One of the reasons Blizzard gave to having a level cap of 60 instead of 99 was to make each level have a more significant and noticeable increase in power. I like the idea and was wondering if this has been noticeable in the beta. It may be that there is too little content and too few levels to fully judge the impact of the change but I was wondering if any beta users had feedback on how leveling feels so far in comparison to D2.
One of the reasons Blizzard gave to having a level cap of 60 instead of 99 was to make each level have a more significant and noticeable increase in power. I like the idea and was wondering if this has been noticeable in the beta. It may be that there is too little content and too few levels to fully judge the impact of the change but I was wondering if any beta users had feedback on how leveling feels so far in comparison to D2.
Thanks!
While comparing power between D2 and D3 at each level up to 13 is pointless and futile, the first 13 levels in D3 look way more interesting! Using 4 active skills that each can pack a mighty punch in their own way is a definite improvement over the D2 way of putting one point in each specific skill just to open up the skill tree, then dump all your points into the desired skill and spam that to no end.
One of the reasons Blizzard gave to having a level cap of 60 instead of 99 was to make each level have a more significant and noticeable increase in power. I like the idea and was wondering if this has been noticeable in the beta. It may be that there is too little content and too few levels to fully judge the impact of the change but I was wondering if any beta users had feedback on how leveling feels so far in comparison to D2.
Thanks!
unfortunately after lvl 30 levels dont mean anything at all besides being able to wear higher lvl restricted gear. once you reach 30 you have unlocked all 6 active skill slots, all 3 passive skill slots, and every single skill each class has. and by then you'll have found all the rune types you want, only thing left to do is find higher levels of the same runes and experiment with builds i suppose.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
How do you know you gonna find all runes on level 30? I really doubt that actually.
you find runes starting in Act 2 and on, so you have like 15 levels of searching. so finding all 5 types of runes isnt going to take long considering if they were THAT rare then lvl 1 runes would be utterly pointless. and its lvl 1.. obviously going to be easy to find the lowest level of rune lol
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
One of the reasons Blizzard gave to having a level cap of 60 instead of 99 was to make each level have a more significant and noticeable increase in power. I like the idea and was wondering if this has been noticeable in the beta. It may be that there is too little content and too few levels to fully judge the impact of the change but I was wondering if any beta users had feedback on how leveling feels so far in comparison to D2.
Thanks!
While comparing power between D2 and D3 at each level up to 13 is pointless and futile, the first 13 levels in D3 look way more interesting! Using 4 active skills that each can pack a mighty punch in their own way is a definite improvement over the D2 way of putting one point in each specific skill just to open up the skill tree, then dump all your points into the desired skill and spam that to no end.
Thanks Puttah. What you said about the skills does make sense. In D2 many times the only benefit to leveling was to get further down the tree to the skill I really wanted. Not really that exciting nor was their much perceived increase in power. Also, I'm not looking to quantitatively compare power at each level between the games. Only the feeling or noticeable impact of gaining a level. Gaining a level elicits an emotional response. It seems effort has been made to make that response bigger than in D2 and I'm wonder if that's perceived in what's available so far.
How do you know you gonna find all runes on level 30? I really doubt that actually.
you find runes starting in Act 2 and on, so you have like 15 levels of searching. so finding all 5 types of runes isnt going to take long considering if they were THAT rare then lvl 1 runes would be utterly pointless. and its lvl 1.. obviously going to be easy to find the lowest level of rune lol
You can find runes from Act2, but that does not mean there will be raining runes. I also think level 1 runes won't be uncommon because that's core system of the game and blizzard wants players to have fun, but you can never know for sure.
finding just one of each type of only 5 types in 15 full levels isnt "raining" lol.. if anything you should be able to find tons of all 5 in 15 levels of going through the game. but ya sure, if u had the worst luck in the world maybe you wouldnt.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
One of the reasons Blizzard gave to having a level cap of 60 instead of 99 was to make each level have a more significant and noticeable increase in power. I like the idea and was wondering if this has been noticeable in the beta. It may be that there is too little content and too few levels to fully judge the impact of the change but I was wondering if any beta users had feedback on how leveling feels so far in comparison to D2.
Thanks!
unfortunately after lvl 30 levels dont mean anything at all besides being able to wear higher lvl restricted gear. once you reach 30 you have unlocked all 6 active skill slots, all 3 passive skill slots, and every single skill each class has. and by then you'll have found all the rune types you want, only thing left to do is find higher levels of the same runes and experiment with builds i suppose.
So yeah. With all skills based on weapon damage there is not impact on them with each level. I forgot about this. So what am I missing. Disregarding equipment is the only thing you get from 30-60 some additional auto assigned stats? How is that going to make each level feel awesome? If I don't have better equipment to wear or better runes to use will I notice anything?
I assumed the cap was level 60 due to the fact that there will be two expansions, each granting another 20 levels. Didn't think there was any reasoning beyond that.
i find the lvl 60 cap great and bearable.. personally i dont want to grind till 99, i want to feel like i remotely do more damage or am more viable even gaining one more level, as for the runes.. sure you start finding them during act 2 but you dont know where, how, when, what rune, or what level, they have basically scrapped every idea for rune system.. soo yea, i think there is a lot more to look forward to in d3 than d2. NOT to mention inferno, where no one knows what will happen, so many can hate the lvl 60 cap but id like to be lvl 60 and doing new stuff rather than being 99 and doing the same old stuff i could do at 80
Keep in mind like I posted, a lot has changed with the rune system from the point..so who knows what the drop rate is like now... (though from the basic logic of it all, it seems like they would keep it the same.) But I think they wanted them to drop so much, due to how they locked before?
It doesn't seem like the level 1 runes are going to give you a huge damage boost, they seem more like the gateway into the skill mechanics. If that's the case, there's no reason for them not to have level 1 runes dropping somewhat regularly.
As far as whether you feel the levels, yeah you do feel it. Although a lot of that is because you're gearing up as you go. Your basic stats barely move up when you level, on a naked wizard, it bumps the DPS up from 2.80 (at level 1) to 4.09 (at level 13). Not a huge difference. But geared, the damage difference can be quite a bit more. I threw the same crummy weapon and orb onto the two of them and it was 27.72 and 40.29 DPS with no other gear adding attack or precision. If you actually throw some gear with level requirements onto the level 13 it keeps going up.
Keep in mind like I posted, a lot has changed with the rune system from the point..so who knows what the drop rate is like now... (though from the basic logic of it all, it seems like they would keep it the same.) But I think they wanted them to drop so much, due to how they locked before?
Hell, the rune system has changed so much to the point they don't even know what they are doing with it at this point lol.
It doesn't seem like the level 1 runes are going to give you a huge damage boost, they seem more like the gateway into the skill mechanics. If that's the case, there's no reason for them not to have level 1 runes dropping somewhat regularly.
As far as whether you feel the levels, yeah you do feel it. Although a lot of that is because you're gearing up as you go. Your basic stats barely move up when you level, on a naked wizard, it bumps the DPS up from 2.80 (at level 1) to 4.09 (at level 13). Not a huge difference. But geared, the damage difference can be quite a bit more. I threw the same crummy weapon and orb onto the two of them and it was 27.72 and 40.29 DPS with no other gear adding attack or precision. If you actually throw some gear with level requirements onto the level 13 it keeps going up.
Thank you! I posted this question on the diablo forums as well and this is by far the closest I've gotten to an actual answer to my question.
To me that seems like a significant improvement and as you state with decent gear the difference would be much greater . It seems to me that this would make each level very significant from 30 - 60 as your going to have much better gear which is going to result in larger increases in DPS. Hopefully that makes the increase in power at each level more noticeable compared to what skill / stat points produced in D2. By shrinking the Cap to 60 this should be very viable.
I know items will always produce the greatest character improvement but I'm glad to find there should be a significant bump from leveling as well. I think that makes finding great gear even more exciting as well since they will scale with the stat point increase after each level. Once level 60 is reached everyone will be on par with stat points and since they are auto assigned really they become a mute point. Then all improvement is based on items but really that's how D2 end game is as well and 30 levels of bumps should be fun to get in the meantime. I'd rather get 60 levels that have meaningful improvements to the character than 99 where the majority of them don't produce noticeable improvements. That 80th skill point really didn't make my character feel that much better anyway and I think achievments will be more fun than grinding out 99 levels.
While you do have all skills unlocked at level 30 (halfway to level 60), keep in mind in Diablo 2 you had the highest skills unlocked at 30, but you were less than 1/3 of the way to 99. Stats didn't mean anything more in D2 than they do in D3, so the autostat is negligible. In both cases you should be done with normal by/around level 30.
Well if their game guide holds true, you may be able to get each rune by level 30, but you'll have to get to Inferno mode to get the highest ranking rune. Which in turn would put you at 60 in order to use those ranked runestones...
Actually level significance is even lower than in D2 from what I've seen. You got auto stats, no skill points. So you are improving by selecting newly available skills (until level 30) and by getting better gear.
Actually, by level 30 in Diablo 2, you'll have enough skill point to have purchased all the skill you will be needing for your build, and you'll have spent enough points in strength to wear the exact armor you need. Only thing you have to after level 30 is pump your vitality for health and place points into the 3 or 4 skills you'll be using to make them stronger.
I think I prefer D3's rune and itemization system.
Call me insane but I think leveling in D3 has veyr little emotional impact as soon as you get all skills you need.
In the beta when I reach level 10 with barbarian i stop to even looking at my exp bar. I already have the abilities I like most (Ground Stomp, Cleave, Hammer of the Ancients and Ruthless). Leveling and getting a ability you're not fan of is pointless.
I expect leveling beyond 30 will have close to none emotional impact. I think progressing in the game (finishing acts and difficulties, getting new runes, earning new achievements) plays a bigger role in the game then leveling your character. To not be unfair, leveling in order to use an stronger item is somewhat impactful, but only if you already have the item or an recipe.
Getting a new ability is really fun, specially because the ability is allways good enough to be used at your level. However leveling and getting a ability you won't use is pointless and impactless. So leveling at the initials level in D3 might be better then in D2, but leveling from 10~13 with my barbarian already showed me that beyond certain point leveling will be really boring.
I expect leveling beyond 30 will have close to none emotional impact. I think progressing in the game (finishing acts and difficulties, getting new runes, earning new achievements) plays a bigger role in the game then leveling your character. To not be unfair, leveling in order to use an stronger item is somewhat impactful, but only if you already have the item or an recipe.
Yeah, I think this game will be all about gear. You made a good point about the crafting. I really hope you can craft items ahead of your level, that way you will be able to see what awaits you, and make it more exciting to level up. Likewise, I hope runes, gems and all items have a chance to drop a bit higher level as well. That way you will at least have incentives to make you look forward to leveling up.
Also, I think leveling alts will be a blast because of this. Your main will craft items and reserve runes, while your alts will reap the rewards.
I have no doubt D3's customization system is much better and I really like it, but you don't really feel improvement with each level apart from unlocking higher items, so it's no longer true that "every level feels very important" as Jay Wilson said long time ago. But I personally am fine with that.
I really hope they add some more customization options in the expansions. I felt quite disappointed when they announced the talisman was scraped for the time being. It would make a great addition in a future update. But I hope they add more items to socket as well, four types of gems feel so few.
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Thanks!
unfortunately after lvl 30 levels dont mean anything at all besides being able to wear higher lvl restricted gear. once you reach 30 you have unlocked all 6 active skill slots, all 3 passive skill slots, and every single skill each class has. and by then you'll have found all the rune types you want, only thing left to do is find higher levels of the same runes and experiment with builds i suppose.
you find runes starting in Act 2 and on, so you have like 15 levels of searching. so finding all 5 types of runes isnt going to take long considering if they were THAT rare then lvl 1 runes would be utterly pointless. and its lvl 1.. obviously going to be easy to find the lowest level of rune lol
Thanks Puttah. What you said about the skills does make sense. In D2 many times the only benefit to leveling was to get further down the tree to the skill I really wanted. Not really that exciting nor was their much perceived increase in power. Also, I'm not looking to quantitatively compare power at each level between the games. Only the feeling or noticeable impact of gaining a level. Gaining a level elicits an emotional response. It seems effort has been made to make that response bigger than in D2 and I'm wonder if that's perceived in what's available so far.
finding just one of each type of only 5 types in 15 full levels isnt "raining" lol.. if anything you should be able to find tons of all 5 in 15 levels of going through the game. but ya sure, if u had the worst luck in the world maybe you wouldnt.
So yeah. With all skills based on weapon damage there is not impact on them with each level. I forgot about this. So what am I missing. Disregarding equipment is the only thing you get from 30-60 some additional auto assigned stats? How is that going to make each level feel awesome? If I don't have better equipment to wear or better runes to use will I notice anything?
(but this was before one of the many runesystem changes)
As far as whether you feel the levels, yeah you do feel it. Although a lot of that is because you're gearing up as you go. Your basic stats barely move up when you level, on a naked wizard, it bumps the DPS up from 2.80 (at level 1) to 4.09 (at level 13). Not a huge difference. But geared, the damage difference can be quite a bit more. I threw the same crummy weapon and orb onto the two of them and it was 27.72 and 40.29 DPS with no other gear adding attack or precision. If you actually throw some gear with level requirements onto the level 13 it keeps going up.
Hell, the rune system has changed so much to the point they don't even know what they are doing with it at this point lol.
Thank you! I posted this question on the diablo forums as well and this is by far the closest I've gotten to an actual answer to my question.
To me that seems like a significant improvement and as you state with decent gear the difference would be much greater . It seems to me that this would make each level very significant from 30 - 60 as your going to have much better gear which is going to result in larger increases in DPS. Hopefully that makes the increase in power at each level more noticeable compared to what skill / stat points produced in D2. By shrinking the Cap to 60 this should be very viable.
I know items will always produce the greatest character improvement but I'm glad to find there should be a significant bump from leveling as well. I think that makes finding great gear even more exciting as well since they will scale with the stat point increase after each level. Once level 60 is reached everyone will be on par with stat points and since they are auto assigned really they become a mute point. Then all improvement is based on items but really that's how D2 end game is as well and 30 levels of bumps should be fun to get in the meantime. I'd rather get 60 levels that have meaningful improvements to the character than 99 where the majority of them don't produce noticeable improvements. That 80th skill point really didn't make my character feel that much better anyway and I think achievments will be more fun than grinding out 99 levels.
Thanks again. I appreciate the info.
I think I prefer D3's rune and itemization system.
In the beta when I reach level 10 with barbarian i stop to even looking at my exp bar. I already have the abilities I like most (Ground Stomp, Cleave, Hammer of the Ancients and Ruthless). Leveling and getting a ability you're not fan of is pointless.
I expect leveling beyond 30 will have close to none emotional impact. I think progressing in the game (finishing acts and difficulties, getting new runes, earning new achievements) plays a bigger role in the game then leveling your character. To not be unfair, leveling in order to use an stronger item is somewhat impactful, but only if you already have the item or an recipe.
Getting a new ability is really fun, specially because the ability is allways good enough to be used at your level. However leveling and getting a ability you won't use is pointless and impactless. So leveling at the initials level in D3 might be better then in D2, but leveling from 10~13 with my barbarian already showed me that beyond certain point leveling will be really boring.
Also, I think leveling alts will be a blast because of this. Your main will craft items and reserve runes, while your alts will reap the rewards.