In the one picture the chestplate kind of looks like it has a upturned sword "blazing" on it.
It would make sense in a way. He wants to destroy sanctuary and the word "blazing" was used just like in the picture.
If you look closer at the sketch at the very top in that picture it looks like Tyrael to me in the bottom right clutching his eyes. So maybe he confronted Imperius and tried to stop him but Imperius engulfed himself in a blaze and fell to earth.
What does everyone else think about this?
I fixed the image for you.
And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet:
Please only constructive posts only. I wan't this to be a fairly serious discussion.
Cool I'm quoted
I have no doubt however that the High Heavens are going to instead attack the Sanctuary instead of defending it. Imperius leading the campaign doesn't seem far-fetched at all. Then he has to go against the rest of the Angiris Council to make them see his view, does 20 years seem the right amount the time to do it?
Ihave no doubt however that the High Heavens are going to instead attack the Sanctuary instead of defending it. Inarius leading the campaign doesn't seem far-fetched at all. Then he has to go against the rest of the Angiris Council to make them see his view, does 20 years seem the right amount the time to do it?
Imperius not Inarius.
The council might decide to sit it out, they don't like to be involved. Then again they got involved with Inarius. Who knows. It would explain the 20 year time gap.
In the past, Tyrael had the strongest vote over the Angiris Council. The comet maybe Tyrael's warning AND also Tyrael himself, cast out from the High Heavens by Imperius. With Tyrael gone, the Angiris Council's high judgement darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary
In the past, Tyrael had the strongest vote over the Angiris Council. The comet maybe Tyrael's warning AND also Tyrael himself, cast out from the High Heavens by Imperius. With Tyrael gone, the Angiris Council's high judgement darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary
I could see that. Possibly Imperius finally convinces the council Sanctuary needs to be destroyed once and for all. Then they throw Tyrael out of Heaven.
In the past, Tyrael had the strongest vote over the Angiris Council. The comet maybe Tyrael's warning AND also Tyrael himself, cast out from the High Heavens by Imperius. With Tyrael gone, the Angiris Council's high judgment darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary
Parts I agree with:
Tyrael's punishment for becoming too involved with the humans is to be cast out from the Angiris Council. With him gone, the vote is 3-2 in favor of destroying Sanctuary. Even if they spent 20 mortal years finding a replacement on the Council, 20 years is nothing to them. And now the vote is likely 4-2 in favor of destroying Sanctuary--or even more lopsided as Tyrael stands as an example that the evils of the world will just suck them in and lead them on a path of Chaos (Tyrael acting without the blessings of the Council is Chaotic Good at best).
"the Angiris Council's high judgment darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary"
Parts I disagree with:
The meteor/comet (comet in spece, meteor as it falls) is Tyreal. I just do not buy it. A sign from Tyrael maybe. But I just will not subscribe to the theory that Tyrael goes all flashy in a ball of light and crashes into the cathedral with a bowl of frozen Cool Whip to save his cherished humans. Tyrael is not our buddy. He does not want to bring us whipped topping for our desserts. If anything, Tyrael holds a cocky belief that the free will of humans will show the legions of Burning Hells that Order is better than Chaos when the humans choose Order. I know. I get to be alone in my notion that Tyrael does not want to join a sewing circle with humans.
Possibly Imperius finally convinces the council Sanctuary needs to be destroyed once and for all. Then they throw Tyrael out of Heaven.
OK, now we are approaching a Tyrael-comet theory I can discuss without mentioning Cool Whip. The only thing I would say is it is more specific. Like, Imperius says, "You value the lives of humans so much, YOU go and be with them!" And then he banishes Tyrael to the mortal realm some how.
I don't like the idea of a fallen angel/cast out angel crashing to Sanctuary because it implies physical relationships between the location of Heaven and Sanctuary.
Next question about this for me would be: If Trag' Oul is the consciousness of the universe, could he be responsible for the comet somehow?
Yes! Yes! I like it all- I tried saying that there were two angels in that artwork but no one would believe me. It's nice to see that there are still people with eyes on these forums
We know that angels can't stay in sanctuary for long (Act 3 cinematic of D2 when Tyrael says that the power that holds him to Sanctuary is fading fast and he can't stay)...so how is it that Imperius could come to Sanctuary and stay while retaining power?
That is what the soulstones did for the Prime Evils... They allowed them to anchor to the mortal plane and retain great amounts of power
Any ideas on how Imperius could do this? Maybe a shard from the Worldstone? Or maybe it isn't needed any longer since the Worldstone is destroyed?
Of course! The whole plan of Hell was to fight Heaven straight-on, but until the Worldstone was destroyed, they couldn't do it. Now they can use Sanctuary as the battle field since there are no restrictions.
Tyrael's punishment for becoming too involved with the humans is to be cast out from the Angiris Council. With him gone, the vote is 3-2 in favor of destroying Sanctuary. Even if they spent 20 mortal years finding a replacement on the Council, 20 years is nothing to them. And now the vote is likely 4-2 in favor of destroying Sanctuary--or even more lopsided as Tyrael stands as an example that the evils of the world will just suck them in and lead them on a path of Chaos (Tyrael acting without the blessings of the Council is Chaotic Good at best).
"the Angiris Council's high judgment darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary"
Parts I disagree with:
The meteor/comet (comet in spece, meteor as it falls) is Tyreal. I just do not buy it. A sign from Tyrael maybe. But I just will not subscribe to the theory that Tyrael goes all flashy in a ball of light and crashes into the cathedral with a bowl of frozen Cool Whip to save his cherished humans. Tyrael is not our buddy. He does not want to bring us whipped topping for our desserts. If anything, Tyrael holds a cocky belief that the free will of humans will show the legions of Burning Hells that Order is better than Chaos when the humans choose Order. I know. I get to be alone in my notion that Tyrael does not want to join a sewing circle with humans.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think if that comet is an angel (which I do not think it is) it's Imperius. For Tyrael to come to Sanctuary he doesn't need to ride in a fireball. I think people get caught up in "heaven is above and hell is below" idea and they assume that anything coming from above is Heaven and anything coming from below is Hell. These are more or less metaphors. Heaven and Hell are not on the mortal plane at all so their space in relation to Sanctuary is not "above" and "below" per se.
I do however totally agree with Tyrael being kicked off the council. We know he is punished, the developers said so in the panel. Since he was the deciding vote, the council would have inevitably chosen to destroy Sanctuary, and who better to do it that the Archangel of War (theory) himself, Imperius.
I don't like the idea of a fallen angel/cast out angel crashing to Sanctuary because it implies physical relationships between the location of Heaven and Sanctuary.
Wow...we thought of this exactly at the same time...
This theory is by far one of the most thought out, instead of the crap about Tyrael being corrupted, ect, ect.
You guys also have to understand that the designers often do not follow the concept art exactly and often over exagerate certain features or change them, such as a up turned blazing sword into a cross.
I remember seeing a Latin symbol (I think) that looks like a cross but has a circle on the top, which I can sort of see on the top of this symbol on the chest. I have no idea what it means though so...
Although these ideas are completely random, I try and think of other possibilities before landing on one for sure. The lore from the looks and strong opinions are going against the other ideas though, so it's probably what is mentioned above.
Really interesting though, I'll have to get ahold of the books and read them to get a better insight.
Let me try to counter these...
1. The Crusader symbol stood for the cross of Jesus Christ. Although there is some Judeo/Christian ideas taken in Diablo...Christ is not one, so i refuse any possibility of a cross being used to symbolize angels.
2. Could be...just doesn't look like your typical crack...the shape is very specific...it seems the artist was trying to make this appear as specific as possible. I would imagine a crack to be more random.
3.I don't see a circle towards the top of the symbol. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough ;-)
I thought this at first but after checking, it is actually correct. An upturned sword is one which has its hilt facing toward the sky and blade to the ground. Basically means upside down - sort of tricky.
Hmm...that is very interesting...I was in the process just now of looking that up too!
OT: I just wanted to say that nothing makes me cringe more than Rich Knaak's awful rhetoric.
"...declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed..."
"Yuck," declared a disgusted reader, "why doesn't mighty Blizzard spend some of their massive amounts of emerald green money to hire an author who doesn't write like a dysfunctional high-school student?"
which would put it in the category of bad rather than good.
Yeah, but I think it is wrong to say Angels = good while demons = evil. Ever seen Babylon 5? Similar story with the Shadows and the Vorlons.
The Angels represent Order and think that the universe requires it to survive and grow. The demons represent Chaos and believe that the universe should evolve naturally in a survival of the fittest scenario. Neither side is beyond subterfuge and coercion to progress its goals.
Well the Archangel Yaerius is not part of the Council which Tyrael and Imperius are in. It's believed (among fans) that Yaerius is an 'evil' or 'corrupted' Angel because his introduction of the Zakarum religion lead to a lot of fanatical slaughterings and murders which would put it in the category of bad rather than good.
It's quite possible that Yaerius is not an Angel at all, first we've never heard of him and though the fact that he is an Archangel he doesn't even belong to the Angiris Council. Why would an Archangel want to start a religion and then disapear? This is quite suspicious.
Moreover it wouldn't be the first time that a demon appears as an Angel to a human, remember Kingdom of Shadows? Or even Marius and Baal?
As for the Cross, I think it might be a symbol of power and focus. Notice the node on the skill icon of Holy Shield. It's like the cross just symbolized the point where powers unite or something.
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Wise ElderI kind of wonder that also. Possibly just coincidence, or that's where it inteded to land who knows.
Cool I'm quoted
I have no doubt however that the High Heavens are going to instead attack the Sanctuary instead of defending it. Imperius leading the campaign doesn't seem far-fetched at all. Then he has to go against the rest of the Angiris Council to make them see his view, does 20 years seem the right amount the time to do it?
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Wise ElderImperius not Inarius.
The council might decide to sit it out, they don't like to be involved. Then again they got involved with Inarius. Who knows. It would explain the 20 year time gap.
In the past, Tyrael had the strongest vote over the Angiris Council. The comet maybe Tyrael's warning AND also Tyrael himself, cast out from the High Heavens by Imperius. With Tyrael gone, the Angiris Council's high judgement darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary
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Wise ElderI could see that. Possibly Imperius finally convinces the council Sanctuary needs to be destroyed once and for all. Then they throw Tyrael out of Heaven.
- Tyrael's punishment for becoming too involved with the humans is to be cast out from the Angiris Council. With him gone, the vote is 3-2 in favor of destroying Sanctuary. Even if they spent 20 mortal years finding a replacement on the Council, 20 years is nothing to them. And now the vote is likely 4-2 in favor of destroying Sanctuary--or even more lopsided as Tyrael stands as an example that the evils of the world will just suck them in and lead them on a path of Chaos (Tyrael acting without the blessings of the Council is Chaotic Good at best).
- "the Angiris Council's high judgment darkens, and the luminaries start to fail, as they wage war with the Burning Hells on the Sanctuary"
Parts I disagree with:I don't like the idea of a fallen angel/cast out angel crashing to Sanctuary because it implies physical relationships between the location of Heaven and Sanctuary.
Next question about this for me would be: If Trag' Oul is the consciousness of the universe, could he be responsible for the comet somehow?
Of course! The whole plan of Hell was to fight Heaven straight-on, but until the Worldstone was destroyed, they couldn't do it. Now they can use Sanctuary as the battle field since there are no restrictions.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think if that comet is an angel (which I do not think it is) it's Imperius. For Tyrael to come to Sanctuary he doesn't need to ride in a fireball. I think people get caught up in "heaven is above and hell is below" idea and they assume that anything coming from above is Heaven and anything coming from below is Hell. These are more or less metaphors. Heaven and Hell are not on the mortal plane at all so their space in relation to Sanctuary is not "above" and "below" per se.
I do however totally agree with Tyrael being kicked off the council. We know he is punished, the developers said so in the panel. Since he was the deciding vote, the council would have inevitably chosen to destroy Sanctuary, and who better to do it that the Archangel of War (theory) himself, Imperius.
Wow...we thought of this exactly at the same time...
In all seriousness...if I am wrong, I will gladly come back and admit it.
You guys also have to understand that the designers often do not follow the concept art exactly and often over exagerate certain features or change them, such as a up turned blazing sword into a cross.
Let me try to counter these...
1. The Crusader symbol stood for the cross of Jesus Christ. Although there is some Judeo/Christian ideas taken in Diablo...Christ is not one, so i refuse any possibility of a cross being used to symbolize angels.
2. Could be...just doesn't look like your typical crack...the shape is very specific...it seems the artist was trying to make this appear as specific as possible. I would imagine a crack to be more random.
3.I don't see a circle towards the top of the symbol. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough ;-)
It's a "downturned sword"
Hmm...that is very interesting...I was in the process just now of looking that up too!
Our theory is saved! lol
http://www.sc2armory.com/
Sister sites.
"...declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed..."
"Yuck," declared a disgusted reader, "why doesn't mighty Blizzard spend some of their massive amounts of emerald green money to hire an author who doesn't write like a dysfunctional high-school student?"
The Angels represent Order and think that the universe requires it to survive and grow. The demons represent Chaos and believe that the universe should evolve naturally in a survival of the fittest scenario. Neither side is beyond subterfuge and coercion to progress its goals.
It's quite possible that Yaerius is not an Angel at all, first we've never heard of him and though the fact that he is an Archangel he doesn't even belong to the Angiris Council. Why would an Archangel want to start a religion and then disapear? This is quite suspicious.
Moreover it wouldn't be the first time that a demon appears as an Angel to a human, remember Kingdom of Shadows? Or even Marius and Baal?
As for the Cross, I think it might be a symbol of power and focus. Notice the node on the skill icon of Holy Shield. It's like the cross just symbolized the point where powers unite or something.