As said in title... Please avoid voting two times for same class. Classes are listed alphabetically.
Explanation: traditionally, Diablo had no major problems with balance. Third incarnation would be no exception, if no AH was involved. Classes would be matter of preference, and people will play what they like or what they suit their playstyle best. However, i've read quite a bit 'changing the class' rants, which made me wonder, for educational purposes, what does community think?
Please explain your choice briefly, and avoid flaming, if possible. Thank you!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Supporter of Clavdivs The God balancing ideas
h**p://savediablo3.blogspot.com, except i can't use hyperlinks yet. stupid policy!
What? There was a LOT of unbalance in the other diablo games !! Hammerdins anyones? How about the sorcerer in D1? Stack str for heavy armor and spam mana shield, invulnerable. You just didn't hear about it as much because there wasn't as many people on forums.
There will never be true balance in this game or any game, they can only make it close. And the grass is always greener on the other side.
i voted for barbarians, since most people on live channels are barbarians and i saw them performance and gear and... looks like they are not connected
secondly for demon hunter - sheer number of them is a proof. it's easier to find a MP game with 3 demon hunters than it is with one monk, for example. i know blizzard gave different numbers, but my personal experience is that game is swarming with DHs. or maybe just the multiplayer is
new patch note says DH is a 'binary' class, which i don't agree with at all - they are number of builds that DH can use and still be on a level of, say, WD. same goes to barbarian.
(i had played decent amount of time with both barbarians and DHs, if anyone asking)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
a reluctant follower of Clavdivs, The God balancing ideas. you can find more about it by visiting the following topic: http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
I said Barb in 1.04 first for obvious reasons, however I chose Wizard secondly for the Archon and CM:SC builds (or even a combination of the builds). Incredibly powerful builds with equally powerful survivability
I would suspect that by "no major problems with balance" he means "it was not considered an issue". At least that's how I read it in context. (not voting since I haven't played in quite a long time but still find it fun to peek around sometimes)
this is what i meant, maybe wasn't clear enough. yes, hammerdins, sorcs and necros playing in underwears only etc were OP, but there was like 10 major builds and freedom for experiments - basically, skip hammerdin if you hate him, there were like 10 alternative paladin builds, all viable. and underwear necros and sorcs DID die occasionally, so they were just temporary state...
but the topic is D3, not previous games...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Supporter of Clavdivs The God balancing ideas
h**p://savediablo3.blogspot.com, except i can't use hyperlinks yet. stupid policy!
The 1.0.4 WW Barb doesn't take too much to gear and work effectively (I did this myself). Innate survivability gives them an edge as well.
Wizard is a close second, but to farm as efficiently as a WW Barb requires a ton of gold to gear.
Both beat out monk and WD for efficiency, though the new WD is coming up very nicely in terms of burst power. DHs would be great for speed farming, except their survivability is awfully low (compared to melee innate resistance and wizard/WD intel resist bonuses), also lack of continuous burst damage and small AOE limited by Hatred regeneration and/or skill cooldowns.
Of course, I don't have a fully geared Monk and WD, and only a partially geared DH, but I feel like with the current set-up, they're all a little bit behind on farming speed and efficiency.
lets say that result of this poll are viable and correct. if nothing else, they are conclusive: barb=most OP DH/Wiz share 2nd place, WD and Monk are nowhere to be seen
and lets look in 1.05 changelist - wow, the barbarian gets buffed, so is demon hunter, wizard slightly less - and witch doctor and monk are the least changed classes
so, barbarians gonna be low tier now? how about 25% monster nerf, which is whole reason for mentioned 10% armor / res reduction? this kinda evens it out - in fact not, even by blizzard calculations it nerfs monster more than it does defensive skills...
that aside - i know too well that this is NOT how math is done - but for a case of simplification (essence is kept, and we don't use numbers for anything but comparing, so their blind summing up inaccuracy is irrelevant):
right conclusion would be that DH/wizard are, say 'normal' classes, barbarian is currently OP in need of nerf, while monk and WD needs buffs
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
a reluctant follower of Clavdivs, The God balancing ideas. you can find more about it by visiting the following topic: http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
What? There was a LOT of unbalance in the other diablo games !! Hammerdins anyones? How about the sorcerer in D1? Stack str for heavy armor and spam mana shield, invulnerable. You just didn't hear about it as much because there wasn't as many people on forums.
There will never be true balance in this game or any game, they can only make it close. And the grass is always greener on the other side.
Well spoken
ill spoken. SP - imbalances doesn't mattered - take easier or harder class or build, you're playing for own pleasure. MP - imbalances doesn't matter by default, players are joined against common enemy. PvP is only mode where imbalances mattered, but i don't like it - though i won them all
on the other hand, HERE imbalances matter a great deal, since you play against THE HOUSE. like a roulette. against AUCTION HOUSE, to be precise. and what if 1/5 players have increased luck by 10% by default? and 2/5 has it decreased? that does matter a lot!
and before it did not... some kid exploiting hammerdin to the max? what the hell do i care? here, i have to give him hard earned gold, cause only advance is through items, and he can get them and i can not? can i compensate? nope, there aren't 99 levels. so this is the game where balance means the most, and there is least of it
i'm not hating, but reacting to a pure nonsense - just because previous games had some imbalances (boring to play, btw), we shouldn't have balance now? that's your point?
or that imbalance is unavoidable? it's nonsense, meta-game evolves all the time, and new exploits/imbalances are discovered all the time. so, game makers react to them and achieve relative balance again. it won't last or be perfect, but will be better, and sometimes weaker classes/factions/whatever are intentionally overbuffed to compensate for past. balance is dynamic thing, but it can be maintained more or less.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
a reluctant follower of Clavdivs, The God balancing ideas. you can find more about it by visiting the following topic: http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
loosing nerves a bit, are you dave? are you frustrated? care for a game of chess?
on topic, i voted for barbarian, for reasons too numerous to mention - one could start with streaming channels of youtube as a reference and see. besides, i've played it for a while, then switched...
another choice was demon hunter, but for a different reasons than most. having two resources, this should be, in my opinion a 'master class' - somewhat weaker than other, and having to actually think over managing resources. also but more micro oriented.
instead, we got a class easy to play, tending to become imbalanced with proposed changes. on MP random, more than 50% players i've played with were demon hunters - indicate their only weakness, fragility and needing a tank. i suspect it was the main reason they were seeking company (apart from being more numerous it, they are).
now, what happens in future patch? demon hunters got buffed, not necessarily a bad thing - but where? having own tank and even more escaping possibilities? not a right way to do this, do you agree dave? i predict decline in demon hunters in mp games, as low in number as they are now
HAL??? well, hi, i guess... i suppose you'll going to contradict me again on every matter.
true, i was bit too harsh, sorry everyone.
but i don't accept examples from other games as proof that balance shouldn't be even tried to be made.
on your's vote matter, though we voted the same, OP was clearly wanting 1.0.4 situation, and not what-whill-happen-after-next-patch. but DH concept BECOME ill-conceived, true, what now - he/she can summon wolves? and is fighting with bows and traps, but not daggers of close weapons, which would be more normal.... but i'm deriving out of the topic...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
a reluctant follower of Clavdivs, The God balancing ideas. you can find more about it by visiting the following topic: http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
What? There was a LOT of unbalance in the other diablo games !! Hammerdins anyones? How about the sorcerer in D1? Stack str for heavy armor and spam mana shield, invulnerable. You just didn't hear about it as much because there wasn't as many people on forums.
There will never be true balance in this game or any game, they can only make it close. And the grass is always greener on the other side.
Well spoken
ill spoken. SP - imbalances doesn't mattered - take easier or harder class or build, you're playing for own pleasure. MP - imbalances doesn't matter by default, players are joined against common enemy. PvP is only mode where imbalances mattered, but i don't like it - though i won them all
on the other hand, HERE imbalances matter a great deal, since you play against THE HOUSE. like a roulette. against AUCTION HOUSE, to be precise. and what if 1/5 players have increased luck by 10% by default? and 2/5 has it decreased? that does matter a lot!
and before it did not... some kid exploiting hammerdin to the max? what the hell do i care? here, i have to give him hard earned gold, cause only advance is through items, and he can get them and i can not? can i compensate? nope, there aren't 99 levels. so this is the game where balance means the most, and there is least of it
i'm not hating, but reacting to a pure nonsense - just because previous games had some imbalances (boring to play, btw), we shouldn't have balance now? that's your point?
or that imbalance is unavoidable? it's nonsense, meta-game evolves all the time, and new exploits/imbalances are discovered all the time. so, game makers react to them and achieve relative balance again. it won't last or be perfect, but will be better, and sometimes weaker classes/factions/whatever are intentionally overbuffed to compensate for past. balance is dynamic thing, but it can be maintained more or less.
I love your mentality on this subject. It very nicely dove tails into an insight of the culture of the world today. to sum it up; You can't get good items or what you want, because someone else is getting good items or what they want.
you missed point entirely, i wasn't arguing about current balance, but about "can't be balanced ever, lets leave as it is"/"cheers, bro, well said" kind of posts - this is a complete and utter nonsense, which deserved to be commented
and you're one STILL whining about hammerdins, not me... what happened, some sad sad story from your childhood? a hammerdin broke your toys?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
a reluctant follower of Clavdivs, The God balancing ideas. you can find more about it by visiting the following topic: http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
hey, i know you don't want help from me (or anybody), but he had his "hi, m8" already...
look at the posts of that thing, dave! >2000
now, we did argue and theoretized and whatnot over these years, you were admin and member and whatnot on all those forums, but i don't remember reaching 300 messages. that's less than 300 times we felt urge to say or comment something. in years, in some cases...
now, this person feels an irresistible urge to say something every 20 minute - a new worthy idea is born in his head, so he's bound to share it with the rest of the world...
sociologist, really. and YOU being a VICTIM! hahahahaha [internal joke]
and, hey, sociologist, i've took a liberty of looking your profile, WW-Barbarian over DH, sure you think balance cannot be better ever!
and, btw, i go further than dave, if possible - near perfect balance (a perfect doesn't exist) CAN be achieved, if maintained properly
that being said, i stop:
a) defending dave
talking to known trolls and abusers
Explanation: traditionally, Diablo had no major problems with balance. Third incarnation would be no exception, if no AH was involved. Classes would be matter of preference, and people will play what they like or what they suit their playstyle best. However, i've read quite a bit 'changing the class' rants, which made me wonder, for educational purposes, what does community think?
Please explain your choice briefly, and avoid flaming, if possible. Thank you!
h**p://savediablo3.blogspot.com, except i can't use hyperlinks yet. stupid policy!
There will never be true balance in this game or any game, they can only make it close. And the grass is always greener on the other side.
secondly for demon hunter - sheer number of them is a proof. it's easier to find a MP game with 3 demon hunters than it is with one monk, for example. i know blizzard gave different numbers, but my personal experience is that game is swarming with DHs. or maybe just the multiplayer is
new patch note says DH is a 'binary' class, which i don't agree with at all - they are number of builds that DH can use and still be on a level of, say, WD. same goes to barbarian.
(i had played decent amount of time with both barbarians and DHs, if anyone asking)
http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
the website of Clavdivs:
http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
this is what i meant, maybe wasn't clear enough. yes, hammerdins, sorcs and necros playing in underwears only etc were OP, but there was like 10 major builds and freedom for experiments - basically, skip hammerdin if you hate him, there were like 10 alternative paladin builds, all viable. and underwear necros and sorcs DID die occasionally, so they were just temporary state...
but the topic is D3, not previous games...
h**p://savediablo3.blogspot.com, except i can't use hyperlinks yet. stupid policy!
Wizard is a close second, but to farm as efficiently as a WW Barb requires a ton of gold to gear.
Both beat out monk and WD for efficiency, though the new WD is coming up very nicely in terms of burst power. DHs would be great for speed farming, except their survivability is awfully low (compared to melee innate resistance and wizard/WD intel resist bonuses), also lack of continuous burst damage and small AOE limited by Hatred regeneration and/or skill cooldowns.
Of course, I don't have a fully geared Monk and WD, and only a partially geared DH, but I feel like with the current set-up, they're all a little bit behind on farming speed and efficiency.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
and lets look in 1.05 changelist - wow, the barbarian gets buffed, so is demon hunter, wizard slightly less - and witch doctor and monk are the least changed classes
Witch Doctor = second most powerful in 1.0.4 (pet buff was awesome)
that aside - i know too well that this is NOT how math is done - but for a case of simplification (essence is kept, and we don't use numbers for anything but comparing, so their blind summing up inaccuracy is irrelevant):
1. barbarian =77 + 13 = 90%
2. DH/wizard = ~ 40%
3. monk/WD = miserable ~15%
right conclusion would be that DH/wizard are, say 'normal' classes, barbarian is currently OP in need of nerf, while monk and WD needs buffs
http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
the website of Clavdivs:
http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
I agree with that claim. It does appear that way as of now.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
ill spoken. SP - imbalances doesn't mattered - take easier or harder class or build, you're playing for own pleasure. MP - imbalances doesn't matter by default, players are joined against common enemy. PvP is only mode where imbalances mattered, but i don't like it - though i won them all
on the other hand, HERE imbalances matter a great deal, since you play against THE HOUSE. like a roulette. against AUCTION HOUSE, to be precise. and what if 1/5 players have increased luck by 10% by default? and 2/5 has it decreased? that does matter a lot!
and before it did not... some kid exploiting hammerdin to the max? what the hell do i care? here, i have to give him hard earned gold, cause only advance is through items, and he can get them and i can not? can i compensate? nope, there aren't 99 levels. so this is the game where balance means the most, and there is least of it
i'm not hating, but reacting to a pure nonsense - just because previous games had some imbalances (boring to play, btw), we shouldn't have balance now? that's your point?
or that imbalance is unavoidable? it's nonsense, meta-game evolves all the time, and new exploits/imbalances are discovered all the time. so, game makers react to them and achieve relative balance again. it won't last or be perfect, but will be better, and sometimes weaker classes/factions/whatever are intentionally overbuffed to compensate for past. balance is dynamic thing, but it can be maintained more or less.
http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
the website of Clavdivs:
http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
on topic, i voted for barbarian, for reasons too numerous to mention - one could start with streaming channels of youtube as a reference and see. besides, i've played it for a while, then switched...
another choice was demon hunter, but for a different reasons than most. having two resources, this should be, in my opinion a 'master class' - somewhat weaker than other, and having to actually think over managing resources. also but more micro oriented.
instead, we got a class easy to play, tending to become imbalanced with proposed changes. on MP random, more than 50% players i've played with were demon hunters - indicate their only weakness, fragility and needing a tank. i suspect it was the main reason they were seeking company (apart from being more numerous it, they are).
now, what happens in future patch? demon hunters got buffed, not necessarily a bad thing - but where? having own tank and even more escaping possibilities? not a right way to do this, do you agree dave? i predict decline in demon hunters in mp games, as low in number as they are now
true, i was bit too harsh, sorry everyone.
but i don't accept examples from other games as proof that balance shouldn't be even tried to be made.
on your's vote matter, though we voted the same, OP was clearly wanting 1.0.4 situation, and not what-whill-happen-after-next-patch. but DH concept BECOME ill-conceived, true, what now - he/she can summon wolves? and is fighting with bows and traps, but not daggers of close weapons, which would be more normal.... but i'm deriving out of the topic...
http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
the website of Clavdivs:
http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
I love your mentality on this subject. It very nicely dove tails into an insight of the culture of the world today. to sum it up; You can't get good items or what you want, because someone else is getting good items or what they want.
Try to stop being a victim.
and you're one STILL whining about hammerdins, not me... what happened, some sad sad story from your childhood? a hammerdin broke your toys?
http://www.diablofan...-future-patchs/
the website of Clavdivs:
http://savediablo3.wix.com/diablo3#!home/mainPage
look at the posts of that thing, dave! >2000
now, we did argue and theoretized and whatnot over these years, you were admin and member and whatnot on all those forums, but i don't remember reaching 300 messages. that's less than 300 times we felt urge to say or comment something. in years, in some cases...
now, this person feels an irresistible urge to say something every 20 minute - a new worthy idea is born in his head, so he's bound to share it with the rest of the world...
sociologist, really. and YOU being a VICTIM! hahahahaha [internal joke]
and, hey, sociologist, i've took a liberty of looking your profile, WW-Barbarian over DH, sure you think balance cannot be better ever!
and, btw, i go further than dave, if possible - near perfect balance (a perfect doesn't exist) CAN be achieved, if maintained properly
that being said, i stop:
a) defending dave
talking to known trolls and abusers
there is work to be done!