With it, the game is more about skills, less about knowledge.
Thats it.
Now you disagree with it or you agree. Either way, live with it or pass your turn and don't buy it.
If you think that knowing exactly how many strength you need for equip X makes you pro, you are a retard. Being able to kill enemies and use your skills effectively, being able to survive, make you pro.
Well yea, you need knowledge, I didn't say the game does not require knowledge, I said it's less about it. I was talking about knowledge of equipments, etc.
The things that you dont know when you just started playing, the skills can be learned in seconds but you need to check databases websites for hours to plan your equips and all.
Now it's foolish to say you won't have to plan in Diablo 3. You will be ABLE to do it too, but a player that didn't know how many strength required that or that item won't be punished because he just started.
Add that to the skill respecting and rune system and you have a game where you can change your build on a 10 cent. I think this is awesome BUT since the respecing won't be something easy, it still makes you reroll your character sometime. This is awesome too.
If you want to be original, you can still equip items giving strength to your wizard for example... This is still possible.
are we certain of the item requirements yet?
you describe pretty much Diablo 2 right now with the items and databases and all. The knowledge you'll need to have will be which stats affect how the abilities of your character. Thats the important thing, not if/how much strength/dexterity it requires. Maybe just the level as it is in WoW. It would be easier to understand which items suit better which classes too. Its certainly not that fun to have everyone being after the same items. I know %dmg reduction is cool, but each class should have their own game experience, not the same with different abilities.
and dont get me wrong, i never said you wont have to plan for Diablo 3. But since its going to be the items that add to the stats, you wont have to put all of a certain stat to use something that wasnt even ment to be for your class (no matter how bad ass it might be). I hope for better rares in Diablo 3 and for great Uniques/Sets to keep me interested (as i traditionally prefer to have sets of gear and well equipped characters). I'd rather make more characters of the same class too than respec to be honest. No matter if its easy or hard. I'd prefer to think of respeccing as a chance to correct a mistake, rather than a way to change your play style completely.
And as funny as i found some combos (enchanter sorc with Hellslayer for example) i still dont think so much freedom would do any good. Because that way the character would end up being useless anyway since it wasnt made to be like that. How many seconds do you think a melee sorc would last in a Hell game with hordes of monsters? Not many and that wouldnt be fun in the end. And as long as there isnt a stat refund too you cant "save" your character.
The reason there are many classes around is to offer a variety of gaming experiences for everyone. Thats why each class feels completely different, even from the little experience we got so far.
Wow.... this really just became WoW! Come on, let us have a little bit of creativity with it... please! Horrible Decision by Blizzards part. Diablo fans arent WoW fans at all. Let us make our own builds. Tweak the system a bit, thats what Diablo is all about
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"Waiter, waiter, could you come here. I think you got some WoW in my Diablo. Could you take it back to Blizzard and fix it for me please."
Daemaro also brings up an interesting point about glass cannon and what not. If you had control over dexterity, strength and vitality - you essentially could make the game easier for yourself by either having more health , more hit chance or more damage.
This way you have a fixed health for hell and all that crap- so basically it boils down to worrying about your fight strategy + skill/talent choice to combat through higher difficulty levels!
Effectively choosing stats gave you too much control over your character, while now- taking away that control and putting more focus on skills, gameplay tactics and talents, you have more interesting control aspects on your plate!
Food for thought!
Yeah and I guess we get to modify our items with enchantments/gems etc so that you can go for high hp or high damage or such.
good info, Ferret, thanks.
It still doesnt change my opinion, though, casters should be wearing caster items and other archetypes, theirs. Maybe the hybrids that will appear in any possible expansions will have stats added to suit this mix.
I really dont see how can any person who has just a bit more brain than a piece of potato share blizzard's idea(s), while it's clearer than crystal that almost every change that blizzard came up with is just to support the Casuals??? This basicly means that they dull every aspect of the game just to make the game more attractive for the casuals. But let's she whom does the word casual include: Theyre not you, who actually read these forums and also played diablo before. They are the people who go to the markets and randomly take a game from the shelf, one which catches their fancy because of something: the box art, the name, or anything. Lets say that these people buy the game - install on their computer - start playing and soon as they have spent some time playing it theyre like: ,,what fuck?? agility? strenght? vitality? what in the nine hells are these shit?" so they start putting the stats points everywhere and what happens? The game turns out to be unplayable because the person doesnt even know what to do. Or simply just get frustrated because he cant focus on the game itself.. Effect: the person will hate the game, will never play it again, flushes it in the toilet or so. And what does blizz say? ,,We want to grant you continous gameplay". Cant you see? Its the same shit with everything blizz does: the health orbs, the inventory, the looks, respeccing. Make everything so that it doesnt prevent you from the continous action. And doing so, they rape every classic aspect of the game.
So why would you support auto stats? Ofcourse they could fix d2 stat unbalancedness, but then they would make it even more complicated. Face it and understand- It makes nothing better for you, just for the casuals.
Actually, I am a "casual".
I simply work and study, so I don't have a lot of time to play. That makes it impossible to play games like WoW, for example. And I have to say that I hate the way WoW almost makes you a professional in the game by separating more time than you would to have a part-time job just to play.
I'm very happy that Blizzard is also focusing on the ocasional player, so I can play in my free time and still don't suck hard for it.
I don't see what the big deal is, its not like they are going to make it so a Barbarian's stats automatically increase spellcasting based stats or something like that, it'll increase the stats that you would want to increase anyway.
What if suddenly a law was passed than said you no longer have a choice between Soft Drinks. Congress has decided than Coca-Cola was better, and from now on it is the only Soft Drink that will be produced and sold.
I bet that would piss you off huh? What if you don't like Coca-Cola? I feel the same way when it comes to this game. Players should always be allowed to choose the path of their characters. That is what makes it a Role Playing Game. They are taking the "Role" out of it.
What if suddenly a law was passed than said you no longer have a choice between Soft Drinks. Congress has decided than Coca-Cola was better, and from now on it is the only Soft Drink that will be produced and sold.
I bet that would piss you off huh? What if you don't like Coca-Cola? I feel the same way when it comes to this game. Players should always be allowed to choose the path of their characters. That is what makes it a Role Playing Game. They are taking the "Role" out of it.
Choice, choice, choice. PERIOD!
First off...get a grip lol. This is a game...not real life. If we were that concerned about choice..we'd be turning Diablo into the Sims for crying out loud.
Secondly... you're killing the role of a 'wizard' if you're going to make him like a barbarian with tonnes of health and strength. It's not role playing if you're raping the role with your 'choice'.
Finally... we're being given the choice to develop our characters uniquely enough along a general path- wizards will be wizards and barbarians will be barbarians...
Good posts from Feret, I agree with the points you made there. However, I wish they had gone the route of improving on the stat system, rather than just auto-assigning it for you. You know, like make Str means more, or Dex or whatever. Make it a little more involved where you can think about how distributing the stats will affect you now or in the future. Like replace 'Energy' with 'Magic' or something and each point in it not only increasing mana (based on class) but also increases mana regeneration rate, magic based skill damage and resistance to magic based damage.
I dunno... Seems like they are taking some of the RPG out of ARPG. I don't want the Diablo dumbed down, per se. They could have added an 'autolevel' button too for the action peoples, and the stat stuff and number crunching could still be there for the people that like that sort of thing. I agree there is very little variety in D2 stat distribution as it is, but I disagree with the path they have taken until I can see further results or detail. Part of the fun for me was rebuilding characters to see if they could be better than the last one. (FWIW I only play hardcore)
I am a bit confused about this. Not about Blizzard decision, but about the community's general opinion over the net, especialy on bnet forums.
The main opinion I keep seeing every 2 posts is : This stats auto-assignment is dumb because it destroys the customization. At the first thought, I agreed, but after remembering my Diablo 2 experience. I changed my mind and told me this : What customization!?
Try to remember your first Character you've made in Diablo 2. Back when you didn't know the game mechanics, what items was gonna help your hero to kick some asses, what spells were going to be useful at level 90 and which one would be totaly useless. I can bet that EVERYONE here had is first character badly built than after like 30 levels, realised that you should have done your character a certain way. After a few tries, you finaly realised that there was a perfect way to build a character.
Put a minimum of strength and dext since items bonuses would compensate, max out Vitality and leave Energy untouched. This brings us back to the question: What customization?! Is maxing Vitality really a customization?! I mean, after 5 months, EVERYONE realised it, and All characters will have the same Stats. So What's the big deal about it? Did you really think you were the only one who had this overpowered build? Everyone who played this game long enough realised how it really worked. In D3, if they put the same stats mechanic, It will take only few months for the entire planet to know 1 perfect build.
So, if 2 millions of people, including you and me, put the same number of points in each stats because we allllll know that this is the best build, is this still customization? I think it's not. So instead of puting customizable stats live for 5 months, just trhow this shit away and find another way to customize a character. Make every spells worth the be maxed out, make every item stats useful in some way. Make every class good in pvp and pve. Thats what Blizzard is trying to do.
I suppose it makes sense in a way. Attribute assignment was very hard to make balanced, or complex, or useful. They got rid of it to rigidly limit certain classes to certain types of equipment, and, possibly, even skills. In my opinion, this would be better than the Diablo II system, but worse than actually upgrading the attribute system into something more complex. I guess they decided that they'd rather sacrifice the stat system than make an unbalanced game again.
What if suddenly a law was passed than said you no longer have a choice between Soft Drinks. Congress has decided than Coca-Cola was better, and from now on it is the only Soft Drink that will be produced and sold.
I bet that would piss you off huh? What if you don't like Coca-Cola? I feel the same way when it comes to this game. Players should always be allowed to choose the path of their characters. That is what makes it a Role Playing Game. They are taking the "Role" out of it.
Choice, choice, choice. PERIOD!
But it's not really a question of how you want to build the character. Just because you have the option to do something, doesn't make it a good idea. In Diablo 2, you can unequip everything and run out and get yourself killed on purpose. but is that a good idea? Not at all. you have the potential to do it, but it's just not a good idea.
The thing is, we're going to have the stats we were going to put in anyway. The soda example doesn't really apply, because some things simply don't work, like putting all your points into your Dex on a Sorc...that would be like saying "i only drink Soda that has been shaken up and sprayed into a broken glass, then left outside for five weeks." You could do it, but why? Game only have the options they give you anyway, so does that mean that every game that doesn't let you put in stat points into the main character is limiting? No, games only put in customization systems that work well with the games' other systems.
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Stay.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
Well, I think the point of it is - a Wizard should be a Wizard.
In Diablo II it would've been a Wizard nuking the shit out of you, and tanking damage like a Barb at the same time.
If anything, this would help keep focus on the story.
What Wizard has the vigor of a Barbarian?
That's one of the things that made Diablo II not set itself apart from other games.
It really makes you play your character like it should be played.
Furthermore, every single person, if they haven't said they are for, have not said they are not for realism.
I don't know about you guys and gals, but I didn't get to pump any stats into the Huge Muscles category for my birthday.
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"Dime for the Body - Penny for the Thought - Bitches Wanna Think They Got Game But They Too Broke to Bought - I Got the Body, And the Plan Taught - All Skills Combined, I Am ~ The Boss" - USNSEALs
I Think people should think about other games like God Of War...a mentioned reference for when looking at Diablo III. God of War was an insane game and didn't over complicate shit at all- easy to play, fun to play- and most of all epic.
I think that's the vibe Blizzard is going for. I Didn't give a shit about Kratos' stats...I gave a shit about the different things i could to do to beat the hell out of the bosses/monsters i found. That was a bit limited in God of War - imagine the variety in Diablo III (from the skills systems).
You can still have fun playing an RPG game where you don't have to customize your stats...
God of War had close to Zero customization and one character...
Diablo III is on a larger scale in comparison- I'm happy to play it if it can deliver a great experience with the mentioned classes an systems announced- and not giving 2 shits about something as MINOR as stats.
Now if blizzard said you couldn't choose your own skills... then THAT would be messed up...not all the stupid foaming mouths about auto stats.
Whoever says comparing should not be done is irrational. Comparing is one of the prime motivators for change and improvement. It pushes people to look and strive for originality. It's everywhere in history, sports(player to player), government (policies), everyday life (fashion). It's one of those things that make society and people evolve. So why the hell shouldn't people compare D3 to other games when in their own creation and development, they themselves have been compared to their predecessors and thus were interesting and original.
Every great game pushes the standards higher and make gaming as a whole "better". So it is only logical that Diablo 3 be compared to other great games in the genres of "Action, RPG, Horror, etc." And not just to itself. I don't believe that Blizzzard in making this game are only looking to cater to a Diablo1,2 Fanbase but also to attract new players from various other gaming spectrums.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
I Think people should think about other games like God Of War...a mentioned reference for when looking at Diablo III. God of War was an insane game and didn't over complicate shit at all- easy to play, fun to play- and most of all epic.
I think that's the vibe Blizzard is going for. I Didn't give a shit about Kratos' stats...I gave a shit about the different things i could to do to beat the hell out of the bosses/monsters i found. That was a bit limited in God of War - imagine the variety in Diablo III (from the skills systems).
You can still have fun playing an RPG game where you don't have to customize your stats...
God of War had close to Zero customization and one character...
Diablo III is on a larger scale in comparison- I'm happy to play it if it can deliver a great experience with the mentioned classes an systems announced- and not giving 2 shits about something as MINOR as stats.
Now if blizzard said you couldn't choose your own skills... then THAT would be messed up...not all the stupid foaming mouths about auto stats.
No one will remember "God of War" in ten years. People are still playing Diablo after ten years. Is that the kind of success that Blizzard is pursueing? Dumbing down the game will make it easier for first timers to play it but it will also kill the replay value of the game and cut down on the hard core players that will devote time to it for years to come.
Oh wait..........non-subscription game........Blizzard sells a lot of "boxes" initially.........players get bored fast........players have to buy another game (Blizzards?) to feed their gaming needs.............
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!
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Thats it.
Now you disagree with it or you agree. Either way, live with it or pass your turn and don't buy it.
If you think that knowing exactly how many strength you need for equip X makes you pro, you are a retard. Being able to kill enemies and use your skills effectively, being able to survive, make you pro.
also you have to be skilled to do good in a game, not just have knowledge of each ability. Thats what made a difference between the best and the rest.
Now you disagree with it or you agree. Either way, live with it or pass your turn and don't buy it.
The things that you dont know when you just started playing, the skills can be learned in seconds but you need to check databases websites for hours to plan your equips and all.
Now it's foolish to say you won't have to plan in Diablo 3. You will be ABLE to do it too, but a player that didn't know how many strength required that or that item won't be punished because he just started.
Add that to the skill respecting and rune system and you have a game where you can change your build on a 10 cent. I think this is awesome BUT since the respecing won't be something easy, it still makes you reroll your character sometime. This is awesome too.
If you want to be original, you can still equip items giving strength to your wizard for example... This is still possible.
you describe pretty much Diablo 2 right now with the items and databases and all. The knowledge you'll need to have will be which stats affect how the abilities of your character. Thats the important thing, not if/how much strength/dexterity it requires. Maybe just the level as it is in WoW. It would be easier to understand which items suit better which classes too. Its certainly not that fun to have everyone being after the same items. I know %dmg reduction is cool, but each class should have their own game experience, not the same with different abilities.
and dont get me wrong, i never said you wont have to plan for Diablo 3. But since its going to be the items that add to the stats, you wont have to put all of a certain stat to use something that wasnt even ment to be for your class (no matter how bad ass it might be). I hope for better rares in Diablo 3 and for great Uniques/Sets to keep me interested (as i traditionally prefer to have sets of gear and well equipped characters). I'd rather make more characters of the same class too than respec to be honest. No matter if its easy or hard. I'd prefer to think of respeccing as a chance to correct a mistake, rather than a way to change your play style completely.
And as funny as i found some combos (enchanter sorc with Hellslayer for example) i still dont think so much freedom would do any good. Because that way the character would end up being useless anyway since it wasnt made to be like that. How many seconds do you think a melee sorc would last in a Hell game with hordes of monsters? Not many and that wouldnt be fun in the end. And as long as there isnt a stat refund too you cant "save" your character.
The reason there are many classes around is to offer a variety of gaming experiences for everyone. Thats why each class feels completely different, even from the little experience we got so far.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It still doesnt change my opinion, though, casters should be wearing caster items and other archetypes, theirs. Maybe the hybrids that will appear in any possible expansions will have stats added to suit this mix.
Actually, I am a "casual".
I simply work and study, so I don't have a lot of time to play. That makes it impossible to play games like WoW, for example. And I have to say that I hate the way WoW almost makes you a professional in the game by separating more time than you would to have a part-time job just to play.
I'm very happy that Blizzard is also focusing on the ocasional player, so I can play in my free time and still don't suck hard for it.
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What if suddenly a law was passed than said you no longer have a choice between Soft Drinks. Congress has decided than Coca-Cola was better, and from now on it is the only Soft Drink that will be produced and sold.
I bet that would piss you off huh? What if you don't like Coca-Cola? I feel the same way when it comes to this game. Players should always be allowed to choose the path of their characters. That is what makes it a Role Playing Game. They are taking the "Role" out of it.
Choice, choice, choice. PERIOD!
First off...get a grip lol. This is a game...not real life. If we were that concerned about choice..we'd be turning Diablo into the Sims for crying out loud.
Secondly... you're killing the role of a 'wizard' if you're going to make him like a barbarian with tonnes of health and strength. It's not role playing if you're raping the role with your 'choice'.
Finally... we're being given the choice to develop our characters uniquely enough along a general path- wizards will be wizards and barbarians will be barbarians...
I dunno... Seems like they are taking some of the RPG out of ARPG. I don't want the Diablo dumbed down, per se. They could have added an 'autolevel' button too for the action peoples, and the stat stuff and number crunching could still be there for the people that like that sort of thing. I agree there is very little variety in D2 stat distribution as it is, but I disagree with the path they have taken until I can see further results or detail. Part of the fun for me was rebuilding characters to see if they could be better than the last one. (FWIW I only play hardcore)
The main opinion I keep seeing every 2 posts is : This stats auto-assignment is dumb because it destroys the customization. At the first thought, I agreed, but after remembering my Diablo 2 experience. I changed my mind and told me this : What customization!?
Try to remember your first Character you've made in Diablo 2. Back when you didn't know the game mechanics, what items was gonna help your hero to kick some asses, what spells were going to be useful at level 90 and which one would be totaly useless. I can bet that EVERYONE here had is first character badly built than after like 30 levels, realised that you should have done your character a certain way. After a few tries, you finaly realised that there was a perfect way to build a character.
Put a minimum of strength and dext since items bonuses would compensate, max out Vitality and leave Energy untouched. This brings us back to the question: What customization?! Is maxing Vitality really a customization?! I mean, after 5 months, EVERYONE realised it, and All characters will have the same Stats. So What's the big deal about it? Did you really think you were the only one who had this overpowered build? Everyone who played this game long enough realised how it really worked. In D3, if they put the same stats mechanic, It will take only few months for the entire planet to know 1 perfect build.
So, if 2 millions of people, including you and me, put the same number of points in each stats because we allllll know that this is the best build, is this still customization? I think it's not. So instead of puting customizable stats live for 5 months, just trhow this shit away and find another way to customize a character. Make every spells worth the be maxed out, make every item stats useful in some way. Make every class good in pvp and pve. Thats what Blizzard is trying to do.
But it's not really a question of how you want to build the character. Just because you have the option to do something, doesn't make it a good idea. In Diablo 2, you can unequip everything and run out and get yourself killed on purpose. but is that a good idea? Not at all. you have the potential to do it, but it's just not a good idea.
The thing is, we're going to have the stats we were going to put in anyway. The soda example doesn't really apply, because some things simply don't work, like putting all your points into your Dex on a Sorc...that would be like saying "i only drink Soda that has been shaken up and sprayed into a broken glass, then left outside for five weeks." You could do it, but why? Game only have the options they give you anyway, so does that mean that every game that doesn't let you put in stat points into the main character is limiting? No, games only put in customization systems that work well with the games' other systems.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
In Diablo II it would've been a Wizard nuking the shit out of you, and tanking damage like a Barb at the same time.
If anything, this would help keep focus on the story.
What Wizard has the vigor of a Barbarian?
That's one of the things that made Diablo II not set itself apart from other games.
It really makes you play your character like it should be played.
Furthermore, every single person, if they haven't said they are for, have not said they are not for realism.
I don't know about you guys and gals, but I didn't get to pump any stats into the Huge Muscles category for my birthday.
I think that's the vibe Blizzard is going for. I Didn't give a shit about Kratos' stats...I gave a shit about the different things i could to do to beat the hell out of the bosses/monsters i found. That was a bit limited in God of War - imagine the variety in Diablo III (from the skills systems).
You can still have fun playing an RPG game where you don't have to customize your stats...
God of War had close to Zero customization and one character...
Diablo III is on a larger scale in comparison- I'm happy to play it if it can deliver a great experience with the mentioned classes an systems announced- and not giving 2 shits about something as MINOR as stats.
Now if blizzard said you couldn't choose your own skills... then THAT would be messed up...not all the stupid foaming mouths about auto stats.
Every great game pushes the standards higher and make gaming as a whole "better". So it is only logical that Diablo 3 be compared to other great games in the genres of "Action, RPG, Horror, etc." And not just to itself. I don't believe that Blizzzard in making this game are only looking to cater to a Diablo1,2 Fanbase but also to attract new players from various other gaming spectrums.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
No one will remember "God of War" in ten years. People are still playing Diablo after ten years. Is that the kind of success that Blizzard is pursueing? Dumbing down the game will make it easier for first timers to play it but it will also kill the replay value of the game and cut down on the hard core players that will devote time to it for years to come.
Oh wait..........non-subscription game........Blizzard sells a lot of "boxes" initially.........players get bored fast........players have to buy another game (Blizzards?) to feed their gaming needs.............
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!