I actually like the idea of the new skill system because it means I can actually use the low level skills without worrying about wasting points (or wasting my respecs later), however I am concerned as others have said that this might lead to "hot swapping" of skills based on dungeon/area/monster packs, which is an alien idea and really anti-diablo.
An easy way to avoid this pitfall to the new system is any of these restrictions:
1.) Skills can only be "swapped" (i.e. made as an active skill from the pool of available skills) upon leveling up OR;
2.) Once every X minutes (e.g. every 30 minutes) OR;
3.) Upon loading into a game, then every x minutes afterwards.
The system doesn't need to be too complicated, just have some restriction to allow players to change their skills without allowing them to hot-swap them as they approach different type of monsters or dungeon areas.
All in all I think it is great that I no longer need to hoard all my points so I can dump them into the high level skills. This, added with the cool down system means all builds should see a fun mixture of low level and high level skills without boring early game grinding.
I agree also I think there should be some sort of limits to swapping. More so in pvp but in pve I don't think people will do this often.
This is why I am also kind of liking the idea of Runes binding/attuning to the skill they are socketed in. Sure at first it seemed like, "oh that sucks now I can't reuse my uber rune in different skills", but I like the idea as Bashiok said, it provides a "soft" reward for investing in certain skills rather than swapping at a whim, since once you find good runes for your spells you will be less likely to want to swap them out. It also provides the "Diablo-ness" of random reward and mystery.
Where is the incentive to create a new character for a class you've already got up to level 60?
This is a good point actually. Remember in D2 you could make a fury barb... then replay the game again making a WW barb. Each had their own play styles.
The downside of the D2 approach was that you *had* to replay the entire game and grind to hell just to play a different style of the same character. I am not sure which approach I like better.
My thoughts for this was to make it so you could only switch out skills in town or something. This way you couldn't constantly be swapping them, but it was easy enough to take a trip to town to do it.
During the live cast today, I forget who mentioned it, but they said maybe make it cost gold to switch? I think this is an amazing idea actually. That way it's easy enough to switch, pay a little gold, but it's enough to deter people from switching skills every second, as well as creates another gold sink in the game. Even through all of the talk about crafting and artisans, I'm still concerned gold will eventually become too abundant. I would like to see as many gold sinks as possible, to keep it worth something.
I say they should create someone in town who effectively does respecs still. Don't make it so it costs more each time. Just a flat cost to clear your skills, maybe base it on level. 5xlevel in gold to wipe your skills or something. Gold sink and requires you to be out of combat, perfect.
My thoughts for this was to make it so you could only switch out skills in town or something. This way you couldn't constantly be swapping them, but it was easy enough to take a trip to town to do it.
During the live cast today, I forget who mentioned it, but they said maybe make it cost gold to switch? I think this is an amazing idea actually. That way it's easy enough to switch, pay a little gold, but it's enough to deter people from switching skills every second, as well as creates another gold sink in the game. Even through all of the talk about crafting and artisans, I'm still concerned gold will eventually become too abundant. I would like to see as many gold sinks as possible, to keep it worth something.
I say they should create someone in town who effectively does respecs still. Don't make it so it costs more each time. Just a flat cost to clear your skills, maybe base it on level. 5xlevel in gold to wipe your skills or something. Gold sink and requires you to be out of combat, perfect.
Honestly I thought these things went without saying regarding the new system. While it was never mentioned, I think the spirit of the change requires that it can be done only in town. It was mentioned that they are considering putting other requirements (like a gold cost) on it too, but I can't seem to find where.
Anyway, that's just me. It seems like common sense, but who knows.
I feel like their should be a specialization choice. Keep the new system, but add the ability to make one (or more) skills empowered by a specialization choice. Now the buff in the skill does not have to be over the top, but something large enough that can be a distinguishing factor when comparing two builds of the same class.
Also whatever skill(s) you specialize in, than you be restricted from swapping out.
Players will naturally prefer a play style or skill that will want to use more often than other, no matter how much the developers want us to constantly use them all.
I'm pretty sure I'm up to speed with all the changes/eliminations in the game systems but there are some wholes. As mentioned before, it's weird to make 1 barb and have no reason to make a 2nd (HC, male/female doesn't really count to me). I think that's a real problem. My question is, what permanent decisions do you even make for a character? Sex and HC/SC? :\
I'm pretty sure I'm up to speed with all the changes/eliminations in the game systems but there are some wholes. As mentioned before, it's weird to make 1 barb and have no reason to make a 2nd (HC, male/female doesn't really count to me). I think that's a real problem. My question is, what permanent decisions do you even make for a character? Sex and HC/SC? :\
Yeah, that's really a problem inherent to the game structure as a whole, not just the new skill system though. There really wasn't any compelling reason to re-make characters before with the ability to respec, either.
Ya, although it does give you a lot more freedom, it does kind of destroy any incentive to create another character of the same class, as well is disables a lot of strategy, being there is no such thing as a ""build"" any more.
on the other hand I like the new skill system better than 20 point skill cap at level 60 = 3 skills BS.
I think they need to find a happy medium, hopefully with some beta testing, and more thought, they will find one.
Games like Dragon Age even had locked in skills...unless you cheated and this caused re playability and changing one's char to be different through a subsequent play through (which took a lot longer than Diablo games.)
I do not know what the purpose of playing through the game again unless you are playing HC, which sounds like most people will be except to PVP.
Yeah, that's really a problem inherent to the game structure as a whole, not just the new skill system though. There really wasn't any compelling reason to re-make characters before with the ability to respec, either.
Exactly, the only difference between the current system and the previous one where you could respec was that with respeccing you got penalized, and swopping out freely has no penalties.
Come on, be honest, which option would you really prefer?
Where is the incentive to create a new character for a class you've already got up to level 60?
This is exactly the issue. With skill points, a class is devided into sub-classes, or say viable builds, e.g. for barb, we have ww barb, frenzy barb. Each of them require you to create a new charactor. With new patch released, blizzard can add new viable builds, which requires you to level up again.
Now there's only barb. Even with patch released, you still don't need to re-level.
This is exactly the issue. With skill points, a class is devided into sub-classes, or say viable builds, e.g. for barb, we have ww barb, frenzy barb. Each of them require you to create a new charactor. With new patch released, blizzard can add new viable builds, which requires you to level up again.
Now there's only barb. Even with patch released, you still don't need to re-level.
And with respeccing there would be an incentive?
Why start over when you can just pay some gold, and change your character to the new builds. That way you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of restarting, and get to try the builds with the character you've been playing. Respec was no different and Blizzard explained this in their reasons for taking away skill points.
This is exactly the issue. With skill points, a class is devided into sub-classes, or say viable builds, e.g. for barb, we have ww barb, frenzy barb. Each of them require you to create a new charactor. With new patch released, blizzard can add new viable builds, which requires you to level up again.
Now there's only barb. Even with patch released, you still don't need to re-level.
And with respeccing there would be an incentive?
Why start over when you can just pay some gold, and change your character to the new builds. That way you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of restarting, and get to try the builds with the character you've been playing. Respec was no different and Blizzard explained this in their reasons for taking away skill points.
The thing is, once you hit lv 60, your only interest is hell diablo. You'll never go to other place. Let's say blizzard release a new patch with one skill enhanced. In the past, you may want to re-level a new charactor for it. And that gives you 20 more hours game play from normal to hell.
Now, you switch to the new skill and go directly to hell diablo to see how it looks, that 2 hours game play.
The thing is, once you hit lv 60, your only interest is hell diablo. You'll never go to other place. Let's say blizzard release a new patch with one skill enhanced. In the past, you may want to re-level a new charactor for it. And that gives you 20 more hours game play from normal to hell.
Now, you switch to the new skill and go directly to hell diablo to see how it looks, that 2 hours game play.
No, that's how *you* choose to play. It's not something that was taken away from you. Just because there is a shorter path, doesn't mean you have to take it. If you want to restart every time your skills change then do so. But why complain that you now have the "option" to do something? Just don't do it. Why should the rest of us suffer for what you want?
Also on the point that the skill system supports "sub-classes". That wasn't granted by the distribution of skill that was granted by the skills you choose to dump your "extra points" into. With the new system you still have "sub-classes" because you still get others skills. It's just that those skills will be as strong as your character is, not how many points you choose to put (or not put) into them. The skills you choose for your character and choose to use define it's identity not how many points you have in those skills.
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An easy way to avoid this pitfall to the new system is any of these restrictions:
1.) Skills can only be "swapped" (i.e. made as an active skill from the pool of available skills) upon leveling up OR;
2.) Once every X minutes (e.g. every 30 minutes) OR;
3.) Upon loading into a game, then every x minutes afterwards.
The system doesn't need to be too complicated, just have some restriction to allow players to change their skills without allowing them to hot-swap them as they approach different type of monsters or dungeon areas.
All in all I think it is great that I no longer need to hoard all my points so I can dump them into the high level skills. This, added with the cool down system means all builds should see a fun mixture of low level and high level skills without boring early game grinding.
This is why I am also kind of liking the idea of Runes binding/attuning to the skill they are socketed in. Sure at first it seemed like, "oh that sucks now I can't reuse my uber rune in different skills", but I like the idea as Bashiok said, it provides a "soft" reward for investing in certain skills rather than swapping at a whim, since once you find good runes for your spells you will be less likely to want to swap them out. It also provides the "Diablo-ness" of random reward and mystery.
Where is the incentive to create a new character for a class you've already got up to level 60?
This is a good point actually. Remember in D2 you could make a fury barb... then replay the game again making a WW barb. Each had their own play styles.
The downside of the D2 approach was that you *had* to replay the entire game and grind to hell just to play a different style of the same character. I am not sure which approach I like better.
Playing through the game using a different build, like you would in Diablo 2? duh
But unless i die in HC i don't really see a reason to level the same character again, but there is always the choice doing so with a different build.
During the live cast today, I forget who mentioned it, but they said maybe make it cost gold to switch? I think this is an amazing idea actually. That way it's easy enough to switch, pay a little gold, but it's enough to deter people from switching skills every second, as well as creates another gold sink in the game. Even through all of the talk about crafting and artisans, I'm still concerned gold will eventually become too abundant. I would like to see as many gold sinks as possible, to keep it worth something.
I say they should create someone in town who effectively does respecs still. Don't make it so it costs more each time. Just a flat cost to clear your skills, maybe base it on level. 5xlevel in gold to wipe your skills or something. Gold sink and requires you to be out of combat, perfect.
Honestly I thought these things went without saying regarding the new system. While it was never mentioned, I think the spirit of the change requires that it can be done only in town. It was mentioned that they are considering putting other requirements (like a gold cost) on it too, but I can't seem to find where.
Anyway, that's just me. It seems like common sense, but who knows.
Also whatever skill(s) you specialize in, than you be restricted from swapping out.
Players will naturally prefer a play style or skill that will want to use more often than other, no matter how much the developers want us to constantly use them all.
http://huntersc.tv
Yeah, that's really a problem inherent to the game structure as a whole, not just the new skill system though. There really wasn't any compelling reason to re-make characters before with the ability to respec, either.
on the other hand I like the new skill system better than 20 point skill cap at level 60 = 3 skills BS.
I think they need to find a happy medium, hopefully with some beta testing, and more thought, they will find one.
I do not know what the purpose of playing through the game again unless you are playing HC, which sounds like most people will be except to PVP.
Exactly, the only difference between the current system and the previous one where you could respec was that with respeccing you got penalized, and swopping out freely has no penalties.
Come on, be honest, which option would you really prefer?
This is exactly the issue. With skill points, a class is devided into sub-classes, or say viable builds, e.g. for barb, we have ww barb, frenzy barb. Each of them require you to create a new charactor. With new patch released, blizzard can add new viable builds, which requires you to level up again.
Now there's only barb. Even with patch released, you still don't need to re-level.
Why start over when you can just pay some gold, and change your character to the new builds. That way you wouldn't have to go through the hassle of restarting, and get to try the builds with the character you've been playing. Respec was no different and Blizzard explained this in their reasons for taking away skill points.
The thing is, once you hit lv 60, your only interest is hell diablo. You'll never go to other place. Let's say blizzard release a new patch with one skill enhanced. In the past, you may want to re-level a new charactor for it. And that gives you 20 more hours game play from normal to hell.
Now, you switch to the new skill and go directly to hell diablo to see how it looks, that 2 hours game play.
No, that's how *you* choose to play. It's not something that was taken away from you. Just because there is a shorter path, doesn't mean you have to take it. If you want to restart every time your skills change then do so. But why complain that you now have the "option" to do something? Just don't do it. Why should the rest of us suffer for what you want?
Also on the point that the skill system supports "sub-classes". That wasn't granted by the distribution of skill that was granted by the skills you choose to dump your "extra points" into. With the new system you still have "sub-classes" because you still get others skills. It's just that those skills will be as strong as your character is, not how many points you choose to put (or not put) into them. The skills you choose for your character and choose to use define it's identity not how many points you have in those skills.