When I was a child I loved dungeons and dragons. I had a huge infatuation with buying the pewter characters setting up the board and reliving epic quests through the dungeon master dialogue. Many of you have no idea what I am talking about but D&D was a powerful game that took your mind on adventures that were extremely thrilling and masterfully written. I played this game when I was in elementary school at my neighbors house. He was much older than me but he introduced me to a life of admiring the fantasy realm. I was always assigned the dwarf and to this day am still fascinated by that classes idiosyncrasies and ability to fight ferociously in the dungeon with a sharp axe.
In middle school I fell away from D&D and started playing another game with my friends it was called heroquest. This game was not as intensive as D&D but the developers at Milton Bradley delivered a board game that conquered the imagination. Much like D&D their was an epic story line that pushed the boundaries of your imagination and forced you to relive many epic battles and adventures not just on the board but in your mind. The board and plastic pieces were simple....but the simplicity of it all was what engaged and captured out attentions for hours on end....my friends and I would even take advantage of the dark gloomy fall season and go on many adventures in our back yards yielding sticks and exploring unknown territories reliving the adventures brought to us by the board game itself.
Halfway through my eight grade year I stumbled upon a surprise at local video game store, a PC game that upon examination looked like it was cut right from the dialogues and battles found on the D&D and heroquest boards....of course this game was Diablo. I installed it on my Cybermax 686 and never looked back.
I loved Diablo and still do. No other video game not Mario, not TMNT, not anything captured my attention like Diablo did. It captured all of my childhood fantasies and brought them to life on the screen for the first time ever.
To me if you want my opinion on how Diablo and Diablo 3 are different is the simple fact that it strays away from taking the player through an epic and gripping adventure. Of course the graphics and gameplay are extremely well done but when it comes to the the transformation much like Bastian Bux vicariously living The Neverending Story it falls flat. Diablo was simple. The story was simple. It allowed the imagination to travel and it filled in the gaps with epic and unforgettable music along with daunting game play and architecture tone. An ARPG is more than just killing monster and getting loot its about the entire experience....its about mind travel...and living the game not only on the screen but in your conscious. Diablo will always be a powerful and masterful piece in my mind.
My message to the developers is simple: break out a game of D&D or heroquest and relive the epic adventures through your mind as many of us did years ago. Embrace the simplicity but at the same time complex nature of the games and find a way to apply this to your vision for D3 and future projects. These games laid the foundation of Diablo and any other RPG out there....simply stated, "these are our roots." Therefore, please revisit them as this will allow you to find a way to deliver, once again, an unforgettable adventure.
I completely respect the feelings you are describing about the games you played as a child, and how you don't think D3 has lived up to that now.
My simple observation however, is that those were games you GREW UP with. According to your writing you were very young when you first played Diablo. I'm willing to bet it was one of the very first computer games that you spent a lot of time with, just like me.
The point is, there is NOTHING Blizzard could have done to re-capture those moments for you, because you've already spent many hours with the game as a child, growing up with it.
It's that first time feeling that can never get bought back. The combination of having not played anything like it before and being young means you should cherish it like I do, but realize that's a once in a lifetime feeling.
Not sure if I agree with that. I remember playing in the good old PS2, the game Final Fantasy IX, 3 or 4 years ago (I'm 31) and I got sentimentally involved with that game so much that when certain event happened at the end of the game, I cried for a couple of mins.
With all of this I mean, that I think a well told story can actually touch you at a very deep level. In D3, that element is non-existent.
OP, do I get it right, that you miss those games, in which the stories had to be evolved inside your mind because the games didn't tell much of a story?
I wouldn't know much to say to that.
If it's story vs gameplay however, Blizz is the gameplay company. Their stories, especially in D3 were never that great, sometimes plain silly.
If you want good stories, I hope you have played all those Dungeons & Dragons games like Baldur's Gate? Check the second link in my sig if not.
I think Diablo 3 was not meant to be. Story, content, gameplay and mechanics were so over-extended from DIablo to Diablo 2 so much, that now there is only so little to do in Diablo 3. It would be much easier if Blizzard took a different approach in a new title. It would still be an ARPG, but new story, more freedom, more diversity. I agree withe the OP. But as the other member said, u cant relive something unique that way. Its like heating yesterday's food in the microwave and expecting it to be equally good.
Get read of the really heavy Diablo title, get rid of millions of hardcore users expectations, get rid of the magic recipe between "accomplishing old content but still adding new". Blizzard has gotten stuck in its own universe. Its either Warcraft, Diablo or Starcraft. Time to move on Blizzard.
P.S: So i want to share something if old gamers are here. My first time to Diablo, i got pawned so hard so i came up with this plan: Before opening the room of Diablo, i filed the ground with potions, because the potions in my inventory werent enough! Lol?
I think the OP is correct to say that D3's story just can't keep up with that of D1 (and I'd say even that of D2), even if you leave the age/experience effect aside. I know quite a few people who haven't played D1 and D2, so Diablo 3 was their first game in this particular universe, and none of them was particularly thrilled by the story. I don't share all the criticism about D3 being too bright, but I think that the atmosphere isn't as dark anymore. But this has less to do with graphics and more with the music and story telling. The story telling of D2 was superb; the music was okay, but it didn't not convey this epic tension. Diablo 1 was both perfect in terms of music (always very tense) and story telling (dark and mysterious). What killed the cat in Diablo 3 are the occasional jokes and comical references, such as NPCs behaving silly. Much like in a tense atmosphere where someone makes a joke, the NPCs just "kill" the tense atmosphere by joking around. Prime example: the ever annoying Covertous Shen. Sure, you had some jokes in Diablo 1 as well (the "cow" is one that comes to my mind), but deep down within the dungeon you wouldn't laugh, and the story wouldn't make you chuckle even once. Ever.
That being said, the ending of Diablo 1 with the mind-blowing plot twist is something you just can't repeat. Even if you do, everyone will just expect it. It's like making a movie "The Sixth Sense 2"... starting from the first minute, you kinda would know what to look for. It's like surprising someone who already knows; it's the reason why we can't tickle ourselves ("Oh, I didn't see that coming" said no one ever). And with that, here's my other take on this subject:
2)
I'm actually coming from a similar background, OP: I played pen&paper as well (though not D&D, we had different P&P games over here). Heroquest is a Warhammer spin-off; I tried Warhammer once but wasn't too keen on these tabletop games (they were also way too expensive, imho). In terms of computer games, I never felt that Diablo was the glorious digital manifestation of a P&P game. In fact, at least the way I played P&P games, it was far less about killing stuff and more about solving riddles and creating an adventures atmosphere similar to what many people picture as Lord of the Rings-like. It kind of depends on the moderator; the least interesting sessions were those were the moderator turned everything into a huge battle with loads of enemies.
Therefore, I favor real RPGs (as opposed to ARPGs) as the true digital counterparts of P&P games. Baldur's Gate was already mentioned; some other of my favorite RPGs are Planescape Torment (quite combat-heavy but the atmosphere is really unique), Maniac Mansion (almost no combat here), Fallout 1+2, the Zelda series, Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. Note that many of those were released after Diablo 1, therefore it's clearly not nostalgia talking here.
It very much sounds like Diablo was your first real RPG on a PC that involved some sort of story-telling. It had some unique features, but there's a reason why everyone agrees that it created a new genre: it was action-focused and added the "A" to "RPG".
Last but not least, I wanna close with a quote from whorebeast that sums up pretty much the sentiment about every single one of your favorite games:
I wish nothing more than to be able to unlearn everything and start over.
Most of the magic, especially in unveiling a story or seeing your RPG progress, comes from not knowing the end. Once you know the end, much of the magic is gone. There's no way to "un-do" that, and while Diablo 3 could definitely have better in terms of story-telling, there was almost no chance in hell it would have recreated emotions like ~15 years ago when you played Diablo for the first time.
I was a huge fan of Hero Quest, even bought two of the expansion packs for the game. Unfortunately I could rarely get anyone to play it with me. I also played Battle Masters too, which came out a few years later and was more along the lines of Warhammer.
Also something to note : Diablo is not a rpg, it's an Arpg. Emphasys on action.
It's not baldurs gate. Never was, never wants to be.
I agree with it.
I'd go as far as saying it actually became such a succesful franchise because of the weak focus on RPG aspects (compared to old D&D games, like Neverwinter's Night) and strongfocus on action mechanics (direct control, 1:1 movement, manual aiming on combat, etc).
P.S: So i want to share something if old gamers are here. My first time to Diablo, i got pawned so hard so i came up with this plan: Before opening the room of Diablo, i filed the ground with potions, because the potions in my inventory werent enough! Lol?
I loved Diablo and still do. No other video game not Mario, not TMNT, not anything captured my attention like Diablo did. It captured all of my childhood fantasies and brought them to life on the screen for the first time ever.
You've set a bar in your mind that no game, Diablo or other, will ever reach. There's nothing else to say. Diablo is your first girlfriend and, until you realize that and MOVE ON, you'll be busy ruining your future relationships by constantly thinking back to the "first girl."
P.S: So i want to share something if old gamers are here. My first time to Diablo, i got pawned so hard so i came up with this plan: Before opening the room of Diablo, i filed the ground with potions, because the potions in my inventory werent enough! Lol?
Like this?
I thought I was the only "noob" to do that
It was particularly heartbreaking when you failed even then...
In middle school I fell away from D&D and started playing another game with my friends it was called heroquest. This game was not as intensive as D&D but the developers at Milton Bradley delivered a board game that conquered the imagination. Much like D&D their was an epic story line that pushed the boundaries of your imagination and forced you to relive many epic battles and adventures not just on the board but in your mind. The board and plastic pieces were simple....but the simplicity of it all was what engaged and captured out attentions for hours on end....my friends and I would even take advantage of the dark gloomy fall season and go on many adventures in our back yards yielding sticks and exploring unknown territories reliving the adventures brought to us by the board game itself.
Halfway through my eight grade year I stumbled upon a surprise at local video game store, a PC game that upon examination looked like it was cut right from the dialogues and battles found on the D&D and heroquest boards....of course this game was Diablo. I installed it on my Cybermax 686 and never looked back.
I loved Diablo and still do. No other video game not Mario, not TMNT, not anything captured my attention like Diablo did. It captured all of my childhood fantasies and brought them to life on the screen for the first time ever.
To me if you want my opinion on how Diablo and Diablo 3 are different is the simple fact that it strays away from taking the player through an epic and gripping adventure. Of course the graphics and gameplay are extremely well done but when it comes to the the transformation much like Bastian Bux vicariously living The Neverending Story it falls flat. Diablo was simple. The story was simple. It allowed the imagination to travel and it filled in the gaps with epic and unforgettable music along with daunting game play and architecture tone. An ARPG is more than just killing monster and getting loot its about the entire experience....its about mind travel...and living the game not only on the screen but in your conscious. Diablo will always be a powerful and masterful piece in my mind.
My message to the developers is simple: break out a game of D&D or heroquest and relive the epic adventures through your mind as many of us did years ago. Embrace the simplicity but at the same time complex nature of the games and find a way to apply this to your vision for D3 and future projects. These games laid the foundation of Diablo and any other RPG out there....simply stated, "these are our roots." Therefore, please revisit them as this will allow you to find a way to deliver, once again, an unforgettable adventure.
My simple observation however, is that those were games you GREW UP with. According to your writing you were very young when you first played Diablo. I'm willing to bet it was one of the very first computer games that you spent a lot of time with, just like me.
The point is, there is NOTHING Blizzard could have done to re-capture those moments for you, because you've already spent many hours with the game as a child, growing up with it.
It's that first time feeling that can never get bought back. The combination of having not played anything like it before and being young means you should cherish it like I do, but realize that's a once in a lifetime feeling.
With all of this I mean, that I think a well told story can actually touch you at a very deep level. In D3, that element is non-existent.
Good gameplay lasts forever.
I prefer gameplay.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
I wouldn't know much to say to that.
If it's story vs gameplay however, Blizz is the gameplay company. Their stories, especially in D3 were never that great, sometimes plain silly.
If you want good stories, I hope you have played all those Dungeons & Dragons games like Baldur's Gate? Check the second link in my sig if not.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
Get read of the really heavy Diablo title, get rid of millions of hardcore users expectations, get rid of the magic recipe between "accomplishing old content but still adding new". Blizzard has gotten stuck in its own universe. Its either Warcraft, Diablo or Starcraft. Time to move on Blizzard.
P.S: So i want to share something if old gamers are here. My first time to Diablo, i got pawned so hard so i came up with this plan: Before opening the room of Diablo, i filed the ground with potions, because the potions in my inventory werent enough! Lol?
1)
I think the OP is correct to say that D3's story just can't keep up with that of D1 (and I'd say even that of D2), even if you leave the age/experience effect aside. I know quite a few people who haven't played D1 and D2, so Diablo 3 was their first game in this particular universe, and none of them was particularly thrilled by the story. I don't share all the criticism about D3 being too bright, but I think that the atmosphere isn't as dark anymore. But this has less to do with graphics and more with the music and story telling. The story telling of D2 was superb; the music was okay, but it didn't not convey this epic tension. Diablo 1 was both perfect in terms of music (always very tense) and story telling (dark and mysterious). What killed the cat in Diablo 3 are the occasional jokes and comical references, such as NPCs behaving silly. Much like in a tense atmosphere where someone makes a joke, the NPCs just "kill" the tense atmosphere by joking around. Prime example: the ever annoying Covertous Shen. Sure, you had some jokes in Diablo 1 as well (the "cow" is one that comes to my mind), but deep down within the dungeon you wouldn't laugh, and the story wouldn't make you chuckle even once. Ever.
That being said, the ending of Diablo 1 with the mind-blowing plot twist is something you just can't repeat. Even if you do, everyone will just expect it. It's like making a movie "The Sixth Sense 2"... starting from the first minute, you kinda would know what to look for. It's like surprising someone who already knows; it's the reason why we can't tickle ourselves ("Oh, I didn't see that coming" said no one ever). And with that, here's my other take on this subject:
2)
I'm actually coming from a similar background, OP: I played pen&paper as well (though not D&D, we had different P&P games over here). Heroquest is a Warhammer spin-off; I tried Warhammer once but wasn't too keen on these tabletop games (they were also way too expensive, imho). In terms of computer games, I never felt that Diablo was the glorious digital manifestation of a P&P game. In fact, at least the way I played P&P games, it was far less about killing stuff and more about solving riddles and creating an adventures atmosphere similar to what many people picture as Lord of the Rings-like. It kind of depends on the moderator; the least interesting sessions were those were the moderator turned everything into a huge battle with loads of enemies.
Therefore, I favor real RPGs (as opposed to ARPGs) as the true digital counterparts of P&P games. Baldur's Gate was already mentioned; some other of my favorite RPGs are Planescape Torment (quite combat-heavy but the atmosphere is really unique), Maniac Mansion (almost no combat here), Fallout 1+2, the Zelda series, Secret of Mana and Secret of Evermore. Note that many of those were released after Diablo 1, therefore it's clearly not nostalgia talking here.
It very much sounds like Diablo was your first real RPG on a PC that involved some sort of story-telling. It had some unique features, but there's a reason why everyone agrees that it created a new genre: it was action-focused and added the "A" to "RPG".
Last but not least, I wanna close with a quote from whorebeast that sums up pretty much the sentiment about every single one of your favorite games:
Most of the magic, especially in unveiling a story or seeing your RPG progress, comes from not knowing the end. Once you know the end, much of the magic is gone. There's no way to "un-do" that, and while Diablo 3 could definitely have better in terms of story-telling, there was almost no chance in hell it would have recreated emotions like ~15 years ago when you played Diablo for the first time.
It's not baldurs gate. Never was, never wants to be.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
I'd go as far as saying it actually became such a succesful franchise because of the weak focus on RPG aspects (compared to old D&D games, like Neverwinter's Night) and strong focus on action mechanics (direct control, 1:1 movement, manual aiming on combat, etc).
Like this?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
You've set a bar in your mind that no game, Diablo or other, will ever reach. There's nothing else to say. Diablo is your first girlfriend and, until you realize that and MOVE ON, you'll be busy ruining your future relationships by constantly thinking back to the "first girl."
It was particularly heartbreaking when you failed even then...
Pff, that was the first day of LoD and those Ancients were virtually impossible. With only physical vanilla chars, that is
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450