You can only cast one at a time and the runed versions are just variations of the elemental type of damage with minor changes to the weapon damage percentage.
They shoot maybe 3 projectiles per second for (let's say 28% weapon damage each) and it lasts for 15 seconds. So math tells you that it will shoot approximately 45 projectiles per cast and the total damage will be 45 * 28 = 1260. But here's the thing, that damage output is scattered when facing a pack and not only that, not every projectile actually hits the targets because they're always moving.
It's cheap to cast, but why have it take up a skill slot when it seems like it's pretty useless for the most part? Potentially it could work against bosses one on one, just cast and let it do it's work but I'm guessing that boss fights won't be one on one especially in later difficulties, they'll have some minions spawn.
I think they should either up the damage or allow multiple hydras but max it to about 3. Or at least have a passive that allows you to cast multiple hydras. One of my favorite skills from D2 and really disappointed that it seems like it's useless, even in the skill video on the website, all you see is the wizard casting it and running like crazy trying to avoid getting hit.
Anyways, this is just speculation as obviously I don't know how well it'll work in game, but doesn't seem like it will be worth taking up a skill slot.
You shouldn't comment if you don't read the post. OP makes some pretty good points, Hydra does sound fairly useless as it is. I think we'll have to try it to be sure, but as it sounds, I can't see myself using it.
A DoT that does 1260% damage over 15 seconds is already quite strong... that's a huge amount of damage for a single cast.
Add on the fact that you can cast Hydra tactically - for example, casting it around a wall so it can hit a boss but the boss cannot hit you - and it is really not bad.
The concept of Hydra is the same in D1, D2, and D3. It doesn't do a whole lot of damage per second, but it does the damage safely, and continues to deal damage even if you are running around, stunned, or otherwise unable to cast.
You could also cast it in a narrow corridor to pelt incoming monsters. I agree that the skill video on the D3 website makes it look like crap though, as it manages to miss pretty much every target.
They shoot maybe 3 projectiles per second for (let's say 28% weapon damage each) and it lasts for 15 seconds. So math tells you that it will shoot approximately 45 projectiles per cast and the total damage will be 45 * 28 = 1260. But here's the thing, that damage output is scattered when facing a pack and not only that, not every projectile actually hits the targets because they're always moving.
Ohhh man, I was assuming like 1 or 1½ based on weapon speed. If it's 3 I could definitely see myself using it on a Wizard ^^
Very true... especially if you pick one of the AOE runes.
You're missing the point, every rune (with the exception of maybe the electric one, not sure how many it hits) has an AOE mechanic attached to it. The damage will be a lot higher than your math based just on the fact that it's not a single target spell (besides the unruned version).
As Bleu42 points out, 3/6 variants are definitely AoE; the psn variant is also kind-of AoE. I have been assuming 1 cast/sec, and still think it is unequestionably worth taking in most builds, as I think that it's damage over 15 will be equivalent to or higher than most available damage buffs. Further, it will have tactical uses; I definitely plan to run it and think it is more-than worthwhile.
While I would enjoy a sig spell/Hydra-only build if there were no cast cap, I can see why they did it this way. With AoE variants, it would either have to do so little damage as to be useless, or would quickly become the far-and-away best Wizard spell if it didn't have a low casting cap. As it is, with a cheap cost and long duration, it effectively becomes a more-interesting damage buff along the lines of Familiar - Sparkflint which will take up little of your cast time, but provide very high damage/arcane power.
A fire and forget with low enough arcane cost and high enough duration. Use it to enhance your total damage and not as your primary attacking spell.
It's one of those spells, like Familiar and Magic Weapon, that is a damage increase. You need to cast it every 15secs, unlike these two, but hydra's contribution to damage is way higher. I'm not sure about the numbers posted above. 1260% damage over 15secs is way too powerful for an instant. We can't confirm or deny it so far because we don't know exactly how often Hydra attacks and how our attack speed affects it. Even if the damage is really 28% every second (the lowest possibility) it's already worth it.
How to use Hydra? You pop it and for 15 seconds you do your normal damage. You're using a slot to improve your damage and it's definitely a increase. It's simple and very effective as a single target spell.
In multiple target situations you have runes like the one that makes the Hydra shoot 28% arcane orbs. Its effectiveness in this case depends on how gathered enemies are, just like our regular arcane orb. Actually most aoe abilities, not only from wizard, suffer from scattered enemies.
In an aoe situation it works similar. You pop an Arcane Hydra, and go throw your arcane orbs or w/r you use for aoe. Instead of your regular aoe you're now dealing extra 28% aoe.
Hydra is far from useless, just sort of situational.
The lightning hydra has 3 heads, that each fire 34% wpn dmg for 15 seconds.
Assuming that the heads use your attack speed, and I don't see why they wouldn't given the wording of the skill.
Even if you ignore weapon speed, or use a slow staff, then you still have
3 heads *34 %wd * 15 sec = 2448% wpn dmg = 1530% wpn dmg
That makes this skill by far the most efficient dmg skill in regards too resources and globals.
Even in an AoE situation, assuming the mobs stayed alive near full duration, you would have to hit a considerable number of mobs for other spells to compete dmg wise. So don't think this is only for single target. For example, you would need arcane orb to damn near hit 10 mobs to put up similar #s.
Another thing to consider is that the massive number of attacks could potentially trigger procs, like critical mass and +AP on critical hit. Assuming this occurred, the Hydra would be like a little generator you throw out.
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Another thing to consider is that the massive number of attacks could potentially trigger procs, like critical mass and +AP on critical hit. Assuming this occurred, the Hydra would be like a little generator you throw out.
Good point. We don't know if Hydra/Familar crits can return you ap. If they do yea it would have a big impact on ap regen.
People see the low damage in the tooltip and freak out before realizing that you and hydra attack at the same time. Thats the whole point. All it's damage simply stack in the damage of your other skills.
Imo Hydra is the single target version of Blizzard. And i think people definetly understimate the importance of single target DPS.
What I think you will see with hydra is similar to D2. BTW i used hydra in d2 as a way to CC. It was good for pulling mobs to a certain point and then using a mass nuke on the entire group. As I understand it if you have faster Att speed, so does the hydra. Be on that as such it does feel like the showtime rotisserie "just set it and forget it". I am actually looking forward to this skill. BTW think using passive skills inconjunction with hydra such as conflag/paralysis to have more chance of plusdmg/second effects (ie stuns).
This is exactly why you can't judge a skill without using it. Whether you like it or not, Blizzard has balanced the game as they see fit. Apparently being able to have more than one Hydra was too powerful.
The numbers may seem low, but clearly there's a reason behind that.
Condemning a spell based solely on its tooltip and without any form of experimentation whatsoever is stupid.
People see the low damage in the tooltip and freak out before realizing that you and hydra attack at the same time. Thats the whole point. All it's damage simply stack in the damage of your other skills.
This is what I thought as well. Hydra will be doing damage on top of your damage. While it's shooting away, you'll be firing of magic missiles and meteors, so it's pretty much an extra damage source, not really your main source of damage.
I'll definitely will use this skill in my build.. Fire and forget, but great in tight passages and corridors - especially with poison rune and somebody tanking in front.
I loved Hydra in D2 the cooldown was a bit long but w.e. In this game It stinks you can only have 1 but with a 15 second duration that should compensate fairly well. People have made the point that it is a legitmately good skill because it does damage beside you not taking away from damage you can do (well only briefly every 15 seconds). Hydra is one of several skills you can summon/drop while your casting other skills to increase your total DPS. For example If you have a Familiar doing 20% of your Wep Damage for every attack you are doing (without a rune), Magic Weapon imbuing your weapong for an extra 10% magic damage (without a rune), and you can have a Hydra doing over 28% wep damage per second (without a rune). If you have a powerful CD spell like meteor along with a spammable spell like electrocute thats is a lot of DPS you will be able to do at once.
Edit - Funny thing is wizard is going to be my 4th character if I even get that far. Just loved Hydra in D2 and think its going to be a very beneficial skill to have in groups where someone can tank for you while you and your Hydra unload.
I want to merge this thread with every thread that complains about the imaginary lack of build diversity.
There are some many different ways to play.
A build is defined by the synergies it takes advantage of, and the options for finding synergies are pretty broad. The fact that Hydra is so flexible in types of damage it can do, makes it likely to find a home in a lot of different build types. It's probably never going to be the back-bone of any given build, but a reliable & mana efficient option to trigger passives (paralysis, conflagration, critical mass, temporal flux) or take advantage of them (cold blooded, arcane dynamo).
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They shoot maybe 3 projectiles per second for (let's say 28% weapon damage each) and it lasts for 15 seconds. So math tells you that it will shoot approximately 45 projectiles per cast and the total damage will be 45 * 28 = 1260. But here's the thing, that damage output is scattered when facing a pack and not only that, not every projectile actually hits the targets because they're always moving.
It's cheap to cast, but why have it take up a skill slot when it seems like it's pretty useless for the most part? Potentially it could work against bosses one on one, just cast and let it do it's work but I'm guessing that boss fights won't be one on one especially in later difficulties, they'll have some minions spawn.
I think they should either up the damage or allow multiple hydras but max it to about 3. Or at least have a passive that allows you to cast multiple hydras. One of my favorite skills from D2 and really disappointed that it seems like it's useless, even in the skill video on the website, all you see is the wizard casting it and running like crazy trying to avoid getting hit.
Anyways, this is just speculation as obviously I don't know how well it'll work in game, but doesn't seem like it will be worth taking up a skill slot.
Add on the fact that you can cast Hydra tactically - for example, casting it around a wall so it can hit a boss but the boss cannot hit you - and it is really not bad.
The concept of Hydra is the same in D1, D2, and D3. It doesn't do a whole lot of damage per second, but it does the damage safely, and continues to deal damage even if you are running around, stunned, or otherwise unable to cast.
Very true... especially if you pick one of the AOE runes.
While I would enjoy a sig spell/Hydra-only build if there were no cast cap, I can see why they did it this way. With AoE variants, it would either have to do so little damage as to be useless, or would quickly become the far-and-away best Wizard spell if it didn't have a low casting cap. As it is, with a cheap cost and long duration, it effectively becomes a more-interesting damage buff along the lines of Familiar - Sparkflint which will take up little of your cast time, but provide very high damage/arcane power.
How to use Hydra? You pop it and for 15 seconds you do your normal damage. You're using a slot to improve your damage and it's definitely a increase. It's simple and very effective as a single target spell.
In multiple target situations you have runes like the one that makes the Hydra shoot 28% arcane orbs. Its effectiveness in this case depends on how gathered enemies are, just like our regular arcane orb. Actually most aoe abilities, not only from wizard, suffer from scattered enemies.
In an aoe situation it works similar. You pop an Arcane Hydra, and go throw your arcane orbs or w/r you use for aoe. Instead of your regular aoe you're now dealing extra 28% aoe.
The lightning hydra has 3 heads, that each fire 34% wpn dmg for 15 seconds.
Assuming that the heads use your attack speed, and I don't see why they wouldn't given the wording of the skill.
@1.6 APS
Lightning Hydra
1.6 APS * 3 heads *34 %wd * 15 sec = 2448% wpn dmg
Even if you ignore weapon speed, or use a slow staff, then you still have
3 heads *34 %wd * 15 sec = 2448% wpn dmg = 1530% wpn dmg
That makes this skill by far the most efficient dmg skill in regards too resources and globals.
Even in an AoE situation, assuming the mobs stayed alive near full duration, you would have to hit a considerable number of mobs for other spells to compete dmg wise. So don't think this is only for single target. For example, you would need arcane orb to damn near hit 10 mobs to put up similar #s.
Another thing to consider is that the massive number of attacks could potentially trigger procs, like critical mass and +AP on critical hit. Assuming this occurred, the Hydra would be like a little generator you throw out.
Epicurus
Imo Hydra is the single target version of Blizzard. And i think people definetly understimate the importance of single target DPS.
The numbers may seem low, but clearly there's a reason behind that.
Condemning a spell based solely on its tooltip and without any form of experimentation whatsoever is stupid.
Edit - Funny thing is wizard is going to be my 4th character if I even get that far. Just loved Hydra in D2 and think its going to be a very beneficial skill to have in groups where someone can tank for you while you and your Hydra unload.
There are some many different ways to play.
A build is defined by the synergies it takes advantage of, and the options for finding synergies are pretty broad. The fact that Hydra is so flexible in types of damage it can do, makes it likely to find a home in a lot of different build types. It's probably never going to be the back-bone of any given build, but a reliable & mana efficient option to trigger passives (paralysis, conflagration, critical mass, temporal flux) or take advantage of them (cold blooded, arcane dynamo).