So correct me if I am, But wont the "buff" in question actually drop crusader damage? They said they were raising the wep damage 23-36% across the board but heavenly strength reduces the amount of 'Damage dealt' by 20%, wont this be a huge hit to people stacking elemental and elite%? My math may be completely off but an all resource damage reduction doesnt seem like it =weapon damage buff. If I'm not can someone please explain the math in short?
"people stacking elemental and elite%", AKA everyone.
Im no math wizard but I fail to see anything thats complicating the situation here. 2handers get buffed 23-36% minus heavenly str penalty of 20% leaves crusaders with a the small buff of 3-16%. How will this hurt crusaders?
"people stacking elemental and elite%", AKA everyone.
Im no math wizard but I fail to see anything thats complicating the situation here. 2handers get buffed 23-36% minus heavenly str penalty of 20% leaves crusaders with a the small buff of 3-16%. How will this hurt crusaders?
You are not wizard definitely xD They will loose 1,6% dmg in worst case and gain 8,8% in best. Remeber its not that easy when it comes to %. 136*0,8=108,8 and 123*0,8=98,4
"people stacking elemental and elite%", AKA everyone.
Im no math wizard but I fail to see anything thats complicating the situation here. 2handers get buffed 23-36% minus heavenly str penalty of 20% leaves crusaders with a the small buff of 3-16%. How will this hurt crusaders?
returns*
weapon damage is being buff and total damage is being nerfed. weapon damage doesn't account for elemental and elite damage so far as I know, so basically before elemental and elite are calculated the weapon is being buffed, and after damage is calculated the total damage is being dropped.
i.e.(and Im not presuming this is entirely right im just presenting the logic) 100(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=240(total damage)
versus 136(postbuff)(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=326.4-(326.4((.2))=261.12
123(postbuff)(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=295.2-(295.2((.2))=236.16
which would mean at total assuming you had 100% ele and 20% elite depending on the roll parameter blizzard has provided the weapon damage could either be a buff OR be a nerf. What I'm asking is if anyone sees a problem with the math, I assume someone else has done it.
I'm not gonna bother explaining order of damage calculation to anyone who doesn't know this is strictly math nerd shit.
edit* the problem I'm stating is if intensive returns would drop the lost %dps even farther if you raised the amount of elite% in relevance to elemental% in the %of total damage lost not by the amount of grand damage being dealt.
Let's say you have an attack that does w % weapon damage; to get the final damage done by the attack you multiply by y (elemental, elite, skill %, etc)
With your current weapon, one attack does D = A * w * y, where A is a value in the weapon damage range
If the weapon damage gets buffed 23%, and the new passive, then you have, for that same "hit":
D' = (A*(1.23)) * w * y * (0.8) D' = A * w * y * 1.23 * 0.8 D' = Awy * 0.984 D' = 0.984 D
So in the minimum range, it is a slight nerf, if the calculation is correct. With 25% buff it's the same damage.
Edit: you can see the elite, elemental, skill % only adds noise since everything is multiplicative, they can be ignored.
Ok so given the elemental skills*elite is noise What I'm asking is if the ratio recedes in % when you increase and decrease the elite and elemental in increments, if anyone can see what I did above. The reason is because when you do this as is proof {123(postbuff)(1.8{elemental80%})(1.4{elite40%})=309.96} as opposed to {123(postbuff)(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=295.2} does the percent of damage loss(not actual dps) increase or decrease according to how you stack damage. to be clear this is not asking whether or not It's still viable to stack elite against elemental damage because that's clearly never going to be an issue but whether or not the amount given after math has changed in terms of %ratio.
The question originally proposed is whether or not the ratio degrades not whether or not it changes. and it has everything to do with the buff to 2handers, everything posed used math directly relevant to 2hand buffs highs and lows calculating heavenly mights passive with elemental and elite dps, I'm not asking for the face value of the math and asking for the damage curve, I apologize if I wasn't being clear. Does the ratio of damage change in calculation at any point, or does it continue to grow exponentially at the same rate, has this rate changed, etc.
edit*
It may help to make an example of what I'm looking for, something similar to changes in experience curve only stat relevant comparisons in damage with heavenly might.
i dont think you understand what you are talking about.
"Does the ratio of damage change in calculation at any point"
NO nothing changes. AT ALL. its all multiplicative. i think i have said that 3 times already by now.
apart from when its actually a 23% weapon damage increase. then its 1.23*0.8 = 1.6% damage loss.
same with 26% = 0.8 % increase. at 25% its EXACTLY the same as before.
First of all please try to reply without being condescending. It would be much appreciated, especially since I've tried to impose what it is I'm asking in several different way's and you have in fact repeated yourself 3 times contributing nothing but restating whats already been said.
while its not relevant to d3 this is what I'm looking for http://www.lanceglasser.com/Business/experience-curve.gif
not fifth grade math I'd appreciate it if further posts would somehow either prove your math or give constructive feedback
I'm trying to understand the game mechanics, if I knew all the math I wouldn't be asking questions.
It's all multiplicative. So a 23% increase in 2h weapon damage coupled with a 20% decrease to Heaven's Strength works out to a 1.6% nerf. There is, literally, no other math. All the other factors in the damage calculation stay the same (and are multiplicative anyway).
You have a big formula that looks like:
D = a * b * c * d * e * f * g
Even if a = (1 / 1 - a1) that doesn't really matter in this case because e and f are changing, not a.
I think a better question is why wasn't this addressed during the "major itemization overhaul" and the design of one of two actual additions to the game - the Crusader class - in the first place.
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Im no math wizard but I fail to see anything thats complicating the situation here. 2handers get buffed 23-36% minus heavenly str penalty of 20% leaves crusaders with a the small buff of 3-16%. How will this hurt crusaders?
Weapon Damage of 2000 and ability that dose 1000% = 20,000
2.1Weapon damage +25%, 2-Hand Penalty -20%
Weapon Damage of 2500 and ability that dose 1000% = 25,000 - 20% = 20,000
weapon damage is being buff and total damage is being nerfed. weapon damage doesn't account for elemental and elite damage so far as I know, so basically before elemental and elite are calculated the weapon is being buffed, and after damage is calculated the total damage is being dropped.
i.e.(and Im not presuming this is entirely right im just presenting the logic) 100(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=240(total damage)
versus 136(postbuff)(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=326.4-(326.4((.2))=261.12
123(postbuff)(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=295.2-(295.2((.2))=236.16
which would mean at total assuming you had 100% ele and 20% elite depending on the roll parameter blizzard has provided the weapon damage could either be a buff OR be a nerf. What I'm asking is if anyone sees a problem with the math, I assume someone else has done it.
I'm not gonna bother explaining order of damage calculation to anyone who doesn't know this is strictly math nerd shit.
edit* the problem I'm stating is if intensive returns would drop the lost %dps even farther if you raised the amount of elite% in relevance to elemental% in the %of total damage lost not by the amount of grand damage being dealt.
With your current weapon, one attack does D = A * w * y, where A is a value in the weapon damage range
If the weapon damage gets buffed 23%, and the new passive, then you have, for that same "hit":
D' = (A*(1.23)) * w * y * (0.8)
D' = A * w * y * 1.23 * 0.8
D' = Awy * 0.984
D' = 0.984 D
So in the minimum range, it is a slight nerf, if the calculation is correct. With 25% buff it's the same damage.
Edit: you can see the elite, elemental, skill % only adds noise since everything is multiplicative, they can be ignored.
[1.92]
123(postbuff)(1.8{elemental80%})(1.4{elite40%})=309.96-(309.96((.2))=247.968
[2.016]
Ok so given the elemental skills*elite is noise What I'm asking is if the ratio recedes in % when you increase and decrease the elite and elemental in increments, if anyone can see what I did above. The reason is because when you do this as is proof {123(postbuff)(1.8{elemental80%})(1.4{elite40%})=309.96} as opposed to {123(postbuff)(2{elemental100%})(1.2{elite20%})=295.2} does the percent of damage loss(not actual dps) increase or decrease according to how you stack damage. to be clear this is not asking whether or not It's still viable to stack elite against elemental damage because that's clearly never going to be an issue but whether or not the amount given after math has changed in terms of %ratio.
also thank you barbfu for feedback
edit*
It may help to make an example of what I'm looking for, something similar to changes in experience curve only stat relevant comparisons in damage with heavenly might.
while its not relevant to d3 this is what I'm looking for
http://www.lanceglasser.com/Business/experience-curve.gif
not fifth grade math I'd appreciate it if further posts would somehow either prove your math or give constructive feedback
I'm trying to understand the game mechanics, if I knew all the math I wouldn't be asking questions.
It's all multiplicative. So a 23% increase in 2h weapon damage coupled with a 20% decrease to Heaven's Strength works out to a 1.6% nerf. There is, literally, no other math. All the other factors in the damage calculation stay the same (and are multiplicative anyway).
You have a big formula that looks like:
D = a * b * c * d * e * f * g
Even if a = (1 / 1 - a1) that doesn't really matter in this case because e and f are changing, not a.
You are severely overcomplicating the issue.