in watching the gameplay video for the wizard i was kind of disturbed. There seemed to be a lack of harmony between the spells and the animations. we see this incredibly powerful red beam and lightning and all the wizard is doing is sticking her hands out. it looks like she put absolutely no effort into a) pulling off the spell or keeping it going. i find it really hard to believe that any attack that can be pulled off with such ease is going to be a powerful attack.
there needs to be some sort of build up to powerful attacks. a character should just 'do them'. a possible solution would be a system similar to that of 'super smash bros brawl' on the wii. in smash bros you can either perform a quick attack which does low damage or you can charge up your hit and have it do a huge amount of damage.
this isnt just about the idea of charging attacks, its about building harmony between the gameplay and the animation. in smash bros when you see an opponent charging an attack you KNOW that the attack is going to do a lot of damage if it connects. the visual cues are there. you have your character standing there charging up the attack with dust and rocks etc floating up from the charge, you know its going to be a big hit.
in watching the gameplay videos i had no idea how powerful the attacks were or if one spell was stronger than another spell, everything seemed equally effortless for the character. im not necessarily recommending a 'super smash bros brawl' style attack charging system but i am saying that something needs to be done.
I have an idea what you're talking about....the way I see it though Smash Bros is a fighting game so I think showing an attack charging is more valid there.
Of course if you look at D2 it's the same way; I mean a sorc puts no more effort into ice bolt than she does into ice orb for example.
I think the barb does do this though. His attacks have the visual cue of power behind them. Maybe a) they don't want that for the Wizard since she is supposed to be like a glass cannon or they are working on it. Keep in mind the game is still in production; I'm sure lots of things are going to change from conception to the finished product.
I think for the fast pace action of D3, charge up skills don't really fit in. I agree with emil that it should just look better the higher/more dmg it does.
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I think for the fast pace action of D3, charge up skills don't really fit in.
I agree. When your surrounded by enemies, you don't wanna have to wait 4 seconds to cast a spell while the monsters are destroying you. It's one of the things I hated about WoW, and I love that game.
Just one thing, we are comparing to SSBB It is alot more fast paced than Diablo. Atleast imo.
SSB and SSBM yes, SSBB, no.
Anyway.
I would never, ever want all my abilities as a wizard to have need of any kind of charging delay for full power. I think it could be an original part of some abilities, but only some specific ones, maybe some very powerful ones.
As far as Diablo goes, I actually like how you can just throw your spells without a problem. Characters in Diablo are extremely powerful, so if something looks natural to do for him... maybe thats because it is and is supposed to be.
Just one thing, we are comparing to SSBB It is alot more fast paced than Diablo. Atleast imo.
yea but in smash you are fighting only a few guys at a time and they are player controlled. In D3 you will be fighting 20 zombies at once and there only goal is to kill you.
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dont get too caught up on the smash bros idea. this thread was more concerning powerful attacks seeming too effortless for the character to pull off. i think the bare minimum is that the casting animation needs to be improved a great deal.
in basic animation principals we have something called anticipation. an anticipation animation is an animation (it can sometimes be subtle) that occurs before the primary animation.
ill use dragonball z for an example. lets say the primary action that goku wants to do is fire a beam at an enemy. instead of going straight into the beam animation an anticipation is added to make it look more believable. for example he may hold his hand up in the air, indicating that he is about to fire some sort of one handed energy attack.
the addition of the anticipation animation (goku putting hid hand up in the air behind him before firing the beam) makes the world of difference when it comes to making people believe in the power of an attack.
i.e in DBZ the animation of goku firing a small energy ball is very different to him doing a kamehameha and from that alone we instantly get a feel for a lot more such as how strong the attacks are, how much of a toll they take on him, how hard they are to do etc.
a charging system of spells was probably not the core idea that i was trying to get across but instead making the casting animations resemble the level / difficulty / power of the attack.
Simply changing the animations without actually making the spells take much longer to cast.. thats tricky. Changing the length is an obvious no, as said above.
Its true that Dragon Ball gives the feeling of power... especially when they charge for 1 episode and a half.. but its a game play question here. A DBZ game wouldn't be fun if you had to stand here 30 minutes to unleash your super powerful kamehameha. And I certainly don't see long delays to be welcomed by many in Diablo 3.
Now, maybe the animations in D3 are currently too direct, I'd have to look at them again. Its nice to see part of the power come from your body, so in the little -casting time- there is in Diablo, its nice to have a very fast "charging" animation.
I think that some sort of animation change can make the spell look a lot "harder" or more "powerful". However taking longer just wont work unless you are talking milliseconds
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Diablo is a fast paced game, that's why there are no gay charge up to cast spells. Read my sig TC...
__________________
Keep in mind, Diablo is an action adventure game before an rpg. So keep your Guild wars, WoW, Baldur's gate and Dungeons & Dragons suggestions the hell away from here.
Your attitude and close mindedness is a serious waste of time. You should consider the battle.net forum. There, they all act like that and no one cares. You might like the place.
The spells look effortles to cast because they are.
The point and click diablo-like gameplay forces you to shoot spells in a very high ration even the very powerfull ones. Any animation that stop this process is not welcome. What they can do is make the most powerfull spells looks more powerfull, but disable your character everytime he cast a powerfull spell sux.
As said in the orc statue in central blizzard - Gameplay First.
dont get too caught up on the smash bros idea. this thread was more concerning powerful attacks seeming too effortless for the character to pull off. i think the bare minimum is that the casting animation needs to be improved a great deal.
You're right, it shouldn't be effortless, but effort can come from different means. SUCH AS....
Mana costs!
A wizard is going to be vulnerable enough as it is, let's face it. I can see the build up system being effective if it could be offset by fast cast rate mods and such. But I think these spells would be better balanced with varying energy costs. Or even a 'concentration' cost to hold it - you know, when it constantly drains mana the more you hold it. That extra second to build can be very very critical and frustrating.
You're right, it shouldn't be effortless, but effort can come from different means. SUCH AS....
Mana costs!
A wizard is going to be vulnerable enough as it is, let's face it. I can see the build up system being effective if it could be offset by fast cast rate mods and such. But I think these spells would be better balanced with varying energy costs. Or even a 'concentration' cost to hold it - you know, when it constantly drains mana the more you hold it. That extra second to build can be very very critical and frustrating.
yes mana cost is a way of showing how much energy was used / how hard / powerful the attack way but i strongly beleive that the character should show it somehow. ill give a diablo example.
say i have just bought the game and i have no idea about any of the spells that the wizard or any class has. I choose barbarian and i enter a game. now one of my cool buddies already has a level 90 wizard and he comes to the server with me to help me out.
now my level 90 wizard friend uses various spells while helping me. all of his attacks kill the enemies instantly because he is such a high level so i cant use his damage to the creeps to gauge how strong his attacks are. now HE knows how strong his attacks are because his gui tells him how much mana they are using and what level the attacks are but I have no way of visually seeing this information. i would literally have to ask him what level his spells are and how much damage they have etc so that i could compare his spells.
you guys are right that gameplay may be affected by delays due to casting time so a charging is probably not the way to go. but i still think something needs to be done, i just felt so detached from the character while watching the gameplay videos. perhaps even some sort of graphical way of showing mana being used. maybe like some sort of cool looking blue aura that appears while he is using an attack that uses mana. the more mana that is being used the bigger and more furious the aura becomes or something like that. just something
yes mana cost is a way of showing how much energy was used / how hard / powerful the attack way but i strongly beleive that the character should show it somehow. ill give a diablo example.
say i have just bought the game and i have no idea about any of the spells that the wizard or any class has. I choose barbarian and i enter a game. now one of my cool buddies already has a level 90 wizard and he comes to the server with me to help me out.
now my level 90 wizard friend uses various spells while helping me. all of his attacks kill the enemies instantly because he is such a high level so i cant use his damage to the creeps to gauge how strong his attacks are. now HE knows how strong his attacks are because his gui tells him how much mana they are using and what level the attacks are but I have no way of visually seeing this information. i would literally have to ask him what level his spells are and how much damage they have etc so that i could compare his spells.
you guys are right that gameplay may be affected by delays due to casting time so a charging is probably not the way to go. but i still think something needs to be done, i just felt so detached from the character while watching the gameplay videos. perhaps even some sort of graphical way of showing mana being used. maybe like some sort of cool looking blue aura that appears while he is using an attack that uses mana. the more mana that is being used the bigger and more furious the aura becomes or something like that. just something
If you just boughte the game and your friend is level 90 im going to ask..Why would you wait so long to buy Diablo3?
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I very much like your idea. However, the diablo community has become accustomed to zero charge-up time and maybe some cooldown for the higher powered spells.
e.g. ice bolt can be cast very rapidly one after the other while you must wait a few seconds between casting each blizzard spell. But there must be NO charging up involved
Diablo just isn't that kind of game.
But yes, a quick little "I'm trying hard" animation would be nice.
I think we all just need to calm down. Diablo 3 is at least a year away from being released. I was told the end of 2010, Nov. Oct. Dec. somewhere in there. That means they have plenty of time to decide EXACTLY how to fix some stuff. I don't think they're done with the wizard/witch doctor. The Barbarian is perfect, so they don't need to mess with him :P. If you all just wait a little while, I'm sure some kind of brief animation, or some kind of charge, or the imbolization (sp.) will be put into effect if Blizzard sees it fit to do so. Otherwise, they're making Diablo 3. Can't you just be happy about that?
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there needs to be some sort of build up to powerful attacks. a character should just 'do them'. a possible solution would be a system similar to that of 'super smash bros brawl' on the wii. in smash bros you can either perform a quick attack which does low damage or you can charge up your hit and have it do a huge amount of damage.
this isnt just about the idea of charging attacks, its about building harmony between the gameplay and the animation. in smash bros when you see an opponent charging an attack you KNOW that the attack is going to do a lot of damage if it connects. the visual cues are there. you have your character standing there charging up the attack with dust and rocks etc floating up from the charge, you know its going to be a big hit.
in watching the gameplay videos i had no idea how powerful the attacks were or if one spell was stronger than another spell, everything seemed equally effortless for the character. im not necessarily recommending a 'super smash bros brawl' style attack charging system but i am saying that something needs to be done.
Of course if you look at D2 it's the same way; I mean a sorc puts no more effort into ice bolt than she does into ice orb for example.
I think the barb does do this though. His attacks have the visual cue of power behind them. Maybe a) they don't want that for the Wizard since she is supposed to be like a glass cannon or they are working on it. Keep in mind the game is still in production; I'm sure lots of things are going to change from conception to the finished product.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
I agree. When your surrounded by enemies, you don't wanna have to wait 4 seconds to cast a spell while the monsters are destroying you. It's one of the things I hated about WoW, and I love that game.
Anyway.
I would never, ever want all my abilities as a wizard to have need of any kind of charging delay for full power. I think it could be an original part of some abilities, but only some specific ones, maybe some very powerful ones.
As far as Diablo goes, I actually like how you can just throw your spells without a problem. Characters in Diablo are extremely powerful, so if something looks natural to do for him... maybe thats because it is and is supposed to be.
yea but in smash you are fighting only a few guys at a time and they are player controlled. In D3 you will be fighting 20 zombies at once and there only goal is to kill you.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
in basic animation principals we have something called anticipation. an anticipation animation is an animation (it can sometimes be subtle) that occurs before the primary animation.
ill use dragonball z for an example. lets say the primary action that goku wants to do is fire a beam at an enemy. instead of going straight into the beam animation an anticipation is added to make it look more believable. for example he may hold his hand up in the air, indicating that he is about to fire some sort of one handed energy attack.
the addition of the anticipation animation (goku putting hid hand up in the air behind him before firing the beam) makes the world of difference when it comes to making people believe in the power of an attack.
i.e in DBZ the animation of goku firing a small energy ball is very different to him doing a kamehameha and from that alone we instantly get a feel for a lot more such as how strong the attacks are, how much of a toll they take on him, how hard they are to do etc.
a charging system of spells was probably not the core idea that i was trying to get across but instead making the casting animations resemble the level / difficulty / power of the attack.
Its true that Dragon Ball gives the feeling of power... especially when they charge for 1 episode and a half.. but its a game play question here. A DBZ game wouldn't be fun if you had to stand here 30 minutes to unleash your super powerful kamehameha. And I certainly don't see long delays to be welcomed by many in Diablo 3.
Now, maybe the animations in D3 are currently too direct, I'd have to look at them again. Its nice to see part of the power come from your body, so in the little -casting time- there is in Diablo, its nice to have a very fast "charging" animation.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
Your attitude and close mindedness is a serious waste of time. You should consider the battle.net forum. There, they all act like that and no one cares. You might like the place.
The point and click diablo-like gameplay forces you to shoot spells in a very high ration even the very powerfull ones. Any animation that stop this process is not welcome. What they can do is make the most powerfull spells looks more powerfull, but disable your character everytime he cast a powerfull spell sux.
As said in the orc statue in central blizzard - Gameplay First.
You're right, it shouldn't be effortless, but effort can come from different means. SUCH AS....
Mana costs!
A wizard is going to be vulnerable enough as it is, let's face it. I can see the build up system being effective if it could be offset by fast cast rate mods and such. But I think these spells would be better balanced with varying energy costs. Or even a 'concentration' cost to hold it - you know, when it constantly drains mana the more you hold it. That extra second to build can be very very critical and frustrating.
yes mana cost is a way of showing how much energy was used / how hard / powerful the attack way but i strongly beleive that the character should show it somehow. ill give a diablo example.
say i have just bought the game and i have no idea about any of the spells that the wizard or any class has. I choose barbarian and i enter a game. now one of my cool buddies already has a level 90 wizard and he comes to the server with me to help me out.
now my level 90 wizard friend uses various spells while helping me. all of his attacks kill the enemies instantly because he is such a high level so i cant use his damage to the creeps to gauge how strong his attacks are. now HE knows how strong his attacks are because his gui tells him how much mana they are using and what level the attacks are but I have no way of visually seeing this information. i would literally have to ask him what level his spells are and how much damage they have etc so that i could compare his spells.
you guys are right that gameplay may be affected by delays due to casting time so a charging is probably not the way to go. but i still think something needs to be done, i just felt so detached from the character while watching the gameplay videos. perhaps even some sort of graphical way of showing mana being used. maybe like some sort of cool looking blue aura that appears while he is using an attack that uses mana. the more mana that is being used the bigger and more furious the aura becomes or something like that. just something
If you just boughte the game and your friend is level 90 im going to ask..Why would you wait so long to buy Diablo3?
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
e.g. ice bolt can be cast very rapidly one after the other while you must wait a few seconds between casting each blizzard spell. But there must be NO charging up involved
Diablo just isn't that kind of game.
But yes, a quick little "I'm trying hard" animation would be nice.
Here's to hoping His Noodly Appendage touches you and may His Sauce rain down upon you,
-GM
RAmen
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster website: www.venganza.org