The problem is ""diablo has never been about modding"" is 100% true. I think you're not understand what Im really saying. Starcraft, has always been about modding, as blizzard has supported it with tools, same goes for warcraft. This is also true of world of warcraft with addons. However, blizzard has never supported mods for diablo. In fact you were technically (which I use loosely) not allowed to modify the client. This is what I mean about diablo has never been about modding (from blizzards view) So that statement is not "stupid" by any means. (and If you read what I already said, I can easily see how some addons can help) I also can totally understand why people would want mods, and how mods made diablo 2 a lot funner for some, but that does not change that fact that the diablo series (from blizzards view) has never been about modding.
Its funny how Bashiok's statement disregard the fact that your new Diablo game has switched genre to MMO. Silly you, didn't notice? Your previous games did not support modding, but allowed it, and from it many things grew, like so many other games have modding communities growing in the dark and every single peasant would not have the faintest clue as to how much of an impact and a difference all this modding in any game has done, how many people it brought in to new things, and how many ideas it brought to life. No, you just have these people bashing modding, instead. Beautiful.
I don't really care what they come up with, Diablo has switched genre and has such, does not allow modding. (don't bother me with UI "mods", why are they even called mods is beyond me).
And the genre switch is really the whole travesty here.
If modding wasn't done in Diablo 2 you would see twice less people play it. It just makes the game much more enjoyable and different.
I would "see" the same amount of people play it, as you can only mod single player.
but like I said, the quote of "diablo has never been about modding" is from blizzards point of view (not ours). They have never ment diablo to be modded, we did that on our own, so there was never a reason to think they would let us now. (trust me as a programmer I would be all over it if we had some form of API) but we dont, and I totally understand that.
If we're going to talk about what diablo 3 is to blizzard, it's money. Yeah people can be passionate about their work, but they're running a business and selling a product, the goal is that they make a profit. With that said, I'd rather worry about what diablo has meant to me.
And yeah players went and modded the game in the past, but they weren't hunted down and banned as far as I understand, much to the contrary they like to boast that blizzard plays their mods. It's new and different in the fact that we're now looking to ban people now, the same people that have breathed new life into old games and influenced major aspects of the diablo universe even today.
but like I said, the quote of "diablo has never been about modding" is from blizzards point of view (not ours)
The one that matters less.
It's the one of the company who is maken the game in the first place. We made the mods, it was never supported. It should never have been expected for them to add something they never wanted to add in the first place. Its not how they see their game, we know blizzard wants to make its fans happy, but at the same time, it wont be their game if they add things they dont feel are appropriate for their game.
I would "see" the same amount of people play it, as you can only mod single player.
What, so you don't see them, they don't matter?
Don't matter in what respect? to me as another player, no. If im playing online, how would people playing by themselves no longer playing effect me, or anyone else playing online at all?
The debate here isnt about if mods extended the single player gameplay of diablo 2, we know it did, but the community did that, not blizzard.
Do I think blizzard should jump on the oppertunity to allow the community to extend the life of its own game for free basically (well not free due to dev time) yes of course. Its a win/win. However, like I said, this is not what they want for their game, its not what they have EVER envisioned for their game. Blizzard has made games we love, im going to trust them.
...your new Diablo game has switched genre to MMO...
Please explain to me how a 1 to 4-player game is MMO. The only thing in the game resembling any Massive Multiplayer is the Auction House, which is a. Optional and b. Indirect.
It's new and different in the fact that we're now looking to ban people now, the same people that have breathed new life into old games and influenced major aspects of the diablo universe even today.
Do you know anyone who purchased a new copy of Diablo II just to play a mod? I doubt it. I'm sure a handful exist somewhere, but nothing significant.
However, the real issue with modding and emulation is: OFFLINE PLAY. If you've done any research online, you would know that the client can already be downloaded. With modding and emulation, you've just opened up the door to Pirating, which obviously Blizzard is going to avoid at all costs. Just a simple fact, and if I was a business that spent this long producing something, I wouldn't want anyone getting it for free by any means.
My gripe here is more about the lack of addons, since it is an online game. One of jay's arguments concerning not adding support for UI addons is that players ran away with wow over the years through the use of addons to the point where blizzard has assimilated many commonly used addons into game functionality, but looking at wow people are so addicted to that sht it's sad. Millions of people like it enough to dish out money monthly.
I understand that this is diablo we're talking about, not wow. But given that you can't just straight up compare diablo 3 to the previous diablo games for the same reasons you mentioned, it's different, it's evolving. It's not like people just modded or created addons for one blizzard title, this has been an ongoing process for over a decade now for just about every blizzard title one way or another.
Please explain to me how a 1 to 4-player game is MMO. The only thing in the game resembling any Massive Multiplayer is the Auction House, which is a. Optional and b. Indirect.
Ever played Rakion? I was classified as a MMO.
Doesn't matter what specific term you want to use. Its in the same categories than MMO, even if its not -exactly- an MMO. Its a game that forces you to be online to play and is promoted as such to play with people. Oh hey, its a MO, then. Presents the same damn problem as an MMO and brings alongs the same limit and gripes, and controls of the masses.
I played WoW for almost 7 years and only used dps meter and atlas loot (mod for all items in the game). I got forced to use deadly boss mods (raid helper) when I was raiding and only used it for a short time. My point is I like the way Diablo 3 UI now and won't replace it if someone makes a different one.
As for modified content, I will neither support nor against it. I did enjoyed modified content in Titan Quest (an action rpg in case you don't know) that made it a bit harder and some new stuff.
So no mod support from blizzard, I'm fine. I'll live.
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I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North,Torchlight 2,Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
I didn't use addons in wow for the first year or so. Ultimately I was picking and choosing utilities from about 30 different mods. It was almost as fun as actually playing the game, getting the perfect set up which was unique to me.
Please explain to me how a 1 to 4-player game is MMO. The only thing in the game resembling any Massive Multiplayer is the Auction House, which is a. Optional and b. Indirect.
Ever played Rakion? I was classified as a MMO.
Doesn't matter what specific term you want to use. Its in the same categories than MMO, even if its not -exactly- an MMO. Its a game that forces you to be online to play and is promoted as such to play with people. Oh hey, its a MO, then. Presents the same damn problem as an MMO and brings alongs the same limit and gripes, and controls of the masses.
So, was D2 a MMO? No. It was a RPG. D3 is not an MMO, either. It might be a MORPG, but it's a RPG first.
- 1st off modding has been about single player games. You take the single player code and mod it. Diablo3 is an online game (like it or not). Modding it is out of the question, its illegal.
- It is foolish to assume that just because a company allows modding in one game franchise, all their games should be mod-able. Each and every franchise is lead by different teams, each team has its own philosophy. Blizzard as a company has never had modding as a company ethos, they have always been about building games people want to play.
- If you want to create mod's for D3, that would mean running your own servers. Feel free to do so. But please create your own forums, and create your own community. As it stands right now, acts like these are illegal and Diablofans wants to foster good relations with Blizzard but alienate them.
Please explain to me how a 1 to 4-player game is MMO. The only thing in the game resembling any Massive Multiplayer is the Auction House, which is a. Optional and b. Indirect.
Ever played Rakion? I was classified as a MMO.
No it wasn't. It's genre is Action RPG that you happen to be able to play online.
Diablo 3 is an RPG that you happen to be able to play online.
MMO games are VERY different. In those, you are playing with hundreds/thousands of players simultaneously.
Please explain to me how a 1 to 4-player game is MMO. The only thing in the game resembling any Massive Multiplayer is the Auction House, which is a. Optional and b. Indirect.
Ever played Rakion? I was classified as a MMO.
Doesn't matter what specific term you want to use. Its in the same categories than MMO, even if its not -exactly- an MMO. Its a game that forces you to be online to play and is promoted as such to play with people. Oh hey, its a MO, then. Presents the same damn problem as an MMO and brings alongs the same limit and gripes, and controls of the masses.
Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. Just because it shares similar traits, doesn't make it the same.
Who classified this Rakion game as an MMO? The community? Or the developer trying to jump on the hottest game genre for the last 6 years to sell more units? (Honestly, I've never even heard of it so I have no idea)
MMO implies one very important thing, multiple simultaneous player connections in a single persistent world. Diablo does not have persistent worlds, nor is multiplayer even required to experience the entirety of content provided. Honestly, it's a stretch to even call it a multiplayer game. Sure, it has "online multiplayer functionality", but to blanket that with MMO, is pretty much dead wrong. Using that logic, Counter Strike is an MMO, right?
Diablo is a single player ARPG, with 2-4 player co-op. Nothing more. Just because it's an RPG made by a company that did an MMO, doesn't entitle it to be given the tag.
If none of you can grasp that simple thing, I'm not going to waste my fucking time.
Rager needs a chill pill. The game is online thats a duh factor. But the game is not an MMO. MMO is an online game with a large open world where every player can interact with each other. This is an Actiom RPG. Regardless of it being online 24/7 you can only interact with 3 people at a time. If being online is such a big deal on game genres then lets call every RTS with online capabilities MMOs as well.
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Went outside today, the graphics were ok. But the gameplay sucked
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I don't really care what they come up with, Diablo has switched genre and has such, does not allow modding. (don't bother me with UI "mods", why are they even called mods is beyond me).
And the genre switch is really the whole travesty here.
but like I said, the quote of "diablo has never been about modding" is from blizzards point of view (not ours). They have never ment diablo to be modded, we did that on our own, so there was never a reason to think they would let us now. (trust me as a programmer I would be all over it if we had some form of API) but we dont, and I totally understand that.
What, so you don't see them, they don't matter?
And yeah players went and modded the game in the past, but they weren't hunted down and banned as far as I understand, much to the contrary they like to boast that blizzard plays their mods. It's new and different in the fact that we're now looking to ban people now, the same people that have breathed new life into old games and influenced major aspects of the diablo universe even today.
It's the one of the company who is maken the game in the first place. We made the mods, it was never supported. It should never have been expected for them to add something they never wanted to add in the first place. Its not how they see their game, we know blizzard wants to make its fans happy, but at the same time, it wont be their game if they add things they dont feel are appropriate for their game.
Don't matter in what respect? to me as another player, no. If im playing online, how would people playing by themselves no longer playing effect me, or anyone else playing online at all?
The debate here isnt about if mods extended the single player gameplay of diablo 2, we know it did, but the community did that, not blizzard.
Do I think blizzard should jump on the oppertunity to allow the community to extend the life of its own game for free basically (well not free due to dev time) yes of course. Its a win/win. However, like I said, this is not what they want for their game, its not what they have EVER envisioned for their game. Blizzard has made games we love, im going to trust them.
Please explain to me how a 1 to 4-player game is MMO. The only thing in the game resembling any Massive Multiplayer is the Auction House, which is a. Optional and b. Indirect.
Do you know anyone who purchased a new copy of Diablo II just to play a mod? I doubt it. I'm sure a handful exist somewhere, but nothing significant.
However, the real issue with modding and emulation is: OFFLINE PLAY. If you've done any research online, you would know that the client can already be downloaded. With modding and emulation, you've just opened up the door to Pirating, which obviously Blizzard is going to avoid at all costs. Just a simple fact, and if I was a business that spent this long producing something, I wouldn't want anyone getting it for free by any means.
I understand that this is diablo we're talking about, not wow. But given that you can't just straight up compare diablo 3 to the previous diablo games for the same reasons you mentioned, it's different, it's evolving. It's not like people just modded or created addons for one blizzard title, this has been an ongoing process for over a decade now for just about every blizzard title one way or another.
Doesn't matter what specific term you want to use. Its in the same categories than MMO, even if its not -exactly- an MMO. Its a game that forces you to be online to play and is promoted as such to play with people. Oh hey, its a MO, then. Presents the same damn problem as an MMO and brings alongs the same limit and gripes, and controls of the masses.
As for modified content, I will neither support nor against it. I did enjoyed modified content in Titan Quest (an action rpg in case you don't know) that made it a bit harder and some new stuff.
So no mod support from blizzard, I'm fine. I'll live.
So, was D2 a MMO? No. It was a RPG. D3 is not an MMO, either. It might be a MORPG, but it's a RPG first.
- It is foolish to assume that just because a company allows modding in one game franchise, all their games should be mod-able. Each and every franchise is lead by different teams, each team has its own philosophy. Blizzard as a company has never had modding as a company ethos, they have always been about building games people want to play.
- If you want to create mod's for D3, that would mean running your own servers. Feel free to do so. But please create your own forums, and create your own community. As it stands right now, acts like these are illegal and Diablofans wants to foster good relations with Blizzard but alienate them.
No it wasn't. It's genre is Action RPG that you happen to be able to play online.
Diablo 3 is an RPG that you happen to be able to play online.
MMO games are VERY different. In those, you are playing with hundreds/thousands of players simultaneously.
Your last sentence doesn't even make sense. Just because it shares similar traits, doesn't make it the same.
Who classified this Rakion game as an MMO? The community? Or the developer trying to jump on the hottest game genre for the last 6 years to sell more units? (Honestly, I've never even heard of it so I have no idea)
MMO implies one very important thing, multiple simultaneous player connections in a single persistent world. Diablo does not have persistent worlds, nor is multiplayer even required to experience the entirety of content provided. Honestly, it's a stretch to even call it a multiplayer game. Sure, it has "online multiplayer functionality", but to blanket that with MMO, is pretty much dead wrong. Using that logic, Counter Strike is an MMO, right?
Diablo is a single player ARPG, with 2-4 player co-op. Nothing more. Just because it's an RPG made by a company that did an MMO, doesn't entitle it to be given the tag.
ITS COMPLETELY ONLINE.
THATS THE POINT.
If none of you can grasp that simple thing, I'm not going to waste my fucking time.
I'll take the flames from here.
An MMO is so much more than being completely online.
Rager needs a chill pill. The game is online thats a duh factor. But the game is not an MMO. MMO is an online game with a large open world where every player can interact with each other. This is an Actiom RPG. Regardless of it being online 24/7 you can only interact with 3 people at a time. If being online is such a big deal on game genres then lets call every RTS with online capabilities MMOs as well.