Hearing Blizzard talk about loot 2.0 for the last 9 months has been nothing short of frustrating. Even more frustrating is that we have heard the same things for ages now. I haven't learned anything new about itemization in the last.... 4-5 months. Worst is that we learn NOTHING new about the current D3 at blizzcon. THE Blizzard event.
I expected at least something like, "alright it is going onto the PTR in a week!" during Blizzcon. I mean, it is going to be on the PTR for probably 2 months and it isn't even there yet. Which means it is guaranteed to not be out before the year ends. Which means a full year of hearing about an itemization patch. It feels like empty promises by now.
Diablo 3 kind of feels like the first game that Blizzard kind of ignored. They fixed gamebreaking issues like difficulty and server stability, but largely left the rest alone.
Diablo 3 kind of feels like the first game that Blizzard kind of ignored. They fixed gamebreaking issues like difficulty and server stability, but largely left the rest alone.
I'm no expert on the historical handlings of Blizzard toward their games, but I can give you one title that saw a substantial period of rot.
Diablo 2
I expected at least something like, "alright it is going onto the PTR in a week!" during Blizzcon. I mean, it is going to be on the PTR for probably 2 months and it isn't even there yet. Which means it is guaranteed to not be out before the year ends. Which means a full year of hearing about an itemization patch. It feels like empty promises by now.
We're looking at a best case scenario of early 2014. I'm eyeballing the March 14th AH dismantling as a bit of a loose guideline to their target date, either for PTR or live launch of the pre-Xpac patch.
Hearing Blizzard talk about loot 2.0 for the last 9 months has been nothing short of frustrating. Even more frustrating is that we have heard the same things for ages now. I haven't learned anything new about itemization in the last.... 4-5 months. Worst is that we learn NOTHING new about the current D3 at blizzcon. THE Blizzard event.
I am equally disappointed with the lack of 'meat & potatoes' offered forth at Blizzcon. Hopefully there will be some serious activity by Blues this week @ Bnet forums. Silence would be.....quite off-putting.
Diablo 3 kind of feels like the first game that Blizzard kind of ignored. They fixed gamebreaking issues like difficulty and server stability, but largely left the rest alone.
I'm no expert on the historical handlings of Blizzard toward their games, but I can give you one title that saw a substantial period of rot.
Diablo 2
I expected at least something like, "alright it is going onto the PTR in a week!" during Blizzcon. I mean, it is going to be on the PTR for probably 2 months and it isn't even there yet. Which means it is guaranteed to not be out before the year ends. Which means a full year of hearing about an itemization patch. It feels like empty promises by now.
We're looking at a best case scenario of early 2014. I'm eyeballing the March 14th AH dismantling as a bit of a loose guideline to their target date, either for PTR or live launch of the pre-Xpac patch.
Hearing Blizzard talk about loot 2.0 for the last 9 months has been nothing short of frustrating. Even more frustrating is that we have heard the same things for ages now. I haven't learned anything new about itemization in the last.... 4-5 months. Worst is that we learn NOTHING new about the current D3 at blizzcon. THE Blizzard event.
I am equally disappointed with the lack of 'meat & potatoes' offered forth at Blizzcon. Hopefully there will be some serious activity by Blues this week @ Bnet forums. Silence would be.....quite off-putting.
Diablo 2 had a full expansion after only a year. We are a year and 6 months in for D3 without much in sight. 1.08 was special in D2, then 1.09 did an itemization change. Then october came and 1.10 was released which gave skill synergy, world event, and ladder. All within 16 months of the release of normal D2. We are sitting at 18 months now for D3, and at least a few more months before any other changes.
Diablo 2 had a full expansion after only a year. We are a year and 6 months in for D3 without much in sight. 1.08 was special in D2, then 1.09 did an itemization change. Then october came and 1.10 was released which gave skill synergy, world event, and ladder. All within 16 months of the release of normal D2. We are sitting at 18 months now for D3, and at least a few more months before any other changes.
Well...yeah I get that. However D2 saw only 1 substantial content add over the next 12 years of it's life. Which was 2006, when the Uber event/Torch was added. In all fairness, we have seen BoA crafts added, an Uber event, a massive uptake in monster density, along with a litany of other quality of life changes.
Itemization has been left in a fetid state. Though they did give it a cursory bump only a few months after launch.
Look, I feel you're pain. I've made my anger over the itemization stagnancy quite clear here before. I've quit Diablo 3 a total of 4 times in it's first 18 months. If you would've told me I'd do that 2 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you. As of now, I've made peace with the fact that change will be slow, but sweeping and impactful. We're getting at least 2 x-pacs and hopefully lots of support over the coming years.
I haven't learned anything new about itemization in the last.... 4-5 months.
This part really makes me scratch my head.
Changes to Legendaries and possible affixeson items (such as the datamined info on "ring" affixes, and much bigger bonuses to certain skills, like that 9% bonus to Meteor Jaetch reported). Insane affixes that have the craziest effects and could potentially provide enough "fun factor" months after the xpac has been released (provided you don't get them all via trading).
Changes to Set Bonuses that will cater to specific playstyles (like the "Ninja" set bonus shown), and hopefully make class-specific Sets a lot more interesting.
Drop Ratio Tuning which means that less items overall will drop, but they will be more meaningful. More valuable materials for Crafting and Enchanting, and less supply means that picking up "useless" items is probably a good idea if you plan on min-maxing. Also, less Greys/Whites and more Legendaries.
Stats Tuning means that even if you roll an extremely bad "Vit" roll on your item, it's still going to be useable (and much higher, unlike the current, for instance, 10-200 range). 30 STR isn't really meaningful in the end-game, and this tuning is to acknowledge that.
Smart Drops will also kinda affect itemization, by making sure at least the main primary stat of the item is tailored the the class you're playing (you still have to roll a 6 affix rare, and good affixes and rolls on those). You still need to roll good support stats, but at least you won't farm for 5 hours with a Demon Hunter without having a _single_ decent DEX item drop.
Enchanting has the potential of greatly improving itemization and item hunting. You'll always be with eyes open for that mediocre item that is 1 affix away from being amazing. That is now a viable item, but you will need to invest quite a bit of gold to get that one affix that you want, and probably even more to maximize its roll (it can still range from a-z).
We learned that "Primary" affixes and "Secondary" affixes will be officially split (they were always meant to be separate categories from the start). So now you don't have things like secondary resists competing in "affix slots" with Critical Hit Chance. To me this is a hugely positive change (I even talked about this idea on an article that I wrote some time ago).
That's just what I can remember out of the top of my head. I might be forgetting something. But either way, if all these are "nothing" to you, and you can't realize how these might change the way we hunt for items, I don't know what exactly you wanted regarding "itemization".
A lot of small changes together have the potential to cause HUGE changes to how enjoyable a game can be. And the nail in the coffin: the AH/RMAH removal.
Diablo 2 had a full expansion after only a year. We are a year and 6 months in for D3 without much in sight. 1.08 was special in D2, then 1.09 did an itemization change. Then october came and 1.10 was released which gave skill synergy, world event, and ladder. All within 16 months of the release of normal D2. We are sitting at 18 months now for D3, and at least a few more months before any other changes.
Well...yeah I get that. However D2 saw only 1 substantial content add over the next 12 years of it's life. Which was 2006, when the Uber event/Torch was added. In all fairness, we have seen BoA crafts added, an Uber event, a massive uptake in monster density, along with a litany of other quality of life changes.
Itemization has been left in a fetid state. Though they did give it a cursory bump only a few months after launch.
Look, I feel you're pain. I've made my anger over the itemization stagnancy quite clear here before. I've quit Diablo 3 a total of 4 times in it's first 18 months. If you would've told me I'd do that 2 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you. As of now, I've made peace with the fact that change will be slow, but sweeping and impactful. We're getting at least 2 x-pacs and hopefully lots of support over the coming years.
It didn't need more though. It had everything it needed. There were no bugs, there was tons of content, there were ladder resets, items were great (albeit mostly due to dupes). After 16 months it had it all, the most important one being itemization.
I haven't learned anything new about itemization in the last.... 4-5 months.
This part really makes me scratch my head.
Changes to Legendaries and possible affixeson items (such as the datamined info on "ring" affixes, and much bigger bonuses to certain skills, like that 9% bonus to Meteor Jaetch reported). Insane affixes that have the craziest effects and could potentially provide enough "fun factor" months after the xpac has been released (provided you don't get them all via trading).
Changes to Set Bonuses that will cater to specific playstyles (like the "Ninja" set bonus shown), and hopefully make class-specific Sets a lot more interesting.
Drop Ratio Tuning which means that less items overall will drop, but they will be more meaningful. More valuable materials for Crafting and Enchanting, and less supply means that picking up "useless" items is probably a good idea if you plan on min-maxing. Also, less Greys/Whites and more Legendaries.
Stats Tuning means that even if you roll an extremely bad "Vit" roll on your item, it's still going to be useable (and much higher, unlike the current, for instance, 10-200 range). 30 STR isn't really meaningful in the end-game, and this tuning is to acknowledge that.
Smart Drops will also kinda affect itemization, by making sure at least the main primary stat of the item is tailored the the class you're playing (you still have to roll a 6 affix rare, and good affixes and rolls on those). You still need to roll good support stats, but at least you won't farm for 5 hours with a Demon Hunter without having a _single_ decent DEX item drop.
Enchanting has the potential of greatly improving itemization and item hunting. You'll always be with eyes open for that mediocre item that is 1 affix away from being amazing. That is now a viable item, but you will need to invest quite a bit of gold to get that one affix that you want, and probably even more to maximize its roll (it can still range from a-z).
We learned that "Primary" affixes and "Secondary" affixes will be officially split (they were always meant to be separate categories from the start). So now you don't have things like secondary resists competing in "affix slots" with Critical Hit Chance. To me this is a hugely positive change (I even talked about this idea on an article that I wrote some time ago).
That's just what I can remember out of the top of my head. I might be forgetting something. But either way, if all these are "nothing" to you, and you can't realize how these might change the way we hunt for items, I don't know what exactly you wanted regarding "itemization".
A lot of small changes together have the potential to cause HUGE changes to how enjoyable a game can be. And the nail in the coffin: the AH/RMAH removal.
We have learned specific affixes, but I dont find that information to be too telling of much. We have known that new ones are coming since February. Set bonuses are the same thing as specifics. I don't care about knowing what each item drop is before the patch.
So all of what you have said (except specific affixes that were datamined) we have known about for 4+ months now.
EDIT: This is a game with a heavy focus on ITEMS. And they are waiting ages to fix the ITEMS. I just dont understand why it takes so long when they completely revamped and released new items within a couple of months for D2.
Diablo 3 kind of feels like the first game that Blizzard kind of ignored. They fixed gamebreaking issues like difficulty and server stability, but largely left the rest alone.
I don't know how you got to this conclusion but i'm sorry to say that in my opinion it's totally false and unbased.
About the itemization or loot 2.0... Well they are still working on it so they couldn't say too much at Blizzcon because then the little brats all come whinning.
It [D2] didn't need more though. It had everything it needed. There were no bugs, there was tons of content, there were ladder resets, items were great (albeit mostly due to dupes). After 16 months it had it all, the most important one being itemization.
I have to STRONGLY disagree. The biggest shame of Diablo 2 was that they stopped developing it in 2001.
That game had soooo much more potential left to be extrapolated. The mods that were done on Open Bnet proved much of that. D2 began fast and then lingered in it's state for the duration, given only a few bits of attention after 2001.
Diablo 3 has started slowly. But it appears D3's life will be one of massive change and dynamic growth for years to come. They talk of another xpac after RoS. Which means D3 will still be growing in 2016, four years after launch.
The thing about these itemization promises is that though they sound good, I don't think I will be really satisfied until I'm actually playing the game and getting items, getting excited about them, and equipping diverse sets of gear and gearing with varied types of stats. Their talk is nice, but proof is in the pudding and all that. Or rather, don't believe the hype.
That kind of hands-on satisfaction is out of their hands, of course.
The thing about these itemization promises is that though they sound good, I don't think I will be really satisfied until I'm actually playing the game and getting items, getting excited about them, and equipping diverse sets of gear and gearing with varied types of stats. Their talk is nice, but proof is in the pudding and all that. Or rather, don't believe the hype.
That kind of hands-on satisfaction is out of their hands, of course.
Was going to say...
It's amazing how different the reactions were between players that tried the game at BlizzCon and people that are just reading the news.
Diablo 2 had a full expansion after only a year. We are a year and 6 months in for D3 without much in sight. 1.08 was special in D2, then 1.09 did an itemization change. Then october came and 1.10 was released which gave skill synergy, world event, and ladder. All within 16 months of the release of normal D2. We are sitting at 18 months now for D3, and at least a few more months before any other changes.
I knew something was fishy here, so I went fact checking.
Patch 1.10 was released in October, 2003 versus 1.09's August, 2001.
The expansion was released in June, 2001, one year after the original's June, 2000.
Reading patch notes, the first big and significant change to Diablo 2 came with the 1.07, which was basically the pre-expansion patch.
Well, one might argue that going through all the trouble (taking time off work/university, all the expenses involved, etc) to attend Blizzcon is in the top echelons of """fanboyism""" (note the triple quotation marks), so people attending are very, very unlikely to openly coming out and saying "this was utter shit".
One might argue.
Btw, what are these "promises" you speak of? If anything, the loot was the most under-represented game system in this blizzcon.
Don't call people that feel excitement about a game fanboys. We both know it's different. I'm sure you can take frustration off in different ways.
Ask yourself: "would I feel this frustrated if I hadn't read any of the datamined news at all?"
If you take that into consideration, then this Blizzcon was quite revealing and would have pumped up the hype train even more for RoS. Imagine you were hearing the words "bounties" and "adventure mode" for the very first time at Blizzcon.
I'm not trying to be rude with this statement - its actually a question that I've been asking myself, because I mildly feel the same sense of frustration. I think the PR team had all of this prepared for Blizzcon and then it got the thunder taken from it with datamining. And since I'm pretty confident that it takes a while to put together videos, carefully stated press released and rehearsing your developers to not let out too much info, they most likely didn't have time to prepare other things for Blizzcon.
Its not their fault - its ours for essentially looking into what wasn't ours to unveil.
Diablo 2 had a full expansion after only a year. We are a year and 6 months in for D3 without much in sight. 1.08 was special in D2, then 1.09 did an itemization change. Then october came and 1.10 was released which gave skill synergy, world event, and ladder. All within 16 months of the release of normal D2. We are sitting at 18 months now for D3, and at least a few more months before any other changes.
I knew something was fishy here, so I went fact checking.
Patch 1.10 was released in October, 2003 versus 1.09's August, 2001.
The expansion was released in June, 2001, one year after the original's June, 2000.
Reading patch notes, the first big and significant change to Diablo 2 came with the 1.07, which was basically the pre-expansion patch.
Yea, I messed up on the date of 1.10. Still, 1.07 was the expansion patch and 1.08 came out shortly after the release of the expansion. Then another big change to itemization came a couple months later with 1.09. 1.09 came out 14 months after the release of D2.
It [D2] didn't need more though. It had everything it needed. There were no bugs, there was tons of content, there were ladder resets, items were great (albeit mostly due to dupes). After 16 months it had it all, the most important one being itemization.
I have to STRONGLY disagree. The biggest shame of Diablo 2 was that they stopped developing it in 2001.
That game had soooo much more potential left to be extrapolated. The mods that were done on Open Bnet proved much of that. D2 began fast and then lingered in it's state for the duration, given only a few bits of attention after 2001.
Diablo 3 has started slowly. But it appears D3's life will be one of massive change and dynamic growth for years to come. They talk of another xpac after RoS. Which means D3 will still be growing in 2016, four years after launch.
From what I remember, blizzard was pretty limited by the servers, and possibly from the code being very old. I know they talked up 1.13 for a long time and when it finally came out it was a big disappointment because of so many broken promises. We don't really know the extent of the limitations that blizzard had for D2.
Ask yourself: "would I feel this frustrated if I hadn't read any of the datamined news at all?"
If you take that into consideration, then this Blizzcon was quite revealing and would have pumped up the hype train even more for RoS. Imagine you were hearing the words "bounties" and "adventure mode" for the very first time at Blizzcon.
I'm not trying to be rude with this statement - its actually a question that I've been asking myself, because I mildly feel the same sense of frustration. I think the PR team had all of this prepared for Blizzcon and then it got the thunder taken from it with datamining. And since I'm pretty confident that it takes a while to put together videos, carefully stated press released and rehearsing your developers to not let out too much info, they most likely didn't have time to prepare other things for Blizzcon.
Its not their fault - its ours for essentially looking into what wasn't ours to unveil.
I already said that I don't really care about the datamined information. I didn't even read all of it. Pretty much all of the loot 2.0 information we know, outside of the datamined stuff that I don't care about, we have known since July. Now, don't get me wrong. I am pumped for RoS. It sounds awesome. But I don't have RoS. I don't know when RoS is coming out. I DO have Diablo 3, which has been shelved several times, which is a shame because it really is a great game.
I just don't understand why a loot patch takes a year+ to release. I don't understand why they would announce the loot patch in february, and just leave us hanging until summer then blizzcon, then beyond.
unbiased observers don't spend 100s of dollars to travel and see a subpar "blowing smoke up our own asses" gaming event.
While I agree the observers arent unbiased, it is a pretty awesome event. SC2 tournament, WoW tournament, hands on with unreleased games, cool panels, live band, good entertainment all around.
I expected at least something like, "alright it is going onto the PTR in a week!" during Blizzcon. I mean, it is going to be on the PTR for probably 2 months and it isn't even there yet. Which means it is guaranteed to not be out before the year ends. Which means a full year of hearing about an itemization patch. It feels like empty promises by now.
Diablo 3 kind of feels like the first game that Blizzard kind of ignored. They fixed gamebreaking issues like difficulty and server stability, but largely left the rest alone.
I'm no expert on the historical handlings of Blizzard toward their games, but I can give you one title that saw a substantial period of rot.
Diablo 2
We're looking at a best case scenario of early 2014. I'm eyeballing the March 14th AH dismantling as a bit of a loose guideline to their target date, either for PTR or live launch of the pre-Xpac patch.
I am equally disappointed with the lack of 'meat & potatoes' offered forth at Blizzcon. Hopefully there will be some serious activity by Blues this week @ Bnet forums. Silence would be.....quite off-putting.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Well...yeah I get that. However D2 saw only 1 substantial content add over the next 12 years of it's life. Which was 2006, when the Uber event/Torch was added. In all fairness, we have seen BoA crafts added, an Uber event, a massive uptake in monster density, along with a litany of other quality of life changes.
Itemization has been left in a fetid state. Though they did give it a cursory bump only a few months after launch.
Look, I feel you're pain. I've made my anger over the itemization stagnancy quite clear here before. I've quit Diablo 3 a total of 4 times in it's first 18 months. If you would've told me I'd do that 2 years ago, I wouldn't have believed you. As of now, I've made peace with the fact that change will be slow, but sweeping and impactful. We're getting at least 2 x-pacs and hopefully lots of support over the coming years.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
A lot of small changes together have the potential to cause HUGE changes to how enjoyable a game can be. And the nail in the coffin: the AH/RMAH removal.
We have learned specific affixes, but I dont find that information to be too telling of much. We have known that new ones are coming since February. Set bonuses are the same thing as specifics. I don't care about knowing what each item drop is before the patch.
We learned about drop ratio tuning, stat tuning, and affixes here (march):
http://us.battle.net...n/blog/8953696/
We learned about smart drops (at the latest) in july:
http://www.escapistm...ier-to-Get-Loot
Enchanting was going to be in D3 originally, but was pulled. We have known about the mystic for ages beyond that (or at least rumors). I don't care to find the first official post about it, but I know it was known since july.
http://diablo.incgam...ed-feature-list
Or for an official comment about it:
http://us.battle.net...-7-19-2013#best
So all of what you have said (except specific affixes that were datamined) we have known about for 4+ months now.
EDIT: This is a game with a heavy focus on ITEMS. And they are waiting ages to fix the ITEMS. I just dont understand why it takes so long when they completely revamped and released new items within a couple of months for D2.
I don't know how you got to this conclusion but i'm sorry to say that in my opinion it's totally false and unbased.
About the itemization or loot 2.0... Well they are still working on it so they couldn't say too much at Blizzcon because then the little brats all come whinning.
I have to STRONGLY disagree. The biggest shame of Diablo 2 was that they stopped developing it in 2001.
That game had soooo much more potential left to be extrapolated. The mods that were done on Open Bnet proved much of that. D2 began fast and then lingered in it's state for the duration, given only a few bits of attention after 2001.
Diablo 3 has started slowly. But it appears D3's life will be one of massive change and dynamic growth for years to come. They talk of another xpac after RoS. Which means D3 will still be growing in 2016, four years after launch.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
That kind of hands-on satisfaction is out of their hands, of course.
Was going to say...
It's amazing how different the reactions were between players that tried the game at BlizzCon and people that are just reading the news.
Ah well.
Ha. Bagstone.
Patch 1.10 was released in October, 2003 versus 1.09's August, 2001.
The expansion was released in June, 2001, one year after the original's June, 2000.
Reading patch notes, the first big and significant change to Diablo 2 came with the 1.07, which was basically the pre-expansion patch.
Don't call people that feel excitement about a game fanboys. We both know it's different. I'm sure you can take frustration off in different ways.
Ha. Bagstone.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
If you take that into consideration, then this Blizzcon was quite revealing and would have pumped up the hype train even more for RoS. Imagine you were hearing the words "bounties" and "adventure mode" for the very first time at Blizzcon.
I'm not trying to be rude with this statement - its actually a question that I've been asking myself, because I mildly feel the same sense of frustration. I think the PR team had all of this prepared for Blizzcon and then it got the thunder taken from it with datamining. And since I'm pretty confident that it takes a while to put together videos, carefully stated press released and rehearsing your developers to not let out too much info, they most likely didn't have time to prepare other things for Blizzcon.
Its not their fault - its ours for essentially looking into what wasn't ours to unveil.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Yeah, that was lame, so here's some consolation legendary images: http://imgur.com/a/kielq
Basically, however excited we were with those first few data-mined reports, is how excited we would have been. Which is pretty freaking excited.
From what I remember, blizzard was pretty limited by the servers, and possibly from the code being very old. I know they talked up 1.13 for a long time and when it finally came out it was a big disappointment because of so many broken promises. We don't really know the extent of the limitations that blizzard had for D2.
I already said that I don't really care about the datamined information. I didn't even read all of it. Pretty much all of the loot 2.0 information we know, outside of the datamined stuff that I don't care about, we have known since July. Now, don't get me wrong. I am pumped for RoS. It sounds awesome. But I don't have RoS. I don't know when RoS is coming out. I DO have Diablo 3, which has been shelved several times, which is a shame because it really is a great game.
I just don't understand why a loot patch takes a year+ to release. I don't understand why they would announce the loot patch in february, and just leave us hanging until summer then blizzcon, then beyond.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan