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The only stats that are necessary to keep track of, are how many different players you have clicked hostility towards AND killed, OR who killed you. Also, what your respective character levels were at the time of the end of the fight. I'm not suggesting that the whole fight be recorded, or the game keep track of every time the hostility button is clicked, only the results of who killed who, and what the player's levels were. It's simple math that I still believe the programmers could handle. With all the damage calculations that go on for thousands and thousands of players at one time with all the different graphics and junk being done even now with D2, I just can't imagine why it would be so hard.

Quote from "Seth" »

It would if it was just before you got your body back, or if you were on the verge of defeating someone and they kicked you because you were winning.

Heh, TBH it almost sounds the same type of line people say who complain about PK griefers in PvP. So basically, the PvP enable/disable when you make the game is the best idea. Too much control, people say it's bad. Too little control and people say it's bad. Here's the voice of experience speaking now: Sometimes the best decisions are the ones we least like.

Um... If the decision is on a basis of personal opinion, like this whole thread was created to engender, how is it that you can possibly say, in your opinion, that my opinion is wrong because the better decision is the one I don't like?

I was just giving my opinion. If someone did any of that, then yes, I would be very pissed off. It's a system for dishonor and wimps. If they make a public PvP game, they should not have the power to decide who stays and goes. If they wanted that, they should have made a passworded game. It defeats the purpose of a public game. It defeats the purpose of dueling.

Quote from "Seth" »

Um... If the decision is on a basis of personal opinion, like this whole thread was created to engender, how is it that you can possibly say, in your opinion, that my opinion is wrong because the better decision is the one I don't like?

I was just giving my opinion. If someone did any of that, then yes, I would be very pissed off. It's a system for dishonor and wimps. If they make a public PvP game, they should not have the power to decide who stays and goes. If they wanted that, they should have made a passworded game. It defeats the purpose of a public game. It defeats the purpose of dueling.

Sorry i guess i came over harsher than I intended. IMHO, it DID kind of sound like that though.

I agree that any type of admin or in game controls would have too much potential for abuse. Those types of controls would most likely create as many problems as they solve.

I really like the ability to create a game where pvp is disabled. This can be used to prevent some griefers, and better yet it does it without affecting legitimate pvp action.

I think what nightguy1 has suggested about pvp is totally awesome and totally possible. Right now you can inspect players on WoW and see all kinds of statistics, including pvp records. WoW also has arena rankings for players. Similar rankings could be implemented in Diablo 3. There could be a penalty for a high level player who challenges a weaker player and loses. Your pvp rating would simply drop more when defeated by a weaker player than if you were defeated by a stronger player. Similarly, your ranking could raise significantly when you defeat a stronger player, but raise only marginally when you defeat a weaker player. It might be easier to estimate a players strength based on their pvp rating instead of their level and gear, but either way its not impossible. In fact I have seen this sort of ranking system in another game. I would be disappointed if pvp in D3 doesn't include some form of rating / ranking system. A lot of players want to prove how tough they are, and what better way to do it?

Thank you! I knew it wasn't unreasonable. Also, just to add to the conversation about "Diablo should be more like real life so PK should be allowed anywhere at any time". If that were the reality, and it were more like real life, if you just go off an attack someone for no reason, the rest of the community (NPC's in town and other players in the game) would arrest you or kill you. I'd be for PK in any game at any time, IF the NPC's and other players would automatically attack the person who is attacking another player for no reason. There should be consequences like there are in real life. (My personal opinion is that dueling with people who don't want to duel is desperate and annoying.)

Nothing needs to change as long as they keep the town setup the same, with a town exit acting as duel/safe start, the use of mana pots is only a problem w/ the sorceress's Mana Shield but if you know how to duel that should not be a problem, secondly, people are able to easily avoid getting pked if they are even partially competent and go to town.... only people who are sore loosers/ bad duelers will say that there were flaws with the D2 Expansion Dueling System. It allows for quick and fun duels, without a long heal or other problems. Gold stealing wasnt really a problem, if you won, you got gold to repair with, if you lost, the other person gets to repair/stock on manas.

They could work that in a simple way. One thing I can think of is, the leader of a game motions for somone to be booted from game. It akss all other players if they want the character out, and whatever the majority is, wins, that way if one guy is griefing a whole game, they can stop him.

Or have a timelimit between kills of a smae person, eliminate naked PKing, and give some answer to griefers.

Third option might be the ability to kick griefers by non hosting, if somone shows a record of killing a person who HE is hostile with, and is UNhostile against him, the creator has a chance to kick.

I think in the end, the point of PvP in Diablo series as a whole has always been for the peope who WANT to, not for the people who want to hunt, so I still think overall that a consentual set-up-match is best. {potions(orbs) or not, disable/enable waypoints(lack of town portals), small, medium, or large area (how far people can run) and even the ability to turn of disconnection when your about to lose, so you have an honest match.}

Now is my turn to be the naysayer.

Admin privileges, such as the ability to kick a player from a game, have too much potential for abuse. A tool designed to prevent griefing that will ultimately be used by griefers. Its nice to attempt to limit the administrative power by requiring a consensus, but what happens when there are only two players in the game? Is one vote enough to boot a player? Whats to stop a griefer from creating his own game and relentlessly booting other players just for fun? If a majority is required then a single player will never be able to remove a griefer from his game (unless the griefer votes to kick his/herself). Many times when I pked another player it was just one dude in an open game looking for help. This system wouldn't benefit that player at all.

Additionally, I have played a game with this exact mechanism in the past. Battlefield 1942 used to allow players to vote to kick someone out of their game. In spite of my best team killing efforts I was rarely, if ever voted off a server. Most players would simply abstain from a vote, regardless of any circumstance, making it impossible to achieve a majority. I imagine that this could be an issue in Diablo 3 as well.

As I've already pointed out in a previous post, a consentual dueling system has the potential to slow down legitimate pvp combat. Seeing how this thread is about improving pvp for D3 rather than preventing griefing, I thought there would be more ideas that would make pvp more fun. We're probably all familiar with the dueling system in WoW. Yeah it works and yes there would be no non-consentual dueling, but there's a lot of unanswered questions. To quote my earlier post,

Quote from "rockstar" »

Many players will still want the ability to join a game and start killing other players asap. If I join a full pvp game and want to take on 7 guys will I have to walk up to each of them individually, challenge them to a duel, and wait for all of them to accept? What happens when someone dies? Is the duel over, ending hostility? This would prevent naked killing, but at the cost of bogging down pvp combat. What happened to the days of joining a duel game and killing eachother until the sun comes up? Now every time I die I'd have to rechallenge all 7 other players. My point is simply that some mechanisms that might sound like good ways to prevent pks could actually hinder legitimate pvp combat.

Yes I agree that duels in D3 should be consentual and honest, but pvp should also stay fast and fun. Under this type of system, if someone tried to make a free for all duel game like we had in D2, players would be spending the majority of their time rechallenging fallen opponents instead of killing people as in D2.

The problem here is that these systems neither eliminate griefing or enhance pvp play. I guarantee admin tools will be used by griefers (I once got a guy voted off a server because he had a stupid name), which might only make the situation worse. Requiring consent for every duel might eliminate pks (only ONE form of griefing), but compared to D2, legitimate pvp action could suffer for it.

I'm not saying these two ideas wouldn't be marginally helpful. The problem is that we've just added an extra duel interface AND an extra game administration interface and all we've really accomplished is to make legitimate pvp a little less fun than it was before. Instead of getting pked, griefers will just boot you from their games, which isn't a whole lot better in my opinion. Exactly how many new interfaces and tools is Blizzard going to have to introduce to combat griefing before they tell you to just create a passworded game?

Using a passworded game isn't that bad, either. Even on battlenet you could spam chat and look for people to join your quest in a passworded game if you really wanted to. I'll be disappointed if b-net 2.0 doesn't have an even better way of finding people to party with. Seriously, the only difference between a passworded game and an open game is the fact that you get to chose who can join your passworded game. Everything in game is exactly the same so its not like you're gonna miss out on anything, aside from the griefing. For the record, I've never been pked in a private game, and I've never griefed anyone in a private game. Passwording your game is simple yet entirely effective. I don't think there's a better solution.

I still think the ability to create open games where pvp is disabled is a cool idea. The thing is it only eliminates pks (without affecting legit pvp), and not other forms of griefing. Back in my griefing days I promise you I would've joined such a game and killed all the act bosses before you could get to them just for activating such a protection, though. If you don't like griefers then password your games. Period. There is no better protection.

To reiterate something that might be construed as being constructive, my first post suggested moving pvp to an arena system. Check out this thread: http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22295
Having an arena for pvp could also eliminate pks while at the same time making pvp more fun, which is the kind of solution I think we're looking for.

PK isn't losing... It's getting murdered by someone vastly more powerful than you without their consent. I consider it high cowardice and a dishonorable way to play the game. You can't lose at something you aren't trying at, or else every runner would be a loser for the race they haven't had yet, so since they aren't able to defend themselves, I don't see it as a challenge and, by extension, not something one can "lose" at.

I mean, I'm fine with you guys all having your own server so you can go around killing the weak, but I want to play the game, not run in to a field, have some level 99 come in and kill me at level 10, call me nubshit and then leave.

Your both wrong, items, sure have alot to do with it, but even the shittiest palyer have hella better items at level 90 than 30, becuas eof the fact, WHERE ARE YOU TRIAINING TO GET TO THE LEVEL, resulting in Uber equips. AND Even say level 30 cuz ur sayin 9-20 or 30, w.e., your just being introduced to ur lv30 skills. I have a lv72necro on west, whos bonespirit does 10k per hit. IDC HOW GOOD you are OR WHAT CLASS, no level 30 is winning with a bonespirit and spammed boneprison ESPECIALLY if you know how to doublecast without hacking. Ive never been beaten by anyone unde rlevel 75, and thats barb class with max dmg ww and max hp, or a pally with max FOH. Other thn that, im killing up to level92 any class, except pally, but even some barb. The fact is, level matters becuase of equipment you can get, and skills. Anyone will agree, anyone who can even put the time to LEVEL to 90 for your argument matter, will never lose to anyone 9-30. probably 9-50 unless your agianst a badass lv50 abrb or pally.

The ONLY time ive lost to somone under 50 was once by a level 42 barbarian who hacked. He had unlim hacked max rejuv. IDKH but badass hack is all I can say, anytime he took a single hit, it automatically consumed a full rejuv. I mean, after he killed me, we sat there and i fired 400BS at him, and it kept going... badass hack
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Quote from "Seth" »

PK isn't losing... It's getting murdered by someone vastly more powerful than you without their consent. I consider it high cowardice and a dishonorable way to play the game. You can't lose at something you aren't trying at, or else right now I have lost everything I haven't done in life, so since they aren't able to defend themselves, I don't see it as a challenge and, by extension, not something one can "lose" at.

I mean, I'm fine with you guys all having your own server so you can go around killing the weak, but I want to play the game, not run in to a field, have some level 99 come in and kill me at level 10, call me nubshit and then leave.

SETH! I love you, no homo... lol FINALLY SOMEBODY ELSE GETS IT!

I will not deny it is fun, though. Sorry. Anything you shouldn't do is fun

"when im lvl ten i dont want a high lvl coming in a creaming me"

first off, people who beat norm cant see norm games and ppl who beat nm cant see nm games .

second, how often does that really happen? b/c i would say it happens 1 a month if im in a streak of bad luck.. really not that bad of a thing, go pick up ur body or leave then carry on with your life..

third, DIABLO MEANS DEVIL.. as in lord of terror... as in your going to get killed if you play this game.

fourth, that feeling when somone hostiles you.. awsome now you know the battle is on... trying to kill a pker is one of the best parts of the game, another is being the pker.

fifth, lvls mean pratically nothing... and ur necro stands no chance, lol doublecast without hack? i did that before i even knew what it was... i wouldnt consider that a diablo skill, its more of a necessity then an outstanding skill.

and last, ppl need to die.. its part of the game

edit: the game is rated mature.... most ppl here prob arent even over 18 or 17 whatever the age is to play diablo.

you should stopa acting ignorant and fight people your skill level. And sorry, ive raped so many LLDs it isnt funny. And i didnt say gear to do the RUN I said FROM the runs, so you PROVED ME RIGHT. You can cream baal with nothing, and still get the drops which give you better items. Your just ignorant.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- and to the other, My necro stands no chance? Did you even read my posts? Ive never been defeated by anyone under lv75. And actually, not many can doublecast without hack, not a real doublecast. If so, how do you do it??? Didnt think so. Btw a true doub with my necro means 20,000 damage almsot every half second if you time your casts right. I can cast at you for 2 seoncds and spam prison, not even a sorc can get away from prison if you know how to spam it right.

fact


i have never been hunted down and killed repeatedly, you must be a total (dont wanna get my permaban thats been long coming)....

dorge, im just wondering why are necros good? seriously, i want to kno wwhat you think makes them good.. i bet ur dead wrong.