So, to sum this idea up, I guess, this was the thought process:
1. We want to avoid melee combat because it's disadvantagous.
2. Instead of rolling a ranged class, we make it work with the Barb.
3. We try to make the 130% weapon damage Weapon Throw spammable.
3a. To achieve this we reduce its cost down to 5 via items.
3b. We use a mighty Weapon with Weaponmaster to get 3 of those 5 fury back, reducing the effective cost to 2.
3c. We use the slowest, heaviest hitting possible weapon (2h) to minimize the fury cost per time. Let's say 1.00 attacks per second, that's 2 fury per second and 120 fury per minute.
3d. We use several non-melee usable cooldown abilities to fuel this fury need. Pretty easy.
Now that we had to give up our survival abilities(mainly passives), we can't go into melee anymore anyway and enter the realm of glass cannons. This means, we could gear for full dps and be a oneshot or spend millions to survive some hits.
Sounds like an auto attacking Demon Hunter with zero discipline to me(I have both at 60).
Sorry for being harsh
So, to sum this idea up, I guess, this was the thought process:
1. We want to avoid melee combat because it's disadvantagous.
2. Instead of rolling a ranged class, we make it work with the Barb.
3. We try to make the 130% weapon damage Weapon Throw spammable.
3a. To achieve this we reduce its cost down to 5 via items.
3b. We use a mighty Weapon with Weaponmaster to get 3 of those 5 fury back, reducing the effective cost to 2.
3c. We use the slowest, heaviest hitting possible weapon (2h) to minimize the fury cost per time. Let's say 1.00 attacks per second, that's 2 fury per second and 120 fury per minute.
3d. We use several non-melee usable cooldown abilities to fuel this fury need. Pretty easy.
Now that we had to give up our survival abilities(mainly passives), we can't go into melee anymore anyway and enter the realm of glass cannons. This means, we could gear for full dps and be a oneshot or spend millions to survive some hits.
Sounds like an auto attacking Demon Hunter with zero discipline to me(I have both at 60).
Sorry for being harsh
If you're gonna bash at least know your facts.
1. Of course, this is what makes gear with strength and no vit cheap.
2. I wasn't lucky enough to roll a Wizard or DH at launch, so I make a cheap and viable build.
3. 145%, but yes.
3a. This is the most important part and the obligatory one if you have no other gear.
3b. Not really, Mighty Weapon is only used to make Impunity viable with low CHC (With Charge! it's easy not to run out of fury)
3c. That is retarded because your fury usage spell is also your fury generator. Weapon speed was never mentioned anywhere and does not affect anything. That is why it's excluded in the math section. You can actually generate enough fury to regularly use Sprint. The only way this is relevant is when you have horrendous gear and only depend on fury generation from WC and that's just bad.
3d. Several = 1 ??? The only point of this build is to have WC and making it as useful as possible. You can even use Impunity which buff's your team quite a lot. This leaves a lot of space for DPS increasing skills as MR, Overpower, WoTB and a sixth floating slot.
I'm not a glass cannon, especially not with impunity. Sorry for sounding harsh ;), but misinformation is frustrating.
1. Of course, this is what makes gear with strength and no vit cheap.
2. I wasn't lucky enough to roll a Wizard or DH at launch, so I make a cheap and viable build.
3. 145%, but yes.
3a. This is the most important part and the obligatory one if you have no other gear.
3b. Not really, Mighty Weapon is only used to make Impunity viable with low CHC (With Charge! it's easy not to run out of fury)
3c. That is retarded because your fury usage spell is also your fury generator. Weapon speed was never mentioned anywhere and does not affect anything. That is why it's excluded in the math section. You can actually generate enough fury to regularly use Sprint. The only way this is relevant is when you have horrendous gear and only depend on fury generation from WC and that's just bad.
3d. Several = 1 ??? The only point of this build is to have WC and making it as useful as possible. You can even use Impunity which buff's your team quite a lot. This leaves a lot of space for DPS increasing skills as MR, Overpower, WoTB and a sixth floating slot.
I'm not a glass cannon, especially not with impunity. Sorry for sounding harsh ;), but misinformation is frustrating.
I just altered it a little to break it down to the essentials. I don't see the need for all the fury on crit math, if the only requirement for a spammable WT is a generation of 2 fury/sec(more with fast weapons). You can get that much from WC-Charge or use those various other generators to also fuel BR and WotB without ever going into melee combat.
But what's the result? A ranged character with one single target, non-homing, medium if not low damage skill that has to avoid getting hit like all the others.
I'm not totally opposed to this idea, if only it shows Blizz how broken melee is, but I'd rather spend some time leveling up a toon, who was made for ranged combat. In fact I have, I'm on Diablo with my 1 million budget DH. It's not really fun to get oneshotted by Fallen or even the wind but at least you can do it somehow with dex-nothing gear instead of dex-vit-allres. And this is exactly what you're trying to do with the Barb here, right?
I just altered it a little to break it down to the essentials. I don't see the need for all the fury on crit math, if the only requirement for a spammable WT is a generation of 2 fury/sec(more with fast weapons). You can get that much from WC-Charge or use those various other generators to also fuel BR and WotB without ever going into melee combat.
But what's the result? A ranged character with one single target, non-homing, medium if not low damage skill that has to avoid getting hit like all the others.
I'm not totally opposed to this idea, if only it shows Blizz how broken melee is, but I'd rather spend some time leveling up a toon, who was made for ranged combat. In fact I have, I'm on Diablo with my 1 million budget DH. It's not really fun to get oneshotted by Fallen or even the wind but at least you can do it somehow with dex-nothing gear instead of dex-vit-allres. And this is exactly what you're trying to do with the Barb here, right?
That isn't the point of the build at all, you need to generate fury elsewhere to activate BR etc. This way you don't need any other generators.
Barb has built in armor from strength and 30% less damage taken. I'm not sure why you are trying to compare two classes that have next to nothing in common to eachother. Barb offers some utility that DH's don't, the good ''class cannon'' gear that you keep mentioning that we use (I'm not) is cheaper for barbs, etc.
Anyway, I agree with you that DH is a better class all around, especially for pure DPS.
/e @ FearMeMortals
The only thing I can suggest is really try to be lucky on the AH for weapons with both Crit hit damage and a socket. Your gear is fine as is (for a low budget) but wearing a shield before getting a good amount of DPS isn't a good idea.
I'm not sure why you are trying to compare two classes that have next to nothing in common to eachother. Barb offers some utility that DH's don't, the good ''class cannon'' gear that you keep mentioning that we use (I'm not) is cheaper for barbs, etc.
I'm doing that because I play both. Actually I've only played my DH for a while now. The alternative to rolling her would have been something like this build. I've been at that point with my Barb, where I just wanted to stay in the back and throw my weapons every once in a while. Didn't feel impressive. Now you've come up with an idea to at least spam Weapon Throw instead of running around in circles waiting for fury from that regenerating passive and it's quite nice, but.. it's very, very limited compared to the DH. You may be able to take a hit or two because you've spent more than a million on gear which would only buy you str-nothing gear, but you're also doing much less damage and you don't have the escape utilities from the discipline skills.
So, to sum this idea up, I guess, this was the thought process:
1. We want to avoid melee combat because it's disadvantagous.
2. Instead of rolling a ranged class, we make it work with the Barb.
3. We try to make the 130% weapon damage Weapon Throw spammable.
3a. To achieve this we reduce its cost down to 5 via items.
3b. We use a mighty Weapon with Weaponmaster to get 3 of those 5 fury back, reducing the effective cost to 2.
3c. We use the slowest, heaviest hitting possible weapon (2h) to minimize the fury cost per time. Let's say 1.00 attacks per second, that's 2 fury per second and 120 fury per minute.
3d. We use several non-melee usable cooldown abilities to fuel this fury need. Pretty easy.
Now that we had to give up our survival abilities(mainly passives), we can't go into melee anymore anyway and enter the realm of glass cannons. This means, we could gear for full dps and be a oneshot or spend millions to survive some hits.
Sounds like an auto attacking Demon Hunter with zero discipline to me(I have both at 60).
Sorry for being harsh
3. 145%, but yes.
Would you mind explaining this little tidbit, isn't it 130? Or am I missing something really tiny detail
This build looks amazing..but maybe I'm just an idiot, because I run out of fury so quick that I end up running from everyone with no ability to cause damage. Also, people keep mentioning WT as a fury generator, yet it costs 10 fury without any fury reduction gear. What am I missing here?
Edit: Could it simply be a case of not enough crit gear yet? My crit is only 32% with BR (yes, very low, but I figured I could still maintain some sort of fury pool, but I haven't even come close)
This build looks amazing..but maybe I'm just an idiot, because I run out of fury so quick that I end up running from everyone with no ability to cause damage. Also, people keep mentioning WT as a fury generator, yet it costs 10 fury without any fury reduction gear. What am I missing here?
For it to be a fury generation you need another IFG (Initial fury generator, like War Cry). That way, you can start pumping out WT's and get your fury up.
What about replacing WotB/Overpower with Threatening Shout with Intimidate rune (slow enemies' movement by 30%)? A damage/movement speed debuff seems like a helpful (and potentially life-saving) thing for a ranged barbarian constantly trying to be outside of melee range. Fast elite/champion packs would still be able to catch up to the current build, and instead of USING 20 fury per use with Sprint, Threatening Shout GENERATES 15 fury and is usable every 15 seconds (while having a cooldown of 15 seconds, so able to be kept up at all times).
No Return : This is the only reason why I thought of this build. Makes AS really strong against bosses and gives you +15% damage because it acts like Into the Fray for BR, so you can use Marauder’s Rage.
did you mean No escape? also i didn't understand how ti give 15% damage because the passive gives 10% to AS and WT.
Thanks for the guide , i happened to try a build like before but i didnt have the enough items , i really want to try it again with proper items , but i will have to farm for gold to buy my items (I already have defensive build gear 90k hp , 900+all resist) but i still want to try this for boredom.
Edit: The only bad skill i had to use when i tried a crit range build ages ago was overpower , maybe because if happen and i use it melee range many mobs can 1 shot me xD , it will always be better to change it with another skill that you can use more often like sprint or ground stomp (ground stomp preferable , it wont cost fury , it will give you free fury and help you raise the gap between you and any enemy that will tele to you or maybe vortex or w/e).
Edit 2: Also i have question , why do you bother with IAS items ? i know they increase the shown dps but they won't raise the damage you do per WT won't it? I mean the dps in the stats window tell you the damage you can do per seconds , so if you have 2 atk speed and each auto attack does 15k then your dps will be 30k , but if happen and you did 1 hit and stopped then you only did 15k in that second , and when it goes to skills like AS you will only do your weapons damage+crit if happened and the attack speed will only effects animation , I don't know about WT will the 2 atk speed let you spam 2 WT in 1 second?.
Edit 3: I made attack speed test myself , i can see the only skill in that build that really has real effect from attack speed is Weapon Throw , i can see now why attack speed is a good stat for this build , basically because 2 attack speed means you can throw 2 axes in 1 second , the thing is you will burn fury fast , this why you need to manage your fury , The only sad thing is blizzard wants to nerf the attack speed , if our 2 attack speed nerfed to less than 2 then it will be bad ( i know with more items you can near 3) but what is the point of that if blizzard nerfed it. All what we can do is waiting..
Also as a comment about range barb , the only thing that make other ranges better than us is , they have higher damage skills + they have better survivelity than us being range (For barb to survive you need tons of health and resist , being range means you will lose tons of health and resist , when for wizards they have force armor , and demon hunters have smoke screen ,, Blizzard should buff barb.
Also a last point about your Con for range barb (revenge-less) , there is a big chance blizzard will nerf revenge in patch 1.1.0 , we may have to kite lol.
What about replacing WotB/Overpower with Threatening Shout with Intimidate rune (slow enemies' movement by 30%)? A damage/movement speed debuff seems like a helpful (and potentially life-saving) thing for a ranged barbarian constantly trying to be outside of melee range. Fast elite/champion packs would still be able to catch up to the current build, and instead of USING 20 fury per use with Sprint, Threatening Shout GENERATES 15 fury and is usable every 15 seconds (while having a cooldown of 15 seconds, so able to be kept up at all times).
TS has too short of range to hit enough mobs with the slow plus you need sprint for some things that TS can't help with like avoiding blood pools on Az
Do you use Red gems on gear and Green on weapon(s), or something else?
Do you forgo IAS and LoH stats?
I use templar but any follower can work
Dual Wield is ideal for DPS (most possible critical hit damage increased) but you can also go 1h/shield or 2h
IAS is good for DPS but LoH isn't necessary (and not very good)
Green on weapon
Do you use Red gems on gear and Green on weapon(s), or something else?
Do you forgo IAS and LoH stats?
I use templar but any follower can work
Dual Wield is ideal for DPS (most possible critical hit damage increased) but you can also go 1h/shield or 2h
IAS is good for DPS but LoH isn't necessary (and not very good)
Green on weapon
a) Do abilities that are % weapon damage based take the average of your two weapons or are they mainhand only If you have an Axe in your offhand and a Sword in your mainhand do you get +15% damage and +10% crit?
a) Do abilities that are % weapon damage based take the average of your two weapons or are they mainhand only If you have an Axe in your offhand and a Sword in your mainhand do you get +15% damage and +10% crit?
Weapons Master only counts your Main Hand weapon type.
I cannot find a 5 belt at an afordable price, would 3 or 4 suffice or is it vital for it to be 5, thanks for the guide seems interesting cant wait to try it out
I myself kaiser am using a 3 reduction belt, and it works fine. I plan to save up and buy a 5 asap, but with a mighty weapon this isn't as much of an issue. Finally at least got a 8XX dps might weapon, and seems to help out alot. Right now I really need to boost up my crit rate, think my base is like 20%. Gotta hawk eye andy's helm, cause the good deals tend to go very fast.
I actually had to lower my hp a bit to increase crit, and I was amazed that i'm still not dying in 1 hit in act 2 with only 22k hp and like 600 res all. Going to try to at least get my hp to about an even 30k. What is a good solid number for str to have? Obviously the more the better, but would is suggested 1k? or more?
Oh and run like the wind is godlike lol. I can't believe how good of a kiting skill this is!
a) Do abilities that are % weapon damage based take the average of your two weapons or are they mainhand only If you have an Axe in your offhand and a Sword in your mainhand do you get +15% damage and +10% crit?
Weapons Master only counts your Main Hand weapon type.
Incorrect. Weapons Master applies to the weapon you make an attack with, nothing else. I.E. you have 2 weapons in your hands and you attack with each alternatively, the first one is an axe and the second is a sword, attacking with an axe gives you +10% crit, attacking with the sword gives you +10% dmg, it's that simple.
The calculation that is shown in your character sheet will only display the MH bonus, of course, unless you can make it think that you're attacking with the OH instead.
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"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Wow I just got my arse handed to me on the catapults quest in act 3. I got to the very last one..and dam talk about crazy. That lovely flying demon elite came down, with a large pack. These guys had reflect dmg, molten, mortar, very fast movement..and some other affixes I don't remember. I tried to kite them with run like the wind, but apparently I still wasn't fast enough lol. I finally took 3 of the minions away to separate them, and I went back to the main elite. I swear most elites have what 5 minions? This guy either had 8-10 or the 3 I moved a mile away teleported back to him. Sucks because it took me an hour just to get to the 3rd catapult.
As I recall this guy I think is a usual spawn that appears on this quest..though I maybe mistaken. Any ideas for how to deal with this guy? If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, I'll try to find his name.
One last note I found really odd. I was using rage flip, and the mob ended up stuck off screen inside of a rock lol. Anyone else seen this happen?
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1. We want to avoid melee combat because it's disadvantagous.
2. Instead of rolling a ranged class, we make it work with the Barb.
3. We try to make the 130% weapon damage Weapon Throw spammable.
3a. To achieve this we reduce its cost down to 5 via items.
3b. We use a mighty Weapon with Weaponmaster to get 3 of those 5 fury back, reducing the effective cost to 2.
3c. We use the slowest, heaviest hitting possible weapon (2h) to minimize the fury cost per time. Let's say 1.00 attacks per second, that's 2 fury per second and 120 fury per minute.
3d. We use several non-melee usable cooldown abilities to fuel this fury need. Pretty easy.
Now that we had to give up our survival abilities(mainly passives), we can't go into melee anymore anyway and enter the realm of glass cannons. This means, we could gear for full dps and be a oneshot or spend millions to survive some hits.
Sounds like an auto attacking Demon Hunter with zero discipline to me(I have both at 60).
Sorry for being harsh
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
If you're gonna bash at least know your facts.
1. Of course, this is what makes gear with strength and no vit cheap.
2. I wasn't lucky enough to roll a Wizard or DH at launch, so I make a cheap and viable build.
3. 145%, but yes.
3a. This is the most important part and the obligatory one if you have no other gear.
3b. Not really, Mighty Weapon is only used to make Impunity viable with low CHC (With Charge! it's easy not to run out of fury)
3c. That is retarded because your fury usage spell is also your fury generator. Weapon speed was never mentioned anywhere and does not affect anything. That is why it's excluded in the math section. You can actually generate enough fury to regularly use Sprint. The only way this is relevant is when you have horrendous gear and only depend on fury generation from WC and that's just bad.
3d. Several = 1 ??? The only point of this build is to have WC and making it as useful as possible. You can even use Impunity which buff's your team quite a lot. This leaves a lot of space for DPS increasing skills as MR, Overpower, WoTB and a sixth floating slot.
I'm not a glass cannon, especially not with impunity. Sorry for sounding harsh ;), but misinformation is frustrating.
I just altered it a little to break it down to the essentials. I don't see the need for all the fury on crit math, if the only requirement for a spammable WT is a generation of 2 fury/sec(more with fast weapons). You can get that much from WC-Charge or use those various other generators to also fuel BR and WotB without ever going into melee combat.
But what's the result? A ranged character with one single target, non-homing, medium if not low damage skill that has to avoid getting hit like all the others.
I'm not totally opposed to this idea, if only it shows Blizz how broken melee is, but I'd rather spend some time leveling up a toon, who was made for ranged combat. In fact I have, I'm on Diablo with my 1 million budget DH. It's not really fun to get oneshotted by Fallen or even the wind but at least you can do it somehow with dex-nothing gear instead of dex-vit-allres. And this is exactly what you're trying to do with the Barb here, right?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
That isn't the point of the build at all, you need to generate fury elsewhere to activate BR etc. This way you don't need any other generators.
Barb has built in armor from strength and 30% less damage taken. I'm not sure why you are trying to compare two classes that have next to nothing in common to eachother. Barb offers some utility that DH's don't, the good ''class cannon'' gear that you keep mentioning that we use (I'm not) is cheaper for barbs, etc.
Anyway, I agree with you that DH is a better class all around, especially for pure DPS.
/e @ FearMeMortals
The only thing I can suggest is really try to be lucky on the AH for weapons with both Crit hit damage and a socket. Your gear is fine as is (for a low budget) but wearing a shield before getting a good amount of DPS isn't a good idea.
I'm doing that because I play both. Actually I've only played my DH for a while now. The alternative to rolling her would have been something like this build. I've been at that point with my Barb, where I just wanted to stay in the back and throw my weapons every once in a while. Didn't feel impressive. Now you've come up with an idea to at least spam Weapon Throw instead of running around in circles waiting for fury from that regenerating passive and it's quite nice, but.. it's very, very limited compared to the DH. You may be able to take a hit or two because you've spent more than a million on gear which would only buy you str-nothing gear, but you're also doing much less damage and you don't have the escape utilities from the discipline skills.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Would you mind explaining this little tidbit, isn't it 130? Or am I missing something really tiny detail
Edit: Could it simply be a case of not enough crit gear yet? My crit is only 32% with BR (yes, very low, but I figured I could still maintain some sort of fury pool, but I haven't even come close)
For it to be a fury generation you need another IFG (Initial fury generator, like War Cry). That way, you can start pumping out WT's and get your fury up.
did you mean No escape? also i didn't understand how ti give 15% damage because the passive gives 10% to AS and WT.
Thanks for the guide , i happened to try a build like before but i didnt have the enough items , i really want to try it again with proper items , but i will have to farm for gold to buy my items (I already have defensive build gear 90k hp , 900+all resist) but i still want to try this for boredom.
Edit: The only bad skill i had to use when i tried a crit range build ages ago was overpower , maybe because if happen and i use it melee range many mobs can 1 shot me xD , it will always be better to change it with another skill that you can use more often like sprint or ground stomp (ground stomp preferable , it wont cost fury , it will give you free fury and help you raise the gap between you and any enemy that will tele to you or maybe vortex or w/e).
Edit 2: Also i have question , why do you bother with IAS items ? i know they increase the shown dps but they won't raise the damage you do per WT won't it? I mean the dps in the stats window tell you the damage you can do per seconds , so if you have 2 atk speed and each auto attack does 15k then your dps will be 30k , but if happen and you did 1 hit and stopped then you only did 15k in that second , and when it goes to skills like AS you will only do your weapons damage+crit if happened and the attack speed will only effects animation , I don't know about WT will the 2 atk speed let you spam 2 WT in 1 second?.
Edit 3: I made attack speed test myself , i can see the only skill in that build that really has real effect from attack speed is Weapon Throw , i can see now why attack speed is a good stat for this build , basically because 2 attack speed means you can throw 2 axes in 1 second , the thing is you will burn fury fast , this why you need to manage your fury , The only sad thing is blizzard wants to nerf the attack speed , if our 2 attack speed nerfed to less than 2 then it will be bad ( i know with more items you can near 3) but what is the point of that if blizzard nerfed it. All what we can do is waiting..
Also as a comment about range barb , the only thing that make other ranges better than us is , they have higher damage skills + they have better survivelity than us being range (For barb to survive you need tons of health and resist , being range means you will lose tons of health and resist , when for wizards they have force armor , and demon hunters have smoke screen ,, Blizzard should buff barb.
Also a last point about your Con for range barb (revenge-less) , there is a big chance blizzard will nerf revenge in patch 1.1.0 , we may have to kite lol.
TS has too short of range to hit enough mobs with the slow plus you need sprint for some things that TS can't help with like avoiding blood pools on Az
What follower do you use? Scoundrel?
DW, Shield, or 2H?
Do you use Red gems on gear and Green on weapon(s), or something else?
Do you forgo IAS and LoH stats?
I use templar but any follower can work
Dual Wield is ideal for DPS (most possible critical hit damage increased) but you can also go 1h/shield or 2h
IAS is good for DPS but LoH isn't necessary (and not very good)
Green on weapon
Thanks, I'll try this out sometime.
a) Do abilities that are % weapon damage based take the average of your two weapons or are they mainhand only
Weapons Master only counts your Main Hand weapon type.
I myself kaiser am using a 3 reduction belt, and it works fine. I plan to save up and buy a 5 asap, but with a mighty weapon this isn't as much of an issue. Finally at least got a 8XX dps might weapon, and seems to help out alot. Right now I really need to boost up my crit rate, think my base is like 20%. Gotta hawk eye andy's helm, cause the good deals tend to go very fast.
I actually had to lower my hp a bit to increase crit, and I was amazed that i'm still not dying in 1 hit in act 2 with only 22k hp and like 600 res all. Going to try to at least get my hp to about an even 30k. What is a good solid number for str to have? Obviously the more the better, but would is suggested 1k? or more?
Oh and run like the wind is godlike lol. I can't believe how good of a kiting skill this is!
Incorrect. Weapons Master applies to the weapon you make an attack with, nothing else. I.E. you have 2 weapons in your hands and you attack with each alternatively, the first one is an axe and the second is a sword, attacking with an axe gives you +10% crit, attacking with the sword gives you +10% dmg, it's that simple.
The calculation that is shown in your character sheet will only display the MH bonus, of course, unless you can make it think that you're attacking with the OH instead.
Wow I just got my arse handed to me on the catapults quest in act 3. I got to the very last one..and dam talk about crazy. That lovely flying demon elite came down, with a large pack. These guys had reflect dmg, molten, mortar, very fast movement..and some other affixes I don't remember. I tried to kite them with run like the wind, but apparently I still wasn't fast enough lol. I finally took 3 of the minions away to separate them, and I went back to the main elite. I swear most elites have what 5 minions? This guy either had 8-10 or the 3 I moved a mile away teleported back to him. Sucks because it took me an hour just to get to the 3rd catapult.
As I recall this guy I think is a usual spawn that appears on this quest..though I maybe mistaken. Any ideas for how to deal with this guy? If you guys don't know what I'm talking about, I'll try to find his name.
One last note I found really odd. I was using rage flip, and the mob ended up stuck off screen inside of a rock lol. Anyone else seen this happen?