I understand why Blizzard has included the RM AH. It's the year 2011 and people pay for virtual goods these days. LoL? Battlefield? D2Jsp existed for D2 so Blizzard is just giving the community a tool that they were already asking for.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
One of the reasons why D2 PvP was so good because there were no restrictions. Players made the rules, did what they wanted. It seems like Blizzard wants to tell us how to PvP and that they want to reinforce that you shouldn't play PvP in a competitive way.
On a personal note, the only type of reward I want for PvP is a ladder.
And I'd just like to say something about balance. Diablo 3 doesn't need to be balanced. Diablo 2 was not balanced whatsoever. The community will learn to play with what they are given. If the Demon Hunter is the most underpowered class in the game... Oh well, people will deal with it by having fair fights playing DH vs DH. Blizzard should let the community decide how they want to play, not the other way around.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
having a ladder will not correct a bad pvp system for exemple.
So lets say barbarian are overpowered and witch doctor totally suck (its my first char, cant wait) So in the ranking well see ton of barbarian, even 3v3 of barbarians because they will be OP. WHY?! because they dont balance the pvp. Second, if the deathmatch is the only sort of pvp, do we ladder the team or the single individual? by what stat? number of kills? why? a witchdoctor who helped you root the barbarian and feared the sorceress to give more time for you to pewpew wont go up in ranking? So that make a very shitty ladder with only the overpowered class at the top and the shitty one at the bottom, yay!
Diablo is really a bad game for pvp and even worst one for ladder. its not an e-sport, its not build for that, its made to be pve and it is said from the start. Its like youre friend say he will give you a toaster but in youre head you keep wishing for an oven, it wont happen... not right now, not at release.
and the RMT has totally nothing to do with pvp, not even the same team.
edit: im going to be flammed for that but i tought D2 pvp sucked. I did it only because i was tired of doing run and levels to friends. Sometime i got a good fight but mostly it was crybaby using portals and potion, running everywhere on the map playing hide and seek. Lemme remember it right with a sorc... hmm .. bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport etc... (an exemple, dont go juge like crazy over a simple exemple) or against a barbarian? bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move etc. Against a paladin? Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot etc.
i gave some exemple, really really basic because of course there is more into it but how much it did happen? After that, people keep telling me! owmegawd! D2 pvp is sooooOOOooo awes0me! I played a ton of games all along the years that pvp was way more interesting seriously
I'd rather have a crappy ladder that has Overpowered classes on top of it than no Ladder. It makes no sense why'd they'd turn back a huge portion of their playerbase. I'm also getting sick of the words 'Competitive' and 'E-Sport' being used as if they're exactly the same.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
You have to take into account the game's time line because it is, after all, 11 years old. Back when the game wasn't dead (ps - I consider it dead now), the PvE community definitely overshadowed the PvP community. The reason why PvP is the big dog today is because there's nothing left to do or to discover in the PvE content. It's been digested and analyzed through-and-through. PvP is the only dynamic element the game has to offer at this point.
Blizzard should let the community decide how they want to play, not the other way around.
You have a very powerful point (to me personally) with this because it is the sole reason I stopped playing WoW. They changed [drastically] how my class played, and I liked the old technique more than the new one. It just wasn't for me. So the whole game just wasn't for me because what I enjoyed doing was removed (due to being too powerful).
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
You have to take into account the game's time line because it is, after all, 11 years old. Back when the game wasn't dead (ps - I consider it dead now), the PvE community definitely overshadowed the PvP community. The reason why PvP is the big dog today is because there's nothing left to do or to discover in the PvE content. It's been digested and analyzed through-and-through. PvP is the only dynamic element the game has to offer at this point.
Blizzard should let the community decide how they want to play, not the other way around.
You have a very powerful point (to me personally) with this because it is the sole reason I stopped playing WoW. They changed [drastically] how my class played, and I liked the old technique more than the new one. It just wasn't for me. So the whole game just wasn't for me because what I enjoyed doing was removed (due to being too powerful).
i really do agree with youre first point here. That make alot of sense. I think the focus of diablo 3 for the first year will really be on pve, around 90 to 95% of the players will pve more then pvp. The more the people will grow weary of the content they done a thousand time , the more they will turn again to pvp, wich will have time to grow too.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
You have to take into account the game's time line because it is, after all, 11 years old. Back when the game wasn't dead (ps - I consider it dead now), the PvE community definitely overshadowed the PvP community. The reason why PvP is the big dog today is because there's nothing left to do or to discover in the PvE content. It's been digested and analyzed through-and-through. PvP is the only dynamic element the game has to offer at this point.
Blizzard should let the community decide how they want to play, not the other way around.
You have a very powerful point (to me personally) with this because it is the sole reason I stopped playing WoW. They changed [drastically] how my class played, and I liked the old technique more than the new one. It just wasn't for me. So the whole game just wasn't for me because what I enjoyed doing was removed (due to being too powerful).
i really do agree with youre first point here. That make alot of sense. I think the focus of diablo 3 for the first year will really be on pve, around 90 to 95% of the players will pve more then pvp. The more the people will grow weary of the content they done a thousand time , the more they will turn again to pvp, wich will have time to grow too.
this also mainly happens due to the intense gear grind- when things even out it's time to PvP
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
You're wrong, pvp was played competitively in D2, don't assume that just because you played casually it was the case for everyone. There was even a list of top duelers in diabloii, pkhq, and lurkers.
I will repeat myself, Its not up to Blizzard to decided if pvp will be competitive in D3, if the community mobilize, people will make it happen, just like in Dota and TF2 (banning items, op skills, and such)
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
Diablo 2 PvP was open ended. Diablo 3 PvP is being forced casual.
RM AH requires development cycles to create. They are spending those cycles on a much smaller community (people who want to spend real money) rather than on a bigger community (people who PvP competitively). Also, managing a RM AH will be very resource intensive. Your dealing with peoples REAL MONEY. You need a lot of support. At the bare minimum, Blizzard would just need to keep PvP very open ended for it to be competitive. No balancing required (this is not an e-sport).
having a ladder will not correct a bad pvp system for exemple.
So lets say barbarian are overpowered and witch doctor totally suck (its my first char, cant wait) So in the ranking well see ton of barbarian, even 3v3 of barbarians because they will be OP. WHY?! because they dont balance the pvp. Second, if the deathmatch is the only sort of pvp, do we ladder the team or the single individual? by what stat? number of kills? why? a witchdoctor who helped you root the barbarian and feared the sorceress to give more time for you to pewpew wont go up in ranking? So that make a very shitty ladder with only the overpowered class at the top and the shitty one at the bottom, yay!
Diablo is really a bad game for pvp and even worst one for ladder. its not an e-sport, its not build for that, its made to be pve and it is said from the start. Its like youre friend say he will give you a toaster but in youre head you keep wishing for an oven, it wont happen... not right now, not at release.
and the RMT has totally nothing to do with pvp, not even the same team.
edit: im going to be flammed for that but i tought D2 pvp sucked. I did it only because i was tired of doing run and levels to friends. Sometime i got a good fight but mostly it was crybaby using portals and potion, running everywhere on the map playing hide and seek. Lemme remember it right with a sorc... hmm .. bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport etc... (an exemple, dont go juge like crazy over a simple exemple) or against a barbarian? bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move etc. Against a paladin? Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot etc.
i gave some exemple, really really basic because of course there is more into it but how much it did happen? After that, people keep telling me! owmegawd! D2 pvp is sooooOOOooo awes0me! I played a ton of games all along the years that pvp was way more interesting seriously
1. I was not saying a ladder would correct the system. It's just a feature I personally would enjoy.
2. Look at my above response about the RM AH
3. You have your own opinion about D2 PvP. You obviously PvP'd against amateurs. I personally played a lot of SvB (on both sides) and a good barbarian could actually hold his own against a Sorc with teleport. People found ways to make things work even if the game was super unbalanced.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
Diablo 2 PvP was open ended. Diablo 3 PvP is being forced casual.
RM AH requires development cycles to create. They are spending those cycles on a much smaller community (people who want to spend real money) rather than on a bigger community (people who PvP competitively). Also, managing a RM AH will be very resource intensive. Your dealing with peoples REAL MONEY. You need a lot of support. At the bare minimum, Blizzard would just need to keep PvP very open ended for it to be competitive. No balancing required (this is not an e-sport).
having a ladder will not correct a bad pvp system for exemple.
So lets say barbarian are overpowered and witch doctor totally suck (its my first char, cant wait) So in the ranking well see ton of barbarian, even 3v3 of barbarians because they will be OP. WHY?! because they dont balance the pvp. Second, if the deathmatch is the only sort of pvp, do we ladder the team or the single individual? by what stat? number of kills? why? a witchdoctor who helped you root the barbarian and feared the sorceress to give more time for you to pewpew wont go up in ranking? So that make a very shitty ladder with only the overpowered class at the top and the shitty one at the bottom, yay!
Diablo is really a bad game for pvp and even worst one for ladder. its not an e-sport, its not build for that, its made to be pve and it is said from the start. Its like youre friend say he will give you a toaster but in youre head you keep wishing for an oven, it wont happen... not right now, not at release.
and the RMT has totally nothing to do with pvp, not even the same team.
edit: im going to be flammed for that but i tought D2 pvp sucked. I did it only because i was tired of doing run and levels to friends. Sometime i got a good fight but mostly it was crybaby using portals and potion, running everywhere on the map playing hide and seek. Lemme remember it right with a sorc... hmm .. bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport etc... (an exemple, dont go juge like crazy over a simple exemple) or against a barbarian? bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move etc. Against a paladin? Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot etc.
i gave some exemple, really really basic because of course there is more into it but how much it did happen? After that, people keep telling me! owmegawd! D2 pvp is sooooOOOooo awes0me! I played a ton of games all along the years that pvp was way more interesting seriously
1. I was not saying a ladder would correct the system. It's just a feature I personally would enjoy.
2. Look at my above response about the RM AH
3. You have your own opinion about D2 PvP. You obviously PvP'd against amateurs. I personally played a lot of SvB (on both sides) and a good barbarian could actually hold his own against a Sorc with teleport. People found ways to make things work even if the game was super unbalanced.
BARBvCASTER HERP
but yeah I think you are right people overcame adversities with different builds
And people were ABLE to do that because Blizz DIDN'T try to balance it.
The core of diablo 2 pvp was X person finding an ungodly build, then Y person trying to see what wacky build they could make to overcome X person, and then Z person finding something to beat Y but not lose instantly to X, and so on. It wasn't balance, it was all about finding weaknesses and exploiting them mercilessly.
But if Blizzard had put a ladder in, it wouldn't have been as fun. Why? Because it would've BECOME about balance, because people would bitch that they didn't have a chance to reach the top of the ladder while playing what they enjoyed.
Blizzard put arenas in to allow people to have fun with it. I'm sure people will create tournaments and stuff, but Blizzard is INTENTIONALLY leaving this up to the players so that the PLAYERS can do what they will with it and that way there's no need for Blizzard to regulate it.
Basically they're doing exactly what you're asking - leaving it open ended.
Diablo 2 PvP was open ended. Diablo 3 PvP is being forced casual.
RM AH requires development cycles to create. They are spending those cycles on a much smaller community (people who want to spend real money) rather than on a bigger community (people who PvP competitively).
I would like to know where you got the data to back up this claim. I for one played pvp in my 11 jears of diablo 2 for about 30 minutes, then I have had enough, I am not interested. And I am sure other also were not.
But trading is a big part of Diablo 2, in PvE and PvP. With the addition of the AH now, even if the currency behind it is real money, noone forces you to spend money to use the AH, so a lot more people will have the desire to use the AH than before, leading to a much larger group of people involved in this. And I for one think, this will outweigh the PvP community.
this community will be too big too have a really good pvp system in the form of rankings....this is mostly pvm game..
How can u have a pvp ranking in which u can only play with 4 against 4? So the number 1 rank and the number 2 rank. Have NEVER played against each other...and also never seen each other ingame....
pvp sucks in diablo....not because it isnt fun to play. But because pvp is only good with rankings. And imo its impossible to create this. PVP is for counter strike kinda games
EDIT: imo pvp = only about being the best. But how can u know are the best? By playing every single player MULTIPLE times...
Match making....ok I'm addict I'm playing 24/7 I play ONLY against noobs. I make 100% win....I get low rank gain cuz I play noobs. But I play so much. I will end on top....
Next day I play against a pro. I lose. Still on top list....
Wait are you actually mentally challenged or just pretending?
When was it ever stated that it will only be 4v4. What on earth makes you think the rank 1 and rank 2 teams will never face? CS is a FPS.... lol. "By playing every single player MULTIPLE times..." makes no sense
"ok I'm addict I'm playing 24/7 I play ONLY against noobs. I make 100% win....I get low rank gain cuz I play noobs. But I play so much. I will end on top....
Next day I play against a pro. I lose. Still on top list...."
IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT, it works like this:
You start as bad you beat bad opponents every time you beat a bad opponent you raise in MatchMakingRaiting (MMR)if you lose to someone worse than you you lose more points (win less points) if you win vs someone better than you you win more points (lose less points) eventually you rise to average player pool, and then to good, and then to elite.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
You're wrong, pvp was played competitively in D2, don't assume that just because you played casually it was the case for everyone. There was even a list of top duelers in diabloii, pkhq, and lurkers.
I will repeat myself, Its not up to Blizzard to decided if pvp will be competitive in D3, if the community mobilize, people will make it happen, just like in Dota and TF2 (banning items, op skills, and such)
I'm also getting sick of the words 'Competitive' and 'E-Sport' being used as if they're exactly the same.
QFT
Hmm, i don't remember seeing an official ranking system/ladder for pvp in Diablo 2, its been some years since i was actively pvping in HC but i cant remember anything about blizzard officially supporting anything besides casual pvping/duels.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
You're wrong, pvp was played competitively in D2, don't assume that just because you played casually it was the case for everyone. There was even a list of top duelers in diabloii, pkhq, and lurkers.
I will repeat myself, Its not up to Blizzard to decided if pvp will be competitive in D3, if the community mobilize, people will make it happen, just like in Dota and TF2 (banning items, op skills, and such)
I'm also getting sick of the words 'Competitive' and 'E-Sport' being used as if they're exactly the same.
QFT
Hmm, i don't remember seeing an official ranking system/ladder for pvp in Diablo 2, its been some years since i was actively pvping in HC but i cant remember anything about blizzard officially supporting anything besides casual pvping/duels.
If im wrong then im sorry but im getting old
I didn't said anything about official, the ranks/ladders were fanmade, by sites like this one.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
You're wrong, pvp was played competitively in D2, don't assume that just because you played casually it was the case for everyone. There was even a list of top duelers in diabloii, pkhq, and lurkers.
I will repeat myself, Its not up to Blizzard to decided if pvp will be competitive in D3, if the community mobilize, people will make it happen, just like in Dota and TF2 (banning items, op skills, and such)
I'm also getting sick of the words 'Competitive' and 'E-Sport' being used as if they're exactly the same.
QFT
Hmm, i don't remember seeing an official ranking system/ladder for pvp in Diablo 2, its been some years since i was actively pvping in HC but i cant remember anything about blizzard officially supporting anything besides casual pvping/duels.
If im wrong then im sorry but im getting old
I didn't said anything about official, the ranks/ladders were fanmade, by sites like this one.
I thought the discussion here was about Blizzards attitude toward implanting a more serious non casual pvp system? you quoted me way back about my post which was about blizzards involvement and support for pvp which was in diablo 2 casual.
I never said that players/fans didn't take it serious, but the point is that blizzard doesn't want people to be measured by a rank/ladder in pvp, and that is a good thing in my opinion since the pvp side is aimed at more casual players.
I thought the discussion here was about Blizzards attitude toward implanting a more serious non casual pvp system? you quoted me way back about my post which was about blizzards involvement and support for pvp which was in diablo 2 casual.
I never said that players/fans didn't take it serious, but the point is that blizzard doesn't want people to be measured by a rank/ladder in pvp, and that is a good thing in my opinion since the pvp side is aimed at more casual players.
My point was why is Blizzard spending resources on something like a RM AH which was a very niche community while outwardly expressing that they want to make sure D3 PvP is casual, even though competitive PvP in D2 was a much bigger niche.
I think 80% of the WoW players sell or buy gold regulary. You might have passed too much time away from online gaming communities - buyer and sellers are an rule, not an exception.
I thought the discussion here was about Blizzards attitude toward implanting a more serious non casual pvp system? you quoted me way back about my post which was about blizzards involvement and support for pvp which was in diablo 2 casual.
I never said that players/fans didn't take it serious, but the point is that blizzard doesn't want people to be measured by a rank/ladder in pvp, and that is a good thing in my opinion since the pvp side is aimed at more casual players.
My point was why is Blizzard spending resources on something like a RM AH which was a very niche community while outwardly expressing that they want to make sure D3 PvP is casual, even though competitive PvP in D2 was a much bigger niche.
lol niche community? Whatever man. Its like steriods in sports. People dont want to admit a real problem until it slaps them in the face. Using real money was rampant all through diablo. When I quit in 2004, my buddy had some crummy angelfire site or something making over 1k a week selling d2 items. This was just some 1 person adventure in the sea of thousands of sellers.
Maybe you personally didnt use real money, but I can almost bet alot of the complainers around here at one point or another used real money for something, they just wont ever admit it. Get over it, it was huge. Why else is/was there 8 million dupes and bots spamming sites? It wasnt because people werent spending money. It was because people were spending money, and alot of people doing it, which is why so many different stores cropped up.
Its here, its not a big deal, and it helps the majority of the playerbase out. Almost every single person that plays diablo 3 can now actually play the game for FREE. Yes, free. All that stuff you are finding is/was virtually worthless until now. Its not real. But you can now sell something that isnt real, get full price on it, and actually pay for 60 dollar diablo 3. You can even use items to pay for the internet connection your playing on. Who cant make 70 bucks in a month?
I dont see the problem honestly.
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What I don't understand is why they are making it clear how casual PvP will be. I'm sure everyone can agree that the PvP community was MUCH larger than the real money trading community in D2. Why does it feel like they are giving support to such a smaller community with the RM AH and really limiting what we will be able to do with PvP.
One of the reasons why D2 PvP was so good because there were no restrictions. Players made the rules, did what they wanted. It seems like Blizzard wants to tell us how to PvP and that they want to reinforce that you shouldn't play PvP in a competitive way.
On a personal note, the only type of reward I want for PvP is a ladder.
And I'd just like to say something about balance. Diablo 3 doesn't need to be balanced. Diablo 2 was not balanced whatsoever. The community will learn to play with what they are given. If the Demon Hunter is the most underpowered class in the game... Oh well, people will deal with it by having fair fights playing DH vs DH. Blizzard should let the community decide how they want to play, not the other way around.
What is so hard to understand about the casual pvp, pvp was casual in Diablo 2, this is Diablo 3 so they want to keep the game true to its roots, i don't see how the RM AH has anything to do with that to be honest.
And you cant really compared the money/resources/time investment it takes to add RM AH to a competitive pvp system that needs constant attention when it comes to nerfing and buffing all the builds/skills/runestone effects/items etc...
So lets say barbarian are overpowered and witch doctor totally suck (its my first char, cant wait) So in the ranking well see ton of barbarian, even 3v3 of barbarians because they will be OP. WHY?! because they dont balance the pvp. Second, if the deathmatch is the only sort of pvp, do we ladder the team or the single individual? by what stat? number of kills? why? a witchdoctor who helped you root the barbarian and feared the sorceress to give more time for you to pewpew wont go up in ranking? So that make a very shitty ladder with only the overpowered class at the top and the shitty one at the bottom, yay!
Diablo is really a bad game for pvp and even worst one for ladder. its not an e-sport, its not build for that, its made to be pve and it is said from the start. Its like youre friend say he will give you a toaster but in youre head you keep wishing for an oven, it wont happen... not right now, not at release.
and the RMT has totally nothing to do with pvp, not even the same team.
edit: im going to be flammed for that but i tought D2 pvp sucked. I did it only because i was tired of doing run and levels to friends. Sometime i got a good fight but mostly it was crybaby using portals and potion, running everywhere on the map playing hide and seek. Lemme remember it right with a sorc... hmm .. bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport,bone cage, teleport etc... (an exemple, dont go juge like crazy over a simple exemple) or against a barbarian? bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move,bone cage, leap and attack, move etc. Against a paladin? Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot,Bone cage, bone spear , bone spear , paladin pot etc.
i gave some exemple, really really basic because of course there is more into it but how much it did happen? After that, people keep telling me! owmegawd! D2 pvp is sooooOOOooo awes0me! I played a ton of games all along the years that pvp was way more interesting seriously
You have to take into account the game's time line because it is, after all, 11 years old. Back when the game wasn't dead (ps - I consider it dead now), the PvE community definitely overshadowed the PvP community. The reason why PvP is the big dog today is because there's nothing left to do or to discover in the PvE content. It's been digested and analyzed through-and-through. PvP is the only dynamic element the game has to offer at this point.
You have a very powerful point (to me personally) with this because it is the sole reason I stopped playing WoW. They changed [drastically] how my class played, and I liked the old technique more than the new one. It just wasn't for me. So the whole game just wasn't for me because what I enjoyed doing was removed (due to being too powerful).
i really do agree with youre first point here. That make alot of sense. I think the focus of diablo 3 for the first year will really be on pve, around 90 to 95% of the players will pve more then pvp. The more the people will grow weary of the content they done a thousand time , the more they will turn again to pvp, wich will have time to grow too.
this also mainly happens due to the intense gear grind- when things even out it's time to PvP
You're wrong, pvp was played competitively in D2, don't assume that just because you played casually it was the case for everyone. There was even a list of top duelers in diabloii, pkhq, and lurkers.
I will repeat myself, Its not up to Blizzard to decided if pvp will be competitive in D3, if the community mobilize, people will make it happen, just like in Dota and TF2 (banning items, op skills, and such)
QFT
Blizzard's priorities are in two places:
Making this game fun.
Making lots of money.
Diablo 2 PvP was open ended. Diablo 3 PvP is being forced casual.
RM AH requires development cycles to create. They are spending those cycles on a much smaller community (people who want to spend real money) rather than on a bigger community (people who PvP competitively). Also, managing a RM AH will be very resource intensive. Your dealing with peoples REAL MONEY. You need a lot of support. At the bare minimum, Blizzard would just need to keep PvP very open ended for it to be competitive. No balancing required (this is not an e-sport).
1. I was not saying a ladder would correct the system. It's just a feature I personally would enjoy.
2. Look at my above response about the RM AH
3. You have your own opinion about D2 PvP. You obviously PvP'd against amateurs. I personally played a lot of SvB (on both sides) and a good barbarian could actually hold his own against a Sorc with teleport. People found ways to make things work even if the game was super unbalanced.
but yeah I think you are right people overcame adversities with different builds
The core of diablo 2 pvp was X person finding an ungodly build, then Y person trying to see what wacky build they could make to overcome X person, and then Z person finding something to beat Y but not lose instantly to X, and so on. It wasn't balance, it was all about finding weaknesses and exploiting them mercilessly.
But if Blizzard had put a ladder in, it wouldn't have been as fun. Why? Because it would've BECOME about balance, because people would bitch that they didn't have a chance to reach the top of the ladder while playing what they enjoyed.
Blizzard put arenas in to allow people to have fun with it. I'm sure people will create tournaments and stuff, but Blizzard is INTENTIONALLY leaving this up to the players so that the PLAYERS can do what they will with it and that way there's no need for Blizzard to regulate it.
Basically they're doing exactly what you're asking - leaving it open ended.
Wait are you actually mentally challenged or just pretending?
When was it ever stated that it will only be 4v4. What on earth makes you think the rank 1 and rank 2 teams will never face? CS is a FPS.... lol. "By playing every single player MULTIPLE times..." makes no sense
"ok I'm addict I'm playing 24/7 I play ONLY against noobs. I make 100% win....I get low rank gain cuz I play noobs. But I play so much. I will end on top....
Next day I play against a pro. I lose. Still on top list...."
IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT, it works like this:
You start as bad you beat bad opponents every time you beat a bad opponent you raise in MatchMakingRaiting (MMR)if you lose to someone worse than you you lose more points (win less points) if you win vs someone better than you you win more points (lose less points) eventually you rise to average player pool, and then to good, and then to elite.
Hmm, i don't remember seeing an official ranking system/ladder for pvp in Diablo 2, its been some years since i was actively pvping in HC but i cant remember anything about blizzard officially supporting anything besides casual pvping/duels.
If im wrong then im sorry but im getting old
I didn't said anything about official, the ranks/ladders were fanmade, by sites like this one.
I never said that players/fans didn't take it serious, but the point is that blizzard doesn't want people to be measured by a rank/ladder in pvp, and that is a good thing in my opinion since the pvp side is aimed at more casual players.
My point was why is Blizzard spending resources on something like a RM AH which was a very niche community while outwardly expressing that they want to make sure D3 PvP is casual, even though competitive PvP in D2 was a much bigger niche.
I think 80% of the WoW players sell or buy gold regulary. You might have passed too much time away from online gaming communities - buyer and sellers are an rule, not an exception.
lol niche community? Whatever man. Its like steriods in sports. People dont want to admit a real problem until it slaps them in the face. Using real money was rampant all through diablo. When I quit in 2004, my buddy had some crummy angelfire site or something making over 1k a week selling d2 items. This was just some 1 person adventure in the sea of thousands of sellers.
Maybe you personally didnt use real money, but I can almost bet alot of the complainers around here at one point or another used real money for something, they just wont ever admit it. Get over it, it was huge. Why else is/was there 8 million dupes and bots spamming sites? It wasnt because people werent spending money. It was because people were spending money, and alot of people doing it, which is why so many different stores cropped up.
Its here, its not a big deal, and it helps the majority of the playerbase out. Almost every single person that plays diablo 3 can now actually play the game for FREE. Yes, free. All that stuff you are finding is/was virtually worthless until now. Its not real. But you can now sell something that isnt real, get full price on it, and actually pay for 60 dollar diablo 3. You can even use items to pay for the internet connection your playing on. Who cant make 70 bucks in a month?
I dont see the problem honestly.