I remember back when I played Diablo 2, it was a very intensive process to reach level 99. Most people stopped leveling just before, at, or around level 90. A character carried some prestige with them if they were level 92 or above. I really liked this aspect because there weren't a bunch of level 99 characters. I worry that in Diablo 3, level 60 will be a relatively easy to attain level. I'm not a huge fan of having several max level characters running around just like there are in WoW and then placing the primary focus on gear. I understand the concept and see why it would be preferred and really don't mind it if implemented correctly. But I like having that little bit of room for growth in level where most people might not care enough to reach, no matter how intensive it is. The prestige is well worth it for some people. At the very least, the option of an intensive last 5 to 10 levels would be nice to have... Besides I don't remember there being too big of a difference between a level 98 player fighting a level 93 player. The emphasis was still mostly on gear. But those who take the time to reach a higher level should reap what little benefit they can get from it.
In summary:
I just hope its just as hard to get to level 60 in Diablo 3 as it was to get to level 99 in Diablo 2 if not similarly (There is also the prestige aspect). I think it really added extra play to the game, it's also why i think people stuck around as long as they did in DIablo 2. What will people do if they can't do Baal runs anymore. I wonder what they implemented for us to enjoy after we've reached max level. Besides PvP that is... Having that extra room for growth always available was a nice thing to have.
Share your thoughts guys. I'm curious what previous Diablo 2 fans think about this.
I'm pretty sure it's been discussed alot already but whatever, let's give it a go.
I think that with each level up the character should get more powerful. In that sense, Diablo II didn't do it that well, except for specific levels that you could gain access to new spells.
Gaining a level should be more important than that. The character should gain power and i'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen.
Now as of leveling rate, i think Blizzard mentioned that we're going to be around 30 by the end of normal, 50 in nightmare and 60 in hell.
Which is pretty cool, since we're going to gain in power and continue upgrading our character through runes and gear.
In Diablo II there wasn't a real point to level to 99. Unless you wanted to go to the top of the ladder. But again, even if you did so, it was only a matter of time and endless grind to have others do the same thing.
Achieving max level in d2 was quite ludicrous. You literally had to do bajilion baal runs.
Most level 99 were bots anyways.
D3 will make achieving max lvl more reasonable this time around.
Level 60 should be hard in some sense, but not "d2" hard
Logically the level differences for each difficulty would pace at 30, 20, 10 and that's a lot of what drove the nice round 60 level cap.
These came from one of level 60 cap quotes from bashiok and it looks like a good pace to me. I'm not a big fan of grinding levels nor tried to reach level 99 back in LoD. I would still rather look for that gear/loots or do that end game that blizz has planned out for d3 than grinding for max level. I'm pretty sure Diablo 3 will have hundreds of achievement at release (and more will be added through minor/major patches) and this alone pumps me up!
In my opinion it will only take 1 good achievement (that gives you a bragging rights) to replace peeps urge for being level 99
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I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North,Torchlight 2,Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
I'm pretty sure it's been discussed alot already but whatever, let's give it a go.
I think that with each level up the character should get more powerful. In that sense, Diablo II didn't do it that well, except for specific levels that you could gain access to new spells.
Thinking back, I do agree that Diablo II leveling was pretty weak, I guess just because they had too much room for expansion. I guess to do something similarly in Diablo III may be impractical because of the system already implemented (Which I do like so far). I also assume that like WoW, the expansions may expand the level cap as well. I feel that a lower level, yet similar type of grinding might occur, but instead of it being for leveling, it will probably be for item finding. Certain items dropping from certain monsters? Anyways, just more thoughts...
By the way, I would like to have a mode beyond Hell that would require level 60 through all acts. That way the starting portion of the game can be replayed the same way. I mean, nobody ever went back to ACT I in D2. (I threw this thought in here just because it suddenly occurred to me) - Thread about it yet?
By the way, I would like to have a mode beyond Hell that would require level 60 through all acts. That way the starting portion of the game can be replayed the same way. I mean, nobody ever went back to ACT I in D2. (I threw this thought in here just because it suddenly occurred to me) - Thread about it yet?
I did get back to the previous acts but for mf exclusively.
Anyway, there will be content for level 60 characters, but Blizzard hasn't revealed anything yet.
That so called End-Game should be quite awesome.
Got to level 96 once. It so wasn't worth it. I like grinding in games sometimes but I look back on all those hours of Baal runs and I thought, this shouldn't be what people play this game for?
Like sometimes I'd be all, "Hey guys! Let's go questing!" And they were just like, "No we're gonna do Baal runs." And then I was like, "Oh okay..."
In summary:
I just hope its just as hard to get to level 60 in Diablo 3 as it was to get to level 99 in Diablo 2 if not similarly (There is also the prestige aspect). I think it really added extra play to the game, it's also why i think people stuck around as long as they did in DIablo 2. What will people do if they can't do Baal runs anymore. I wonder what they implemented for us to enjoy after we've reached max level. Besides PvP that is... Having that extra room for growth always available was a nice thing to have.
I do get what you're saying. I mean, for the people who don't mind grinding on why shouldn't they be able to strive for a higher level that most people aren't willing to go for?
As for the prestige, well with my 96 Assassin I felt a mix of prestige and loserness. Cause everyone who sees you knows how much time you spent at attaining just a few more base points. I was never smart enough to know how to use a bot so people could safely assume this about me: sitting there for hours on end leveling my character in those horribly boring and impersonal Baal runs.
There is something kind of depressing about reaching the highest level though. But I never really experienced this kind of depression in Diablo. Other games, like say, Fallout 3 it's kind of a drag when you reach level 30. But it's also way easier to get to level 30.
While I know Diablo 3 will be attempting to reach a broader audience, thus perhaps minusing a bit of the grind, I'm sure there are some challenges in store for players to get to level 60.
You know what would be cool is if sixty was the cap for gaining talents and points or whatever, and then anything past that IS for those grinders that want to do so. It would be useful for someone who wants to just quest or whatever in seeing just how long they've played with a current character, and could be nice for the throwback nostalgia.
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I dont want it to be too easy to hit max level, i waited a long time for this game and i want it to at least feel like it has some meat to it if by chance it is lacking in length (that is what she said).
Now as of leveling rate, i think Blizzard mentioned that we're going to be around 30 by the end of normal, 50 in nightmare and 60 in hell.
I don't like the whole idea that character level is capped to difficulty level. Or is it? I don't have time/patience to google or search this forum for an definite answer, so, if possible, you'll have to forgive me. Anyway, if I want to grind for loot, I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to reach the maximum character level while playing on Normal or Hard, before I meet the end boss, whoever he might be...
It's a rough estimate (according to Bashiok or @Diablo, not sure which it was tbh) for the first playthrough. You should get more experience by re-doing the stuff you've already finished. But i'm not quite sure if you'd get good items from the lower difficulty monsters. At least i find it hard to imagine to have better items at nightmare bosses than even the crafted from hell.
The main issue with the random dungeon scrolls of Torchlight was the lack of depth and lore. It kinda made you lose interest after a while.
Is it viable as Diablo III end-game? Definitely, if they add it properly. Add real quests and lore in it and it's awesome. But isn't it about as the random encounters are going to work?
The best I ever did was an 89 barb(qwertynnvbf :P) my first character, and that took a ridiculous amount of time even to get there. I like the earlier Idea of getting to 60 and then all benefits cease when you level up and new levels are just a measure of how long you've played, so those who like to be super leveled can be.
There will be plenty of things to do at max level because of the way diablo's loot works. In WoW, there is hardly any progression, just basically the current tier of raiding. In D3, gear makes all the difference in the world, so it's important to work through the tiers of content. They can make a difficult dungeon with release, and have it hard to beat with even the best loot available, then with an expansion, that dungeon will still be relevant, cause you need the type of drops from it to advance. A static level cap is a good thing for a game based on gear progression.
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"Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes, because then you're a mile away, and you have his shoes." - Douglas Adams
Well theres basically two things to keep in mind IMO:
1. We don't know what the plans are for the endgame, which could be very interesting even though it doesn't include leveling.
2. Those last 10 levels will also include the last two levels of runes, which could end up making them just as important, or close to as important, as the groups of levels you gain through Nightmare and Normal. If the skills/traits are set up in a certain way, they could make it so that those last 10 levels really complete a build. Especially if it allows you to have max level runes in more of your skills.
Another note about the endgame is that it could give you access to whatever systems they haven't revealed yet, or make you powerful enough to kill bosses, that give you the next "tier" of gear (or something similar) once you hit the max level, which would make it an important milestone.
Also, as far as "boring," the ratio of levels gained per difficulty is about the same as in D2. And I would argue that the increased difficulty would force you to be more strategic, which is more fun. I would also say that the amount of levels gained isn't even close to the only factor in what makes the game fun.
Playing through an entire difficulty and only gaining 10 levels sounds a bit boring.
Playing through 65+ levels and only doing Baal runs sounds about the same.
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I hit lvl 97 with my Barb after I perfected the PvP WW build I wanted over a few characters. I gotta say it wasn't really worth it.. I would bring my buddies Barb into games from his account to test how well mine was progressing, I found hitting lvl 90 was pretty important, the extra stats and skills helped compared to say lvl 80. Though from about lvl 92 to 97 I didn't notice any real difference out side of luck..
I voted for several hours of grinding, about 4-6 would be reasonable. Mathematically since the lvl cap is 60 each lvl would offer more benefits from say 50-60, than compared to 90-99. It's just the nature of the same amount of points being added to a ever growing pool of points.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
It doesn't matter if the last 10 levels complete your build. #1, not everyone cares about builds, some people just wanna play the game, you know? And #2, even if you care, you're still only going to be able to assign 10 skill points and 5 trait points. Plus, Hell is probably going to take longer to complete than Normal, so the ratio is even more eschewed (ratio of skill points gained per hour played). PLUS, in Hell you're not gonna change gear as much as you will in Normal, so all things considered, you've got much, MUCH less to look forward to in Hell than in the other difficulties.
Well for starters most people playing through Hell will be at least somewhat concerned with their build. And gaining a trait point only every other level is something they said they wanted to change if they could. And again, if they do it right, the runes you gain access to in Hell could make up for the lack of actual skill points.
As far as gear goes, I don't know that what you're saying will end up being true. You'll be fighting through the same bosses and areas, so the same amount of gear could drop. Last we heard there were 18 "tiers" (which only refers to visuals) of gear, so that easily divides into 6 tiers per difficulty. And thats not taking into account the fact that each visual will contain a wide range of possible stats/items.
And like I said before, these are all things that could also be applied to D2's Hell difficulty (if you don't take into account all those "extra" levels that most people didn't get).
I remember back when I played Diablo 2, it was a very intensive process to reach level 99. Most people stopped leveling just before, at, or around level 90. A character carried some prestige with them if they were level 92 or above. I really liked this aspect because there weren't a bunch of level 99 characters. I worry that in Diablo 3, level 60 will be a relatively easy to attain level. I'm not a huge fan of having several max level characters running around just like there are in WoW and then placing the primary focus on gear. I understand the concept and see why it would be preferred and really don't mind it if implemented correctly. But I like having that little bit of room for growth in level where most people might not care enough to reach, no matter how intensive it is. The prestige is well worth it for some people. At the very least, the option of an intensive last 5 to 10 levels would be nice to have... Besides I don't remember there being too big of a difference between a level 98 player fighting a level 93 player. The emphasis was still mostly on gear. But those who take the time to reach a higher level should reap what little benefit they can get from it.
In summary:
I just hope its just as hard to get to level 60 in Diablo 3 as it was to get to level 99 in Diablo 2 if not similarly (There is also the prestige aspect). I think it really added extra play to the game, it's also why i think people stuck around as long as they did in DIablo 2. What will people do if they can't do Baal runs anymore. I wonder what they implemented for us to enjoy after we've reached max level. Besides PvP that is... Having that extra room for growth always available was a nice thing to have.
Share your thoughts guys. I'm curious what previous Diablo 2 fans think about this.
Cheers,
-Juystafan
I think that with each level up the character should get more powerful. In that sense, Diablo II didn't do it that well, except for specific levels that you could gain access to new spells.
Gaining a level should be more important than that. The character should gain power and i'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen.
Now as of leveling rate, i think Blizzard mentioned that we're going to be around 30 by the end of normal, 50 in nightmare and 60 in hell.
Which is pretty cool, since we're going to gain in power and continue upgrading our character through runes and gear.
In Diablo II there wasn't a real point to level to 99. Unless you wanted to go to the top of the ladder. But again, even if you did so, it was only a matter of time and endless grind to have others do the same thing.
Most level 99 were bots anyways.
D3 will make achieving max lvl more reasonable this time around.
Level 60 should be hard in some sense, but not "d2" hard
We'll keep an eye on this one, however, to make sure there's no trolling.
Now let the discussion continue
These came from one of level 60 cap quotes from bashiok and it looks like a good pace to me. I'm not a big fan of grinding levels nor tried to reach level 99 back in LoD. I would still rather look for that gear/loots or do that end game that blizz has planned out for d3 than grinding for max level. I'm pretty sure Diablo 3 will have hundreds of achievement at release (and more will be added through minor/major patches) and this alone pumps me up!
In my opinion it will only take 1 good achievement (that gives you a bragging rights) to replace peeps urge for being level 99
Yeah, I forgot about bots... Ick.
Thinking back, I do agree that Diablo II leveling was pretty weak, I guess just because they had too much room for expansion. I guess to do something similarly in Diablo III may be impractical because of the system already implemented (Which I do like so far). I also assume that like WoW, the expansions may expand the level cap as well. I feel that a lower level, yet similar type of grinding might occur, but instead of it being for leveling, it will probably be for item finding. Certain items dropping from certain monsters? Anyways, just more thoughts...
By the way, I would like to have a mode beyond Hell that would require level 60 through all acts. That way the starting portion of the game can be replayed the same way. I mean, nobody ever went back to ACT I in D2. (I threw this thought in here just because it suddenly occurred to me) - Thread about it yet?
I did get back to the previous acts but for mf exclusively.
Anyway, there will be content for level 60 characters, but Blizzard hasn't revealed anything yet.
That so called End-Game should be quite awesome.
Like sometimes I'd be all, "Hey guys! Let's go questing!" And they were just like, "No we're gonna do Baal runs." And then I was like, "Oh okay..."
I do get what you're saying. I mean, for the people who don't mind grinding on why shouldn't they be able to strive for a higher level that most people aren't willing to go for?
As for the prestige, well with my 96 Assassin I felt a mix of prestige and loserness. Cause everyone who sees you knows how much time you spent at attaining just a few more base points. I was never smart enough to know how to use a bot so people could safely assume this about me: sitting there for hours on end leveling my character in those horribly boring and impersonal Baal runs.
There is something kind of depressing about reaching the highest level though. But I never really experienced this kind of depression in Diablo. Other games, like say, Fallout 3 it's kind of a drag when you reach level 30. But it's also way easier to get to level 30.
While I know Diablo 3 will be attempting to reach a broader audience, thus perhaps minusing a bit of the grind, I'm sure there are some challenges in store for players to get to level 60.
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It's a rough estimate (according to Bashiok or @Diablo, not sure which it was tbh) for the first playthrough. You should get more experience by re-doing the stuff you've already finished. But i'm not quite sure if you'd get good items from the lower difficulty monsters. At least i find it hard to imagine to have better items at nightmare bosses than even the crafted from hell.
Is it viable as Diablo III end-game? Definitely, if they add it properly. Add real quests and lore in it and it's awesome. But isn't it about as the random encounters are going to work?
There will be plenty of things to do at max level because of the way diablo's loot works. In WoW, there is hardly any progression, just basically the current tier of raiding. In D3, gear makes all the difference in the world, so it's important to work through the tiers of content. They can make a difficult dungeon with release, and have it hard to beat with even the best loot available, then with an expansion, that dungeon will still be relevant, cause you need the type of drops from it to advance. A static level cap is a good thing for a game based on gear progression.
1. We don't know what the plans are for the endgame, which could be very interesting even though it doesn't include leveling.
2. Those last 10 levels will also include the last two levels of runes, which could end up making them just as important, or close to as important, as the groups of levels you gain through Nightmare and Normal. If the skills/traits are set up in a certain way, they could make it so that those last 10 levels really complete a build. Especially if it allows you to have max level runes in more of your skills.
Another note about the endgame is that it could give you access to whatever systems they haven't revealed yet, or make you powerful enough to kill bosses, that give you the next "tier" of gear (or something similar) once you hit the max level, which would make it an important milestone.
Also, as far as "boring," the ratio of levels gained per difficulty is about the same as in D2. And I would argue that the increased difficulty would force you to be more strategic, which is more fun. I would also say that the amount of levels gained isn't even close to the only factor in what makes the game fun.
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Also read Wintendo, as DINGBANG is attempting to play through 764 SNES games in a back catalog.
I voted for several hours of grinding, about 4-6 would be reasonable. Mathematically since the lvl cap is 60 each lvl would offer more benefits from say 50-60, than compared to 90-99. It's just the nature of the same amount of points being added to a ever growing pool of points.
As far as gear goes, I don't know that what you're saying will end up being true. You'll be fighting through the same bosses and areas, so the same amount of gear could drop. Last we heard there were 18 "tiers" (which only refers to visuals) of gear, so that easily divides into 6 tiers per difficulty. And thats not taking into account the fact that each visual will contain a wide range of possible stats/items.
And like I said before, these are all things that could also be applied to D2's Hell difficulty (if you don't take into account all those "extra" levels that most people didn't get).
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