Sorry for the pun in advance. So should I be skipping on CHC to maintain that 1:10 ratio? I've heard people note that getting to that ratio, even if it meant losing CHC in the process, made their sheet dps go up. I tried this with my DH by taking paragon out of crit chance but my sheet dps went down. Does staying at this ratio make a large difference to overall damage? To the point where I should ignore its effect on my sheet dps? I've never understood the math behind this ratio.

The 1:10 ratio is of importance when comparing crit chance WITH crit damage.

What the rule says is that if your crit chance is lower than the 1:10 ratio that crit chance is more valuable than CHD.

If in turn your CHD is below the 10:1 to crit chance then CHD is more valuable.

It's not that your DPS magically goes up when you hit this ratio, it simply means that it's most beneficial to keep close to this ratio.

Example: 40 paragon points (assume your crits deal 0% bonus damage and you have 0% crit by default, I know you have a base 50% CHD but ignore that for the example)

Crit chance gives 0.1% per point

CHD gives 1% per point.

If you put 30 points in CHC and 10 in CHD then you would have a 3% chance to deal 10% bonus damage = 0.3% bonus damage on average

20 in CHC and 20 in CHD you would have 2% chance to deal 20% bonus damage = 0.4% bonus damage

5 in CHC and 35 in CHD would give 0.5% to deal 35% bonus damage = 0.175% bonus damage

As you can see the 2-20% balance (= 1:10 ratio) grants the highest DPS

If your gear set is imbalanced you could end with 20% CHC but 400% CHD = 80% increased damage

While a better balanced set of the same value could have 30% CHC and 300% CHD = 90% increased damage

That's a whole 10% more damage gained from the same value items/paragon points by simply balancing them out.

It's a rule of thumb, but it should not be applied blindly. For example: if you have 40% CHC and 350% CHD, you should choose CHD over CHC on paragon - yes.

However, other than on amulet and paragon there's no stats where both stats roll equally high (i.e., 10% CHC/100% CHC or fractions of those). On gloves CHC is *always* better and a must-have because 10% CHC is better than 50% CHD all the time (exception: Broken Promises ring in 2.2). And even on rings, the 6% CHC are sometimes better than 50% CHD. I've written a small calculator to answer this question quickly - check out my signature.

Note that you need to take into account all buffs that you get during the fight: the Critical rune from Laws of Valor from a Crusader gives you 100% CHD, and you can get 6% CHC from a wizard with Conflagration, 10% from Bait the Trap if you're a DH, and 20% from Judgement-Resolved from a Crusader again. Gear and permanent buffs have a CHC cap of 75%, but temporary buffs (such as Resolved) go over the crit cap, which means many DHs are actually running around with close to 100% CHC in GRs, which is why CHD becomes extremely useful and mandatory on every slot possible as well.

if my math is correct....
100 x 50% x 500% = 250, 1:10 ratio
100 x 56% x 450% = 252, where cc>chd with regards to 1:10 ratio
100 x 44% x 550% = 242, where chd>cc with regards to 1:10 ratio

1:10 isnt exactly the most optimal but it's closest idea to go with, but a bit more cc is actually more beneficial?

if my math is correct.... 100 x 50% x 500% = 250, 1:10 ratio 100 x 56% x 450% = 252, where cc>chd with regards to 1:10 ratio 100 x 44% x 550% = 242, where chd>cc with regards to 1:10 ratio

1:10 isnt exactly the most optimal but it's closest idea to go with, but a bit more cc is actually more beneficial?

But comparing line 2 to line 1 you drop 50% CHD and gain 6% crit if you would gain only 5% crit (which paragon point wise equals in value) you would see a drop in dmg.

Thanks for the replies. I think the tiny loss in sheet DPS will definetely be overshadowed by me bringing myself to the 1:10 ratio now that I understand the math.

So, all said n done, you have all your paragon filled to say 400+ and you're looking at dumping points into more chc. You've got a lot of chd and adding more chc, even if unbalanced WILL cause you to apply that chd more often, no?

So in actuality, using the calculator it would be foolish of me, with both already maxed through paragon, to remove CHC just for the sake of hitting the 1:10 ratio. Right now I'm about 39/350. My only option would be to balance it through gear when possible.

You choose the affix which increases the total you have of that stat by the highest%, or if you want to be really lazy just choose whichever option gives you the highest total from this equation:

if my math is correct.... 100 x 50% x 500% = 250, 1:10 ratio 100 x 56% x 450% = 252, where cc>chd with regards to 1:10 ratio 100 x 44% x 550% = 242, where chd>cc with regards to 1:10 ratio

1:10 isnt exactly the most optimal but it's closest idea to go with, but a bit more cc is actually more beneficial?

you used 50% 500% (50+500/10 = 100 points), 56% 450% (56+450/10 = 101 points) 44% 550% (44+550/10 = 99 points). What you should try is:

You choose the affix which increases the total you have of that stat by the highest%, or if you want to be really lazy just choose whichever option gives you the highest total from this equation:

1 + CC*CD/10,000

Where CC and CD are larger than 1.

That equation is literally the rule represented as an equation. To get the highest yield from that equation you want to move towards the 1:10 ratio.

For example at 36 CC and 400 CHD, the ratio would indicate you are better off with 1 CC rather than 10 CHD.

Thanks for the replies. I think the tiny loss in sheet DPS will definetely be overshadowed by me bringing myself to the 1:10 ratio now that I understand the math.

The thing is that this should result in a sheet DPS increase rather than drop. (unless you are ofcourse counting in buffs which are not added in the sheet dps... one of the reason why the sheet number is rather worthless... That and the fact that half the game mechanics still ignore attack speed)

Its not though. This was my test: I unequipped gear until I could actually balance out chance and damage with paragon points alone. No buffs. At 32.2 chance to 322 damage I'm at 724k. Max my chance to 34 and I'm at 745k. Which makes sense using the formula above. The first setup yields 161 while the letters yields 170. I'm better off, since I can't possibly bring my damage up by dropping my chance, to just add chance. So I'm dependent on focusing on CHD on gear to try to come close to the ratio naturally.

And I just ran into another conundrum. I just got a decent HF ammy. I have a slot (attack speed which I don't want) I can roll in CHC to 10% or physical to 20%. It has 54% CHD. It's replacing a 8.5/63 ammy. Rolling 10% CHC makes it a very slight 5k better sheet DPS. Roll physical (I'm running a physical DH and 20% more will put me at 60% physical) and its a 154k drop off leaving me at 1,059K. Ignoring the passive I'm not sure if the elemental is better. Is the elemental damage literally 1.6x your base damage at 60%? Because if so that easily outweighs the slight boost to sheet DPS. That seems too simple though.

You are always better off with more, rather than less and balanced. 40/350 will be better than 35/350.

The rule is a simple guideline so you don't have to use a formula and have to choose between the two. You have a rorg with chc and one with chd, for example, the 1:10 ratio can ballpark which should be better.

One exception I can think of is almost irrelevant. While leveling or fresh 70, chd damage does very little for you unless you actually crit. Therefore, you usually build chc first.

As for the elemental % (or physical in this case): Yes +60% physical will simply make you deal 160% physical damage. You will however jump from 140% to 160% which calculates a bit different.

140 to 160% gives an effective DPS jump from 100% (original 140 value) to: 160/140*100% = 114% This indicates that picking up the 20% from your amu will grant you a DPS increase of 14% rather than the "20%" it says on the thing.

This principle is true for every single stat: The more you stack of a stat, the better other stats get. For CHC this can be explained by the logic that your attacks cannot crit twice, meaning that the more crit you have the less powerful this stat becomes compared to other stats (leading to the 1:10 ratio)

A general guideline for +%elemental damage is that it's the best stat there is untill you go over the +100%. By then the value of the stat will be approximately half of what it says on the tooltip.

PS: Just smiled a bit thinking of people who say computer games are bad for your brain and don't teach you anything :D.

So I took the damage formula and made a calculator last night to figure out this ammy. As noted above, the 20% physical is a 14% eDPS increase. The 10% CHC turned out to be a 15% increase so I went with that. Luckily I use only Cluster Arrow as my damage dealer so there weren't a bunch of variables to take into account. Just plus CA damage and plus Physical damage. I'm still torn though due to the fact that the physical will apply to every shot where the crit won't so I could see a valid argument for the Physical still being better.

The idealized ammy, as it turns out, would have rolled maximum CHC or Phys in place IAS (which I'm rolling out) and then I could have rolled one of those in place of the DEX as both beat out the damage increase from DEX.

Sorry for the pun in advance. So should I be skipping on CHC to maintain that 1:10 ratio? I've heard people note that getting to that ratio, even if it meant losing CHC in the process, made their sheet dps go up. I tried this with my DH by taking paragon out of crit chance but my sheet dps went down. Does staying at this ratio make a large difference to overall damage? To the point where I should ignore its effect on my sheet dps? I've never understood the math behind this ratio.

The 1:10 ratio is of importance when comparing crit chance WITH crit damage.

What the rule says is that if your crit chance is lower than the 1:10 ratio that crit chance is more valuable than CHD.

If in turn your CHD is below the 10:1 to crit chance then CHD is more valuable.

It's not that your DPS magically goes up when you hit this ratio, it simply means that it's most beneficial to keep close to this ratio.

Example: 40 paragon points (assume your crits deal 0% bonus damage and you have 0% crit by default, I know you have a base 50% CHD but ignore that for the example)

Crit chance gives 0.1% per point

CHD gives 1% per point.

If you put 30 points in CHC and 10 in CHD then you would have a 3% chance to deal 10% bonus damage = 0.3% bonus damage on average

20 in CHC and 20 in CHD you would have 2% chance to deal 20% bonus damage = 0.4% bonus damage

5 in CHC and 35 in CHD would give 0.5% to deal 35% bonus damage = 0.175% bonus damage

As you can see the 2-20% balance (= 1:10 ratio) grants the highest DPS

If your gear set is imbalanced you could end with 20% CHC but 400% CHD = 80% increased damage

While a better balanced set of the same value could have 30% CHC and 300% CHD = 90% increased damage

That's a whole 10% more damage gained from the same value items/paragon points by simply balancing them out.

It's a rule of thumb, but it should not be applied blindly. For example: if you have 40% CHC and 350% CHD, you should choose CHD over CHC on paragon - yes.

However, other than on amulet and paragon there's no stats where both stats roll equally high (i.e., 10% CHC/100% CHC or fractions of those). On gloves CHC is *always* better and a must-have because 10% CHC is better than 50% CHD all the time (exception: Broken Promises ring in 2.2). And even on rings, the 6% CHC are sometimes better than 50% CHD. I've written a small calculator to answer this question quickly - check out my signature.

Note that you need to take into account all buffs that you get during the fight: the Critical rune from Laws of Valor from a Crusader gives you 100% CHD, and you can get 6% CHC from a wizard with Conflagration, 10% from Bait the Trap if you're a DH, and 20% from Judgement-Resolved from a Crusader again. Gear and permanent buffs have a CHC cap of 75%, but temporary buffs (such as Resolved) go over the crit cap, which means many DHs are actually running around with close to 100% CHC in GRs, which is why CHD becomes extremely useful and mandatory on every slot possible as well.

if my math is correct....

100 x 50% x 500% = 250, 1:10 ratio

100 x 56% x 450% = 252, where cc>chd with regards to 1:10 ratio

100 x 44% x 550% = 242, where chd>cc with regards to 1:10 ratio

1:10 isnt exactly the most optimal but it's closest idea to go with, but a bit more cc is actually more beneficial?

But comparing line 2 to line 1 you drop 50% CHD and gain 6% crit if you would gain only 5% crit (which paragon point wise equals in value) you would see a drop in dmg.

Thanks for the replies. I think the tiny loss in sheet DPS will definetely be overshadowed by me bringing myself to the 1:10 ratio now that I understand the math.

So, all said n done, you have all your paragon filled to say 400+ and you're looking at dumping points into more chc. You've got a lot of chd and adding more chc, even if unbalanced WILL cause you to apply that chd more often, no?

WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816

Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505

DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606

Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610

What? Me worry?

So in actuality, using the calculator it would be foolish of me, with both already maxed through paragon, to remove CHC just for the sake of hitting the 1:10 ratio. Right now I'm about 39/350. My only option would be to balance it through gear when possible.

The 'rule' is complete and utter bullshit.

You choose the affix which increases the total you have of that stat by the highest%, or if you want to be really lazy just choose whichever option gives you the highest total from this equation:

1 + CC*CD/10,000

Where CC and CD are larger than 1.

you used 50% 500% (50+500/10 = 100 points), 56% 450% (56+450/10 = 101 points) 44% 550% (44+550/10 = 99 points). What you should try is:

99 points -> 49.5% CHC 495% CHD = 245 (49.5+495/10 = 99)

100 points -> 50% CHC 500% CHD = 250 (50+500/10 = 100)

101 points -> 50.5% CHC 505% CHD = 255 (50.5+505/10 = 101)

That equation is literally the rule represented as an equation. To get the highest yield from that equation you want to move towards the 1:10 ratio.

For example at 36 CC and 400 CHD, the ratio would indicate you are better off with 1 CC rather than 10 CHD.

36 CC & 400 CHD: equation yields 2.44

37 CC & 400 CHD: equation yields 2.48

36 CC & 410 CHD: equation yields 2.476

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Spiral-1401/hero/65250518

This rule is almost going to become a nonfactor with the new crit ring.

http://www.twitch.tv/szsoulzekThe thing is that this should result in a sheet DPS increase rather than drop. (unless you are ofcourse counting in buffs which are not added in the sheet dps... one of the reason why the sheet number is rather worthless... That and the fact that half the game mechanics still ignore attack speed)

Its not though. This was my test: I unequipped gear until I could actually balance out chance and damage with paragon points alone. No buffs. At 32.2 chance to 322 damage I'm at 724k. Max my chance to 34 and I'm at 745k. Which makes sense using the formula above. The first setup yields 161 while the letters yields 170. I'm better off, since I can't possibly bring my damage up by dropping my chance, to just add chance. So I'm dependent on focusing on CHD on gear to try to come close to the ratio naturally.

And I just ran into another conundrum. I just got a decent HF ammy. I have a slot (attack speed which I don't want) I can roll in CHC to 10% or physical to 20%. It has 54% CHD. It's replacing a 8.5/63 ammy. Rolling 10% CHC makes it a very slight 5k better sheet DPS. Roll physical (I'm running a physical DH and 20% more will put me at 60% physical) and its a 154k drop off leaving me at 1,059K. Ignoring the passive I'm not sure if the elemental is better. Is the elemental damage literally 1.6x your base damage at 60%? Because if so that easily outweighs the slight boost to sheet DPS. That seems too simple though.

You are always better off with more, rather than less and balanced. 40/350 will be better than 35/350.

The rule is a simple guideline so you don't have to use a formula and have to choose between the two. You have a rorg with chc and one with chd, for example, the 1:10 ratio can ballpark which should be better.

One exception I can think of is almost irrelevant. While leveling or fresh 70, chd damage does very little for you unless you actually crit. Therefore, you usually build chc first.

As for the elemental % (or physical in this case): Yes +60% physical will simply make you deal 160% physical damage. You will however jump from 140% to 160% which calculates a bit different.

140 to 160% gives an effective DPS jump from 100% (original 140 value) to: 160/140*100% = 114% This indicates that picking up the 20% from your amu will grant you a DPS increase of 14% rather than the "20%" it says on the thing.

This principle is true for every single stat: The more you stack of a stat, the better other stats get. For CHC this can be explained by the logic that your attacks cannot crit twice, meaning that the more crit you have the less powerful this stat becomes compared to other stats (leading to the 1:10 ratio)

A general guideline for +%elemental damage is that it's the best stat there is untill you go over the +100%. By then the value of the stat will be approximately half of what it says on the tooltip.

PS: Just smiled a bit thinking of people who say computer games are bad for your brain and don't teach you anything :D.

So I took the damage formula and made a calculator last night to figure out this ammy. As noted above, the 20% physical is a 14% eDPS increase. The 10% CHC turned out to be a 15% increase so I went with that. Luckily I use only Cluster Arrow as my damage dealer so there weren't a bunch of variables to take into account. Just plus CA damage and plus Physical damage. I'm still torn though due to the fact that the physical will apply to every shot where the crit won't so I could see a valid argument for the Physical still being better.

The idealized ammy, as it turns out, would have rolled maximum CHC or Phys in place IAS (which I'm rolling out) and then I could have rolled one of those in place of the DEX as both beat out the damage increase from DEX.

is there a way to import your character into d3planner? Manual entry is a bit of a hurdle for my motivation atm.

[stupid edit] ugh, there is an import/save tab. I'm an idiot, move along!

I'm not sure just how

criticalit ishue

hue

hue

http://www.twitch.tv/szsoulzek