But it might just make some sense considering they're probably not giving us anythingat all (!!!) for the next 6+ months (link).
I mean, I understand that the process to make changes to skills might be more complicated than we give them credit for, but not have anything planned at all is outright disgusting
I'm tellin ya.....this is marketing. I'm sure they have a timeline, and that timeline is set already. It's set to coincide with the marketing of the X-pack, I assure all of you this is why it's off the front burner. This would be a keen strategy to bring players back whom quit months ago, players that would never come back without an X-pac.
From a technical perspective, they're wanting to make sure that their itemization patch doesn't step on the X-pac's offerings to the game. It only makes sense and this would all happen much quicker if they weren't developing the console....just my opinion.
But it might just make some sense considering they're probably not giving us anythingat all (!!!) for the next 6+ months (link).
No, it doesn't make sense. They very clearly elaborated on what the D3 PC team is working on. It's not the console version. This whole "the console version is taking time away from my precious PC version and I AM A FUCKIN SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE GODDAMNIT" attitude is really, really, rubbing me the wrong way.
Console players are not secondary to you, and PC players are not secondary to console players. If you can't live with that fact without getting jealous every time the console game gets something before the PC game (or the PC game gets something before the console game) then you're just lying to yourself about how life works.
If you really believe that every update has to go to the PC version first, otherwise they're betraying you, then you're being far too self-important and egomaniacal for your own good.
As a moderator on this site I do not expect you to perpetuate untruths about them devoting the PC team to the console version. That's completely irresponsible.
I'd also quote from your link:
Although the developers are working on a large amount of content right now that will end up in a patch down the road, there is not a specific patch in current development.
So they're working on a lot of things... it's just that those things haven't been formalized into a patch rollout. "Not working on itemization" is simply a misnomer, at least as far as the link you provided. As always patience is a virtue, and this crowd seems to be going the SimCity route when it comes to virtues.
Under the "Why No Content Patch Soon?" heading, I point you to the following:
I bring this up since we knew the Diablo dev team was having a similar meeting at the same time, and that they’re all hard at work on some Diablo thing. And we know it’s not the console since that’s all but finished, and we know it’s not Diablo 3 patches… so it’s not real hard to figure that it’s the expansion.
The console version is all but finished and they're not diverting resources to that. What they *are* doing is attempting to get some kind of expansion teaser stuff for BlizzCon. You can be outraged that they're doing that, but claiming that the PC team is "working on the console" is just wildly irresponsible. It's clear from your link that they're working on a ton of content for "a future patch" and that they're trying to get some kind of preview stuff up for the D3X for BlizzCon.
Being that BlizzCon is only once-per-year and that the expansion will likely hit the shelves before next BlizzCon this is the ONLY big opportunity to preview to us what they're thinking and that is historically what BlizzCon has been used for. It shouldn't be that shocking that they temporarily delayed patches to get that done.
If other fansites can deliver accurate perspectives on these things I expect that from this one too. It's funny because incgamers, of late, hasn't been full of anti-Blizzard rhetoric and such. I'm not saying anything other than feeding the trolls will cause DFans to become a troll haven.
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with what Blizzard does, but keep it within the realm of being informed. If we're just going to do away with the "informed" part of the discussion then this place is going to quickly turn into the official forums. Is that really what we want? Not I.
The console version is all but finished and they're not diverting resources to that.
You don't know that.
You have no idea what they're doing.
What we do know as fact is that 18+ months to improve those woeful items is a considerably long period of time for something so *seemingly "easy" to do.
I would submit a term I use to get my employees to do their jobs. "Sense of urgency".
Where....oh where is that in this realm? Itemization is a CRITICAL flaw by most players estimation. Where is the sense of urgency to fix this? We saw it briefly via 1.04 when they displayed a serious sense of urgency to offer us some improvement toward items.
The fix was nominal yet left the players grateful, yet, thinking a more thorough follow-up would ensue.
That was a year ago. Follow-up never happened. The sense of urgency is entirely absent.
"the console version is taking time away from my precious PC version and I AM A FUCKIN SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE GODDAMNIT" attitude is really, really, rubbing me the wrong way.
I don't want them to fix the game for me. I want them to fix it for the good of the game. There is no selfish notion behind my protestations. D3 is great on it's basic gameplay foundation. A sense of urgency is needed to make that gameplay count for something. Without items, Diablo is weak.
My opinion, the developers aren't working on D3 itemization as such. They're likely done with that, or at least in part. If they aren't being put to work on the console, than they're working on the X-pac. The devs are getting the X-pac items in order to align with the 1.09 patch so that everything jives.
Both of those make Bliz money, fixing items now does not. Nothing exclusive for Bliz, all companies would do this. It's just sad that this game rots and withers with time.
If you read the incgamers article you would not be saying that.
A guy who does news on a fansite and who just got done visiting Blizzard HQ reported that the console version is "all but done."
Dare I say that he has far better knowledge of this than you do? Because, frankly, he does. Unless you have some inside sources or something, I'm going to take his word at face value that the console version is winding up the development cycle and NOT diverting PC resources.
I'm not asking you to love Blizzard. I'm asking you to stop being ********** and throwing FACTS the fuck out the window because they're inconvenient to your "THE CONSOLE IS TAKING OVER" position.
shaggy, it's not about getting something before PC or even getting better features. It's also not about "making the PC team work for the console version of D3". I think you missed my point.
Take my post for what it is: a criticism on not having "anything planned for the next 6 months", about anything at all. If they said something like "we have the usual stuff, minor quality of life changes and tons of skill balancing", I'd be pretty happy.
And look, I'm not even mentioning itemization there. I certainly understand why a big change to itemization can take so long (to me that's directly tied to the rewards of playing and the influence of the AH on the game), much more than "the sad state of items". I don't agree that "nothing has been done for itemization" or "it will take 2 years to do something". Quite a lot has changed from day 1.
What I don't understand is how skill balance or something like making secondary quests have decent rewards fits into that. The changes needed are pretty obvious there. They know what they have to do, just look at what they did for some skills in the past few patches.
There's absolutely nothing preventing them from nerfing the be-all-end-all spirit generator for Monks Thunderclap, which not only overshadows other Spirit Generators, but most other mobility-focused skills for that class. A class clearly designed to have multiple ways of "sticking" to enemies almost didn't use any of those because Thunderclap is that good. 15% base bonus attackspeed, teleport and decent AoE all in one skill. They could nerf the teleport range by half and take the bonus attackspeed down to 5% and most people would still use it.
Information and truth are not related to feelings, that's also why my post started with "it might just make some sense" and not "he's telling the truth!!!". Notice how my post made reference to Indimix's words as well, not Bleu's (in the sense that it doesn't seems like Blizzard's current priority is improving D3 on pc).
And my current feeling is that they are not focusing all their efforts in improving D3, as they promised over and over again in the past months (specially when the game director changed). Those were my thoughts with that post
If you read the incgamers article you would not be saying that.
A guy who does news on a fansite and who just got done visiting Blizzard HQ reported that the console version is "all but done."
Dare I say that he has far better knowledge of this than you do? Because, frankly, he does. Unless you have some inside sources or something, I'm going to take his word at face value that the console version is winding up the development cycle and NOT diverting PC resources.
I'm not asking you to love Blizzard. I'm asking you to stop being fucktarded and throwing FACTS the fuck out the window because they're inconvenient to your "THE CONSOLE IS TAKING OVER" position.
None of this moves me, sadly. I'd like to believe you. I believe they've been working on D3 console for the last 12 months or so. Now, now they're probably working on the X-pac.
Honestly, how long should it take for a dedicated group of highly paid professional game designers to fix items that are already made, they just need improved?
How long?
16-18+ months tells me that they're not dedicating 100% of their capabilities. Whatever it is they're doing/have been doing, it certainly wasn't working furiously on a great item patch.
Since the paltry 1.04 patch, I've since witnessed a major highway overpass bridge begun and finished here in Indianapolis. I know they worked hard on it because it got done. It's done, they did it.
How 'bout them d3 items bro? They done?
No?
Wait....what ...no, hold on. Y'all tellin me some motherfuckers built a giant god damn bridge in less time than it took for some highly paid nerd mother fuckers to create fictional swords and shit? No way........
@ruksak: I tend to agree with you that it's hard to believe that console development has no (negative) impact on the PC version. However, keep in mind that the D3 PC team is really really small (as far as I can spot from Flux's post it's just a handful of people). And we know for sure that they're working on the x-pac, and they probably didn't start yesterday.
@shaggy: Props for staying with Blizzard on that one. I really have a hard time. Just one thing to keep in mind though is that Flux (the IncGamers guy) made a lot of "predictions" and "implications". Not all of what he wrote was said at the meeting, and some of it is quite optimistic guesstimate (x-pac debut at Blizzcon).
My $0.02: I mentioned multiple times (on this forum) that I never expected any itemization changes before the x-pac. It just doesn't make sense to publish an item overhaul and then re-invent the wheel again in an expansion. However, what bothers me is that they published lots of info in the first few months of 2013 about itemization and their plans, created a huge buzz and made everyone excited. And now they tell us "you'll get nothing until Blizzcon". That's just a slap in the face. Like I said, I didn't expect an itemization patch before the x-pac, and I certainly didn't expect itemization changes at all before the end of this year. As someone who worked in software development I can even understand why these things take so long. But none of this can't change the fact that I feel dismissed.
It feels like you wrote a letter to Santa Clause asking for that big truck, just got a little car, and you realize that you'll have to wait another 365 days to get what you really wanted. You might know why it's that way, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it takes time to get over it.
Allow me to post just some of the features the console version will have at launch:
Crafted items now tailor their stats more to the class that has crafted them. Developers feel this is one of the more important changes coming to Consoles
White and Blue items drop far less
Artisan upgrades cost less gold
Vendors are much more likely to sell Rare gear
Class items are far more likely to drop for the class being played
The 5-6 fansite attendees at Blizzard HQ managed to find a total of 3-4 items Legendary items on Act 1 Nightmare in one hour
Initially the Console version was also supposed to be online-only, but Blizzard's research showed a huge part of the Console population didn't have an Internet connection
There are anti-dupe mechanisms in place, but Blizzard knows they'll eventually be overcome
There are some concerns about Trading in the Console version, because of the lack of Auction House
Now, can anyone tell me that the fact that we have no idea when (or if!) some of these will make an appearance on the PC version doesn't feel a little bit like a kick in the teeth?
Maka, this is what I'm talkin about. The D3 PC devs have been busy working with the console team to keep the two genres on-par.
Their devs have been working on the new PC patch by doing it for the console first, period. It's so obvious. The changes you listed above will be seen in the PC 1.09 patch, I assure you.
I feel like I've been standing in line for months only to watch other people be allowed to cut me in line.
Allow me to post just some of the features the console version will have at launch:
Crafted items now tailor their stats more to the class that has crafted them. Developers feel this is one of the more important changes coming to Consoles
White and Blue items drop far less
Artisan upgrades cost less gold
Vendors are much more likely to sell Rare gear
Class items are far more likely to drop for the class being played
The 5-6 fansite attendees at Blizzard HQ managed to find a total of 3-4 items Legendary items on Act 1 Nightmare in one hour
Initially the Console version was also supposed to be online-only, but Blizzard's research showed a huge part of the Console population didn't have an Internet connection
There are anti-dupe mechanisms in place, but Blizzard knows they'll eventually be overcome
There are some concerns about Trading in the Console version, because of the lack of Auction House
Now, can anyone tell me that the fact that we have no idea when (or if!) some of these will make an appearance on the PC version doesn't feel a little bit like a kick in the teeth?
I know everyones sad about that loot patch not happening for a very long time.
But, could they just let someone tweak the skills while everyone waits? More then half of the skill choices in D3 make no sense or are just totally useless. I know a full item overhaul will take awhile but tweaking numbers on skills seems like a over nighter.
Honestly, how long should it take for a dedicated group of highly paid professional game designers to fix items that are already made, they just need improved?
How long?
16-18+ months tells me that they're not dedicating 100% of their capabilities. Whatever it is they're doing/have been doing, it certainly wasn't working furiously on a great item patch.
Since the paltry 1.04 patch, I've since witnessed a major highway overpass bridge begun and finished here in Indianapolis. I know they worked hard on it because it got done. It's done, they did it.
How 'bout them d3 items bro? They done?
No?
Wait....what ...no, hold on. Y'all tellin me some motherfuckers built a giant god damn bridge in less time than it took for some highly paid nerd mother fuckers to create fictional swords and shit? No way........
Allow me to post just some of the features the console version will have at launch:
Crafted items now tailor their stats more to the class that has crafted them. Developers feel this is one of the more important changes coming to Consoles
White and Blue items drop far less
Artisan upgrades cost less gold
Vendors are much more likely to sell Rare gear
Class items are far more likely to drop for the class being played
The 5-6 fansite attendees at Blizzard HQ managed to find a total of 3-4 items Legendary items on Act 1 Nightmare in one hour
Initially the Console version was also supposed to be online-only, but Blizzard's research showed a huge part of the Console population didn't have an Internet connection
There are anti-dupe mechanisms in place, but Blizzard knows they'll eventually be overcome
There are some concerns about Trading in the Console version, because of the lack of Auction House
Now, can anyone tell me that the fact that we have no idea when (or if!) some of these will make an appearance on the PC version doesn't feel a little bit like a kick in the teeth?
I can answer that
The bolded ones obviously can't simply be "added" to PC because they must take into account the impact on the AH. Love or hate the AH, you simply can't deny that the current dev team has to take into account the impact of changes on that.
Crafted items are paramount on console because there's no AH, otherwise gearing for MP 5+ would be impossible. Same goes for Legendary items drop ratio. Higher chance of seeing class items would mean that the AH would be flooded (!) with Barbarian items, and classes like DHs would have an even harder time gearing up. It is directly related to bad class balance.
The underlined changeswould simply not change anything given the current state of the game on PC. Less white/blues? Not a huge change. Artisan upgrades costing less gold? Not a big deal given the amount of gold on the pc economy (AH). Vendors more likely to sell Rare gear? Again, related to the AH.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a major supporter of an offline mode and a self-found mode (no AH) on the PC. I'd friggin LOVE to have that., and al the features those things would allow (mods, lan, more freedom in general). But we all now they're not changing that now.
My gut tells me PC development has stopped as far as "free" content updates like patch 1.0.7 and 1.0.8 type stuff. I think the PC team is now full steam ahead on making the first expansion. We won't hear a peep from them until they are ready to announce it(likely at blizzcon) and will likely release it some 8-12 months after blizzcon is over. Holiday 2014 is my prediction for the absolute soonest we will see the itemization changes in the expansion.(yes, i think this change will not happen until an expansion comes out when they can basically 'reset' the AH economy somewhat.) I'm sure we'll get a few bug fix / minor fix patches here and there, but I sincerly doubt we will see any new content for the game for a long, long time, on the order of 1.5 years or more.
Don't hold your breath, Blizzard's priority is not D3 right now, at least not D3 for PC anyways...
Considering Blizzards PC Diablo 3 teams main focus is D3 for PC, that statements just dumb.
But it might just make some sense considering they're probably not giving us anythingat all (!!!) for the next 6+ months (link).
I mean, I understand that the process to make changes to skills might be more complicated than we give them credit for, but not have anything planned at all is outright disgusting
Ask anyone here, I've been an avid defender of past Blizzard actions (even when I didn't like them, I understood why they were being made). But I simply cannot understand or support this decision. The console version, future patches and expansion will have to make up for so much if we get nothing for the next 6+ months.
What are you talking about "not have anything planned"? Itemization is planned. Do you realize how fundamentally a full itemization overhaul will effect the core of the game?
We are talking brand new affixes for all items, re-done current affixes, completely new unique affixes and set bonuses for over 200 legendaries, deleting and re-making every single texture / mesh on every legendary x10 because of classes / genders so they can be dye-able. Re-figuring every drop rate (each legendary has a different drop rate) as well as drop rates of every other item type. Completely re-doing affix ranges on items.
And this is just what we've been told so far. For all we know, targeted legendaries / new loot tables for named mobs as well as increased difficulty of those mobs / brand new items could be in the works as well.
And don't forget, ALL of this has to be excruciatingly tested, re-tested, iterated on, scrapped and tested again. All those brand new 'game changing' unique affixes for each legendary? If they just half ass them like they did in 1.04, we'll get exactly what we have now; Some really cool idea, but none of them really work out.
We also have no idea if they plan on tweaking / downright changing class skills. There could very well be a +skill affix put into the game, maybe just on legendaries, that could give a class a skill from another class, and so on.
So it's not just numbers that need to be tweaked. It's a LOT of shit. I want it here now just like you, but everyone needs to stop acting like children.
IMO, 1 month is more than enough to rebalance/rethink some of the skill runes that are just not used by anyone with internet/brain.
Some time ago I remembered that they showed us a chart with skill usage for a particular rune of the Barbarian, they can use that to see what skills are being used most, and which ones are gathering dust... and then analyze why is that happening.
Why aren't they working on that?, marketing, money, business.. who knows.
What we know, the only fact we have is that things can be done way before Blizzcon, and they wont do shit.
The only problem I have with what you said is regarding the very first bullet-point. Since high-end crafting is BoA, I don't see how the AH factors into it. Unless you mean "more good crafts --> less AH purchases --> less RMAH purchases".
I didn't really consider only high-end BoA crafting when I saw that. I thought of all the items crafted (weapons, ilvl 62 armor).
Even if it was just high-end BoA, I think we already have some degree of control over it, by selecting the mainstat the item can roll. Maybe they're just applying that rule to all other recipes on console.
But my real line of thought was: if they make getting great items too easily via crafting (by limiting the rolls), they might be removing the possibility of anyone buying anything on that gear slot on the AH (hence the AH impact theory) - kinda the same way some Legendaries set the bar too high for rares when they were changed.
The reason shoulders, chests, amulets, gloves and bracers still sell on the AH is because to craft really amazing high-end BiS of those, you need an insanely high amount of gold (which the average player doesn't have).
Ah, and higher low-level legendaries drop rate. Come on, that wouldn't make a dent on high-level trading. But it WOULD make the levelling journey way more enjoyable.
I think they don't wanna change that because of how they wanna change legendaries (making them roll affixes related to the lvl that you get them).
Otherwise, I'd love to see more legendaries when leveling up new characters, even though some of them are quite powerful for the lvl they are found (some are insanely OP compared to what's available at that lvl).
What are you talking about "not have anything planned"? Itemization is planned. Do you realize how fundamentally a full itemization overhaul will effect the core of the game?
Not have anything planned "for the next 6+ months". Itemization isn't planned for that time period. Don't take my sentence out of context
As I said after the post you quoted, I meant mostly quality of life changes and skill balancing, which to me adds a lot more fun to the gameplay than the rewards themselves - the items.
So it's not just numbers that need to be tweaked. It's a LOT of shit. I want it here now just like you, but everyone needs to stop acting like children.
I never said I want itemization naow. ruksak said that
I just want to know that we're gonna get 2 or 3 patches in the next 6 months, even if they only have minor changes and even if they're 2 months appart.
Knowing that we're not gonna see any skill changes for 6+ months (because there are no "plans" to do the obvious changes some of them could use) just breaks my heart.
What are you talking about "not have anything planned"? Itemization is planned. Do you realize how fundamentally a full itemization overhaul will effect the core of the game?
Not have anything planned "for the next 6+ months". Itemization isn't planned for that time period. Don't take my sentence out of context
As I said after the post you quoted, I meant mostly quality of life changes and skill balancing, which to me adds a lot more fun to the gameplay than the rewards themselves - the items.
I get that, but realize if you don't care about the items, you're in the minority. The overwhelming majority of player's final goal is to get better items - that's ultimately why they play. I know with me there's a huge list of reasons why I love to play; The artwork, the combat, the different skills, the environment ect, but if there was zero reward, kind of like it is now with really bad items, then I'd eventually stop playing.
What you're wanting is further content in every sense. I understand that, but you need to understand that all the problems need to be fixed before they can really move forward, and the biggest problem is left - itemization. I'd MUCH rather them put almost their entire team into fixing and improving the core concept of the game, loot hunting and loot in general, then work on little things here and there, and take longer to finish loot 2.0.
I'm tellin ya.....this is marketing. I'm sure they have a timeline, and that timeline is set already. It's set to coincide with the marketing of the X-pack, I assure all of you this is why it's off the front burner. This would be a keen strategy to bring players back whom quit months ago, players that would never come back without an X-pac.
From a technical perspective, they're wanting to make sure that their itemization patch doesn't step on the X-pac's offerings to the game. It only makes sense and this would all happen much quicker if they weren't developing the console....just my opinion.
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No, it doesn't make sense. They very clearly elaborated on what the D3 PC team is working on. It's not the console version. This whole "the console version is taking time away from my precious PC version and I AM A FUCKIN SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE GODDAMNIT" attitude is really, really, rubbing me the wrong way.
Console players are not secondary to you, and PC players are not secondary to console players. If you can't live with that fact without getting jealous every time the console game gets something before the PC game (or the PC game gets something before the console game) then you're just lying to yourself about how life works.
If you really believe that every update has to go to the PC version first, otherwise they're betraying you, then you're being far too self-important and egomaniacal for your own good.
As a moderator on this site I do not expect you to perpetuate untruths about them devoting the PC team to the console version. That's completely irresponsible.
I'd also quote from your link:
So they're working on a lot of things... it's just that those things haven't been formalized into a patch rollout. "Not working on itemization" is simply a misnomer, at least as far as the link you provided. As always patience is a virtue, and this crowd seems to be going the SimCity route when it comes to virtues.
http://diablo.incgam...mit-mega-report
Under the "Why No Content Patch Soon?" heading, I point you to the following:
The console version is all but finished and they're not diverting resources to that. What they *are* doing is attempting to get some kind of expansion teaser stuff for BlizzCon. You can be outraged that they're doing that, but claiming that the PC team is "working on the console" is just wildly irresponsible. It's clear from your link that they're working on a ton of content for "a future patch" and that they're trying to get some kind of preview stuff up for the D3X for BlizzCon.
Being that BlizzCon is only once-per-year and that the expansion will likely hit the shelves before next BlizzCon this is the ONLY big opportunity to preview to us what they're thinking and that is historically what BlizzCon has been used for. It shouldn't be that shocking that they temporarily delayed patches to get that done.
If other fansites can deliver accurate perspectives on these things I expect that from this one too. It's funny because incgamers, of late, hasn't been full of anti-Blizzard rhetoric and such. I'm not saying anything other than feeding the trolls will cause DFans to become a troll haven.
There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with what Blizzard does, but keep it within the realm of being informed. If we're just going to do away with the "informed" part of the discussion then this place is going to quickly turn into the official forums. Is that really what we want? Not I.
You don't know that.
You have no idea what they're doing.
What we do know as fact is that 18+ months to improve those woeful items is a considerably long period of time for something so *seemingly "easy" to do.
I would submit a term I use to get my employees to do their jobs. "Sense of urgency".
Where....oh where is that in this realm? Itemization is a CRITICAL flaw by most players estimation. Where is the sense of urgency to fix this? We saw it briefly via 1.04 when they displayed a serious sense of urgency to offer us some improvement toward items.
The fix was nominal yet left the players grateful, yet, thinking a more thorough follow-up would ensue.
That was a year ago. Follow-up never happened. The sense of urgency is entirely absent.
I don't want them to fix the game for me. I want them to fix it for the good of the game. There is no selfish notion behind my protestations. D3 is great on it's basic gameplay foundation. A sense of urgency is needed to make that gameplay count for something. Without items, Diablo is weak.
My opinion, the developers aren't working on D3 itemization as such. They're likely done with that, or at least in part. If they aren't being put to work on the console, than they're working on the X-pac. The devs are getting the X-pac items in order to align with the 1.09 patch so that everything jives.
Both of those make Bliz money, fixing items now does not. Nothing exclusive for Bliz, all companies would do this. It's just sad that this game rots and withers with time.
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If you read the incgamers article you would not be saying that.
A guy who does news on a fansite and who just got done visiting Blizzard HQ reported that the console version is "all but done."
Dare I say that he has far better knowledge of this than you do? Because, frankly, he does. Unless you have some inside sources or something, I'm going to take his word at face value that the console version is winding up the development cycle and NOT diverting PC resources.
I'm not asking you to love Blizzard. I'm asking you to stop being ********** and throwing FACTS the fuck out the window because they're inconvenient to your "THE CONSOLE IS TAKING OVER" position.
Take my post for what it is: a criticism on not having "anything planned for the next 6 months", about anything at all. If they said something like "we have the usual stuff, minor quality of life changes and tons of skill balancing", I'd be pretty happy.
And look, I'm not even mentioning itemization there. I certainly understand why a big change to itemization can take so long (to me that's directly tied to the rewards of playing and the influence of the AH on the game), much more than "the sad state of items". I don't agree that "nothing has been done for itemization" or "it will take 2 years to do something". Quite a lot has changed from day 1.
What I don't understand is how skill balance or something like making secondary quests have decent rewards fits into that. The changes needed are pretty obvious there. They know what they have to do, just look at what they did for some skills in the past few patches.
There's absolutely nothing preventing them from nerfing the be-all-end-all spirit generator for Monks Thunderclap, which not only overshadows other Spirit Generators, but most other mobility-focused skills for that class. A class clearly designed to have multiple ways of "sticking" to enemies almost didn't use any of those because Thunderclap is that good. 15% base bonus attackspeed, teleport and decent AoE all in one skill. They could nerf the teleport range by half and take the bonus attackspeed down to 5% and most people would still use it.
Information and truth are not related to feelings, that's also why my post started with "it might just make some sense" and not "he's telling the truth!!!". Notice how my post made reference to Indimix's words as well, not Bleu's (in the sense that it doesn't seems like Blizzard's current priority is improving D3 on pc).
And my current feeling is that they are not focusing all their efforts in improving D3, as they promised over and over again in the past months (specially when the game director changed). Those were my thoughts with that post
None of this moves me, sadly. I'd like to believe you. I believe they've been working on D3 console for the last 12 months or so. Now, now they're probably working on the X-pac.
Honestly, how long should it take for a dedicated group of highly paid professional game designers to fix items that are already made, they just need improved?
How long?
16-18+ months tells me that they're not dedicating 100% of their capabilities. Whatever it is they're doing/have been doing, it certainly wasn't working furiously on a great item patch.
Since the paltry 1.04 patch, I've since witnessed a major highway overpass bridge begun and finished here in Indianapolis. I know they worked hard on it because it got done. It's done, they did it.
How 'bout them d3 items bro? They done?
No?
Wait....what ...no, hold on. Y'all tellin me some motherfuckers built a giant god damn bridge in less time than it took for some highly paid nerd mother fuckers to create fictional swords and shit? No way........
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@ruksak: I tend to agree with you that it's hard to believe that console development has no (negative) impact on the PC version. However, keep in mind that the D3 PC team is really really small (as far as I can spot from Flux's post it's just a handful of people). And we know for sure that they're working on the x-pac, and they probably didn't start yesterday.
@shaggy: Props for staying with Blizzard on that one. I really have a hard time. Just one thing to keep in mind though is that Flux (the IncGamers guy) made a lot of "predictions" and "implications". Not all of what he wrote was said at the meeting, and some of it is quite optimistic guesstimate (x-pac debut at Blizzcon).
My $0.02: I mentioned multiple times (on this forum) that I never expected any itemization changes before the x-pac. It just doesn't make sense to publish an item overhaul and then re-invent the wheel again in an expansion. However, what bothers me is that they published lots of info in the first few months of 2013 about itemization and their plans, created a huge buzz and made everyone excited. And now they tell us "you'll get nothing until Blizzcon". That's just a slap in the face. Like I said, I didn't expect an itemization patch before the x-pac, and I certainly didn't expect itemization changes at all before the end of this year. As someone who worked in software development I can even understand why these things take so long. But none of this can't change the fact that I feel dismissed.
It feels like you wrote a letter to Santa Clause asking for that big truck, just got a little car, and you realize that you'll have to wait another 365 days to get what you really wanted. You might know why it's that way, but it doesn't diminish the fact that it takes time to get over it.
Maka, this is what I'm talkin about. The D3 PC devs have been busy working with the console team to keep the two genres on-par.
Their devs have been working on the new PC patch by doing it for the console first, period. It's so obvious. The changes you listed above will be seen in the PC 1.09 patch, I assure you.
I feel like I've been standing in line for months only to watch other people be allowed to cut me in line.
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QFT.
But, could they just let someone tweak the skills while everyone waits? More then half of the skill choices in D3 make no sense or are just totally useless. I know a full item overhaul will take awhile but tweaking numbers on skills seems like a over nighter.
LOL! Omg you're funny.
The bolded ones obviously can't simply be "added" to PC because they must take into account the impact on the AH. Love or hate the AH, you simply can't deny that the current dev team has to take into account the impact of changes on that.
Crafted items are paramount on console because there's no AH, otherwise gearing for MP 5+ would be impossible. Same goes for Legendary items drop ratio. Higher chance of seeing class items would mean that the AH would be flooded (!) with Barbarian items, and classes like DHs would have an even harder time gearing up. It is directly related to bad class balance.
The underlined changes would simply not change anything given the current state of the game on PC. Less white/blues? Not a huge change. Artisan upgrades costing less gold? Not a big deal given the amount of gold on the pc economy (AH). Vendors more likely to sell Rare gear? Again, related to the AH.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a major supporter of an offline mode and a self-found mode (no AH) on the PC. I'd friggin LOVE to have that., and al the features those things would allow (mods, lan, more freedom in general). But we all now they're not changing that now.
What are you talking about "not have anything planned"? Itemization is planned. Do you realize how fundamentally a full itemization overhaul will effect the core of the game?
We are talking brand new affixes for all items, re-done current affixes, completely new unique affixes and set bonuses for over 200 legendaries, deleting and re-making every single texture / mesh on every legendary x10 because of classes / genders so they can be dye-able. Re-figuring every drop rate (each legendary has a different drop rate) as well as drop rates of every other item type. Completely re-doing affix ranges on items.
And this is just what we've been told so far. For all we know, targeted legendaries / new loot tables for named mobs as well as increased difficulty of those mobs / brand new items could be in the works as well.
And don't forget, ALL of this has to be excruciatingly tested, re-tested, iterated on, scrapped and tested again. All those brand new 'game changing' unique affixes for each legendary? If they just half ass them like they did in 1.04, we'll get exactly what we have now; Some really cool idea, but none of them really work out.
We also have no idea if they plan on tweaking / downright changing class skills. There could very well be a +skill affix put into the game, maybe just on legendaries, that could give a class a skill from another class, and so on.
So it's not just numbers that need to be tweaked. It's a LOT of shit. I want it here now just like you, but everyone needs to stop acting like children.
Some time ago I remembered that they showed us a chart with skill usage for a particular rune of the Barbarian, they can use that to see what skills are being used most, and which ones are gathering dust... and then analyze why is that happening.
Why aren't they working on that?, marketing, money, business.. who knows.
What we know, the only fact we have is that things can be done way before Blizzcon, and they wont do shit.
Even if it was just high-end BoA, I think we already have some degree of control over it, by selecting the mainstat the item can roll. Maybe they're just applying that rule to all other recipes on console.
But my real line of thought was: if they make getting great items too easily via crafting (by limiting the rolls), they might be removing the possibility of anyone buying anything on that gear slot on the AH (hence the AH impact theory) - kinda the same way some Legendaries set the bar too high for rares when they were changed.
The reason shoulders, chests, amulets, gloves and bracers still sell on the AH is because to craft really amazing high-end BiS of those, you need an insanely high amount of gold (which the average player doesn't have).
I think they don't wanna change that because of how they wanna change legendaries (making them roll affixes related to the lvl that you get them).
Otherwise, I'd love to see more legendaries when leveling up new characters, even though some of them are quite powerful for the lvl they are found (some are insanely OP compared to what's available at that lvl).
As I said after the post you quoted, I meant mostly quality of life changes and skill balancing, which to me adds a lot more fun to the gameplay than the rewards themselves - the items.
I never said I want itemization naow. ruksak said that
I just want to know that we're gonna get 2 or 3 patches in the next 6 months, even if they only have minor changes and even if they're 2 months appart.
Knowing that we're not gonna see any skill changes for 6+ months (because there are no "plans" to do the obvious changes some of them could use) just breaks my heart.
I get that, but realize if you don't care about the items, you're in the minority. The overwhelming majority of player's final goal is to get better items - that's ultimately why they play. I know with me there's a huge list of reasons why I love to play; The artwork, the combat, the different skills, the environment ect, but if there was zero reward, kind of like it is now with really bad items, then I'd eventually stop playing.
What you're wanting is further content in every sense. I understand that, but you need to understand that all the problems need to be fixed before they can really move forward, and the biggest problem is left - itemization. I'd MUCH rather them put almost their entire team into fixing and improving the core concept of the game, loot hunting and loot in general, then work on little things here and there, and take longer to finish loot 2.0.
That's..... exactly what I said.
Plox 2 read all post b4 reply kthx
Mmhh.. no, you said and I quote: "What you're wanting is further content in every sense", when what Zero said was that he wanted stuff fixed.