To make PVP better then need to have ALL the PVP features. PK is one of them. One of the things that kept Diablo interesting to me for so long is the random PK action, both being the hunter and hunted. You know what to expect against ai enemies, they're going to do the same generic crap over and over. When some person hostiles you in a run you have no clue what they're going to try to pull on you or what their strategy will be. Thats so much more fun them spamming fireballs at zombies for hours on end.
If you get griefed in this game its your own fault. You can just make a passworded game with friends and avoid random PK altogether. If your in a pub and get hostiled, you always have plenty of time to leave the game before they get to you. If they do get you, unless your playing hardcore, you lose pretty much nothing. If your on hardcore and get pk'd and can't stand it, its your own fault, play softcore.
Once you leave a game they really have no way to find you. Only way is if you join another pub and the person is sitting there scanning every game looking for you. Do you really think people are going to potentially scan games for hours just to screw with you. No, of course not, your not that important when theres tons of other randoms to screw with. Yeah sure they might randomly stumble on your next game and bug ya for giggles, but if your not a whiney fun target to grief you won't stick out. Either that or if you just pwn them they wont bother joining a game with you in it.
If they do make pk optional I hope its a permanent choice so wussies can't level in safe pvm games then hop over to pk.
You dont understand, anyone can stand and spam, monsters have immunes, super uniques, other bosses, iys alot more than you think, and if its that simple, why play the game if you do nothng but press a skill button over and over? Thought so, theres alot to it, especially when you get to the point that a levle takes a week to make, theres very much to it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we go AGIAN. to you now nick, if the only solution is to make a private game, there is no point. The game was made so people can go out and play with groups of others online, not to lock yourslef in a single room. AGAIN If the game gets to the point where you lose the multiplayer aspect other than playing with 2 firneds that can make it at a time, you lose, and you lose faithful customers. Thas fine to have a seprate room with that mechanic, but it isnt fair to do thaqt to everyone when some people buy the game to play freely without assholes. Baning somone to a single room is bullshit, and if thats what it comes to in D3, I hope everyone quits playing, adn all youll have left is every violent person that wants nothing mroe than to fuck with people, and im glad thats what your sepnding your money to do.
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Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
If you get griefed in this game its your own fault. You can just make a passworded game with friends and avoid random PK altogether.
By that logic, we should keep every exploit out there because they don't matter if you can hole yourself up in a passworded game, including bots, hacks, and anything else you can think of. PKing it not your fault, it is the fault the the PKer, the one who choices to catch you completely unknowingly and kills you like a coward.
You dont understand, anyone can stand and spam, monsters have immunes, super uniques, other bosses, iys alot more than you think, and if its that simple, why play the game if you do nothng but press a skill button over and over? Thought so, theres alot to it, especially when you get to the point that a levle takes a week to make, theres very much to it.
Well ive played the game a long time im pretty sure I understand how it works and how to get to level 99 and yes basically all you do is spam one maybe 2 skills over and over till your 99....and the only time immunities are ever a issue is if your not baaling with a group of people....and dont tell me ppl solo to 99 cuz no one in there right mind would ever do that.
By that logic, we should keep every exploit out there because they don't matter if you can hole yourself up in a passworded game, including bots, hacks, and anything else you can think of. PKing it not your fault, it is the fault the the PKer, the one who choices to catch you completely unknowingly and kills you like a coward.
No Seth, you are wrong, and heres why. PK is not an exploit. Bots, hacks, and abusing glitches are exploits, and they should be fixed/removed from the game. If PK was on the same level as a hack, then blizzard was pretty stupid for giving everyone a hostile trigger, and warden should ban us all for using it.
What he's saying is no one likes bots/exploits/maphack etc, so you can avoid them by playing only password protected games (because they're not ever going to get 100% fixed, at least not in D2)
Some people don't like PKs so you can avoid them by playing password protected games.
Either way you'd be forced if you wanted to avoid either of those situations completely to play alone basically, which is not good for a game.
Seth has it again. Thank you thank you. And again, its more than spamming two skills with a group of people otherwise WHO WOULD WANT TO PLAY A BORING GAME WHERE YOU DO THE SAME THING FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS FOR 90-99!! I can tell your boring, because ur post was the same thing as yourt previous one, didnt even arguue mine, just reposteed "all it is spamming skills". Thats spamming in a forum, so quit, everyone knows there alot more to it.
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Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
Seth has it again. Thank you thank you. And again, its more than spamming two skills with a group of people otherwise WHO WOULD WANT TO PLAY A BORING GAME WHERE YOU DO THE SAME THING FOR WEEKS AND WEEKS FOR 90-99!! I can tell your boring, because ur post was the same thing as yourt previous one, didnt even arguue mine, just reposteed "all it is spamming skills". Thats spamming in a forum, so quit, everyone knows there alot more to it.
I believe the person who you are arguing with is only trying to state that you can be naked and just sit there and leech and hit 99. So skill really isnt involved in leveling up in Diablo. I sat in a Guber game and hit 91 from 1 in a few hours, I was completely naked and afk...no skill needed. To achieve 99 I can do this over and over for a week or so and bam 99...naked...no skill even shot off. I can also do this in baal runs altho it takes more effort, gear and skills are not a neccessity to level up. Solo yes, on Bnet...no.
D3 should really give the players control, allow loot in their games, allow PvP in towns, allow Dueling trades, ect, let us customize our own dueling like we have since D1 has been out, its always been the community that made Dueling what it is. All they need to do is give us the power to customize our games.
Diablo players are divided into 3 main groups: 1. Serious PvP gamers 2. Casual/Occasional PvP gamers 3. People who just want to PvM solo or in groups (with strangers or friends), either because they are tired of dueling, don't like it, are scared to lose, or just don't think about it.
We can all agree, these groups ALREADY exist, AND, that there will ALWAYS be a fair amount of people in each group. None of these groups will ever disappear as long as Diablo is being played online. But what most people forget is that there is something else to this...
What Blizzard needs to be doing, is thinking about is how to do 2 things:
1. How to improve and streamline the experience of the player, in whichever group they fall into. (which is what I think a majority of the posts in this thread are trying to suggest).
2. Create a system or environment in the game that makes a player feel more COMFORTABLE about going from one group to another.
What we ALL need to remember is that every player's personal preference is legitimate. HOWEVER, when any of us assume that our personal play-style and gaming-goals are the ONLY acceptable option for the rest of the players, nothing good will come of it.
That's why RIGHT NOW we all need to get comfortable with this idea: the players who want different things than we do should get what they want, and we should get what we want as well. I do believe that there is a way to please MOST of the people, it's just a matter of coming up with creative solutions and options.
Yes, players who love to PvP should get what they want. They should have a way to play Diablo 3 that satisfies their love of challenging PvP combat. But FORCING anyone to deal with aspects of the game that they don't like, simply because we do, is wrong. I encourage PvP. I think it's great. BUT, if a PvP player wants more people to man-up and stop being "trash-talking cowards", then that PvP player should be given a system that makes it easier or more appealing for those "trash-talking cowards" to engage in PvP. We can't bully players into playing the way we want. Because they won't, and then no one gets what they want.
How about this as an idea: Let's say I'm a PK and there is someone in a public game who is REALLY pissing me off. They're talking shit and I KNOW I could dominate them. Sure, I could mute them and ignore them, but I'm a PK and I want to teach this person some humility. In D2, all I can do is hostile them and call them out and hope that they take the bait. Not much incentive for that person to fight me is it? And we all know it's very easy for low level players to refuse a duel with a high level player, regardless of how much either of them might deserve a beating. - So how about in D3, if you REALLY want to duel with someone who won't do it (for whatever reason), you can offer them some kind of achievement points for being willing to battle, even if they're scared or just don't want to. It would say to the 'coward' "Hey, if you win, you get these points (which everyone can see on your character stats or profile or whatever) and it proves that you can handle your business. BUT, if you lose, you still get SOME points for being willing to try." I know these "Cred" points may or may not be redeemable for anything physical, but in a community like battle.net, I think they could start to have significance for the players. It's just 1 idea that would give incentive for people to WANT to duel. I'm sure there are more out there.
Thats why I mentioned a pk realm and non pk realm. There can be no crossing over of characters or communication between the realms. No leveling in wimpland and crossing over.
Theres already level restrictions, lack of any way to follow people from game to game except for pretty much random luck, abilitly to make private games(which you don't have to be in alone fyi), option to run with friends and just beat back a PK'er, and a time interval between when someone declares hostile and when they actually get to you aren't enough, you just won't be happy without 0 PK at all.
On the flipside theres a ton of people who probably won't even bother with the game if PVP amounts to arena only. The most random thing in the game is player interaction, and its mainly a hack and slash/trading game. Blizzards already doing a good job screwing up the trading by making binding gear, and the most random thing in the hack and slash end of the game is pvp encounters, lets hope they don't screw those up as well.
OOOOOhhh god, so many replies here, and many differents opinions. I read almost all your replies and I can separate in two sides.
Who's want kill for no reason when they want. I think it's a personnal problem that someone want bother, annoyed or harm personnally. (It's still a game but I hope you're not the same in real life). Yes it's fun to know you're stronger but you have no value and no proud to backstab someone or to kill him when you have a big difference of level or when the other person don't want challenge you. It's just not fair and if you're not agree you're a bad player without ethic and moral. (you want make evil things BUT you don't want someone else do the same with you)
I don't remember who, he said friendly fire should be allowed same as d1. AHAHA and what you do with spells with radius damage ?
Others think uncontroled PK is a problem, right. Agreement from all it's a must, and who don't agreed cannot take a damage from others.
And many people are agree to have customizable rules. I think it's a good thing to have.
Tournament, fighting arena, team : 2vs2 1vs6 4vs4, free-for-all, big land of combat 20vs20... Many ideas is good.
I'm disagree with idea that we choose before hosting if it's a game for duel or for story. I think if we have agreement's system we'll haven't problem with that. If after awhile of playing you want duel you'll need to create a new game ?
For hardcore, an agreement if you lose your character or not after die ! if you die from monsters you don't have choice, you're dead...
I feel kinda good about having pwned so many baal and chaos runs over the years now. I had no idea this many people got butthurt over something that there are a ton of ways to avoid, that costs them 15 seconds to full recoup from.
escape
click save and exit
join new game
click on corpse laying in town
The pk, after those 4 easy steps, has been made totally irrelavent. The worst part, is knowing you got outplayed...does losing in a game really hurt that bad?
Generally it is the people that does the PKing that likes the system. The people that don't PK hates to be the victim. So let the PKers play together and we will all be happy.
What is the point of beeing killed all the time for no reason when you don't do it yourself? What if some random dude popped into your single player game every once in a while and just killed you? Is that fun?
Actually I encourage that. I love when people join my game and try to kill me. I love also taking my LLD into games and killing high levels. Not every PK is a super high level, or is a coward. I am a dead on PK and I get a kick everytime someone tries to kill me or duels me, it's the only thing the game has going for it now, and honestly it's the only reason I have played it for so long (Been playing since day 1 d1..) I didn't sit there and go "Wow! I need to go MF or I need to go LEVEL!!!!!" No I sat there and dueled or killed people, or played the opposite roll of getting hunted and I didn't cry in town I went out and fought the battle.
So, should every single player on Battle.net be subject to your sadistic cruelty? What about the tons of players that only want to level or play through the game? What about the ones that only want to do MF runs? Why should everyone be subject to it?
Personally, I usually played through the game in a passworded game. I never got pked that way. My bot did mf runs in passworded games. Not that I could know for sure, but I'm pretty confident I never got pked there, either. I've also never pked anyone in a passworded game, and not for a lack of trying, trust me.
Even in D2, I think its a terrible exaggeration to suggest that everyone is subject to pks. It might be more accurate to say that everyone level 9 and up who insists on playing in an open game without level restrictions but refuses to leave the game when a higher level character joins and declares hostility is subject to pks. I'm not saying pks are right, but the fact is D2 already has plenty of ways to prevent them from happening.
That said, I think its pretty safe to say D3 will do even more to prevent pks.
Seth I already mentioned a bunch of ways to avoid getting PK'd. Its not hard at all to avoid, and your not subjected to anyones cruelty if you'd just learn the game.
Vladdracul has the right idea. There's so many ways to mess with people, either as the attacker, or the victim. I've been on both sides of the coin, and its fun both ways. Hell I've even herded a ton of mobs and opened tp's just to mess with people.
Sure it seems like being a jerk, but its damn fun, and whether you like it or not it adds a huge element of randomness to the game. I've never played a game that was strictly co-op pvm for anywhere near the length of time I've played D2. The thing is, its just a freaking game. If you get owned, sit back, laugh, becuase it was probably hilarious, get better, and maybe you wont get owned the next time.
thats not even possible, its already been stated that the ammount of exp needed for eaach level after 90 took at minimum a day each.
And as to the general idea, todaays new post finaled it, no PvP in Diablo 3 becasue it takes away from the general idea, good old online play with strangers lol.
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Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending.
You don't lose exp from getting PK'd. Well that is unless your hardcore, but if your hardcore and hate losing a character for getting PK'd....play softcore?
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All you do is spam your best skill at mobs till they die....that doesn't take much skill lol
If you get griefed in this game its your own fault. You can just make a passworded game with friends and avoid random PK altogether. If your in a pub and get hostiled, you always have plenty of time to leave the game before they get to you. If they do get you, unless your playing hardcore, you lose pretty much nothing. If your on hardcore and get pk'd and can't stand it, its your own fault, play softcore.
Once you leave a game they really have no way to find you. Only way is if you join another pub and the person is sitting there scanning every game looking for you. Do you really think people are going to potentially scan games for hours just to screw with you. No, of course not, your not that important when theres tons of other randoms to screw with. Yeah sure they might randomly stumble on your next game and bug ya for giggles, but if your not a whiney fun target to grief you won't stick out. Either that or if you just pwn them they wont bother joining a game with you in it.
If they do make pk optional I hope its a permanent choice so wussies can't level in safe pvm games then hop over to pk.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here we go AGIAN. to you now nick, if the only solution is to make a private game, there is no point. The game was made so people can go out and play with groups of others online, not to lock yourslef in a single room. AGAIN If the game gets to the point where you lose the multiplayer aspect other than playing with 2 firneds that can make it at a time, you lose, and you lose faithful customers. Thas fine to have a seprate room with that mechanic, but it isnt fair to do thaqt to everyone when some people buy the game to play freely without assholes. Baning somone to a single room is bullshit, and if thats what it comes to in D3, I hope everyone quits playing, adn all youll have left is every violent person that wants nothing mroe than to fuck with people, and im glad thats what your sepnding your money to do.
By that logic, we should keep every exploit out there because they don't matter if you can hole yourself up in a passworded game, including bots, hacks, and anything else you can think of. PKing it not your fault, it is the fault the the PKer, the one who choices to catch you completely unknowingly and kills you like a coward.
Well ive played the game a long time im pretty sure I understand how it works and how to get to level 99
No Seth, you are wrong, and heres why. PK is not an exploit. Bots, hacks, and abusing glitches are exploits, and they should be fixed/removed from the game. If PK was on the same level as a hack, then blizzard was pretty stupid for giving everyone a hostile trigger, and warden should ban us all for using it.
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Wise ElderWhat he's saying is no one likes bots/exploits/maphack etc, so you can avoid them by playing only password protected games (because they're not ever going to get 100% fixed, at least not in D2)
Some people don't like PKs so you can avoid them by playing password protected games.
Either way you'd be forced if you wanted to avoid either of those situations completely to play alone basically, which is not good for a game.
I believe the person who you are arguing with is only trying to state that you can be naked and just sit there and leech and hit 99. So skill really isnt involved in leveling up in Diablo. I sat in a Guber game and hit 91 from 1 in a few hours, I was completely naked and afk...no skill needed. To achieve 99 I can do this over and over for a week or so and bam 99...naked...no skill even shot off. I can also do this in baal runs altho it takes more effort, gear and skills are not a neccessity to level up. Solo yes, on Bnet...no.
D3 should really give the players control, allow loot in their games, allow PvP in towns, allow Dueling trades, ect, let us customize our own dueling like we have since D1 has been out, its always been the community that made Dueling what it is. All they need to do is give us the power to customize our games.
1. Serious PvP gamers
2. Casual/Occasional PvP gamers
3. People who just want to PvM solo or in groups (with strangers or friends), either because they are tired of dueling, don't like it, are scared to lose, or just don't think about it.
We can all agree, these groups ALREADY exist, AND, that there will ALWAYS be a fair amount of people in each group. None of these groups will ever disappear as long as Diablo is being played online. But what most people forget is that there is something else to this...
What Blizzard needs to be doing, is thinking about is how to do 2 things:
1. How to improve and streamline the experience of the player, in whichever group they fall into. (which is what I think a majority of the posts in this thread are trying to suggest).
2. Create a system or environment in the game that makes a player feel more COMFORTABLE about going from one group to another.
What we ALL need to remember is that every player's personal preference is legitimate. HOWEVER, when any of us assume that our personal play-style and gaming-goals are the ONLY acceptable option for the rest of the players, nothing good will come of it.
That's why RIGHT NOW we all need to get comfortable with this idea: the players who want different things than we do should get what they want, and we should get what we want as well. I do believe that there is a way to please MOST of the people, it's just a matter of coming up with creative solutions and options.
Yes, players who love to PvP should get what they want. They should have a way to play Diablo 3 that satisfies their love of challenging PvP combat. But FORCING anyone to deal with aspects of the game that they don't like, simply because we do, is wrong. I encourage PvP. I think it's great. BUT, if a PvP player wants more people to man-up and stop being "trash-talking cowards", then that PvP player should be given a system that makes it easier or more appealing for those "trash-talking cowards" to engage in PvP. We can't bully players into playing the way we want. Because they won't, and then no one gets what they want.
How about this as an idea: Let's say I'm a PK and there is someone in a public game who is REALLY pissing me off. They're talking shit and I KNOW I could dominate them. Sure, I could mute them and ignore them, but I'm a PK and I want to teach this person some humility. In D2, all I can do is hostile them and call them out and hope that they take the bait. Not much incentive for that person to fight me is it? And we all know it's very easy for low level players to refuse a duel with a high level player, regardless of how much either of them might deserve a beating. - So how about in D3, if you REALLY want to duel with someone who won't do it (for whatever reason), you can offer them some kind of achievement points for being willing to battle, even if they're scared or just don't want to. It would say to the 'coward' "Hey, if you win, you get these points (which everyone can see on your character stats or profile or whatever) and it proves that you can handle your business. BUT, if you lose, you still get SOME points for being willing to try." I know these "Cred" points may or may not be redeemable for anything physical, but in a community like battle.net, I think they could start to have significance for the players. It's just 1 idea that would give incentive for people to WANT to duel. I'm sure there are more out there.
Theres already level restrictions, lack of any way to follow people from game to game except for pretty much random luck, abilitly to make private games(which you don't have to be in alone fyi), option to run with friends and just beat back a PK'er, and a time interval between when someone declares hostile and when they actually get to you aren't enough, you just won't be happy without 0 PK at all.
On the flipside theres a ton of people who probably won't even bother with the game if PVP amounts to arena only. The most random thing in the game is player interaction, and its mainly a hack and slash/trading game. Blizzards already doing a good job screwing up the trading by making binding gear, and the most random thing in the hack and slash end of the game is pvp encounters, lets hope they don't screw those up as well.
Who's want kill for no reason when they want. I think it's a personnal problem that someone want bother, annoyed or harm personnally. (It's still a game but I hope you're not the same in real life). Yes it's fun to know you're stronger but you have no value and no proud to backstab someone or to kill him when you have a big difference of level or when the other person don't want challenge you. It's just not fair and if you're not agree you're a bad player without ethic and moral. (you want make evil things BUT you don't want someone else do the same with you)
I don't remember who, he said friendly fire should be allowed same as d1. AHAHA and what you do with spells with radius damage ?
Others think uncontroled PK is a problem, right. Agreement from all it's a must, and who don't agreed cannot take a damage from others.
And many people are agree to have customizable rules. I think it's a good thing to have.
Tournament, fighting arena, team : 2vs2 1vs6 4vs4, free-for-all, big land of combat 20vs20... Many ideas is good.
I'm disagree with idea that we choose before hosting if it's a game for duel or for story. I think if we have agreement's system we'll haven't problem with that. If after awhile of playing you want duel you'll need to create a new game ?
For hardcore, an agreement if you lose your character or not after die ! if you die from monsters you don't have choice, you're dead...
escape
click save and exit
join new game
click on corpse laying in town
The pk, after those 4 easy steps, has been made totally irrelavent. The worst part, is knowing you got outplayed...does losing in a game really hurt that bad?
Actually I encourage that. I love when people join my game and try to kill me. I love also taking my LLD into games and killing high levels. Not every PK is a super high level, or is a coward. I am a dead on PK and I get a kick everytime someone tries to kill me or duels me, it's the only thing the game has going for it now, and honestly it's the only reason I have played it for so long (Been playing since day 1 d1..) I didn't sit there and go "Wow! I need to go MF or I need to go LEVEL!!!!!" No I sat there and dueled or killed people, or played the opposite roll of getting hunted and I didn't cry in town I went out and fought the battle.
Even in D2, I think its a terrible exaggeration to suggest that everyone is subject to pks. It might be more accurate to say that everyone level 9 and up who insists on playing in an open game without level restrictions but refuses to leave the game when a higher level character joins and declares hostility is subject to pks. I'm not saying pks are right, but the fact is D2 already has plenty of ways to prevent them from happening.
That said, I think its pretty safe to say D3 will do even more to prevent pks.
Vladdracul has the right idea. There's so many ways to mess with people, either as the attacker, or the victim. I've been on both sides of the coin, and its fun both ways. Hell I've even herded a ton of mobs and opened tp's just to mess with people.
Sure it seems like being a jerk, but its damn fun, and whether you like it or not it adds a huge element of randomness to the game. I've never played a game that was strictly co-op pvm for anywhere near the length of time I've played D2. The thing is, its just a freaking game. If you get owned, sit back, laugh, becuase it was probably hilarious, get better, and maybe you wont get owned the next time.
And as to the general idea, todaays new post finaled it, no PvP in Diablo 3 becasue it takes away from the general idea, good old online play with strangers lol.