The only way to make a game where everybody has enough skill to finish it but at the same time it is hard to finish it is by making the game very long, but honestly, I prefer a Diablo length game to a game with the size of an MMO.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
I do agree. I would like to see all sorts of cool places to explore that make you go "wow" and "this is cool" ect. I would have much more mun and enjoy the game a lot better if there was the kind of diversity you described.
I don't fully agree. Clearing a game should not be 'easy' as in, any person can finish the game no sweat.
And btw there are no rules for games anyway, you just made that up. (Unless you shove a big bad argument with source in my face.)
Sure, any person should be able to finish the game. I agree, this does not mean that the game should be a breeze.
The game needs to be challenging, you need to know how to play or do certain parts or you simply do not advance.
If games aren't challenging, why play them at all? You could just make the game as easy as: go in this portal and you win.
It's not a rule or anything crappy, but it's a generally accepted saying, a game needs to be challenging to be fun.
Like all those zelda games, they are challenging, however if you know the rules of the boss practically any person can beat it. Some just take longer to beat it then others. It does not even remove the challenging part.
TL:DR
Only kids play easy mode (and D3 is going to be 18+ (or 16+) so kids can just go cry in a corner :D), games need to be challenging (on all difficulties), not impossible but you need to know what you are doing.
However any person should be able to learn what you are supposed to do.
yes it's a "non-writed rule" :rolleyes:
The need for a game is not really/completly the challenge, the key is fun, and indeed the challenge is fun BUT watch out for "frustration" part...
What I mean is like you, a game need to be beatable like I said, but you need have fun, so challenge...
I do agree. I would like to see all sorts of cool places to explore that make you go "wow".
No! You used the forbidden word !
yes it's a "non-writed rule" :rolleyes:
The need for a game is not really/completly the challenge, the key is fun, and indeed the challenge is fun BUT watch out for "frustration" part...
What I mean is like you, a game need to be beatable like I said, but you need have fun, so challenge...
Challenge is a big factor for the game being fun. Actually, the biggest.
When a game is not challenging i few like my brain are going numb and looks like i'm loosing my time with something retarded.
And i don't think dying in a game is frustrating. Loose is natural process for learning, and learn is the funnest part of a game.
Challenge is the biggest part of a game being fun, no question.
Would you really enjoy fighting games if the enemies don't fight back.
Would you really enjoy racing games if the track was nothing but a strait road.
Would you really enjoy puzzle games if the puzzle is simple enough to be solved by a 3y old.
Challenge is fun, however in my opinion it seems you misinterpret the word 'challenge'.
Don't really know how to explain it if the above examples don't do it for you.
Hey I never said I don't like challenge ?!...
However I can tell you that a challenge in no way needs to be frustrating. It's only frustrating when you can't figure out how to beat it, or simply can't. It's also without a doubt related to the mental strength of the person playing.
I hardly get frustrated by games, sure there are points where I fail horribly for multiple times in a row, or where I face clearly unfair odds. When I can't beat it'; I just close the game. No need to lose my cool, I'll just have fun doing something else.
Then when I have time to play again I simply try again and in most cases I beat it.
The only thing that frustrates me is dieing/losing and not having a save point (due to my own stupidity) and having the tedious task to do everything I did before again, this can be horrible if your previous save file was over half an hour old. Same applies to the game crashing.
Not that I hate losing a challenge, but I do hate redoing things I already cleared or passed.
I agree, the "frustrating" part of games is almost fixed today.
Challenging is normal, dying is normal but not 10 times in a row or an impossible part...
Like you said I really dislike redo the same thing twice.
Challenge is the biggest part of a game being fun, no question.
Would you really enjoy fighting games if the enemies don't fight back.
Would you really enjoy racing games if the track was nothing but a strait road.
Would you really enjoy puzzle games if the puzzle is simple enough to be solved by a 3y old.
Challenge is fun, however in my opinion it seems you misinterpret the word 'challenge'.
Don't really know how to explain it if the above examples don't do it for you.
Hey I never said I don't like challenge ?!...
However I can tell you that a challenge in no way needs to be frustrating. It's only frustrating when you can't figure out how to beat it, or simply can't. It's also without a doubt related to the mental strength of the person playing.
I hardly get frustrated by games, sure there are points where I fail horribly for multiple times in a row, or where I face clearly unfair odds. When I can't beat it'; I just close the game. No need to lose my cool, I'll just have fun doing something else.
Then when I have time to play again I simply try again and in most cases I beat it.
The only thing that frustrates me is dieing/losing and not having a save point (due to my own stupidity) and having the tedious task to do everything I did before again, this can be horrible if your previous save file was over half an hour old. Same applies to the game crashing.
Not that I hate losing a challenge, but I do hate redoing things I already cleared or passed.
I agree, the "frustrating" part of games is almost fixed today.
Challenging is normal, dying is normal but not 10 times in a row or an impossible part...
Like you said I really dislike redo the same thing twice.
Every player have it's own "frustration resistance" function. Also, every player get frustrated with different things. Some hates dying, other hates redoing, others hates farming, etc...
Whats challenging and fun for some are frustrating for others.
Imo a game in it's highest difficult shouldn't be donnable by everyone. People who gets frutrated fast should keep playing normal and nightmare. Hell should be made for player who want to put more decdication to the game and need a difficult challenge.
How did this become about difficulty? Show my thread some respect!
It's been made clear more than once that when I said "easy" I was referring to the gameplay functions being simple enough to have a broad audience to cater to.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
How did this become about difficulty? Show my thread some respect!
It's been made clear more than once that when I said "easy" I was referring to the gameplay functions being simple enough to have a broad audience to cater to.
Do you refer to the remove of the "weapon switch" ?
the diversity in gameplay will be more fun, (AI enemies, manner to kill them, using the good skill for the right situation...)
How did this become about difficulty? Show my thread some respect!
It's been made clear more than once that when I said "easy" I was referring to the gameplay functions being simple enough to have a broad audience to cater to.
Sorry for the off topic, brother.
In topic: I think we will have good diversity in D3. I hope to travel around alot of places and fight through multiple dungeons!
Ok I have to add my 2 cents in. This is a long post and Ill read the rest later(I dont know if anyone has said what im about to say.)
They have already confirmed that diversity is one of thier keyfactors. On top of that they also stated that in each act there will be multi towns/events (example:diablo 2(act 1 act 2 and some of act 3 are act 1 in D3 so to speak or even just act 1 and 2.) Plus they said more you play futher down the story line things will get darker harder and worse for us. We try to get where we are heading to fight whoever it maybe (Diablo?) lol.(thats for all the critics for the color thing)> from d1 to d2 that lore of everything starting to plunder to terror, hate, and in the end destruction. We dident get to see all those things all of it happened already. They where already on there way to hell (act 1) Andy ect ect. In D3 I think one of the main points they want to get across is the transition from a peacefull world that in d2 we tried so hard to get. to once agin a world of hate terror and agin in the end destruction? They want us to feel that hate. They want us to feel the terror. They want us to see the destrucion.
IF you ever listened to a developer panel, the game is made to be very easy. It's one of the functions of the game. Diablo does not work if it is not easy.
Maybe if you knew the story I would actually feel compelled to respond about the plot...
"Gameplay first". It's writen in the orc brass statue on blizzard central's yard.
Right next to the golden one that says Thank god for people paying irl money for vanity items in WoW. I can kind of see where Umpa was going with talking about the ease of the game, Diablo has to much dungeon to work through to be super hard because if it was you wouldn't get anywhere. I'm sure in D3 there will either be multiple difficulty's again or the game will be balanced on a higher level for more skilled players and easier for less skilled players much like how Blizz has done with WoW. Umpa u have the most unique sig and avatar ever Reptar was my hero as a kid just had to give props on that lol.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
yes it's a "non-writed rule" :rolleyes:
The need for a game is not really/completly the challenge, the key is fun, and indeed the challenge is fun BUT watch out for "frustration" part...
What I mean is like you, a game need to be beatable like I said, but you need have fun, so challenge...
No! You used the forbidden word !
Challenge is a big factor for the game being fun. Actually, the biggest.
When a game is not challenging i few like my brain are going numb and looks like i'm loosing my time with something retarded.
And i don't think dying in a game is frustrating. Loose is natural process for learning, and learn is the funnest part of a game.
I agree, the "frustrating" part of games is almost fixed today.
Challenging is normal, dying is normal but not 10 times in a row or an impossible part...
Like you said I really dislike redo the same thing twice.
Every player have it's own "frustration resistance" function. Also, every player get frustrated with different things. Some hates dying, other hates redoing, others hates farming, etc...
Whats challenging and fun for some are frustrating for others.
Imo a game in it's highest difficult shouldn't be donnable by everyone. People who gets frutrated fast should keep playing normal and nightmare. Hell should be made for player who want to put more decdication to the game and need a difficult challenge.
It's been made clear more than once that when I said "easy" I was referring to the gameplay functions being simple enough to have a broad audience to cater to.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
the diversity in gameplay will be more fun, (AI enemies, manner to kill them, using the good skill for the right situation...)
Sorry for the off topic, brother.
In topic: I think we will have good diversity in D3. I hope to travel around alot of places and fight through multiple dungeons!
They have already confirmed that diversity is one of thier keyfactors. On top of that they also stated that in each act there will be multi towns/events (example:diablo 2(act 1 act 2 and some of act 3 are act 1 in D3 so to speak or even just act 1 and 2.) Plus they said more you play futher down the story line things will get darker harder and worse for us. We try to get where we are heading to fight whoever it maybe (Diablo?) lol.(thats for all the critics for the color thing)> from d1 to d2 that lore of everything starting to plunder to terror, hate, and in the end destruction. We dident get to see all those things all of it happened already. They where already on there way to hell (act 1) Andy ect ect. In D3 I think one of the main points they want to get across is the transition from a peacefull world that in d2 we tried so hard to get. to once agin a world of hate terror and agin in the end destruction? They want us to feel that hate. They want us to feel the terror. They want us to see the destrucion.
Thanks for reading
~Mike~
Right next to the golden one that says Thank god for people paying irl money for vanity items in WoW. I can kind of see where Umpa was going with talking about the ease of the game, Diablo has to much dungeon to work through to be super hard because if it was you wouldn't get anywhere. I'm sure in D3 there will either be multiple difficulty's again or the game will be balanced on a higher level for more skilled players and easier for less skilled players much like how Blizz has done with WoW. Umpa u have the most unique sig and avatar ever Reptar was my hero as a kid just had to give props on that lol.