drops, but these values and how they scale with monster power are not yet known, or at least I couldn't find any other the "100% drop at mp10" (which tells us nothing without the drop rates at lower mp levels).
Oh and BTW who was asking about the scaling of HP on Hell bosses regarding MP? Didn't think anyone would be interested in that data TBH.
I will confess I'm a little confused. Hopefully my response will be what you might be inquiring about.
Overall it's been stated that in inferno MP2-3 will be roughly the same as where 1.0.4 is for acts 3-4. Acts 1 and 2 will be much easier than current act 1 and 2 on live but if you increase MP to 1 in acts 1 and 2 then they will be much harder. This is because the monsters will be scaled up to level 63 then increased by MP even further. Acts 1 and 2 will be just as hard as Acts 3 and 4 when monster power is turned on. This is actually only partially true due to monsters having somewhat more basic patterns and AI in earlier acts, but it should be mostly true for their stats.
For the earlier difficulties, it appears that MP does not increase levels, but simply boosts the monster Hit Point and Damage values. From what I've seen, the damage value per point of Monster Power is not very high, probably to prevent it from being a one-shot death fest that old inferno was, but enough to make it challenging. The primary difficulty seems to come from the monsters taking a lot logner to kill. A leap from MP1 to MP10 will be noticable, however.
Therefore, the jump from MP0 to MP1 in act 1 and act 2 will be much bigger than the jump in act 3 from MP0 to MP1 since MP1 act 1/2 should sort of be on par with MP1 act 3. After MP1, though, all acts should have the same jump in difficulty per MP level since the multipliers are the same for all acts for MP levels above 1.
I think current Act 3 difficulty is actually more similar to MP 2-3, not MP 3-4, but you're basically correct.
Act 3 with MP 1 will be (a) easier, and (b) more rewarding that Act 3 in 1.0.4. This is known. This is a conscious decision of Blizzard's part.
Act 1 with any given MP should be roughly the same difficulty as Act 3 with the same MP, and will offer the same level of reward. Some have speculated that it will actually be easier due to Act 1 having fewer monsters with inherently annoying powers. On the other hand, some have speculated that Act 3 will be more rewarding due to having more elites close together. Ultimately I think the difficulty and reward should be similar enough to achieve Blizzard's goal, which is to let people choose where they want to play and get themselves some variety.
The HP of mobs in MP1 act 3 will be slightly higher than the HP of mobs in Act 3 1.0.4 live. The damage will be lower, however.
I thought the HP of live was between MP2 and 3 for act3, based on the boss hp information in the other thread http://www.diablofans.com/topic/72154-patch-105-inferno-mp-0-10-hit-points-chart-wip/
Just looking at the Act 3 bosses, MP1 is about 23-28% less HP than 1.0.4 (7.4-7.7 mil vs 6 mil). MP2 by comparison is about 20% more hp than live.
Or do the boss HPs scale differently than regular mobs with MP? I noticed the idea was brought up in the other thread but no conclusions were drawn.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Sorry, I took a quick glance at my numbers when I wrote that and I mistakenly looked at Act1/2 values not 3/4. You are correct, MP1 is slightly lower, not higher. MP2 will be the point at which the HP values start to go higher for acts 3 and 4.