I made a spreadsheet comparing similar if not equal skills in between classes to highlight the differences and imbalance. I would just like to ask Blizzard if they could just balance the skills, change the numbers in the code so things like Cloud of Bats and Sleet Storm aren't so different in damage.
1) Like Drol said... different mechanics. Can you spam a spell? What's the cooldown/global cooldown? How is it affected by IAS? Do they stack? Any procs? What are the rune's effects? Resource costs?
2) You picked a couple of spells at random from each class and compared them against each other, again, at random. Doesn't work like that. Some skills are best left alone while others shine as synergy.
3) The only way to do an objective comparison is by picking every possible skill combination paired with many multiple gear configurations and run DPS calculations. Well... some 3 billions skill combinations (incl. runes) for wizard, for example, so have fun doing that.
It just doesn't work like that
Blizzard has internal stats about "unused spells" though and will buff those that no one uses.
I realize that the skills have different mechanics, but tried to group the similar ones together. For example, shock pulse, plague of toads and grenades are all a cast of 3 randomly moving projectiles. Moreover, Sleet Storm and Cloud of Bats are pretty much identical in mechanics, but for some reason the WD version has almost double the damage. I just wanted to highlight the differences.
Yeah, I get tired of statements such as "Anybody who uses ______ skill is wrong, because I've done the math" At the end of the day, the best skills are the ones that fit your playstyle and make the game enjoyable for you. For monks, it is considered a "given" that you should uses Fists of Thunder - Thunderclap. Problem is, I find the teleporting annoying (and unnecessary with increased monster density). With FoT-Quickening, I can spam WoL every few seconds. I find this spec very effective and enjoyable with my skils and gear, so that's the optimal build for me.
As others have said you haven't even looked at resource cost, you've compared a skill like rapid fire with disintegrate and decided rapid fire is better as it does more damage, despite the fact that rapid fire only hits 1 target.
You've ignored things like aoe and utility, in summary your chart is pretty much useless.
Rapid fire and Distintegrate are compared because rapid fire hits a ton of times and enemies die so fast anyway that its almost as if it were a pierce, it also does double the damage disintegrate does.
Rapid fire and Distintegrate are compared because rapid fire hits a ton of times and enemies die so fast anyway that its almost as if it were a pierce, it also does double the damage disintegrate does.
Of course it does. Distinegrate can hit all mobs alone the line, at the same time. Rapid Fire only hits one mob. If Rapid Fire did the same damage, it'd be crap. You're comparing AoE to single target, it just doesn't work.
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And may the odds be ever in your favour. Emmo#2406
Speaking of Rapid Fire and Disintegrate, you can rune Rapid Fire for an AoE (although it's not a beam-based AoE). But the missile speed on Bombardment is ... well it's something that probably flies under the radar. It takes a good bit of getting used to in order to use Bombardment properly, though.
If you were just going to say "AMG Bombardment does double the damage as Disintegrate" you'd really be missing the fact that Disintegrate is significantly more... accurate... than Bombardment and it would be a very incorrect conclusion to say that Bombardment is twice as good (or twice as "imbalanced" in the case of the title of this thread) as Disintegrate.
I think that the closest thing to a "scientific" measurement of which skills are best, is Blizzard's data about which skills are used the most, and which ones are used the least. With millions of highly-motivated "testers" playing the game for hours on end, the "wisdom of crowds" will tend to drive the aggregate toward the skills that are the most efficient and have the best synergies with other skills. Having said that, objective cross-comparisons of skills from one class to another are nearly impossible (If they weren't, Blizzard wouldn't keep nerfing and buffing the skills with every patch.)
On a side note, Is it just me, or does anyone else find it annoying when people refer to individual monsters as a "mob"?
I think it actually became widespread in MMORPG games, and D3's playerbase as well as the jargon used in D3 (this includes the blueposters) is based heavily on MMORPG terms. If you like it or not ;-) The only thing that really annoys me is "kk" for million. Dunno why, just can't stand it.
Yeah there is a lot wrong with this Grid. For the first set of spells you put the DH Hungering Arrow above the Barb because it has a 35% chance to go onto the next target. If we are talking about single mobs it would be the weakest of the bunch. It only deals 115% damage to one mob by itself, piercing doesn't factor into it. To add to this Frenzy gets a very massive speed boost after stacking giving a guaranteed 1.5 attacks at 110% while the Demon hunter is a static 115% per monster. Again this doesn't even fathom builds that could make attack speed more valuable then a proc for an extra attack.
Yeah there is a lot wrong with this Grid. For the first set of spells you put the DH Hungering Arrow above the Barb because it has a 35% chance to go onto the next target. If we are talking about single mobs it would be the weakest of the bunch. It only deals 115% damage to one mob by itself, piercing doesn't factor into it. To add to this Frenzy gets a very massive speed boost after stacking giving a guaranteed 1.5 attacks at 110% while the Demon hunter is a static 115% per monster. Again this doesn't even fathom builds that could make attack speed more valuable then a proc for an extra attack.
Not that I think that the comparison is any better, but just to mention : hungering arrow can pierce and come back to the same mob.
Rapid fire and Distintegrate are compared because rapid fire hits a ton of times and enemies die so fast anyway that its almost as if it were a pierce, it also does double the damage disintegrate does.
The only part that I do agree is that there is indeed quite a wild margin between skills and there do exist an inbalance. especially after so much buff and nerf done to various skills with all the patch. One thing that really come to be is that the original motto that any character can build their skill set in various different manner and still be able to play well simply no longer work. DH after 1.0.8 had almost all but Rapidfiring away. It seems Its been eons since I see a Barb that do not WW ... so and so .... yes there is inbalance between the class and between the skills, but even more so between skills of the same class, now that's even worse
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiEFUIrNqrczdG1pMldRMHRicTU2dTZSYWZUcVo3a0E&usp=sharing
2) You picked a couple of spells at random from each class and compared them against each other, again, at random. Doesn't work like that. Some skills are best left alone while others shine as synergy.
3) The only way to do an objective comparison is by picking every possible skill combination paired with many multiple gear configurations and run DPS calculations. Well... some 3 billions skill combinations (incl. runes) for wizard, for example, so have fun doing that.
It just doesn't work like that
Blizzard has internal stats about "unused spells" though and will buff those that no one uses.
You've ignored things like aoe and utility, in summary your chart is pretty much useless.
Of course it does. Distinegrate can hit all mobs alone the line, at the same time. Rapid Fire only hits one mob. If Rapid Fire did the same damage, it'd be crap. You're comparing AoE to single target, it just doesn't work.
And may the odds be ever in your favour.
Emmo#2406
If you were just going to say "AMG Bombardment does double the damage as Disintegrate" you'd really be missing the fact that Disintegrate is significantly more... accurate... than Bombardment and it would be a very incorrect conclusion to say that Bombardment is twice as good (or twice as "imbalanced" in the case of the title of this thread) as Disintegrate.
Seriously though, you can not compare that directly, the classes work way too different.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
On a side note, Is it just me, or does anyone else find it annoying when people refer to individual monsters as a "mob"?
It's probably just you. Yes, it's "wrong use" if you point at an English dictionary; but it's very common in computer gaming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_(computer_gaming)
I think it actually became widespread in MMORPG games, and D3's playerbase as well as the jargon used in D3 (this includes the blueposters) is based heavily on MMORPG terms. If you like it or not ;-) The only thing that really annoys me is "kk" for million. Dunno why, just can't stand it.
Not that I think that the comparison is any better, but just to mention : hungering arrow can pierce and come back to the same mob.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Aaaaand, all credibility is lost.